J
jono slack
Guest
Hi Martin
Well judging by what I've read, I'd rather have an E-10!
kind regards
jono slack
Well judging by what I've read, I'd rather have an E-10!
kind regards
jono slack
-
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J
jono slack
Guest
Hi Rob
Well - I agree with you - absolutely, I don't want to see OLY make an interchangeable lense camera at 5 Mp - profoundly uninterested. If I want an interchangeable lense camera - I'll go to one of the manufacturers who have a number of cameras using the same range of lenses, and who have some degree of continuity
with less noise, (possibly a larger sensor), 6Mp and a wider angle lense - now we're talking.
But I doubt we'll get the continuity with the converter lenses - surely the reason they work so well is that they were designed to be 'part' of the existing lens when fitted. Surely any new lens will have different characteristics and will need different converters.
By replacing the E-10 with a new camera with a new range of interchangeable lenses, designed to match a specific size of CCD OLY will prove beyond doubt that they cannot be trusted to any sort of continuity, and that will be the best reason for transferring one's loyalty elsewhere.
kind regards
jono slack
(who still loves his E-10)
Well - I agree with you - absolutely, I don't want to see OLY make an interchangeable lense camera at 5 Mp - profoundly uninterested. If I want an interchangeable lense camera - I'll go to one of the manufacturers who have a number of cameras using the same range of lenses, and who have some degree of continuity
- and if I want more pixels, why stop at 5.
with less noise, (possibly a larger sensor), 6Mp and a wider angle lense - now we're talking.But I doubt we'll get the continuity with the converter lenses - surely the reason they work so well is that they were designed to be 'part' of the existing lens when fitted. Surely any new lens will have different characteristics and will need different converters.
By replacing the E-10 with a new camera with a new range of interchangeable lenses, designed to match a specific size of CCD OLY will prove beyond doubt that they cannot be trusted to any sort of continuity, and that will be the best reason for transferring one's loyalty elsewhere.
kind regards
jono slack
(who still loves his E-10)
J
jono slack
Guest
Hi Jeff
but if they're bringing out a new range of lenses - it isn't really feasible to think that they'll all have a 62mm front element . . . .is it. And I thought that the converters were designed specifically to match this lens. Designing a whole range of lenses to match a set of converters seems . . . . . a little far fetched?
I was hoping that the scenario you detailed was what was going to happen, but I think that the idea of interchangeable lenses negates the whole affair.
I'm not usually a depressive or negative type (I hope) - and I seem to be the only nay-sayer round here, but I don't think this sounds like a good move at all. I think we are all being dumped straight into the redundancy bucket . . . . . . . unless they have completely other plans for an E-11.
kind regards
jono slack
but if they're bringing out a new range of lenses - it isn't really feasible to think that they'll all have a 62mm front element . . . .is it. And I thought that the converters were designed specifically to match this lens. Designing a whole range of lenses to match a set of converters seems . . . . . a little far fetched?
I was hoping that the scenario you detailed was what was going to happen, but I think that the idea of interchangeable lenses negates the whole affair.
I'm not usually a depressive or negative type (I hope) - and I seem to be the only nay-sayer round here, but I don't think this sounds like a good move at all. I think we are all being dumped straight into the redundancy bucket . . . . . . . unless they have completely other plans for an E-11.
kind regards
jono slack
J
jono slack
Guest
Hi Alan
Good I'd say - a good camera is a good camera, and the E-10 is unquestionably a good camera. I'm just sad that it sounds like OLY is going to throw out the whole concept and replace it with a sub standard interchangeable lens slr.
And what's worth, it looks like everyone here is going to go for it.
kind regards
jono slack
Good I'd say - a good camera is a good camera, and the E-10 is unquestionably a good camera. I'm just sad that it sounds like OLY is going to throw out the whole concept and replace it with a sub standard interchangeable lens slr.
And what's worth, it looks like everyone here is going to go for it.
kind regards
jono slack
Rob Thompson
Active member
Good to hear from you Jono
Pleased that your thoughts are along the same lines as mine. As things stand, the only camera that I would be interested in from Olympus would be a "super" E10. This camera is so right in build, design and feel that it would be a crime for Oly to end it now. If they want to go play with the others in the Pro market then thats fine, it'll be way out of my league.
In a years time, 256 mb cf cards will be £50 so I would like more pixels. Most of the time it would be overkill, but think of those huge prints that would be available.
We all know what needs updating, less noise / higher useable ISO, higher shutter speeds, quicker in camera processing and display. If only they hadnt specified such a low price level, perhaps we wouldnt be seeing this as the replacement for the E10, just a dabble in the Pro market.
