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Troubling Noise on the d2h

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Elizabeth McCollister

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Dear Readers,

With all due respect, here is what I have to say. I'm 57, a Nikon for 32 years. The interview with the Canon guy posted on these forums compared to the interview with the Nikon guy were like round 1 of the presidential debates. The core question being, "Will I be better in 4 years than I am now?"

I bought the d2h recently and immediately noticed the exagerrted noise compared to others in the Nikon lineup, thus leading to this line of questioning. I downloaded the Noise Ninja beta tonight and was totallly surprised by the results. I just shot something tonight with off-camera flashes. Luckily I was not on deadline. But it begs the question: will I be better off with Nikon 4 years from now.

The contrast off-camera flash creates between highlights and background affect the noise of the d2h. Using NN was incredible. Zapped the grain and allowed me to sharpen. Used ISO 800 throughout. Shoudln't be a problem, never was with the d70. Wish the d2h would have inbuillt NR.

Unfortunately.
 
I don't know if 4 year projections are possible in this technology.

Have you recently begun shooting digitally after much experience with film? The reaction of the digital medium is very different than film with respect to exposure. There are known issues with the D2h concerning the relationship of exposure and high iso noise that require that your exposure technique be modified to minimize noise. Use the search function (d2h noise) and you will have more than an evening's reading to do. It has, on occasion, been contentious.

Here's an article by Adobe' Bruce Frasier about noise and exposure:
http://www.adobe.com/products/photoshop/pdfs/linear_gamma.pdf
Elizabeth McCollister said:
Dear Readers,

With all due respect, here is what I have to say. I'm 57, a Nikon
for 32 years. The interview with the Canon guy posted on these
forums compared to the interview with the Nikon guy were like round
1 of the presidential debates. The core question being, "Will I be
better in 4 years than I am now?"

I bought the d2h recently and immediately noticed the exagerrted
noise compared to others in the Nikon lineup, thus leading to this
line of questioning. I downloaded the Noise Ninja beta tonight and
was totallly surprised by the results. I just shot something
tonight with off-camera flashes. Luckily I was not on deadline.
But it begs the question: will I be better off with Nikon 4 years
from now.

The contrast off-camera flash creates between highlights and
background affect the noise of the d2h. Using NN was incredible.
Zapped the grain and allowed me to sharpen. Used ISO 800
throughout. Shoudln't be a problem, never was with the d70. Wish
the d2h would have inbuillt NR.

Unfortunately.
Click to expand...
--
http://radio.weblogs.com/0101365/categories/photos/
Read my blog -> http://radio.weblogs.com/0101365/
 
Hi Elizabeth,

I also have about 30 years of photography experience. Olympus, Yashica, and Pentax on the film side, Canon and Nikon on the digital. There are several things I have learned about noise:

1. Noise exists in photography, whether I pushed Tri-X to ISO 800 and beyond in my film cameras or whether I shot the digital at above ISO 800. It is just an unfortunate effect of low light.

2. In the digital world there are 2 types of noise redction: "in camera" (Canon) controlled by the camera and external (Nikon) controlled by the photographer.

I also have 25 years in the IT industry and I have learned that I prefer to be in control of what software does, and in camera NR is nothing more than software. Canons, while the output shows less "noise", to my eye also has a bit of a soft, "plastic" look as if it were run through Neat Image with the settings a bit too high.

I have also found, going along with my "controlling" side, that if I don't rely on the camera the get the setting right that I have better control of the noise. I shoot in either full manual or aperture priority 99% of the time and set my WB manually 95% of the time.

Doing that I get very acceptable noise from my D2h all the way up to ISO 3200. Is it easy? No, it took me several thousand frames to learn to make my settings. Do I wish that the sensor had less noise? Of course. My father has been a mechanic for 50 years and in all that time I have never known him to blame his tools when he has trouble reparing a car. I have tried to learn that lesson with my camera (and computer) equipment. Is the D2h the "perfect" camera? Not by any means but I feel it does get a "bad rap" too many times when it comes to noise. My advise for you is to play with the settings, when you get results you like look at the EXIF info and start there the next time and see if you can get even better results. Do this and I am sure that the D2h will reward you well!

This shot was at ISO 3200. The only light was a 75 W incandescent bulb almost directly above him. I think the noise is very acceptable.


