Photographing other people's kids?

Not having any of my own, I don't really have much opportunity to photograph kids. Today I had a good opportunity and got (what I think) are some good kid shots. My question concerns posting pictures of other peoples kids online? These are kids from a local school, and I work with one of the parents, but I know nothing about the other kids. I'm going to fix up the pictures and print them out. I also spoke with one of the teachers (hoping to preemptively fend off any worries she might have had about me) and she said she'd like copies of the pictures if I get any good ones (it was an event that they'd like pictures of). But if I wanted to post these online, perhaps to share with people in this forum, what is the proper thing to do.

Of course, I could track down the parents and ask them for permission and if they say yes I'm in the clear. However, if they say no I definitely think it would be wrong to then post them online. On the other hand, I do feel as if it is within my rights to share these online without having to request permission (they were taken in a public place). However, I do understand parents sensitivity in these (sick and twisted) days about having their children online, even if the shots are non suggestive and don't provide any other identifying info.

So what is a photographer to do?

--
Ron Frazier
http://www.pbase.com/ldkronos

My personal opinion is that you should ask permission first. As you said, you're probably okay legally to post them, but as a parent I probably wouldn't want photos of my kids posted online unless I knew about it first. It's a tough one since you'd like to share the photos, but asking first is probably the most respectful thing to do.

Take care,
Travis

I do have some photos of children posted online for which I do not have the parent's permission. I'd like to get it when I can. I have one photo of twin sisters on bicycles and I asked them for permission. Was that enough? Maybe not. But for me it's a bit in a gray area. It is now illegal in the UK to take photos of children without permission of parents. Can you imagine what it's like to try to take a group photo of a class, campgroups, etc?

My ex girlfriend would not let me post photos of her very photogenic daughter. I have one from the back and another one with flower blocking her face that she approved. Later she let an organization use her daughter's image on their website.

I would be interested in parents' responses to this question. As far as I know, it is not illegal in the US. Just an ethical issue.

ldkronos said:

Not having any of my own, I don't really have much opportunity to
photograph kids. Today I had a good opportunity and got (what I
think) are some good kid shots. My question concerns posting
pictures of other peoples kids online? These are kids from a local
school, and I work with one of the parents, but I know nothing
about the other kids. I'm going to fix up the pictures and print
them out. I also spoke with one of the teachers (hoping to
preemptively fend off any worries she might have had about me) and
she said she'd like copies of the pictures if I get any good ones
(it was an event that they'd like pictures of). But if I wanted to
post these online, perhaps to share with people in this forum, what
is the proper thing to do.

Of course, I could track down the parents and ask them for
permission and if they say yes I'm in the clear. However, if they
say no I definitely think it would be wrong to then post them
online. On the other hand, I do feel as if it is within my rights
to share these online without having to request permission (they
were taken in a public place). However, I do understand parents
sensitivity in these (sick and twisted) days about having their
children online, even if the shots are non suggestive and don't
provide any other identifying info.

So what is a photographer to do?

--
Ron Frazier
http://www.pbase.com/ldkronos

Click to expand...

--
http://www.pbase.com/mreib
Canon Gee2 and Sfour_ten

Mark77 said:

It is now illegal in the UK to take photos of children
without permission of parents.

Click to expand...

Eeek! It is? I did that the other month and posted the other day :-S The parents were around and the cat and dog were the primary subjects - they never said a thing against it.....
Oh crud! I'm a fugitive! If I don't post for a while you'll know why.
Hasty exit
--
Ricardo
http://photobucket.com/albums/v389/notornis/

Mark77 said:

My ex girlfriend would not let me post photos of her
very photogenic daughter.

Click to expand...

And to me, that's the problem with asking. I feel as though the parents who don't know me have (in their mind) nothing to gain by putting their kids pictures online, but potentially everything to lose. Seems as though the default answer should be "NO". Should I bribe them ("a few free 4x6 prints if you'll let me do it")?

--
Ron Frazier
http://www.pbase.com/ldkronos

I am not sure about the same thing. I did post some kids candid shots that I got at some wierd car show.. I am thinking that if the parents ever write to me and ask me to remove the photos from there I will just do what they ask. I think since the photos are not in bad taste, it is ok to post them.

one of my favorite....because of her face with that expression of disguss as she was looking at the wierd car:



but I was not so sure about posting that one...where the little boy had an accident (probably fell) and was bleeding from his nose..see the mother's worried face? I am not sure about it..what do you think? The thing is that she saw me take that photo, I was right beside them, and she did not complain.

