From D7D to D5D

Now that Dynax 7D is out, what could we expect from a entry level DSLR, something like EOS300D? What could we remove from D7D to get a cheaper DSLR?

• More noise: limited to ISO 800 instead of ISO 3200
• Smaller buffer: 3fps for 8 frames instead of 12
• Smaller LCD: 1.8" 113000px instead of 2.5" 207000px

Is market big enough between A2 (A3?) and D7D to insert a D5D?

Canon has both the Pro1 and the EOS300D in a very close price range, did they make a mistake?

gquintana said:

Now that Dynax 7D is out, what could we expect from a entry level
DSLR, something like EOS300D? What could we remove from D7D to get
a cheaper DSLR?

• More noise: limited to ISO 800 instead of ISO 3200
• Smaller buffer: 3fps for 8 frames instead of 12
• Smaller LCD: 1.8" 113000px instead of 2.5" 207000px

Is market big enough between A2 (A3?) and D7D to insert a D5D?
Canon has both the Pro1 and the EOS300D in a very close price
range, did they make a mistake?

Click to expand...

Look at the price gap between the 5 and the 7 (at least when the 7 was selling for $599) ... digital technology aside, there's probably $300 in straight body features (magnesium body, large glass prism viewfinder, AF motor, etc.) that can be dropped in making an entry level model, and then the electronics can be "lessened" as you mentioned (don't see the financial benefit in limiting the ISO range, but the buffer and the LCD - the LCD would most likely have to be smaller). I think they could produce a 5-based entry level DSLR with AS at the same price as the DRebel/D70. Unfortunately, by the time they get around to releasing it, the entry level Canon will probably be 8MP and someone will have a $600 camera on the market !

I can easily see entry level DSLRs selling for less than high end digicams - some portion of the high end digicam market was obviously buying them as a "poor mans DSLR" and that's just going to change, but there will always be a market for high end digicams (often among people who also own DSLRs).

My idle speculation

• Dennis

...even the idle speculation. lol.

Dennis said:

gquintana said:

Now that Dynax 7D is out, what could we expect from a entry level
DSLR, something like EOS300D? What could we remove from D7D to get
a cheaper DSLR?

• More noise: limited to ISO 800 instead of ISO 3200
• Smaller buffer: 3fps for 8 frames instead of 12
• Smaller LCD: 1.8" 113000px instead of 2.5" 207000px

Is market big enough between A2 (A3?) and D7D to insert a D5D?
Canon has both the Pro1 and the EOS300D in a very close price
range, did they make a mistake?

Click to expand...

Look at the price gap between the 5 and the 7 (at least when the 7
was selling for $599) ... digital technology aside, there's
probably $300 in straight body features (magnesium body, large
glass prism viewfinder, AF motor, etc.) that can be dropped in
making an entry level model, and then the electronics can be
"lessened" as you mentioned (don't see the financial benefit in
limiting the ISO range, but the buffer and the LCD - the LCD would
most likely have to be smaller). I think they could produce a
5-based entry level DSLR with AS at the same price as the
DRebel/D70. Unfortunately, by the time they get around to
releasing it, the entry level Canon will probably be 8MP and
someone will have a $600 camera on the market !

I can easily see entry level DSLRs selling for less than high end
digicams - some portion of the high end digicam market was
obviously buying them as a "poor mans DSLR" and that's just going
to change, but there will always be a market for high end digicams
(often among people who also own DSLRs).

My idle speculation

• Dennis

Click to expand...

--
My concert photos and more @ http://insinity.deviantart.com/

(snipped)

Dennis said:

Dennis wrote:
don't see the financial benefit in
limiting the ISO range,> - Dennis

Click to expand...

Agreed, Dennis. There's no good justification for any camera maker to "dumb-down" ISO settings.

No matter what you spend on your film camera, you can still always use whatever quality level of film, your wallet can afford.

This is why even the more basic, of film cameras, will always have the ability to produce higher quality images.

