New 5.1 MP Olympus!!!!!!!!

walter38787 · Apr 27, 2001

jono,

The nice thing about the addon lenses is they are mag glass that will magnify the image inside without expecting a unique focal point. This means that if the mag glass has a equal or larger thread dia then they can be mounted to the new lenses. Look at the B300 it fits on the end of the t300 and works great. As long as the thread sizes for the new lenses are equal or slightly smaller step rings will allow for adaption.

Walter

jono slack said:
and if I want more pixels, why stop at 5.

On the other hand . . . . An E-11(E-20/D-10 whatever with less
noise, (possibly a larger sensor), 6Mp and a wider angle lense -
now we're talking.

But I doubt we'll get the continuity with the converter lenses -
surely the reason they work so well is that they were designed to
be 'part' of the existing lens when fitted. Surely any new lens
will have different characteristics and will need different
converters.

By replacing the E-10 with a new camera with a new range of
interchangeable lenses, designed to match a specific size of CCD
OLY will prove beyond doubt that they cannot be trusted to any sort
of continuity, and that will be the best reason for transferring
one's loyalty elsewhere.

kind regards
jono slack
(who still loves his E-10)

I've really bought in to the Rob Thompson said:

My thoughts are less technical than most, just that I want to see
some continuity from the E10 in which we all have considerable
investment. As an enthusiastic amateur, my E10 doesnt make me any
money, quite the opposite! What I want to see is the ability to
carry over some of my investment (flash, lenses etc) to the new
model. If that is a non starter then as far as I'm concerned, when
the time comes, the E10 will go lock, stock and barrel with all its
associated bits. If I have to do that then, there is a good chance
that Olympus will lose me to whatever may be the best camera from
whichever manufacturer makes it at the time.
Surely Olympus must realise this, and what about the effect on
sales of add ons now? Who is going to invest £500 in the Tcon if it
will be useless in a matter of months? A Pro perhaps but I will
certainly think long and hard before I invest much more.
I guess what I am saying is that when it arrives, I want to see a
model based on the E10 and Oly will almost certainly get my money
again.

Actually, when I think about it, the E10 really is still everything
I want, but there wont be much talk about it here when the new
model arrives. That's when the the upgrade bug will really bite!

Looking forward to your reply Jono.........

Rob

jono slack said:

I must say that personally my perfect camera would be an 8Mp E-10
with a 24-140 equivalent lense, less noise and a faster playback -
If I can get my focal lengths without interchangeable lenses I
really don't need the hassle of lugging them about! But I'll be
very wary of a new lense system - I bought in to the vectis lense
system when it looked like Minolta was going down the route of
smaller lenses - and got badly stung - no more no more!

kind regards
jono slack

Jeff said:

The sensor data sheet is very interesting. The sensor is about
twice the
size of the E-10 sensor (that is, four times the area), and about 1/4
of the area of a full frame 35mm. It has larger pixel size, good
dynamic
range (71db!), a pixel count of 2614 (H) x 1966 (V). I'm not
knowledgeable enough to interpret the noise stats, but presumably
with additional sensitivity due to the larger pixel size, the noise
contribution would be reduced.

To get a 35-140mm equivalent lens, the focal length of the
new lens would have to be roughly 18 - 72mm. So you'd think
this could work with a 62mm filter size. For example, the 85mm
f/1.8 nikkor has a 62mm filter ring.

Now the lens on the E-10 is very wide and sharp, and has that
unique design which brings the image in on a cylindrical axis.
Could it
be that the new sensor would fit inside the existing E-10 case?
If we called this the E-20, then Oly could be position the E-10 at
a price point of, say, $1200-$1300, and the E-20 at a package
price of $1650 with a 'standard' lens. If they adopted a 62mm
filter size, then the TCON14B and WCON might work just fine.
If the existing E-10 lens has sufficient coverage, it might even
be the basis for 18-72mm equiv lens on an interchangeable mount
for the E-20.

So Oly could continue to market the E-10 as a prosumer camera,
and the E-20 as an upgrade which offers interchangeable lenses,
substantially improved noise and a great 12 bit dynamic range,
and share a number of accessories including battery grip, flash,
converter lenses, and so forth. And since the sensor could later
scale to 16 MB at the same size, they would have a nice multiyear
path for an E-30, E-40.