I wonder..how far can we go with candid portraits?

ldkronos said:

Not having any of my own, I don't really have much opportunity to
photograph kids. Today I had a good opportunity and got (what I
think) are some good kid shots. My question concerns posting
pictures of other peoples kids online? These are kids from a local
school, and I work with one of the parents, but I know nothing
about the other kids. I'm going to fix up the pictures and print
them out. I also spoke with one of the teachers (hoping to
preemptively fend off any worries she might have had about me) and
she said she'd like copies of the pictures if I get any good ones
(it was an event that they'd like pictures of). But if I wanted to
post these online, perhaps to share with people in this forum, what
is the proper thing to do.

Of course, I could track down the parents and ask them for
permission and if they say yes I'm in the clear. However, if they
say no I definitely think it would be wrong to then post them
online. On the other hand, I do feel as if it is within my rights
to share these online without having to request permission (they
were taken in a public place). However, I do understand parents
sensitivity in these (sick and twisted) days about having their
children online, even if the shots are non suggestive and don't
provide any other identifying info.

So what is a photographer to do?

--
Ron Frazier
http://www.pbase.com/ldkronos

Click to expand...

--
Minë Corma hostië të ilyë ar mordossë nutië të
Mornórëo Nóressë yassë i Fuini caitar.
Un thoron arart’a s’un hith mal’kemen ioke.
Saurulmaiel

Mark77 said:

I do have some photos of children posted online for which I do not
have the parent's permission. I'd like to get it when I can. I have
one photo of twin sisters on bicycles and I asked them for
permission. Was that enough? Maybe not. But for me it's a bit in a
gray area. It is now illegal in the UK to take photos of children
without permission of parents.

Click to expand...

oh my..is it really? where will candid / street photography go? I am glad that this is still legal in the USA.

Can you imagine what it's like to

Mark77 said:

try to take a group photo of a class, campgroups, etc?

Click to expand...

oh freaking..this is so true

Mark77 said:

My ex girlfriend would not let me post photos of her very
photogenic daughter. I have one from the back and another one with
flower blocking her face that she approved. Later she let an
organization use her daughter's image on their website.

I would be interested in parents' responses to this question. As
far as I know, it is not illegal in the US. Just an ethical issue.

ldkronos said:

Not having any of my own, I don't really have much opportunity to
photograph kids. Today I had a good opportunity and got (what I
think) are some good kid shots. My question concerns posting
pictures of other peoples kids online? These are kids from a local
school, and I work with one of the parents, but I know nothing
about the other kids. I'm going to fix up the pictures and print
them out. I also spoke with one of the teachers (hoping to
preemptively fend off any worries she might have had about me) and
she said she'd like copies of the pictures if I get any good ones
(it was an event that they'd like pictures of). But if I wanted to
post these online, perhaps to share with people in this forum, what
is the proper thing to do.

Of course, I could track down the parents and ask them for
permission and if they say yes I'm in the clear. However, if they
say no I definitely think it would be wrong to then post them
online. On the other hand, I do feel as if it is within my rights
to share these online without having to request permission (they
were taken in a public place). However, I do understand parents
sensitivity in these (sick and twisted) days about having their
children online, even if the shots are non suggestive and don't
provide any other identifying info.

So what is a photographer to do?

--
Ron Frazier
http://www.pbase.com/ldkronos

Click to expand...

--
http://www.pbase.com/mreib
Canon Gee2 and Sfour_ten

Click to expand...

--
Minë Corma hostië të ilyë ar mordossë nutië të
Mornórëo Nóressë yassë i Fuini caitar.
Un thoron arart’a s’un hith mal’kemen ioke.
Saurulmaiel

Daniella,

Thanks for your comments. I'm glad you kinda feel the same way. If you want to go the route of posting first, then I agree that removing if/when asked is the ethical thing to do.

Daniella68313 said:

but I was not so sure about posting that one...where the little boy
had an accident (probably fell) and was bleeding from his nose..see
the mother's worried face? I am not sure about it..what do you
think?

Click to expand...