Elizabeth McCollister said:
Dear Readers,

With all due respect, here is what I have to say. I'm 57, a Nikon
for 32 years. The interview with the Canon guy posted on these
forums compared to the interview with the Nikon guy were like round
1 of the presidential debates. The core question being, "Will I be
better in 4 years than I am now?"

I bought the d2h recently and immediately noticed the exagerrted
noise compared to others in the Nikon lineup, thus leading to this
line of questioning. I downloaded the Noise Ninja beta tonight and
was totallly surprised by the results. I just shot something
tonight with off-camera flashes. Luckily I was not on deadline.
But it begs the question: will I be better off with Nikon 4 years
from now.

The contrast off-camera flash creates between highlights and
background affect the noise of the d2h. Using NN was incredible.
Zapped the grain and allowed me to sharpen. Used ISO 800
throughout. Shoudln't be a problem, never was with the d70. Wish
the d2h would have inbuillt NR.

Unfortunately.
Click to expand...
 
Chris,

Great article. Thanks for sharing!

Michael
Chris101 said:
Have you recently begun shooting digitally after much experience
with film? The reaction of the digital medium is very different
than film with respect to exposure. There are known issues with
the D2h concerning the relationship of exposure and high iso noise
that require that your exposure technique be modified to minimize
noise. Use the search function (d2h noise) and you will have more
than an evening's reading to do. It has, on occasion, been
contentious.

Here's an article by Adobe' Bruce Frasier about noise and exposure:
http://www.adobe.com/products/photoshop/pdfs/linear_gamma.pdf
Elizabeth McCollister said:
Dear Readers,

With all due respect, here is what I have to say. I'm 57, a Nikon
for 32 years. The interview with the Canon guy posted on these
forums compared to the interview with the Nikon guy were like round
1 of the presidential debates. The core question being, "Will I be
better in 4 years than I am now?"

I bought the d2h recently and immediately noticed the exagerrted
noise compared to others in the Nikon lineup, thus leading to this
line of questioning. I downloaded the Noise Ninja beta tonight and
was totallly surprised by the results. I just shot something
tonight with off-camera flashes. Luckily I was not on deadline.
But it begs the question: will I be better off with Nikon 4 years
from now.

The contrast off-camera flash creates between highlights and
background affect the noise of the d2h. Using NN was incredible.
Zapped the grain and allowed me to sharpen. Used ISO 800
throughout. Shoudln't be a problem, never was with the d70. Wish
the d2h would have inbuillt NR.

Unfortunately.
Click to expand...
--
http://radio.weblogs.com/0101365/categories/photos/
Read my blog -> http://radio.weblogs.com/0101365/
Click to expand...
 
I realize you've only been a member here for a few days...

1) When complaining or asking for help, please post an example of the problem you are describing. Other users may learn from you or have some new advice to offer. (You also get more help, and more meaningful help this way.)

Because this subject is really old news...

2) Let me suggest using the search function before launching a new thread. This subject (D2H high ISO noise) has been discussed in great depth many times before with much good advice already shared.

People knocking Nikon in one form or another and suggesting switching brands has been widely discussed as well. I don't think you'll find any new thoughts or ideas on this subject either. (Again, try searching on this subject if you are curious.) Moreover, the past has shown threads like this one seem to inspire trolls and they rapidly degenerate into fairly ugly, unproductive discussions.

Lastly, if you really feel you would be happier with another brand, I suggest you switch. Complaining here won't help you.

JB
Elizabeth McCollister said:
Dear Readers,

With all due respect, here is what I have to say. I'm 57, a Nikon
for 32 years. The interview with the Canon guy posted on these
forums compared to the interview with the Nikon guy were like round
1 of the presidential debates. The core question being, "Will I be
better in 4 years than I am now?"

I bought the d2h recently and immediately noticed the exagerrted
noise compared to others in the Nikon lineup, thus leading to this
line of questioning. I downloaded the Noise Ninja beta tonight and
was totallly surprised by the results. I just shot something
tonight with off-camera flashes. Luckily I was not on deadline.
But it begs the question: will I be better off with Nikon 4 years
from now.

The contrast off-camera flash creates between highlights and
background affect the noise of the d2h. Using NN was incredible.
Zapped the grain and allowed me to sharpen. Used ISO 800
throughout. Shoudln't be a problem, never was with the d70. Wish
the d2h would have inbuillt NR.

Unfortunately.
Click to expand...
 