Still, all this speculation is fun and hopefully someone from Oly will read this and realise where the future for them could be in the Semi Pro / Enthusiast market. At the moment, they have me as a customer (despite thier pricing policy in the UK)! Now its upto them to keep me and a lot of others.
Rob
Still loving the E10 and spending on Oly products! (bought an FL 40 today!)
Pleased that your thoughts are along the same lines as mine. As things stand, the only camera that I would be interested in from Olympus would be a "super" E10. This camera is so right in build, design and feel that it would be a crime for Oly to end it now. If they want to go play with the others in the Pro market then thats fine, it'll be way out of my league.
In a years time, 256 mb cf cards will be £50 so I would like more pixels. Most of the time it would be overkill, but think of those huge prints that would be available.
We all know what needs updating, less noise / higher useable ISO, higher shutter speeds, quicker in camera processing and display. If only they hadnt specified such a low price level, perhaps we wouldnt be seeing this as the replacement for the E10, just a dabble in the Pro market.
Still, all this speculation is fun and hopefully someone from Oly will read this and realise where the future for them could be in the Semi Pro / Enthusiast market. At the moment, they have me as a customer (despite thier pricing policy in the UK)! Now its upto them to keep me and a lot of others.
Rob
Still loving the E10 and spending on Oly products! (bought an FL 40 today!)
On the other hand . . . . An E-11(E-20/D-10 whatever
- and if I want more pixels, why stop at 5.
noise, (possibly a larger sensor), 6Mp and a wider angle lense -
now we're talking.
But I doubt we'll get the continuity with the converter lenses -
surely the reason they work so well is that they were designed to
be 'part' of the existing lens when fitted. Surely any new lens
will have different characteristics and will need different
converters.
By replacing the E-10 with a new camera with a new range of
interchangeable lenses, designed to match a specific size of CCD
OLY will prove beyond doubt that they cannot be trusted to any sort
of continuity, and that will be the best reason for transferring
one's loyalty elsewhere.
kind regards
jono slack
(who still loves his E-10)
J
jono slack
Guest
Hi Rob
Phew! I thought I was the only one. I've had loads of cameras, and I can honestly say I've enjoyed the E-10 more than any other (with the possible exception of a Contax RTSII).
I'd hate to see them throw it all away copying the others!
Ah well
Kind Regards
jono slack
p.s. and those interchangeable lenses would cost twice as much here as anywhere else!
Phew! I thought I was the only one. I've had loads of cameras, and I can honestly say I've enjoyed the E-10 more than any other (with the possible exception of a Contax RTSII).
I'd hate to see them throw it all away copying the others!
Ah well
Kind Regards
jono slack
p.s. and those interchangeable lenses would cost twice as much here as anywhere else!
Pleased that your thoughts are along the same lines as mine. As
things stand, the only camera that I would be interested in from
Olympus would be a "super" E10. This camera is so right in build,
design and feel that it would be a crime for Oly to end it now. If
they want to go play with the others in the Pro market then thats
fine, it'll be way out of my league.
In a years time, 256 mb cf cards will be £50 so I would like more
pixels. Most of the time it would be overkill, but think of those
huge prints that would be available.
We all know what needs updating, less noise / higher useable ISO,
higher shutter speeds, quicker in camera processing and display. If
only they hadnt specified such a low price level, perhaps we
wouldnt be seeing this as the replacement for the E10, just a
dabble in the Pro market.
Still, all this speculation is fun and hopefully someone from Oly
will read this and realise where the future for them could be in
the Semi Pro / Enthusiast market. At the moment, they have me as a
customer (despite thier pricing policy in the UK)! Now its upto
them to keep me and a lot of others.
Rob
Still loving the E10 and spending on Oly products! (bought an FL 40
today!)
On the other hand . . . . An E-11(E-20/D-10 whatever
- and if I want more pixels, why stop at 5.
noise, (possibly a larger sensor), 6Mp and a wider angle lense -
now we're talking.
But I doubt we'll get the continuity with the converter lenses -
surely the reason they work so well is that they were designed to
be 'part' of the existing lens when fitted. Surely any new lens
will have different characteristics and will need different
converters.
By replacing the E-10 with a new camera with a new range of
interchangeable lenses, designed to match a specific size of CCD
OLY will prove beyond doubt that they cannot be trusted to any sort
of continuity, and that will be the best reason for transferring
one's loyalty elsewhere.
kind regards
jono slack
(who still loves his E-10)
Hi Jono,
A question if I may,
jono slack wrote:
"...it sounds like OLY is going to throw out the whole concept and replace it with a sub standard interchangeable lens slr."
Do you consider it to be sub-standard because of interchangeable lenses, or it is going to be sub-standard anyway, and interchangeable lenses just excaberate the issue? Also, what if the CCD is sealed? does that make a difference? If it was sealed (the CCD) and you had equivalent of E-10's lens, would that make it acceptable?