I kind of know how you feel. It captures the kid not in his best moment. I've also got a similar situation among my pics today. It was cold outside, and one of the kids had a snotty nose. It made for a funny (if not somewhat gross) picture. Again, it's not something a proud parent would hang on a wall, and might not want online either. It could be embarrassing to the kid (in the slim chance that one of his friends sees it).

Daniella68313 said:

I wonder..how far can we go with candid portraits?

Click to expand...

I'd love to know. I woulnd't hesitate if the person were a teen or adult. It's just the kids that concern me.

--
Ron Frazier
http://www.pbase.com/ldkronos

ldkronos said:

ldkronos said:

I wonder..how far can we go with candid portraits?

Click to expand...

I'd love to know. I woulnd't hesitate if the person were a teen or
adult. It's just the kids that concern me.

Click to expand...

As far as I know though, it is not illegal in the USA to take photos of people and kids in public places. My take on it is if they see you and ask you not to take it then you should respect their wish, but if they see you take the photo and don't say anything or don't seem upset, then it is fine to do so. Like for this photo of the kid with the bleeding nose, I thought the whole situation was very touching. She did saw me and did not object, although I felt ambarassed to take it. I actualy fell like a gready journalist on a mission to capture a battle or something

ldkronos said:

--
Ron Frazier
http://www.pbase.com/ldkronos

Click to expand...

--
Minë Corma hostië të ilyë ar mordossë nutië të
Mornórëo Nóressë yassë i Fuini caitar.
Un thoron arart’a s’un hith mal’kemen ioke.
Saurulmaiel

If they were, then the issue is complicated by the fact that as a parent, you have expectations of reasonable privacy for your children. Personally, if you think the parents might say no, then I think (as a parent) that you should ask, and abide by their decision. One way to approach it would be to prepare a model release stating explicitly what you want to do with the pictures, and offer an 8x10 of the shot as payment. That would make you seem more professional and might make them inclined to agree.
With kids, I think you would be better safe than sorry.
--
Come and look at my ego site (I mean website)
http://www.outnumbered.ca

My two cents.
Speaking as a father let me just say this.

Unfortunatly we live in a world with some very very sick people. As parents we have enough to worry about with our kids these days and adding a stranger photographing our kids is just to much. We teach our children the dangers of strangers all the time, the being fear based on not knowing what a stranger 'could' do. I see it no different with photography, how do I know that this person who took a cute picture of my kid and offered me some free 4x6's isn't going to post their picture and the location taken on some sick website, or maybe it will be put on a nice website but with image manipulation being as it is who knows where you childs face may end up. I think it's better safe than sorry. If you can't get the parents permission don't do it. Don't even take the photo. I would have no issues breaking the camera of some nosy photographer sneaking pictures of my kids. We have a right to protect our children!

Many times I see pictures of random children posted on this forum and I wonder if the photographer/poster has even thought of the potential outcomes of doing.
Not just as parents but as people we need to protect our children.

I know it's a blunt approach but isn't it better to be safe than sorry.

Craig

Mark77 said:

Mark77 said:

It is now illegal in the UK to take photos of children without permission
of parents

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

The UK has thousands of covert video cameras all over the place... is it illegal for them to capture images of children without the parents permission as well? Sounds like that law is subject to challenge then...

FWIW, posing for a photographer can be construed as giving permission - However, children can't legally give permission to anyone so that can't apply to kids.

Finallly, you might have permission to take the picture but getting permission to use the photos is another matter. If your use is "editorial" you're probably ok. If your use is "commercial" then you need a model release.

dlesko

Mark77 said:

My ex girlfriend would not let me post photos of her very
photogenic daughter. I have one from the back and another one with
flower blocking her face that she approved. Later she let an
organization use her daughter's image on their website.

I would be interested in parents' responses to this question. As
far as I know, it is not illegal in the US. Just an ethical issue.

ldkronos said:

Not having any of my own, I don't really have much opportunity to
photograph kids. Today I had a good opportunity and got (what I
think) are some good kid shots. My question concerns posting
pictures of other peoples kids online? These are kids from a local
school, and I work with one of the parents, but I know nothing
about the other kids. I'm going to fix up the pictures and print
them out. I also spoke with one of the teachers (hoping to
preemptively fend off any worries she might have had about me) and
she said she'd like copies of the pictures if I get any good ones
(it was an event that they'd like pictures of). But if I wanted to
post these online, perhaps to share with people in this forum, what
is the proper thing to do.