Elizabeth McCollister said:
Dear Readers,

With all due respect, here is what I have to say. I'm 57, a Nikon
for 32 years. The interview with the Canon guy posted on these
forums compared to the interview with the Nikon guy were like round
1 of the presidential debates. The core question being, "Will I be
better in 4 years than I am now?"

I bought the d2h recently and immediately noticed the exagerrted
noise compared to others in the Nikon lineup, thus leading to this
line of questioning. I downloaded the Noise Ninja beta tonight and
was totallly surprised by the results. I just shot something
tonight with off-camera flashes. Luckily I was not on deadline.
But it begs the question: will I be better off with Nikon 4 years
from now.
Click to expand...
Elizabeth:

I've also been doing amateur photography for 30 years, but found that digital was a whole new ballgame, especially in the area of noise/grain and its relationship to exposure. It's true of all digital cameras, but I've found the D2H to be less forgiving of exposure errors and the penalty is noise. In a wide-exposure-latitude image, you may be screwed by a digital camera's 6-7 stop dynamic range and the resultant issues with relatively more noise in the shadow areas - it makes your exposure choices all the more critical, especially on this camera. One thing that has helped me in those kind of situations has been loading a custom tone curve into my D2H, especially for use in images that have a lot of contrast or dynamic range. I have been using Yoshi's tone curve in those challenging situations and I find it helps me to manage those shadows and decrease the noise. It can be loaded into your D2H as a selectable custom tone curve (using Nikon Capture Control) or you can apply it after the fact in Capture Editor if it's in the camera.

Yoshi's curve is here (right click "save target as.."
http://www.importjdm.com/yoshi/Tone%20Curves/yoshi%206471_148.ntc

Are we related?

--
Howard McCollister
 
Michael in Atlanta said:
2. In the digital world there are 2 types of noise redction: "in
camera" (Canon) controlled by the camera and external (Nikon)
controlled by the photographer.

I also have 25 years in the IT industry and I have learned that I
prefer to be in control of what software does, and in camera NR is
nothing more than software. Canons, while the output shows less
"noise", to my eye also has a bit of a soft, "plastic" look as if
it were run through Neat Image with the settings a bit too high.
Click to expand...
Unfortunately, that is a gross oversimplification of how some cameras achieve images with low noise. Canon does not accomplish these lower noise levels by noise reduction alone. Take the 20D, for example. The 20D's new sensor uses considerably larger microlenses, decreases the space between each microlens by 50%, and makes a greater area of each pixel sensitive to light thanks to the elimination of transistors at each pixel. All this results in higher sensor sensitivity, requiring less signal amplification, resulting in less noise. The reduction in pixel size between the 6mp 10D to the 8mp 20D is basically nullified. And in fact, the 20D's pixels are even more efficient in their ability to capture light. Then, of the signal amplification that Canon does employ, they use a new digital control circuit board that has two dedicated ground layers for very low-noise amplification. And finally, they use a new second-generation on-chip 3-stage noise reduction circuit, which is the refinement of their years of CMOS digital signal processing experience. That's how Canon is able to achieve such low noise levels while retaining so much image detail. Canon brings their extensive experience in CMOS design, fabrication and electronics knowledge into play to achieve what they have achieved with their 8mp 1.6x CMOS. It's not just a case of slapping on aggressive noise reduction. It's only the last step of many steps that work to minimize the amount of noise in the image to begin with. If you want a very noisy image that you can have the option of wiping away with external noise-reduction software, so be it. Others prefer that the noise was minimal to begin with, beginning at the native photosite sensor source level. To imply that Canon achieves lower noise levels with "nothing more than software" is terribly naive. As for the mythical "plastic" look that some people attribute to Canon images, that is more the result of poor sharpening and post-processing technique. In blind comparisons, you would be very hard pressed to tell the difference between properly handled low ISO Nikon images versus Canon images, with some people probably pointing to certain Nikon images as being Canon images that are "plasticky", and vice versa.

Also, if you are implying that it is Nikon's policy to create noisy images so that users can have the option to deal with it themselves, that is also a bit naive. Expect Nikon to do everything in their power to implement noise reduction in their D2X. No doubt, they attempted to do the same with their D2H. But in the case of both sensors, these are both first generation sensors, and as such, there is limited experience in optimizing them. Canon's CMOS sensors, on the other hand, have been used in several generations of models (D30, D60, 10D, 1Ds, 300D, 1D MKII, 20D, 1Ds MKII), so Canon has had considerable time and experience in optimizing their performance and noise output. Certainly, if Nikon stuck with one sensor technology over several model generations, they too would probably have equal success.
 
