Color Saturation - 20D

Arun Jain · Oct 4, 2004

I am looking to purchase a DSLR and very interested in the 20D. I have until now owned only P&S digital and film SLRs. Not being a Pro or even an advanced amateur, I am almost afraid to post in this forum for fear of getting flamed or not getting a straight answer. At least, that's my perception after reading some of the hostile posts.

Anyway, after looking at some of the pictures from 20D posted here, it seemed to me that the color saturation seems to be a bit off. I had noticed this from the beginning and it became even more apparent after seeing samples from the Minolta 7D. I know the images can be post processed in Photoshop to increase saturation, but does anyone here think that this is a legitimate issue with the 20D? Can the saturation be increased to one's liking by changing the setting in the camera, so one gets better images right out of the camera, without much need for post processing?

Again, I am neither a Canon fan nor a Minolta fan. In fact, I own a Canon A80 and am thrilled with its performance. I just want to own a DSLR also. Thanks for your comments.

Russell · Oct 4, 2004

I have only had the 20D for about a week but so far can say that out of my D60, 10D and 20D, the 20D images need the least post processing of any camera I have had.

The saturation can be turned up in the camera with very pleasing results. I like what I get when it is set to normal when I am shooting "people" pictures. I turn up the contrast and sat. to MidHigh when shooting most non-people subjects.

This image is with all settings at normal (her cheeks are red from playing) it has only been resized, no color or contrast added. To me the 20D images are great and the camera is so fun to use:

Arun Jain said:
I am looking to purchase a DSLR and very interested in the 20D. I
have until now owned only P&S digital and film SLRs. Not being a
Pro or even an advanced amateur, I am almost afraid to post in this
forum for fear of getting flamed or not getting a straight answer.
At least, that's my perception after reading some of the hostile
posts.

Anyway, after looking at some of the pictures from 20D posted here,
it seemed to me that the color saturation seems to be a bit off. I
had noticed this from the beginning and it became even more
apparent after seeing samples from the Minolta 7D. I know the
images can be post processed in Photoshop to increase saturation,
but does anyone here think that this is a legitimate issue with the
20D? Can the saturation be increased to one's liking by changing
the setting in the camera, so one gets better images right out of
the camera, without much need for post processing?

Again, I am neither a Canon fan nor a Minolta fan. In fact, I own a
Canon A80 and am thrilled with its performance. I just want to own
a DSLR also. Thanks for your comments.

--
http://www.mindspring.com/~sardian/RussellFulmer/

http://www.mindspring.com/~russellandtracy/Aaron 's%20499/

See profile for gear.

hqm · Oct 4, 2004

Russell said:
Russell said:

Again, I am neither a Canon fan nor a Minolta fan. In fact, I own a
Canon A80 and am thrilled with its performance. I just want to own
a DSLR also. Thanks for your comments.

Click to expand...

You can get A80-like results by turning the saturation up to max on the 20D.

I prefer to keep things more neutral and use something like PhotoCleaner on my PC to do these adjustments though.

If you turn sharpness, contrast, and saturation up all the way, you'll have a $1500 point-and-shoot.

smitzy · Oct 4, 2004

Arun , i own a 10D and that is an excellent piece of equipment.Reviews over here bymany suggests a 20D is way better than the 10.So by all means go for it!!

and while you are at it , plan on getting some good lenses too

Arun Jain said:
I am looking to purchase a DSLR and very interested in the 20D. I
have until now owned only P&S digital and film SLRs. Not being a
Pro or even an advanced amateur, I am almost afraid to post in this
forum for fear of getting flamed or not getting a straight answer.
At least, that's my perception after reading some of the hostile
posts.

Anyway, after looking at some of the pictures from 20D posted here,
it seemed to me that the color saturation seems to be a bit off. I
had noticed this from the beginning and it became even more
apparent after seeing samples from the Minolta 7D. I know the
images can be post processed in Photoshop to increase saturation,
but does anyone here think that this is a legitimate issue with the
20D? Can the saturation be increased to one's liking by changing
the setting in the camera, so one gets better images right out of
the camera, without much need for post processing?

Again, I am neither a Canon fan nor a Minolta fan. In fact, I own a
Canon A80 and am thrilled with its performance. I just want to own
a DSLR also. Thanks for your comments.

Michael Kaplan · Oct 4, 2004

The problem is not thee camera. It is because people are using the aRGB Adobe RGB color space and when viewed in the sRGB color space (your normal monitor Y software settings) it looks more dull. Try saving a picture to your HD and opening it in Photoshop (and version) and make sure you select the Adobe RGB color space. You will see ht ebeautiful colors it gives. I went shooting up north Sunday for some fall colors and they were fantastic. Such vivid colors, great focus and fantastic exposure. I love the 20D!