In short, E-10 might the D-10 simply have been the first
installment in
longer strategy? Oly must have invested a small fortune in the
design of the E-10 and the extra components. It's in a vulnerable
price point as well, priced high enough to limit the market, but
low enough that they have to maximize their investment in
design and manufacturing.

This strategy would be like the introduction of the C-3030. At
that time Oly continued the C-2020 at a lower price point, and
extended the life of a successful chasis design, and accessories.
It seems like they have invested quite a lot into the E-10 design
not to try to leverage those investments into a future design.

It's fun to spectulate.

Jeff

jono slack said:

kind regards
jono slack

Michael Luna said:

I don't know about you all but I'm getting exceptional quality from
my E-10 and making money from it at the same time. I have ad's for
my clients running in national magazines that look as good as the
things shot in medium film format sitting right next to them.

Frankly 5.1 megapixel does not bring enough to the table...I'm
waiting for a full 8 MP (11 x 17 @ 300dpi) before I make a change.
(Yes, it's true my E-10 is in for repair right now... a little
pixel fixin) but this is truly a remarkable camera and for all but
full 2 page spreads this camera does the trick!

John Mason said:

For those who live in the forum and never venture to the home page:

Theres a new post about a 5.1 MP Olympus coming out in Feb 2002!

With interchangable lenses!

OM2 days again!
--
John Mason - Lafayette, Indiana, USA

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Erik Magnuson · Apr 27, 2001

jono slack said:
It's a good argument - so why don't they put this CCD into an
E-11 with a 24-240 lens on it? sounds fabulous to me!
low noise
lotsa pixels
same smashing handling

why throw all the cards in the air again?

Who says they won't? (Unless the cost to produce an E-10 type camera is so high that there would be no differentiator.) All they have announced is that they plan a interchangable lens camera - not that it will be their only camera. (I guess they feel that there is a sizeable market who just have to have multiple lenses.)

--
Erik

Tom C11968 · Apr 27, 2001

Check out Steve's news. Looking good to me.

Tom

John Mason said:
For those who live in the forum and never venture to the home page:

Theres a new post about a 5.1 MP Olympus coming out in Feb 2002!

With interchangable lenses!

OM2 days again!
--
John Mason - Lafayette, Indiana, USA

Colin McLaughlan · Apr 27, 2001

Yes Jono, you do sound stroppy. It also sounds as though you have developed late-stage buyers remorse in a big way.

What if they had announced another version of the E10 with a 5.1MP CCD but in the same case as the E10 and it was going to cost $2K ? Would that have made you happy ? What if the CCD changed size (more than likely) making you have to use a multiplier with your lenses ? I for one would have been peeved had they done that.

I for one don't really care. But I do want a sensor that is substantially larger than the one in the E10 before I make the jump to my next camera.

Enjoy your E10 for the next 18 months and see what Olympus does then. You will have the advantage of working with a camera till then that is a joy to use.

Regards,

Colin McLaughlan

jono slack said:
If I'm sounding stroppy about this, it's a mirage, I really aint

kind regards
jono slack

Greg Eddinger · Apr 27, 2001

John you must have seen the news this morning 04-27-01 It's about 18 months away according to the new link. My question is will it use the same len's as current 35 mm cameras or will it have a len's mated for the 4/3" CCD?

John Mason wrote:
For those who live in the forum and never venture to the home page:
Theres a new post about a 5.1 MP Olympus coming out in Feb 2002!

F.J.41613 · Apr 27, 2001

I don't think you're really out of step, just a critical thinker, and you bring up several rather valid points.

I'm not gonna give up/trade in my baby either!!

Thanks,
F.J.

jono slack said:
The E-10 is a great concept, which has been really well realised
(with a couple of gripes which we are all aware of). It could be
advanced into a really wonderful semi-pro tool, great ergonomics,
great portability, robust and with great results

Olympus don't have a very wonderful record in keeping up with the
competition with respect interchangeable lenses, and they would now
be starting with a new lens mount, and a brand new set of lenses,
which were designed to match a 4/3" CCD.

I would question thier commitment and abililty to develop a set of
35mm lenses with a new lens mount, but to develop a non standard
set of lenses - surely not.

If I were to consider buying a camera with interchangeable lenses
(which I might) then I would undoubtedly go for one which already
had lenses, and whose manufacturer had a track record of continuity.