T3 said:
Michael in Atlanta said:
2. In the digital world there are 2 types of noise redction: "in
camera" (Canon) controlled by the camera and external (Nikon)
controlled by the photographer.

I also have 25 years in the IT industry and I have learned that I
prefer to be in control of what software does, and in camera NR is
nothing more than software. Canons, while the output shows less
"noise", to my eye also has a bit of a soft, "plastic" look as if
it were run through Neat Image with the settings a bit too high.
Click to expand...
Unfortunately, that is a gross oversimplification of how some
cameras achieve images with low noise. Canon does not accomplish
these lower noise levels by noise reduction alone. Take the 20D,
for example. The 20D's new sensor uses considerably larger
microlenses, decreases the space between each microlens by 50%, and
makes a greater area of each pixel sensitive to light thanks to the
elimination of transistors at each pixel. All this results in
higher sensor sensitivity, requiring less signal amplification,
resulting in less noise. The reduction in pixel size between the
6mp 10D to the 8mp 20D is basically nullified. And in fact, the
20D's pixels are even more efficient in their ability to capture
light. Then, of the signal amplification that Canon does employ,
they use a new digital control circuit board that has two dedicated
ground layers for very low-noise amplification. And finally, they
use a new second-generation on-chip 3-stage noise reduction
circuit, which is the refinement of their years of CMOS digital
signal processing experience. That's how Canon is able to achieve
such low noise levels while retaining so much image detail. Canon
brings their extensive experience in CMOS design, fabrication and
electronics knowledge into play to achieve what they have achieved
with their 8mp 1.6x CMOS. It's not just a case of slapping on
aggressive noise reduction. It's only the last step of many steps
that work to minimize the amount of noise in the image to begin
with. If you want a very noisy image that you can have the option
of wiping away with external noise-reduction software, so be it.
Others prefer that the noise was minimal to begin with, beginning
at the native photosite sensor source level. To imply that Canon
achieves lower noise levels with "nothing more than software" is
terribly naive. As for the mythical "plastic" look that some
people attribute to Canon images, that is more the result of poor
sharpening and post-processing technique. In blind comparisons,
you would be very hard pressed to tell the difference between
properly handled low ISO Nikon images versus Canon images, with
some people probably pointing to certain Nikon images as being
Canon images that are "plasticky", and vice versa.

Also, if you are implying that it is Nikon's policy to create noisy
images so that users can have the option to deal with it
themselves, that is also a bit naive. Expect Nikon to do
everything in their power to implement noise reduction in their
D2X. No doubt, they attempted to do the same with their D2H. But
in the case of both sensors, these are both first generation
sensors, and as such, there is limited experience in optimizing
them. Canon's CMOS sensors, on the other hand, have been used in
several generations of models (D30, D60, 10D, 1Ds, 300D, 1D MKII,
20D, 1Ds MKII), so Canon has had considerable time and experience
in optimizing their performance and noise output. Certainly, if
Nikon stuck with one sensor technology over several model
generations, they too would probably have equal success.
Click to expand...
--
H McCollister
 
T3 said:
Michael in Atlanta said:
2. In the digital world there are 2 types of noise redction: "in
camera" (Canon) controlled by the camera and external (Nikon)
controlled by the photographer.

I also have 25 years in the IT industry and I have learned that I
prefer to be in control of what software does, and in camera NR is
nothing more than software. Canons, while the output shows less
"noise", to my eye also has a bit of a soft, "plastic" look as if
it were run through Neat Image with the settings a bit too high.
Click to expand...
Unfortunately, that is a gross oversimplification of how some
cameras achieve images with low noise. Canon does not accomplish
these lower noise levels by noise reduction alone. Take the 20D,
for example.
Click to expand...
Maybe my response is a bit of an over simplification but try reading the original post. It is from a newbie so I tried to make my response as simple as possible so that someone who is new to digital can understand and do something the too many people refuse to do, learn. Sorry but anything electronic has 2 parts software and hardware. Digital control circuits are based on software. Frimware is software. AA filters are software. I stand by my statement. Canon uses more software to control noise than Nikon. As you stated more control circuits, stronger aa filter, etc, I was not being naive, I was trying to explain in a way that someone who is not familiar with digital would understand. If you give someone new too much technical information they will get frustrated and give up. That is not what this forum is about. It is about teaching the new people how to use their equipment.