Camera makers should keep a policy of, no matter what features a camera may, or may not have. The sensor needs to be set up to perform at the absolute optimum quality level. This should apply to image quality, dynamic range, grain levels, and ISO.

This would allow digital to at least stay up to par, with it's film counter parts.

--
Sol

Sometimes a photograph captures reality.
Sometimes a photograph captures the imagination.
Ultimately, a photograph simply captures a moment in time.
And then, . . . it lives forever.

Sol said:

Sol said:

Dennis wrote:
don't see the financial benefit in
limiting the ISO range,> - Dennis

Click to expand...

Agreed, Dennis. There's no good justification for any camera maker
to "dumb-down" ISO settings.

Click to expand...

While the DRebel is dumbed down, the D70 is a pretty nice camera, and the isdDS seems pretty capable (though obviously more consumer-oriented). Minolta has a great track record in this regard ... compare a 5 versus a 7 or 9 on paper (or a 70 for that matter) and what you get for $200 is pretty incredible. I expect an entry level camera from KM to be far more appealing to "outsiders" than the D7 ... just as Minolta traditionally has a better market share in entry level film SLRs than advanced amateur/pro models. Throw in AS for the price of the competition and it could be a great way to get more users into the system.

• Dennis

I agree theres no need to cripple a camera or base it on the analog dynax 5 . The '5d' name shouldnt have anything to do with the analog version. Even my 800si has 90% of the pro camera features-people would rather buy this type of camera rather than a 'rebel' type camera..Thats what minolta is well known for-releasing cameras with most the pro features at much lower prices than the competition.They should just make a 7d out of plastic and call it a 5d.

gquintana said:

Now that Dynax 7D is out, what could we expect from a entry level
DSLR, something like EOS300D? What could we remove from D7D to get
a cheaper DSLR?

• More noise: limited to ISO 800 instead of ISO 3200
• Smaller buffer: 3fps for 8 frames instead of 12
• Smaller LCD: 1.8" 113000px instead of 2.5" 207000px

Is market big enough between A2 (A3?) and D7D to insert a D5D?
Canon has both the Pro1 and the EOS300D in a very close price
range, did they make a mistake?

Click to expand...

If Minolta can make a 5D or 3D with
no AS and sell at street price of $500,
they will gain market share.

I would pick up a 6MP non-AS as a backup
body for $500 street price. Maybe even
with a tiny/noisy G600 sensor.

when released.

My thinking is that it'll be 'slightly' dumbed-down and maybe plastic, and just a 20-30% cheaper. They'll want the market, but won't want to give it away. Even without AS!

Just speculation.

Matt Cham said:

If Minolta can make a 5D or 3D with
no AS and sell at street price of $500,
they will gain market share.

I would pick up a 6MP non-AS as a backup
body for $500 street price. Maybe even
with a tiny/noisy G600 sensor.

Click to expand...

--
JusGene
'The easiest thing you can be ... is wrong!' -Me (7/29/1993)
'Statistically, people make mistakes 70% of the time' -Independent Research Firm
'The more you know, the more you don't know' -Me (8/14/1987)
'Life is nothing, but for a bunch of words' -Me (11/4/1990)

I wanted to say a noisier and less good (but cheaper) sensor. For me, the presence of noise implies you can not use high ISO values. Am I wrong?

I don't think KM would remove AS from D5D because it became one of their biggest selling arguments. IMHO, AS is what makes KM different from others. With the new Z3, even the Z family has AS now!

gquintana said:

Now that Dynax 7D is out, what could we expect from a entry level
DSLR, something like EOS300D? What could we remove from D7D to get
a cheaper DSLR?

• More noise: limited to ISO 800 instead of ISO 3200

Click to expand...

Nope... Higher ISO speeds would be the main reason many people would buy a DSLR to begin with.

gquintana said:

• Smaller buffer: 3fps for 8 frames instead of 12

Click to expand...