Arun Jain said:
I am looking to purchase a DSLR and very interested in the 20D. I
have until now owned only P&S digital and film SLRs. Not being a
Pro or even an advanced amateur, I am almost afraid to post in this
forum for fear of getting flamed or not getting a straight answer.
At least, that's my perception after reading some of the hostile
posts.

Anyway, after looking at some of the pictures from 20D posted here,
it seemed to me that the color saturation seems to be a bit off. I
had noticed this from the beginning and it became even more
apparent after seeing samples from the Minolta 7D. I know the
images can be post processed in Photoshop to increase saturation,
but does anyone here think that this is a legitimate issue with the
20D? Can the saturation be increased to one's liking by changing
the setting in the camera, so one gets better images right out of
the camera, without much need for post processing?

Again, I am neither a Canon fan nor a Minolta fan. In fact, I own a
Canon A80 and am thrilled with its performance. I just want to own
a DSLR also. Thanks for your comments.

--
Michael Kaplan
http://www.pbase.com/mkaplan
Canon EOS-20D

pdqgp · Oct 4, 2004

here are two with no color or level processing done at all:

http://www.pbase.com/pdqgp/image/34572187
http://www.pbase.com/pdqgp/image/34594100

My workflow is very simple now. Even the shots here...required little to no processing. Some shadow processing only on the first two images. Should have popped up the flash for some fill..but it was about timing.

http://www.pbase.com/pdqgp/my_20d_and_a_dog_named_jake

Russell said:
The saturation can be turned up in the camera with very pleasing
results. I like what I get when it is set to normal when I am
shooting "people" pictures. I turn up the contrast and sat. to
MidHigh when shooting most non-people subjects.

This image is with all settings at normal (her cheeks are red from
playing) it has only been resized, no color or contrast added. To
me the 20D images are great and the camera is so fun to use:

Arun Jain said:

I am looking to purchase a DSLR and very interested in the 20D. I
have until now owned only P&S digital and film SLRs. Not being a
Pro or even an advanced amateur, I am almost afraid to post in this
forum for fear of getting flamed or not getting a straight answer.
At least, that's my perception after reading some of the hostile
posts.

Anyway, after looking at some of the pictures from 20D posted here,
it seemed to me that the color saturation seems to be a bit off. I
had noticed this from the beginning and it became even more
apparent after seeing samples from the Minolta 7D. I know the
images can be post processed in Photoshop to increase saturation,
but does anyone here think that this is a legitimate issue with the
20D? Can the saturation be increased to one's liking by changing
the setting in the camera, so one gets better images right out of
the camera, without much need for post processing?

Again, I am neither a Canon fan nor a Minolta fan. In fact, I own a
Canon A80 and am thrilled with its performance. I just want to own
a DSLR also. Thanks for your comments.

Click to expand...

--
http://www.mindspring.com/~sardian/RussellFulmer/

http://www.mindspring.com/~russellandtracy/Aaron 's%20499/

See profile for gear.

--
-tim
http://www.pbase.com/pdqgp

Martin Eager · Oct 4, 2004

20D shots are more neutral straight out of camera.

But that's not the end of the story and is actually a good thing.

20D shots can be saturated nicely to taste in Photoshop, or if you tweak the custom parameters while shooting.

Cheers
Martin
http

hotos.runic.com

AndrewMac · Oct 4, 2004

I've been very happy with the out of the box saturation from my 20D.

As in-

Cheers

Andrew McGregor

My site: http://www.australian-images.net

Daniella68313 · Oct 4, 2004

the color space makes a big difference. Once should always convert to srgb for viewing on the web.

Michael Kaplan said:
Arun Jain said:

I am looking to purchase a DSLR and very interested in the 20D. I
have until now owned only P&S digital and film SLRs. Not being a
Pro or even an advanced amateur, I am almost afraid to post in this
forum for fear of getting flamed or not getting a straight answer.
At least, that's my perception after reading some of the hostile
posts.

Anyway, after looking at some of the pictures from 20D posted here,
it seemed to me that the color saturation seems to be a bit off. I
had noticed this from the beginning and it became even more
apparent after seeing samples from the Minolta 7D. I know the
images can be post processed in Photoshop to increase saturation,
but does anyone here think that this is a legitimate issue with the
20D? Can the saturation be increased to one's liking by changing
the setting in the camera, so one gets better images right out of
the camera, without much need for post processing?