As far as your so called "blind comparisons" go, in the last 3 years I have shot approx. 500,000 digital frames. Of those I have shot almost half of them with a Canon 1D so I would venture to say that I know both systems better than almost anyone else on this forum. I can look at my shots and tell you exactly which ones were shot with a 1D, and which ones were shot with a D1x or a D2h. Sorry but there IS a different look to the Canon images vs the Nikon images. And my experience is that the majority of that difference is from the in camera noise reduction. I am not trying to start a Canon vs. Nikon war. I am just stating fact based on my own personal experience with both systems. I am not even trying to say that one is better than the other. If you prefer the Canon method then great but don't tell me that I don't know what I am talking about just because I prefer the other.
 
If you are going to explain something then you should at least be close.

AAFilters. These are OPTICAL devices placed in front of the sensor to blur the image. They are non-related to noise. They are not software. They are not firmware.

There are two types of NR: You are right on this but wrong after words. There ARE two types of noise reduction. Software (NN and NI) and hardware. The hardware NR that Canon has mastered is not at all the same as software. With HW Noise Reduction, the goal is to minimize the noise from ever entering the signal in the first place. If the noise does enter the signal, the trick is to then sample the noise and then subtract it from the signal. Examples of hardware NR include twisted pairs, impedance matching, separate analog and digital grounds/ground planes and using differential amplifiers.

In short: Hardware NR is good (in general) Software is Bad (in general). It is MUCH better to do NR at the hardware level than it is the software level.

Steven

--
---
New and Updated!!!
Fall 2004:
http://www.pbase.com/snoyes/image_a_week_fall2004

Lightning:
http://www.pbase.com/snoyes/lightning_strikes
 
Anyone who speaks of the truth as "making noise" has his or her head in the sand.. It's a good attitude to have if you can except that Nikon has been and you want Nikon to remain technologically stagnant. I think most Nikon owners would be happy to see Nikon move forward in spite of your ignorance.
 
Ah, so you waited a week to "sound" like a real Nikon use.

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1021&message=10508044

I'm going with my first hunch - I don't buy your story one bit. I think you're another re-invention of an old "friend". This type of thread is just too similar to others.

1) Nikon loyalist distressed over Nikon's gloomy future
2) Discussion over the basic flaws of the D2H
3) NO pictures to be found showing how this flaw is plaguing your life

Joe
Elizabeth McCollister said:
Dear Readers,

With all due respect, here is what I have to say. I'm 57, a Nikon
for 32 years. The interview with the Canon guy posted on these
forums compared to the interview with the Nikon guy were like round
1 of the presidential debates. The core question being, "Will I be
better in 4 years than I am now?"

I bought the d2h recently and immediately noticed the exagerrted
noise compared to others in the Nikon lineup, thus leading to this
line of questioning. I downloaded the Noise Ninja beta tonight and
was totallly surprised by the results. I just shot something
tonight with off-camera flashes. Luckily I was not on deadline.
But it begs the question: will I be better off with Nikon 4 years
from now.

The contrast off-camera flash creates between highlights and
background affect the noise of the d2h. Using NN was incredible.
Zapped the grain and allowed me to sharpen. Used ISO 800
throughout. Shoudln't be a problem, never was with the d70. Wish
the d2h would have inbuillt NR.

Unfortunately.
Click to expand...
 
It must be very difficult to keep this site up to date..

http://www.geocities.com/phanbusters/

HMc
Snowden said:
Anyone who speaks of the truth as "making noise" has his or her
head in the sand.. It's a good attitude to have if you can except
that Nikon has been and you want Nikon to remain technologically
stagnant. I think most Nikon owners would be happy to see Nikon
move forward in spite of your ignorance.
Click to expand...
--
H McCollister
 
JB,

It seems "really old news" generated some interesting insights just as the topic of Iraq's WMD capabilites have just today stirred new discussion. Old threads may answer some questions but technology marches on. The Noise Ninja PS plugin was just released. That makes my plugin to this forum quite relevent. I am impressed with the NN plugin. I rarely shoot deadline assignments(for a magazine) but I did notice the flash-lit areas looked great(color, tone, noise) but the shadows were not so nice.