That sounds reasonable (but they wouldn't be able to wait too long -- else the competition would have bigger buffers in their entry level models)
.

gquintana said:

• Smaller LCD: 1.8" 113000px instead of 2.5" 207000px

Click to expand...

Sure (as long as you can magnify the photo in playback enough to see the details). My little Konica KD-510z only has a 1.5" 117,000 pixel LCD. But, since I can magnify an image up to 12x using the zoom controls, and move it around on the display, this works great.

gquintana said:

Is market big enough between A2 (A3?) and D7D to insert a D5D?

Click to expand...

Sure.... They'd also get some amount of ongoing revenue from the D5D sale, since users would spend money on lenses, too.

gquintana said:

Canon has both the Pro1 and the EOS300D in a very close price
range, did they make a mistake?

Click to expand...

Heck no. One thing you have to give Canon credit for is marketing.

Also, if users bought a model like the A2 and were not satisified with noise levels at higher ISO speeds (but still liked the camera), then they may be more likely to upgrade to the D5D, too.

KM could always reduce the flash sync speed to 1/160 second (with Anti-shake OFF), and 1/125 second (with Anti-shake ON) to make it less expensive. Although then, the Nikon D70 would be much better in this area (thanks to it's 1/500 second sync speed).

Sorry, I couldn't resist.

--
JimC
------
http://www.pbase.com/jcockfield/konica_kd510z

Image Quality and AS.. they are essential weapons to fight..

Do whatever you want to the rest

Sol said:

Sol said:

Dennis wrote:
don't see the financial benefit in
limiting the ISO range,> - Dennis

Click to expand...

Agreed, Dennis. There's no good justification for any camera maker
to "dumb-down" ISO settings.
No matter what you spend on your film camera, you can still always
use whatever quality level of film, your wallet can afford.
This is why even the more basic, of film cameras, will always have
the ability to produce higher quality images.
Camera makers should keep a policy of, no matter what features a
camera may, or may not have. The sensor needs to be set up to
perform at the absolute optimum quality level. This should apply to
image quality, dynamic range, grain levels, and ISO.
This would allow digital to at least stay up to par, with it's film
counter parts.

--
Sol

Sometimes a photograph captures reality.
Sometimes a photograph captures the imagination.
Ultimately, a photograph simply captures a moment in time.
And then, . . . it lives forever.

Click to expand...

Why D5D, Why not D60D

gquintana said:

Now that Dynax 7D is out, what could we expect from a entry level
DSLR, something like EOS300D? What could we remove from D7D to get
a cheaper DSLR?

• More noise: limited to ISO 800 instead of ISO 3200
• Smaller buffer: 3fps for 8 frames instead of 12
• Smaller LCD: 1.8" 113000px instead of 2.5" 207000px

Is market big enough between A2 (A3?) and D7D to insert a D5D?
Canon has both the Pro1 and the EOS300D in a very close price
range, did they make a mistake?

Click to expand...

In my opinion:

Noise is not an issue, 6Mpixel it's the standard so probably a similar sensor to go with.
Shutter is enough simplified on 7D so it must be at least the same.
Frame rate could be reduced (2fps), and buffer also (half).
Smaller display.
Lighter construction.
7 points AF.

AS maybe abandoned in "cheap" (below actual 300D) cameras, for a 5D it will be a must have feature.

gquintana said:

Now that Dynax 7D is out, what could we expect from a entry level
DSLR, something like EOS300D? What could we remove from D7D to get
a cheaper DSLR?

• More noise: limited to ISO 800 instead of ISO 3200
• Smaller buffer: 3fps for 8 frames instead of 12
• Smaller LCD: 1.8" 113000px instead of 2.5" 207000px

Is market big enough between A2 (A3?) and D7D to insert a D5D?
Canon has both the Pro1 and the EOS300D in a very close price
range, did they make a mistake?

Click to expand...