I'm not naive enough to think that if Canon sell a plastic bodied
semi-pro camera for twice as much as the E-10 (with a less well
specified lens) and Nikon require even more money; then OLY can
produce a metal bodied interchangeable lens camera, complete with
lens for less than the E-10 - doesn't make sense to me.

Maybe I'm just paranoid - I'm certainly not planning on replacing
my E-10 at the moment, but looking at it rationally, I'm pretty
certain if I start looking at interchangeable lens cameras in
18months time, a 5Mp camera with a non standard lens system of
questionable future just ain't going to cut the mustard.

If I'm sounding stroppy about this, it's a mirage, I really aint

kind regards
jono slack

.F.J. said:

Hi Jono,

A question if I may,

jono slack wrote:
"...it sounds like OLY is going to throw out the whole concept and
replace it with a sub standard interchangeable lens slr."

Do you consider it to be sub-standard because of interchangeable
lenses, or it is going to be sub-standard anyway, and
interchangeable lenses just excaberate the issue? Also, what if
the CCD is sealed? does that make a difference? If it was sealed
(the CCD) and you had equivalent of E-10's lens, would that make
it acceptable?

No offense/flame meant, I just like your work, and want to better
understand your opinion.

Take care,

F.J.

Click to expand...

aee · Apr 27, 2001

I'm alarmed that this thread may be slowing down so here's some more fuel for the fire. Gotta keep it burning for the next year or so....

http://www.imaging-resource.com/NEWS/988405084.html

Jeff · Apr 27, 2001

That was a very cautious statement. I took it to mean that the 4/3"
sensor would be different camera, that is, something different from
the E series. So my earlier speculations in this thread would seem
incorrect. On the hand, it also mentioned the continued development
of the E series -- no surprise -- and is sufficiently ambiguous to give
no real hints of what is coming. So only time will tell....

Jeff

aee said:
I'm alarmed that this thread may be slowing down so here's some
more fuel for the fire. Gotta keep it burning for the next year or
so....

http://www.imaging-resource.com/NEWS/988405084.html

Jim K · Apr 27, 2001

Colin Eaton said:
The E-10 is going to be a hard act to follow...!

Please tell me your joking? While the E10 may be better over all then most consumer cameras, it doesn't even approach pro quality. Far too noisy when compared to the likes of higher end models. The noise problem with the E10 is in direct relationship to cramming almost 4MP on a small 3/4" CCD. The E10's internal software and design can do very little to keep the noise even at the level of consumer end 3.3MP camera's. If not for it's nice built and features it wouldn't be nearly as popular. It's amazing how so many people are willing to over look the high level of noise on the E10. Nice camera, great bang for the buck, but a larger CCD would definately be a welcome as it would surely be less noisy.

Jim K · Apr 27, 2001

Jim N AZ. said:
John, "Underdog brand"? Naw, not from my perspective. I've had mine
since November and use it commercially in my business and have
never had an inkling of thinking either Olympus or the E10 was an
underdog in any respect. In fact, I am still giggling a lot to
myself because I think the E10 is one of the best kept secrets on
the market today and it tickles me so... Underdog, naw... Regards,
Jim N AZ.

It's no secret. Many of us have tried it and left it because it was too noisy. While it is a nice camera, it would be cruel and unfair to compare it to any pro camera. You are happy with it because you either have never compared it with real pro camera's, or you don't mind consumer level noise in your pictures. But it's hardly a best kept secret. Perhaps the best kept secret is the level of noise the E10 produces.

Jim38540 said:
John Mason said:

It'll probably be more money - or not - competition for a 5.1 by
then could be stiff.

4 to 5.1 with 5 lenses - and a noiseless kodak sensor -lets call
it about an E13.

The nice thing is Olympus had a wonderful competitive oppourunity
with the OM series years ago, but never added autofocus, etc.

As an old time Olympus fan (I had a Pen F 1/2 frame and an OM1 and
OM2 over the years) it looks like Olympus is heading in the
direction of a pro type digital camera (the E10 is a big big step
in that direction). I just always liked their innovative clean
slate design approach. You see a lot of that philosophy in the
E10, no mirror, etc.

So, I'm kinda excited to see what more vaporware descriptions we
get of this camera. Well their be an actual Olympus lens line than
we can keep as we gradually upgrade the bodies over time. (thats
one of the reasons I haven't gotten any of the Aux lenses for the
E10. They seemed like a dead end for future cameras.)