Of course, I could track down the parents and ask them for
permission and if they say yes I'm in the clear. However, if they
say no I definitely think it would be wrong to then post them
online. On the other hand, I do feel as if it is within my rights
to share these online without having to request permission (they
were taken in a public place). However, I do understand parents
sensitivity in these (sick and twisted) days about having their
children online, even if the shots are non suggestive and don't
provide any other identifying info.

So what is a photographer to do?

--
Ron Frazier
http://www.pbase.com/ldkronos

Click to expand...

--
http://www.pbase.com/mreib
Canon Gee2 and Sfour_ten

Click to expand...

Craig said:

My two cents.
Speaking as a father let me just say this.
Unfortunatly we live in a world with some very very sick people. As
parents we have enough to worry about with our kids these days and
adding a stranger photographing our kids is just to much. We teach
our children the dangers of strangers all the time, the being fear
based on not knowing what a stranger 'could' do. I see it no
different with photography, how do I know that this person who took
a cute picture of my kid and offered me some free 4x6's isn't going
to post their picture and the location taken on some sick website,

Click to expand...

wow, that's called paranoia...sick like what? what will a sick site do with a kid that is in a decent photo? that would probably bore them to death. I do not think they are aimed at this type of photos.

Craig236938 said:

or maybe it will be put on a nice website but with image
manipulation being as it is who knows where you childs face may end
up. I think it's better safe than sorry.

Click to expand...

now that's really paranoia.

If you can't get the

Craig236938 said:

parents permission don't do it. Don't even take the photo. I would
have no issues breaking the camera of some nosy photographer
sneaking pictures of my kids.

Click to expand...

now that's totaly rude and completely illegal and stupid..you would go in jail.

We have a right to protect our

Craig236938 said:

children!

Click to expand...

ok, just keep your children at home and never let them out..you'll live longer.

Craig236938 said:

Many times I see pictures of random children posted on this forum
and I wonder if the photographer/poster has even thought of the
potential outcomes of doing.

Click to expand...

ad misericordium...

Craig236938 said:

Not just as parents but as people we need to protect our children.

Click to expand...

super ad misericordium..

Craig236938 said:

I know it's a blunt approach but isn't it better to be safe than
sorry.

Click to expand...

sure...don't ever go outside your home and nothing bad will happen..

Craig236938 said:

Craig

Click to expand...

--
Minë Corma hostië të ilyë ar mordossë nutië të
Mornórëo Nóressë yassë i Fuini caitar.
Un thoron arart’a s’un hith mal’kemen ioke.
Saurulmaiel

dLESKO said:

Finallly, you might have permission to take the picture but getting
permission to use the photos is another matter. If your use is
"editorial" you're probably ok. If your use is "commercial" then
you need a model release.

Click to expand...

yes that is about right in the USA too. what about taking photos at Disney land? ain,t that impossible not to get some kids in the photo? surely you must have some tourist attraction in the UK where kids are numerous..what do you do? ask them to get out of the way so you can take a photo? this is so dumb.

dLESKO said:

dlesko

Mark77 said:

My ex girlfriend would not let me post photos of her very
photogenic daughter. I have one from the back and another one with
flower blocking her face that she approved. Later she let an
organization use her daughter's image on their website.

I would be interested in parents' responses to this question. As
far as I know, it is not illegal in the US. Just an ethical issue.

ldkronos said:

Not having any of my own, I don't really have much opportunity to
photograph kids. Today I had a good opportunity and got (what I
think) are some good kid shots. My question concerns posting
pictures of other peoples kids online? These are kids from a local
school, and I work with one of the parents, but I know nothing
about the other kids. I'm going to fix up the pictures and print
them out. I also spoke with one of the teachers (hoping to
preemptively fend off any worries she might have had about me) and
she said she'd like copies of the pictures if I get any good ones
(it was an event that they'd like pictures of). But if I wanted to
post these online, perhaps to share with people in this forum, what
is the proper thing to do.

Of course, I could track down the parents and ask them for
permission and if they say yes I'm in the clear. However, if they
say no I definitely think it would be wrong to then post them
online. On the other hand, I do feel as if it is within my rights
to share these online without having to request permission (they
were taken in a public place). However, I do understand parents
sensitivity in these (sick and twisted) days about having their
children online, even if the shots are non suggestive and don't
provide any other identifying info.