Again, I am neither a Canon fan nor a Minolta fan. In fact, I own a
Canon A80 and am thrilled with its performance. I just want to own
a DSLR also. Thanks for your comments.

Click to expand...

--
Michael Kaplan
http://www.pbase.com/mkaplan
Canon EOS-20D

--
Minë Corma hostië të ilyë ar mordossë nutië të
Mornórëo Nóressë yassë i Fuini caitar.
Un thoron arart’a s’un hith mal’kemen ioke.
Saurulmaiel

Old Timer63 · Oct 4, 2004

Michael Kaplan said:
The problem is not thee camera. It is because people are using the
aRGB Adobe RGB color space and when viewed in the sRGB color space
(your normal monitor Y software settings) it looks more dull. Try
saving a picture to your HD and opening it in Photoshop (and
version) and make sure you select the Adobe RGB color space. You
will see ht ebeautiful colors it gives. I went shooting up north
Sunday for some fall colors and they were fantastic. Such vivid
colors, great focus and fantastic exposure. I love the 20D!

Mike

So you are saying shoot in Adobe RGB,process in CR in Adobe RGB and send it to PS as Adobe RGB(in fact keep everything in Adobe RGB?)

--
Dave C

TheAmateur · Oct 4, 2004

Thanks Daniella for the info. Your online gallery is stunning.

Daniella said:
Michael Kaplan said:

Arun Jain said:

I am looking to purchase a DSLR and very interested in the 20D. I
have until now owned only P&S digital and film SLRs. Not being a
Pro or even an advanced amateur, I am almost afraid to post in this
forum for fear of getting flamed or not getting a straight answer.
At least, that's my perception after reading some of the hostile
posts.

Anyway, after looking at some of the pictures from 20D posted here,
it seemed to me that the color saturation seems to be a bit off. I
had noticed this from the beginning and it became even more
apparent after seeing samples from the Minolta 7D. I know the
images can be post processed in Photoshop to increase saturation,
but does anyone here think that this is a legitimate issue with the
20D? Can the saturation be increased to one's liking by changing
the setting in the camera, so one gets better images right out of
the camera, without much need for post processing?

Again, I am neither a Canon fan nor a Minolta fan. In fact, I own a
Canon A80 and am thrilled with its performance. I just want to own
a DSLR also. Thanks for your comments.

Click to expand...

--
Michael Kaplan
http://www.pbase.com/mkaplan
Canon EOS-20D

Click to expand...

--
Minë Corma hostië të ilyë ar mordossë nutië të
Mornórëo Nóressë yassë i Fuini caitar.
Un thoron arart’a s’un hith mal’kemen ioke.
Saurulmaiel

Old Timer63 · Oct 4, 2004

Dave Chilvers said:
Michael Kaplan said:

The problem is not thee camera. It is because people are using the
aRGB Adobe RGB color space and when viewed in the sRGB color space
(your normal monitor Y software settings) it looks more dull. Try
saving a picture to your HD and opening it in Photoshop (and
version) and make sure you select the Adobe RGB color space. You
will see ht ebeautiful colors it gives. I went shooting up north
Sunday for some fall colors and they were fantastic. Such vivid
colors, great focus and fantastic exposure. I love the 20D!

Click to expand...

Mike

So you are saying shoot in Adobe RGB,process in CR in Adobe RGB and
send it to PS as Adobe RGB(in fact keep everything in Adobe RGB?)

Old Timer63 said:
Dave C

Sorry mike, got your name spely wrong.
Dave C

Arun Jain · Oct 4, 2004

Wow! I got to see some fantastic pics & galaries. I am beginning to see how your taste can also affect the saturation you see in pics.

I am pretty close to sold on the 20D and thanks for helping me in the decision process.

Regards

Russell · Oct 4, 2004

All that is fine and good but if you are going to show the image on the net you need to convert it to sRGB before posting it to the net. The color will look very washed out if you leave it in aRGB since most browsers can't show it correctly.

Russell

Dave Chilvers said:
Michael Kaplan said:

The problem is not thee camera. It is because people are using the
aRGB Adobe RGB color space and when viewed in the sRGB color space
(your normal monitor Y software settings) it looks more dull. Try
saving a picture to your HD and opening it in Photoshop (and
version) and make sure you select the Adobe RGB color space. You
will see ht ebeautiful colors it gives. I went shooting up north
Sunday for some fall colors and they were fantastic. Such vivid
colors, great focus and fantastic exposure. I love the 20D!