No offense/flame meant, I just like your work, and want to better understand your opinion.
Take care,
F.J.
A question if I may,
jono slack wrote:
"...it sounds like OLY is going to throw out the whole concept and replace it with a sub standard interchangeable lens slr."
Do you consider it to be sub-standard because of interchangeable lenses, or it is going to be sub-standard anyway, and interchangeable lenses just excaberate the issue? Also, what if the CCD is sealed? does that make a difference? If it was sealed (the CCD) and you had equivalent of E-10's lens, would that make it acceptable?
No offense/flame meant, I just like your work, and want to better understand your opinion.
Take care,
F.J.
Juno,
It's all a big guess. Oly was smart with the c-2020/c-3030 transition,
but this one does appear to be more profound. And if the E-10
was only a transition camera, then you're right, there would be no
reason to stick with Oly.
On the other hand, higher ISO, lower noise, more dynamic range
would be good. They'll also be processing more pixels, so you'd think
they'd have to invest in a new computation unit/firmware as well.
Regarding the converter lenses, there is a rather cryptic photo
on the Japanese site cited in Phi's report
I'd guess that we're talking about the third row of this table, the
one labeled "4/3 inch CCD". Don't know what to make of this.
Jeff
It's all a big guess. Oly was smart with the c-2020/c-3030 transition,
but this one does appear to be more profound. And if the E-10
was only a transition camera, then you're right, there would be no
reason to stick with Oly.
On the other hand, higher ISO, lower noise, more dynamic range
would be good. They'll also be processing more pixels, so you'd think
they'd have to invest in a new computation unit/firmware as well.
Regarding the converter lenses, there is a rather cryptic photo
on the Japanese site cited in Phi's report
I'd guess that we're talking about the third row of this table, the
one labeled "4/3 inch CCD". Don't know what to make of this.
Jeff
E
Erik Magnuson
Guest
Ain't enough for what? How many are "enough" and why?
If you don't have a large investment in existing lenses, why not buy Oly? Sure the lens range will never match Canon or Nikon, but that was true in the OM days as well.
Why do you want a bigger imager (as opposed to more pixels.)? The reason people want a bigger imagger on their Nikons or Canons is to get full frame coverage on their existing lenses (no multiplier). If you are designing lenses from scratch, this is not a factor.
IMHO, Oly is trying to reproduce their success in the OM series: a smaller, faster handling camera that will be good enough for all but the most specialized work.
--
Erik
J
jono slack
Guest
Hi Jeff
what a wonderful photo - definitely should win awards . . . . . . but what does it mean?
kind regards
jono slack
what a wonderful photo - definitely should win awards . . . . . . but what does it mean?
kind regards
jono slack
It's all a big guess. Oly was smart with the c-2020/c-3030 transition,
but this one does appear to be more profound. And if the E-10
was only a transition camera, then you're right, there would be no
reason to stick with Oly.
On the other hand, higher ISO, lower noise, more dynamic range
would be good. They'll also be processing more pixels, so you'd think
they'd have to invest in a new computation unit/firmware as well.
Regarding the converter lenses, there is a rather cryptic photo
on the Japanese site cited in Phi's report
I'd guess that we're talking about the third row of this table, the
one labeled "4/3 inch CCD". Don't know what to make of this.
Jeff
E
Erik Magnuson
Guest
How is the Tcon going to be useless in a matter of months? It will be just as useful then (on an E-10) as it is now (on an E-10.) Now it may not be MORE useful (e.g. fit the new camera as well), but I'd bet there will still be a current production camera that can use it even if that camera is no longer their top-of-the-line model.
--
Erik
J
jono slack
Guest
Hi FJ
No offence taken - I realise that I'm out of step here.
I don't have anything against interchangeable lenses per se (apart from the obvious reservations about dust).
Clearly I don't know exactly what OLY have in mind, but my thinking is something like the following:
The E-10 is a great concept, which has been really well realised (with a couple of gripes which we are all aware of). It could be advanced into a really wonderful semi-pro tool, great ergonomics, great portability, robust and with great results
Olympus don't have a very wonderful record in keeping up with the competition with respect interchangeable lenses, and they would now be starting with a new lens mount, and a brand new set of lenses, which were designed to match a 4/3" CCD.
I would question thier commitment and abililty to develop a set of 35mm lenses with a new lens mount, but to develop a non standard set of lenses - surely not.
If I were to consider buying a camera with interchangeable lenses (which I might) then I would undoubtedly go for one which already had lenses, and whose manufacturer had a track record of continuity.
I'm not naive enough to think that if Canon sell a plastic bodied semi-pro camera for twice as much as the E-10 (with a less well specified lens) and Nikon require even more money; then OLY can produce a metal bodied interchangeable lens camera, complete with lens for less than the E-10 - doesn't make sense to me.