You say "post an example of the problem" and at the same time, "the subject is really old news." Seems like you know every conceivable thing about this issue.

You seem insecure. I'm past the age of insecurity. That is one of the gifts of time.

By the way, I have read many posts for and against Nikon. Dissention always brings up the argument to switch. That's like saying you should leave your family because of some annoying and bothersome siblings. Please. I have lived and I will die clutching Nikons. I have loved and I have hated them. But Nikon is my family. The ties bind, sometimes loosely.
jb_va2001 said:
1) When complaining or asking for help, please post an example of
the problem you are describing. Other users may learn from you or
have some new advice to offer. (You also get more help, and more
meaningful help this way.)

Because this subject is really old news...
2) Let me suggest using the search function before launching a new
thread. This subject (D2H high ISO noise) has been discussed in
great depth many times before with much good advice already shared.

People knocking Nikon in one form or another and suggesting
switching brands has been widely discussed as well. I don't think
you'll find any new thoughts or ideas on this subject either.
(Again, try searching on this subject if you are curious.)
Moreover, the past has shown threads like this one seem to inspire
trolls and they rapidly degenerate into fairly ugly, unproductive
discussions.

Lastly, if you really feel you would be happier with another brand,
I suggest you switch. Complaining here won't help you.

JB
Elizabeth McCollister said:
Dear Readers,

With all due respect, here is what I have to say. I'm 57, a Nikon
for 32 years. The interview with the Canon guy posted on these
forums compared to the interview with the Nikon guy were like round
1 of the presidential debates. The core question being, "Will I be
better in 4 years than I am now?"

I bought the d2h recently and immediately noticed the exagerrted
noise compared to others in the Nikon lineup, thus leading to this
line of questioning. I downloaded the Noise Ninja beta tonight and
was totallly surprised by the results. I just shot something
tonight with off-camera flashes. Luckily I was not on deadline.
But it begs the question: will I be better off with Nikon 4 years
from now.

The contrast off-camera flash creates between highlights and
background affect the noise of the d2h. Using NN was incredible.
Zapped the grain and allowed me to sharpen. Used ISO 800
throughout. Shoudln't be a problem, never was with the d70. Wish
the d2h would have inbuillt NR.

Unfortunately.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
Joe,

You are a real wonder.
Joe Marques said:
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1021&message=10508044

I'm going with my first hunch - I don't buy your story one bit. I
think you're another re-invention of an old "friend". This type of
thread is just too similar to others.

1) Nikon loyalist distressed over Nikon's gloomy future
2) Discussion over the basic flaws of the D2H
3) NO pictures to be found showing how this flaw is plaguing your life

Joe
Elizabeth McCollister said:
Dear Readers,

With all due respect, here is what I have to say. I'm 57, a Nikon
for 32 years. The interview with the Canon guy posted on these
forums compared to the interview with the Nikon guy were like round
1 of the presidential debates. The core question being, "Will I be
better in 4 years than I am now?"

I bought the d2h recently and immediately noticed the exagerrted
noise compared to others in the Nikon lineup, thus leading to this
line of questioning. I downloaded the Noise Ninja beta tonight and
was totallly surprised by the results. I just shot something
tonight with off-camera flashes. Luckily I was not on deadline.
But it begs the question: will I be better off with Nikon 4 years
from now.

The contrast off-camera flash creates between highlights and
background affect the noise of the d2h. Using NN was incredible.
Zapped the grain and allowed me to sharpen. Used ISO 800
throughout. Shoudln't be a problem, never was with the d70. Wish
the d2h would have inbuillt NR.

Unfortunately.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
Thanks Hmac,

I downloaded Yoshi's curve and I can't wait to check them out. And yes, we are related: wer'e members of the loving Nikon family.

Just got on the list for the d2x. Semper Fikon.
hmac said:
Elizabeth McCollister said:
Dear Readers,

With all due respect, here is what I have to say. I'm 57, a Nikon
for 32 years. The interview with the Canon guy posted on these
forums compared to the interview with the Nikon guy were like round
1 of the presidential debates. The core question being, "Will I be
better in 4 years than I am now?"