So what is a photographer to do?

--
Ron Frazier
http://www.pbase.com/ldkronos

Click to expand...

--
http://www.pbase.com/mreib
Canon Gee2 and Sfour_ten

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

--
Minë Corma hostië të ilyë ar mordossë nutië të
Mornórëo Nóressë yassë i Fuini caitar.
Un thoron arart’a s’un hith mal’kemen ioke.
Saurulmaiel

Craig does have a point. Some people might get off on children playing, maybe they like the innocence of it, it gets them tingling. I don't know as I'm not like that.

But if a good candid photo opportunity did arise I think I'd weigh the odds and decide on taking the pic if good enough. Then I'd ask if I could keep it and maybe offer prints. Usually I keep my camera away. Paranoia.

You can't keep your kids hidden away. Besides, oftentimes it's a family member who is the abuser.
--
Ricardo
http://photobucket.com/albums/v389/notornis/

You are within your rights to take photos in public places. You don't need permission unless you use the images commercially.

As long as there is not identifying info (names on a shirt) I wouldn't worry about it. If a parent sees the photo and is concerned THEN take THAT photo down.

Lee

ldkronos said:

So what is a photographer to do?

Click to expand...

... "Use comon sense, respect others' privacy and respect yourself" - EVEN in a public place. Unlike some "photographer" here, I just don't think I have the rights to take pics of whoever i want (especially children) just because they happen to be in a public place without asking. I understand your situation, kids are adorable. They show live and innocence in photos that you don't nomally find in adults - that's the reason why i took up photography again when my son was born after given up for almost 10 yrs. As a parent I AM very sensitive about my kids' pics being taken by someone else - especially by some strangers without my prior consent! If that happens I will simply ask the "photographer" for his/her film/memory card or ELSE! ... no excuses! Maybe I am overly sensitive, but as you've mentioned in these "sick and twisted" days i don't know what the pics will be used for, and i take no chances! Now, "Is it ok to take pics of people (in a public place) and post on the Web (because the pics are "not bad" to you) and only agree to remove the pics when they find out?" .... Well ... Is it ok for thieves to do their stealings (in a public place) and simply allow them to just put back the goods when getting caught? - My answer to both of these questions is a big "NO!" My advice is : always ask permission first - even if it means missing some of those "great shots".

I hope my post did not offend you in any way, it's just an Australian parent point of view (who also likes photography just like you and any others)
Happy shooting,
LTP

You can demand all you want, but I'd never give you my cf card. If you don't want your kid seen in public, then keep them home.

Now if you asked me nicely to not shoot your kids, I'd certainly oblige...certainly I'd not intentionally make them the subject of any photos. But if they are playing with my kids, and I'm shooting my kids....then yours might indeed be in some of my photos.

You might THINK you have a right to not be photographed, but in the USA you do NOT have that right. On the contrary, it is MY right to take pictures of photos in public places.

I'm a curteous sort of person and I wouldn't go out of my way to offend anyone....but neither would I respond favorably to anyone speaking to me as you suggest.

I understand the safety concerns.....but if you are that concerned, then keep your kids home. After all, the real danger isn't the guy taking a photo, but the guy with his hands free watching the kids. If that's too scary for you -- then keep your kids in controlled, private places.

Your irrational fear is not my problem.

Lee

Wow.

Whats with all these violent reactions?

Smash camera, demand my Compact Flash card etc..

How about politley ask the person to delete the picture?

Shrug

LTP wrote:
Well ... Is it ok for thieves to do their stealings

LTP said:

(in a public place) and simply allow them to just put back the
goods when getting caught? -

Click to expand...

that's total nonsense and stupid analogy. stealing is illegal. taking photos of kids in public place is not.

My answer to both of these questions

LTP said:

is a big "NO!" My advice is : always ask permission first - even
if it means missing some of those "great shots".
I hope my post did not offend you in any way, it's just an
Australian parent point of view (who also likes photography just
like you and any others)

Click to expand...

did you ever take candid shots of people? if so I hope you ask the permission first or else....

LTP said:

Happy shooting,
LTP

Click to expand...

--
Minë Corma hostië të ilyë ar mordossë nutië të
Mornórëo Nóressë yassë i Fuini caitar.
Un thoron arart’a s’un hith mal’kemen ioke.
Saurulmaiel