D30 AI Servo AF success story!

Check out this page.

There is detailed information about shooting outdoors high-speed sports with a 100-400IS in AI servo mode.

After reading it, it seems to me that maybe the D30 AF can't compare to EOS 3 or 1V, but in the hands of experienced photographer can deliver great and professional images.

Here is the link:
http://www.lonestardigital.com/

FRED

FRED said:

Check out this page.
http://www.lonestardigital.com/

Click to expand...

I like his site... I visit it often. In fact, I was there this morning before this new page was put up!

There's one line, though, that bothers me a lot...

Member said:

Member said:

And ISO 800 or 1600 would degrade the image quality too much.

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

I don't really see too much difference in random noise between the D30's ISO 800 or 1600 settings and the film equivalents. It's a shame that people are not willing to use these higher ISO settings, citing image degradation, when in reality, it's not all that severe. Besides, can't the noise (or grain, depending on how you look at it) be removed in software?

JCDoss

I think that what he meant was that at ISO 400, one would get the best of the worlds.

ISO 100 or 200 would be the best choice as far as noise is concern (but not possible when using the 100-400IS for sports).

ISO 400 gives very smooth pictures, especially outdoors. (and high shutter speeds for outdoor action shots).

ISO 800 and 1600 are very usable in my opinion as well, but if I would only use it only if I HAD to.

There are lots of software and Photoshop actions that clean ISO 800 and 1600 nicely. I've tried a variety but still think that Qimage D1 medium ISO gets rid of the color and luma noise without sacrificing image quality.
FRED

JCDoss said:

FRED said:

Check out this page.
http://www.lonestardigital.com/

Click to expand...

I like his site... I visit it often. In fact, I was there this
morning before this new page was put up!

There's one line, though, that bothers me a lot...

Member said:

Member said:

And ISO 800 or 1600 would degrade the image quality too much.

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

I don't really see too much difference in random noise between the
D30's ISO 800 or 1600 settings and the film equivalents. It's a
shame that people are not willing to use these higher ISO settings,
citing image degradation, when in reality, it's not all that
severe. Besides, can't the noise (or grain, depending on how you
look at it) be removed in software?

JCDoss

Click to expand...

FRED said:

Check out this page.
There is detailed information about shooting outdoors high-speed
sports with a 100-400IS in AI servo mode.
After reading it, it seems to me that maybe the D30 AF can't
compare to EOS 3 or 1V, but in the hands of experienced
photographer can deliver great and professional images.

Here is the link:
http://www.lonestardigital.com/

Click to expand...

Nice panning shot, but how about with them coming right at you? If you think not, check out this link I posted to Brian Cleary's site a week or so ago ... he can do it! So I'm with you Fred. Just have to make some adjustments to the way the new gear works. Don't miss his full gallery, awesome.

http://www.bcpix.com/d30/about.html

Thanks for the nice compliments, guys.

ISO 400 'was' chosen for the best of both worlds. If I had to go to 800 or 1600 to get enough shutter speed, I would have, but even in bright sunlight the quality would have suffered a bit.

Tonight / tomorrow I'm planning on putting up a 12 pack gallery of more shots with comments from the race event. It'll be linked from a (big) thumbnail set on my home page. (Including some "coming at you" shots.)

John Cowley
http://www.lonestardigital.com

FRED said:

Check out this page.
There is detailed information about shooting outdoors high-speed
sports with a 100-400IS in AI servo mode.
After reading it, it seems to me that maybe the D30 AF can't
compare to EOS 3 or 1V, but in the hands of experienced
photographer can deliver great and professional images.

Here is the link:
http://www.lonestardigital.com/

FRED

Click to expand...

I find I get many more successes with birds in flight with the D30 vs my EOS 3.

If you own a 100-400IS you value your newfound ability to use lower ISOs so much it's hard to give it up!

JCDoss said:

FRED said:

Check out this page.
http://www.lonestardigital.com/

Click to expand...

I like his site... I visit it often. In fact, I was there this
morning before this new page was put up!

There's one line, though, that bothers me a lot...