I bought the d2h recently and immediately noticed the exagerrted
noise compared to others in the Nikon lineup, thus leading to this
line of questioning. I downloaded the Noise Ninja beta tonight and
was totallly surprised by the results. I just shot something
tonight with off-camera flashes. Luckily I was not on deadline.
But it begs the question: will I be better off with Nikon 4 years
from now.
Click to expand...
Elizabeth:

I've also been doing amateur photography for 30 years, but found
that digital was a whole new ballgame, especially in the area of
noise/grain and its relationship to exposure. It's true of all
digital cameras, but I've found the D2H to be less forgiving of
exposure errors and the penalty is noise. In a
wide-exposure-latitude image, you may be screwed by a digital
camera's 6-7 stop dynamic range and the resultant issues with
relatively more noise in the shadow areas - it makes your exposure
choices all the more critical, especially on this camera. One thing
that has helped me in those kind of situations has been loading a
custom tone curve into my D2H, especially for use in images that
have a lot of contrast or dynamic range. I have been using Yoshi's
tone curve in those challenging situations and I find it helps me
to manage those shadows and decrease the noise. It can be loaded
into your D2H as a selectable custom tone curve (using Nikon
Capture Control) or you can apply it after the fact in Capture
Editor if it's in the camera.

Yoshi's curve is here (right click "save target as.."
http://www.importjdm.com/yoshi/Tone%20Curves/yoshi%206471_148.ntc

Are we related?

--
Howard McCollister
Click to expand...
 
Elizabeth McCollister said:
Thanks Hmac,

I downloaded Yoshi's curve and I can't wait to check them out. And
yes, we are related: wer'e members of the loving Nikon family.
Click to expand...
Ah. I knew we were related somehow....

One other thing you might try is Auto-ISO in manual exposure mode. I've not used it enough to have a solid opinion, but reportedly there are some noise advantages in situations of low and variable lighting.

Also, Ming Thein has some custom curves that you may like more than Yoshi's. Look at http://www.ming-group.com/
--
Howard McCollister
 
This might sound odd, but with the D2H I up-res my photos in photoshop using image size, and then I adjust the bicubic setting to 'bicubic smooth'. When you do this, photoshop slightly smooths the noise and makes it less noticable. I do this because I tend to crop slightly and when I send my photos out to clients, there is a perception that file sizes should be around a certain size (especially when magazines are buying the photos and they expect a decent size hi-res).
Elizabeth McCollister said:
Dear Readers,

With all due respect, here is what I have to say. I'm 57, a Nikon
for 32 years. The interview with the Canon guy posted on these
forums compared to the interview with the Nikon guy were like round
1 of the presidential debates. The core question being, "Will I be
better in 4 years than I am now?"

I bought the d2h recently and immediately noticed the exagerrted
noise compared to others in the Nikon lineup, thus leading to this
line of questioning. I downloaded the Noise Ninja beta tonight and
was totallly surprised by the results. I just shot something
tonight with off-camera flashes. Luckily I was not on deadline.
But it begs the question: will I be better off with Nikon 4 years
from now.

The contrast off-camera flash creates between highlights and
background affect the noise of the d2h. Using NN was incredible.
Zapped the grain and allowed me to sharpen. Used ISO 800
throughout. Shoudln't be a problem, never was with the d70. Wish
the d2h would have inbuillt NR.

Unfortunately.
Click to expand...
--
got banned?

http://www.inhousephoto.com
 
J F/2

I have no problem post-processing with Noise Ninja. Looks great.
WIsh it could be in-camera. Maybe the two companies can strike a deal.
Jonathan F/2 said:
Elizabeth McCollister said:
Dear Readers,

With all due respect, here is what I have to say. I'm 57, a Nikon
for 32 years. The interview with the Canon guy posted on these
forums compared to the interview with the Nikon guy were like round
1 of the presidential debates. The core question being, "Will I be
better in 4 years than I am now?"

I bought the d2h recently and immediately noticed the exagerrted
noise compared to others in the Nikon lineup, thus leading to this
line of questioning. I downloaded the Noise Ninja beta tonight and
was totallly surprised by the results. I just shot something
tonight with off-camera flashes. Luckily I was not on deadline.
But it begs the question: will I be better off with Nikon 4 years
from now.

The contrast off-camera flash creates between highlights and
background affect the noise of the d2h. Using NN was incredible.
Zapped the grain and allowed me to sharpen. Used ISO 800
throughout. Shoudln't be a problem, never was with the d70. Wish
the d2h would have inbuillt NR.

Unfortunately.
Click to expand...
--
got banned?

http://www.inhousephoto.com
Click to expand...
 
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