Anyway - the E10 will always be a milestone camera - but I've been
tempted to move to a more pro digital - maybe now I'll just wait
and see what's coming from my underdog favorite camera brand.

Click to expand...

John Mason · Apr 27, 2001

Underdog being used as a symonym for your phrase "best kept secrets". Not because it was inferior. The lens on it is fantastic. You should see what people have to buy to get wide angle going on an adapted 35mm camera.

Jim N AZ. said:
John Mason said:

It'll probably be more money - or not - competition for a 5.1 by
then could be stiff.

4 to 5.1 with 5 lenses - and a noiseless kodak sensor -lets call
it about an E13.

The nice thing is Olympus had a wonderful competitive oppourunity
with the OM series years ago, but never added autofocus, etc.

As an old time Olympus fan (I had a Pen F 1/2 frame and an OM1 and
OM2 over the years) it looks like Olympus is heading in the
direction of a pro type digital camera (the E10 is a big big step
in that direction). I just always liked their innovative clean
slate design approach. You see a lot of that philosophy in the
E10, no mirror, etc.

So, I'm kinda excited to see what more vaporware descriptions we
get of this camera. Well their be an actual Olympus lens line than
we can keep as we gradually upgrade the bodies over time. (thats
one of the reasons I haven't gotten any of the Aux lenses for the
E10. They seemed like a dead end for future cameras.)

Anyway - the E10 will always be a milestone camera - but I've been
tempted to move to a more pro digital - maybe now I'll just wait
and see what's coming from my underdog favorite camera brand.

Click to expand...

John Mason · Apr 27, 2001

This is what I love about this forum. The link is the home page of this forum. That's why I posted this thread. Phil had put up the info on the home page for about an hour and no one had commented on it in the forum. It kinda cracked me up.

I think that's a real measure of how successful and fun this forum is to it's participants.

And here it's become one of the longest threads ever. You just never know!

My own personal take on it is that the Kodak sensors are much larger than the one the Olympus is currently using. So, even though the ccd by the fall of 2002 when it actually starts shipping will be small by competitive standards of that time, it will be a large improvement in terms of noise and ISO rating compared to the current sensor. Now, this current noise issue is overrated and you just about have to print a large 11x14 to see much of it. It's also easy to eliminate with Quantum Mechanics photoshop plug in if you need to. It may turn out since it appears this one will be interchangable lenses that the E10 may actually be the dust free choice.

I see no reason that Olympus -with their free thinking history and style - couldn't design a new type of modular lens system that keeps a small "directing" lens on the sealed body thus retaining the current dust free strengths of the E10.

George Harrison said:
Can you give me the link to this information please?

GH

Member said:

Theres a new post about a 5.1 MP Olympus coming out in Feb 2002!

Click to expand...

John Mason · Apr 27, 2001

I've been off forum since yesterday - see earlier answer to your same question above.

Sorry

Oh, the official annoucement date with specs and such will be Feb 2002. The first shipping cameras are rumored to be that fall or fall of 2002.

George Harrison said:
Can you give me the link to this information please?

GH

Member said:

Theres a new post about a 5.1 MP Olympus coming out in Feb 2002!

Click to expand...

John Mason · Apr 27, 2001

I agree with that. By Fall 2002 when it comes out I think 5.2 is going to be less than competitive. If it's a kodak sensor, the advantages will be better light sensitivity and lower noise. It will also require bigger (more expensive) glass.

My hope is that between now and spec's announcement in Feb they'll revise it to something in the 9 to 12 MP range. Another advantage we should be able to get is 12 bit instead of 10bit dynamic range.

(Italy trip in 2 weeks - I'll post lots of pics.)

Michael Luna said:
I don't know about you all but I'm getting exceptional quality from
my E-10 and making money from it at the same time. I have ad's for
my clients running in national magazines that look as good as the
things shot in medium film format sitting right next to them.

Frankly 5.1 megapixel does not bring enough to the table...I'm
waiting for a full 8 MP (11 x 17 @ 300dpi) before I make a change.
(Yes, it's true my E-10 is in for repair right now... a little
pixel fixin) but this is truly a remarkable camera and for all but
full 2 page spreads this camera does the trick!

John Mason said:

For those who live in the forum and never venture to the home page:

Theres a new post about a 5.1 MP Olympus coming out in Feb 2002!