Member said:

Member said:

And ISO 800 or 1600 would degrade the image quality too much.

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

I don't really see too much difference in random noise between the
D30's ISO 800 or 1600 settings and the film equivalents. It's a
shame that people are not willing to use these higher ISO settings,
citing image degradation, when in reality, it's not all that
severe. Besides, can't the noise (or grain, depending on how you
look at it) be removed in software?

JCDoss

Click to expand...

John,

Thanks for the very informative web page and almost daily updates you provide, with pictures, tips, etc...

I'd like to ask you a few questions regarding to your “camera settings” for action sports.

Which metering do you prefer using when using AI servo in continuous mode? Evaluative? What about when in single shot mode and no action?

I assume the pictures were shot in Jpeg fine mode. Right?

Also, did you try manual focus on those motorcycle shots? Any success if you tried?

Since we all know that you've tried/owned pretty much the majority of Professional digital cameras, including the D1 and Kodaks, how you compare the AI servo AF functions of the D30 compared to some PRO cameras?

Sorry, one last question, did you use a monopod in any of the shots?

I'm looking forward to seeing more pictures from you shooting.
Best regards,
FRED

John Cowley said:

Thanks for the nice compliments, guys.

ISO 400 'was' chosen for the best of both worlds. If I had to go
to 800 or 1600 to get enough shutter speed, I would have, but even
in bright sunlight the quality would have suffered a bit.

Tonight / tomorrow I'm planning on putting up a 12 pack gallery of
more shots with comments from the race event. It'll be linked from
a (big) thumbnail set on my home page. (Including some "coming at
you" shots.)

John Cowley
http://www.lonestardigital.com

Click to expand...

I also use the 100-400mm L IS for action shots. Here are some shots taken at ISO 200 and servo mode. In most of these cases, the gliders were flying toward me. Don't let the phrase "glide" fool you. These guys do move fast.

FRED said:

Check out this page.
There is detailed information about shooting outdoors high-speed
sports with a 100-400IS in AI servo mode.
After reading it, it seems to me that maybe the D30 AF can't
compare to EOS 3 or 1V, but in the hands of experienced
photographer can deliver great and professional images.

Here is the link:
http://www.lonestardigital.com/

FRED

Click to expand...

Ben said:

I also use the 100-400mm L IS for action shots. Here are some
shots taken at ISO 200 and servo mode. In most of these cases, the
gliders were flying toward me. Don't let the phrase "glide" fool
you. These guys do move fast.

Click to expand...

Wow Ben, those are great shots! Actually I have a question concerning a telephoto lens. I need to get a good IS telephoto lens and am torn b/w the Canon 300mm f4 L IS and the 100-400 L IS. I like the 300 because it is faster and is a "prime" lens. I can always add a 1.4x teleconverter for the extra zoom, but does the 300 have better image quality due to it being a fixed focal length "prime", or is this just an old doctrine that's hard to break? I like the zooming of the 100-400, but I'm concerned if I need the extra speed of the f4.

I just checked photodo.com.

The 300mm f/4 NON IS rates: 4.3
The 300mm f/4 IS rates: 3.4
The 100-400mm IS rates: 3.6

I find it odd that the IS version rates "worse" than the IS version. Canon must have re-engineered it some. When coupled with a 1.4x converter, the quality of the 300mm f/4 IS will degrade even more, although slightly. At 300mm and f/8, the 300mm f/4 IS and 100-400mm IS are nearly identical.

Personally, I think the 100-400mm wins compared to the 300mm f/4 IS. I shoot at f/8 to f/10, and don't use a teleconverter, so I don't mind if the lens is somewhat slow. I think you'll find that most people here on the forum opt for the 100-400mm L IS as a long "L" series lens.

Joe Tan said:

Ben said:

I also use the 100-400mm L IS for action shots. Here are some
shots taken at ISO 200 and servo mode. In most of these cases, the
gliders were flying toward me. Don't let the phrase "glide" fool
you. These guys do move fast.

Click to expand...