Click to expand...

Mike

So you are saying shoot in Adobe RGB,process in CR in Adobe RGB and
send it to PS as Adobe RGB(in fact keep everything in Adobe RGB?)

--
Dave C

--
http://www.mindspring.com/~sardian/RussellFulmer/

http://www.mindspring.com/~russellandtracy/Aaron 's%20499/

See profile for gear.

Michael Kaplan · Oct 4, 2004

Here are a couple of pics I took Sunday. These are my first Pano's with the 20D. Tell me if the saturation look bad?

Arun Jain said:
I am looking to purchase a DSLR and very interested in the 20D. I
have until now owned only P&S digital and film SLRs. Not being a
Pro or even an advanced amateur, I am almost afraid to post in this
forum for fear of getting flamed or not getting a straight answer.
At least, that's my perception after reading some of the hostile
posts.

Anyway, after looking at some of the pictures from 20D posted here,
it seemed to me that the color saturation seems to be a bit off. I
had noticed this from the beginning and it became even more
apparent after seeing samples from the Minolta 7D. I know the
images can be post processed in Photoshop to increase saturation,
but does anyone here think that this is a legitimate issue with the
20D? Can the saturation be increased to one's liking by changing
the setting in the camera, so one gets better images right out of
the camera, without much need for post processing?

Again, I am neither a Canon fan nor a Minolta fan. In fact, I own a
Canon A80 and am thrilled with its performance. I just want to own
a DSLR also. Thanks for your comments.

--
Michael Kaplan
http://www.pbase.com/mkaplan
Canon EOS-20D

Michael Kaplan · Oct 4, 2004

Exactly as Russel said.

What I do is my camera is set to Adobe RGB. I use raw, convert, edit in PS all in Adobe RGB and save TIF that way. I then convert to sRGB and save a smaller JPG for my web page.

Dave Chilvers said:
So you are saying shoot in Adobe RGB,process in CR in Adobe RGB and
send it to PS as Adobe RGB(in fact keep everything in Adobe RGB?)

--
Michael Kaplan
http://www.pbase.com/mkaplan
Canon EOS-20D

Arun Jain · Oct 4, 2004

Mike,

Awesome pics. The saturation looks almost perfect! Thanks.

Michael Kaplan said:
Arun Jain said:

I am looking to purchase a DSLR and very interested in the 20D. I
have until now owned only P&S digital and film SLRs. Not being a
Pro or even an advanced amateur, I am almost afraid to post in this
forum for fear of getting flamed or not getting a straight answer.
At least, that's my perception after reading some of the hostile
posts.

Anyway, after looking at some of the pictures from 20D posted here,
it seemed to me that the color saturation seems to be a bit off. I
had noticed this from the beginning and it became even more
apparent after seeing samples from the Minolta 7D. I know the
images can be post processed in Photoshop to increase saturation,
but does anyone here think that this is a legitimate issue with the
20D? Can the saturation be increased to one's liking by changing
the setting in the camera, so one gets better images right out of
the camera, without much need for post processing?

Again, I am neither a Canon fan nor a Minolta fan. In fact, I own a
Canon A80 and am thrilled with its performance. I just want to own
a DSLR also. Thanks for your comments.

Click to expand...

--
Michael Kaplan
http://www.pbase.com/mkaplan
Canon EOS-20D

Sutt · Oct 4, 2004

Here are a couple of quick tests I did that might clear up the color saturation thing for all the newbies wondering why they are getting flat photos with the default settings.

Ok the shots are great, but the point of this is to experiment with your camera settings. There is alot you can do with the settings of the 20D if you are not into post-processing. This is the same principle of the P&S, and the Nikon D70, in-camera processing.
--
'Never Underestimate the Power of Denial'
http://www.pbase.com/sutt
http://www.digitalsutt.com

Jarl Sandberg · Oct 4, 2004

Thanks for the examples. I must try it out myself.

As a transfer user from a 300D I've noticed that the 20D is "better" from the camera compared to the 300D. Perhaps it is only imagination but I can skip one step in my workflow (PS auto color) since the 20D images doesn't improve by this (but my 300D images improved greatly)

--jalle

Old Timer63 · Oct 5, 2004

Converted this image to Adobe RGB and then worked on it as Adobe RGB in CS and I must say after adding saturation the colours are better than working sRGB.
http://www.pbase.com/davechilvers/image/34677717&exif=Y
BTW the 12-24 does seem a lot better on the 20 D(don't ask me why)

Thanks for info

--
Dave C

Color Saturation - 20D

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