With interchangable lenses!

OM2 days again!
--
John Mason - Lafayette, Indiana, USA

Click to expand...

John Mason · Apr 27, 2001

Why not a small - in the body - director lens sealing the ccd. The back part of the current lens performs that function. As long as the interchangable part is past the director part that would be a unique an logical solution. Since they are not married to an existing lens system, they could easily accomplish this if they simply made it a design requirement.

Frank B said:
Frank B

John Mason said:

For those who live in the forum and never venture to the home page:

Theres a new post about a 5.1 MP Olympus coming out in Feb 2002!

With interchangable lenses!

OM2 days again!
--
John Mason - Lafayette, Indiana, USA

Click to expand...

John Mason · Apr 27, 2001

I dunno - whats your 6 to 8 year old 486 computer worth now?

I tell ya though, I get great 8x10's right now with the E10. I'm not sure the extra pixels will make any difference at all unless your printing 11x14's and up.

You would think that their will be a leveling off at some point as the extra features or resolution doesn't result in a practical difference in the end result. But with computer type technology - which this is - there is such a push to better your competitor. We'll probably see a steady stream of new and improved for 50 years.

A Bushell said:
Alan.

John Mason said:

For those who live in the forum and never venture to the home page:

Theres a new post about a 5.1 MP Olympus coming out in Feb 2002!

With interchangable lenses!

OM2 days again!
--
John Mason - Lafayette, Indiana, USA

Click to expand...

John Mason · Apr 27, 2001

If olympus is smart, they will use the fact that they are not wedded to having to support an existing lens system. This would mean they could come out with a "director" lens just in front of the CCD as part of an optical seal/mounting system for the Interchangable lenses they'll be coming out with. I don't think they have any advantage of coming out with a camera to support the OM series lenses.

They would have a huge advantage over all the other competitors if they come out with a sealed system that still offered high-quality interchangable lenses. We'll see.

Also, you'll see much valid scuttlebut in many of the forums about how people are dreading the holy grail of the full-frame CCD. People are liking the lowered cost of long telephotos and don't want to see that go away. Olympus has the chance for a lot of advantages as they get to design their interchangable lenses with a clean slate without having to be stuck with a full-frame size CCd.

Greg said:
John you must have seen the news this morning 04-27-01 It's about
18 months away according to the new link. My question is will it
use the same len's as current 35 mm cameras or will it have a len's
mated for the 4/3" CCD?

John Mason wrote:
For those who live in the forum and never venture to the home page:
Theres a new post about a 5.1 MP Olympus coming out in Feb 2002!

John Mason · Apr 27, 2001

more fuel

aee said:
I'm alarmed that this thread may be slowing down so here's some
more fuel for the fire. Gotta keep it burning for the next year or
so....

http://www.imaging-resource.com/NEWS/988405084.html

John Mason · Apr 27, 2001

It is fun seeing an E10 thread on the home page helping advertise our favorite beastie.

aee said:
I'm alarmed that this thread may be slowing down so here's some
more fuel for the fire. Gotta keep it burning for the next year or
so....

http://www.imaging-resource.com/NEWS/988405084.html

John Mason · Apr 27, 2001

I think the key is what other people on other forums are already aware of. The 35mm size of CCD is not a "holy grail" as it always wastes space when you crop to popular formats and is needlessly large requiring more expensive and heavier glass. By those strong comments to commit the industry to a 4/3 size - if they can pull it off - means they are basically saying all the old Glass will become obsolete and new lens systems built around a smaller then 33mm sensor size is desirable. I would agree.

It certainly makes sense since Olympus has a clean slate to work with for a ground up interchangable system.

It does make you wonder if they looked around and said - wow - the E10 is a big hit. Now what do we do? Then they relize their oppourtunity to define the digital standards for the industry. Which if they do lets them leap frog the 33mm legacy based designs of Contax, Canon, Nikon, and Kodaks DSC series. The other makers can't do this without shooting themselves and their established customers in the foot.

Years from now we'll look back on the 4/3 sensor commitment and realize that decision is what put them on top of the industry. This is that kind of oppourtunity for them.

Jeff said:
Jeff

aee said:

I'm alarmed that this thread may be slowing down so here's some
more fuel for the fire. Gotta keep it burning for the next year or
so....

http://www.imaging-resource.com/NEWS/988405084.html

Click to expand...

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