Wow Ben, those are great shots! Actually I have a question
concerning a telephoto lens. I need to get a good IS telephoto
lens and am torn b/w the Canon 300mm f4 L IS and the 100-400 L IS.
I like the 300 because it is faster and is a "prime" lens. I can
always add a 1.4x teleconverter for the extra zoom, but does the
300 have better image quality due to it being a fixed focal length
"prime", or is this just an old doctrine that's hard to break? I
like the zooming of the 100-400, but I'm concerned if I need the
extra speed of the f4.

Click to expand...

FRED said:

I'd like to ask you a few questions regarding to your “camera
settings” for action sports.

Click to expand...

Member said:

Which metering do you prefer using when using AI servo in
continuous mode? Evaluative? What about when in single shot mode
and no action?

Click to expand...

I use the Evaluative mode nearly all the time... except...

For tricky lighting situations (like large areas of extreme brightness or darkness), I'll switch to manual exposure, choose an aperture, and dial the shutter speed up or down as I watch the viewfinder's exposure meter reading with the "bullseye" aimed at a neutral subject.

Example: Outdoors in bright sun, I'll aim the camera at some grass (an excellent and readily available neutral subject) and dial the aperture / shutter combination until the exposure pointer is dead center on the viewfinder's meter. 9 out of 10 times, the pictures are perfectly (or nearly perfectly) exposed. And always close enough to easily bump them in with PhotoShop.

The motorcycle shots were all done in the Evaluative metering mode.

Member said:

I assume the pictures were shot in Jpeg fine mode. Right?

Click to expand...

Wrong. I recently switched to RAW. I convert my .crw originals to 8 bit Tiff's with Canon's quick processing method (double clicking on the icon in Windows Explorer) and do my post processing in Adobe PhotoShop 6.0.1.

In my opinion, the converted RAW pix are more filmlike, cleaner, and a bit richer looking than the in-camera Jpeg's. This was a difficult decision to make for me... because the D30 does produce really excellent Jpegs. Those darn .crw RAW files are almost triple the size of the Jpeg fine / large files, seriously choking my memory card capacities down. Not to mention the added time in post processing. But I now think it's worth the difference. RAW rules!

RAW conversion: I find the Canon software extremely "clean" and simple to convert the .crw's to Tiff's (even though it's WAY to time consuming for my liking), and again, the results (in my opinion) are worth it. I like the results I've experienced with Canon's software much better than the results I've experienced with aftermarket software solutions.

For printing, I leave my picture files as Tiff's. For web posting, I save them as 95% quality / Zero smoothing Jpegs in ThumbsPlus 4.10.

Member said:

Also, did you try manual focus on those motorcycle shots? Any success if you tried?

Click to expand...

All the motorcycle shots were AI Servo Autofocused. I rarely use manual focus... only if I (rarely, rarely, rarely) have trouble with the D30's autofocus.

Member said:

Since we all know that you've tried/owned pretty much the majority
of Professional digital cameras, including the D1 and Kodaks, how
you compare the AI servo AF functions of the D30 compared to some
PRO cameras?

Click to expand...

About the same. No better, no worse.
I don't even think about it, Canon's AI Servo AF gives me no trouble.

Member said:

One last question, did you use a monopod in any of the shots?

Click to expand...

No. I have a nice monopod, but I was gifted with "rock steady" hands, and rarely use it. (grin)

Member said:

I'm looking forward to seeing more pictures from you shooting.
Best regards,
FRED

Click to expand...

Thanks, Fred. I thought I'd have enough time to put a group of the racing shots by today, but my day job & home chores are choking my fun time. (!) I expect I'll get them up pretty soon... In the meantime, I'll post new singles as I can.

John Cowley
http://www.lonestardigital.com

John Cowley14597 said:

John Cowley wrote:
I use the Evaluative mode nearly all the time... except...
Example: Outdoors in bright sun, I'll aim the camera at some grass
(an excellent and readily available neutral subject) and dial the
aperture / shutter combination until the exposure pointer is dead
center on the viewfinder's meter. 9 out of 10 times, the pictures
are perfectly (or nearly perfectly) exposed. And always close
enough to easily bump them in with PhotoShop.

Click to expand...

This makes a lot of sense. Aiming the camera to a neutral subject or even a gray card is a very good idea for those contrasty shots. Usually, I use Evaluative and tweak the EV until a get the shot. I will try your tip.

One question though, when you aim the camera to a neutral subject, which area in the viewfinder is being metered when in manual mode? The center area?

John Cowley14597 said:

John Cowley14597 said:

I assume the pictures were shot in Jpeg fine mode. Right?

Click to expand...

Wrong. I recently switched to RAW. I convert my .crw originals to
8 bit Tiff's with Canon's quick processing method (double clicking
on the icon in Windows Explorer) and do my post processing in Adobe
PhotoShop 6.0.1.

In my opinion, the converted RAW pix are more filmlike, cleaner,
and a bit richer looking than the in-camera Jpeg's. This was a
difficult decision to make for me... because the D30 does produce
really excellent Jpegs. Those darn .crw RAW files are almost
triple the size of the Jpeg fine / large files, seriously choking
my memory card capacities down. Not to mention the added time in
post processing. But I now think it's worth the difference. RAW
rules!

Click to expand...

I shoot RAW 100% now as well. The images are indeed cleaner and richer in color and dynamic range.

I though you may be shooting in JPEG, to get more continuous frames out of the motorcycles shots. I'm glad to know that even in RAW mode, action shots are not a problem for the D30.

John Cowley14597 said:

RAW conversion: I find the Canon software extremely "clean" and
simple to convert the .crw's to Tiff's (even though it's WAY to
time consuming for my liking), and again, the results (in my
opinion) are worth it. I like the results I've experienced with
Canon's software much better than the results I've experienced with
aftermarket software solutions.

Click to expand...

I used to use the twain module in Photoshop 6.0.1, but I would loose the file name. Not counting that the twain browser is very basic.

I'm using third party softwares that use the Canon RAW extractor or use the Canon dll files.
Two great softwares for this are "yarc"
http://www.roava.net/~henderbc/yarc.htm

And CRW brigde:
http://hem.passagen.se/martendalfors/crwbridge/index.htm

John Cowley14597 said:

For printing, I leave my picture files as Tiff's. For web posting,
I save them as 95% quality / Zero smoothing Jpegs in ThumbsPlus
4.10.

John Cowley14597 said:

Also, did you try manual focus on those motorcycle shots? Any success if you tried?

Click to expand...

All the motorcycle shots were AI Servo Autofocused. I rarely use
manual focus... only if I (rarely, rarely, rarely) have trouble
with the D30's autofocus.

John Cowley14597 said:

Since we all know that you've tried/owned pretty much the majority
of Professional digital cameras, including the D1 and Kodaks, how
you compare the AI servo AF functions of the D30 compared to some
PRO cameras?

Click to expand...

About the same. No better, no worse.
I don't even think about it, Canon's AI Servo AF gives me no trouble.

Click to expand...

This is great to know!

John Cowley14597 said:

John Cowley14597 said:

One last question, did you use a monopod in any of the shots?

Click to expand...

No. I have a nice monopod, but I was gifted with "rock steady"
hands, and rarely use it. (grin)

John Cowley14597 said:

I'm looking forward to seeing more pictures from you shooting.
Best regards,
FRED

Click to expand...

Thanks, Fred. I thought I'd have enough time to put a group of the
racing shots by today, but my day job & home chores are choking my
fun time. (!) I expect I'll get them up pretty soon... In the
meantime, I'll post new singles as I can.

John Cowley

Click to expand...

John, keep up the amazing work!! And thanks for the reply
FRED

There is a new example and more tips on John Cowley's page.

It seems like he is posting one action shot picture every day and explaning his settings.
It's been very helpful to me.
Best,
FRED

Here is his link again:
http://www.lonestardigital.com/

FRED said:

Check out this page.
There is detailed information about shooting outdoors high-speed
sports with a 100-400IS in AI servo mode.
After reading it, it seems to me that maybe the D30 AF can't
compare to EOS 3 or 1V, but in the hands of experienced
photographer can deliver great and professional images.

Here is the link:
http://www.lonestardigital.com/

FRED

Click to expand...