Maybe I'm just paranoid - I'm certainly not planning on replacing my E-10 at the moment, but looking at it rationally, I'm pretty certain if I start looking at interchangeable lens cameras in 18months time, a 5Mp camera with a non standard lens system of questionable future just ain't going to cut the mustard.
If I'm sounding stroppy about this, it's a mirage, I really aint
kind regards
jono slack
No offence taken - I realise that I'm out of step here.
I don't have anything against interchangeable lenses per se (apart from the obvious reservations about dust).
Clearly I don't know exactly what OLY have in mind, but my thinking is something like the following:
The E-10 is a great concept, which has been really well realised (with a couple of gripes which we are all aware of). It could be advanced into a really wonderful semi-pro tool, great ergonomics, great portability, robust and with great results
Olympus don't have a very wonderful record in keeping up with the competition with respect interchangeable lenses, and they would now be starting with a new lens mount, and a brand new set of lenses, which were designed to match a 4/3" CCD.
I would question thier commitment and abililty to develop a set of 35mm lenses with a new lens mount, but to develop a non standard set of lenses - surely not.
If I were to consider buying a camera with interchangeable lenses (which I might) then I would undoubtedly go for one which already had lenses, and whose manufacturer had a track record of continuity.
I'm not naive enough to think that if Canon sell a plastic bodied semi-pro camera for twice as much as the E-10 (with a less well specified lens) and Nikon require even more money; then OLY can produce a metal bodied interchangeable lens camera, complete with lens for less than the E-10 - doesn't make sense to me.
Maybe I'm just paranoid - I'm certainly not planning on replacing my E-10 at the moment, but looking at it rationally, I'm pretty certain if I start looking at interchangeable lens cameras in 18months time, a 5Mp camera with a non standard lens system of questionable future just ain't going to cut the mustard.
If I'm sounding stroppy about this, it's a mirage, I really aint
kind regards
jono slack
E
Erik Magnuson
Guest
I think this chart is actually very simple. They are showing the complexity/capability of the type of lenses you need for each of the 4 formats: 35mm, 2/3 CCD, 4/3 CCD, and APS size CCD. They did this for two lenses: 10x zoom, 3x zoom.
The 1st row 35mm shows no 10x zoom (I assume it's too complex) and a rather complex 3x, F3.5 zoom (lot's of elements)
2nd row, 2/3"CCD, shows much simpler 10x and 3x F2.0 designs (C700 and C3040 perhaps). Note the length (5")
3rd row, 4/3" CCD, shows lenses that are just slightly slower and longer (F2.8 and 6")
4th row, APS size, shows the lenses get too long (8.5" and too slow F4)
I think the intent of this photos is to demonstrate why a 4/3" CCD is a "sweet spot" for this design. It allows a (hopefully desireable) compromise between lens size/performance.
--
Erik
J
jono slack
Guest
Hi Erik
I wouldn't buy because their record for continuity over the last 20 years isn't good
I wouldn't buy because if I was going to use such lenses I think that Nikon and Zeiss and Canon have more experience and would make them better
If they were so keen on this concept why didn't they keep with the OM system - go autofocus etc. etc. they just abandoned thier loyal user base and went determinedly down market.
Erik I may be quite wrong - bear in mind that I seem to be in a very small minority here, so I need to fight my corner with conviction!
kind regards
jono slack
Well, for printing A3 at 200 dpi native resolution (for example) - I do say 'if you want', but if you don't want, then I think that the 4 Mp we've got already is pretty fine.
I wouldn't buy OLY because they would just have dumped on me having spent a lot of money on the E-10 and assuming that it was going to develop.
I wouldn't buy because their record for continuity over the last 20 years isn't good
I wouldn't buy because if I was going to use such lenses I think that Nikon and Zeiss and Canon have more experience and would make them better
Well, again, I've put 'if you want' in - larger imagers, we are told, produce less noise, so that's a good reason - smaller ones allow neater lenses - and that's a good reason to have a smaller one. I'm fairly split on this one.
Well if that is what they are trying to do, then I think that's wonderful, but I think it's more likely that they are just trying to cash in on the huge market of 30 somethings who would previously have been buying one of the cheaper Nikon or Canon SLR's - nothing against that, but I think the E-10 is better than that.
If they were so keen on this concept why didn't they keep with the OM system - go autofocus etc. etc. they just abandoned thier loyal user base and went determinedly down market.
Erik I may be quite wrong - bear in mind that I seem to be in a very small minority here, so I need to fight my corner with conviction!
kind regards
jono slack
J
jono slack
Guest
Hi Erik
you got the key - I'm obviously very stupid tonight! It's a good argument - so why don't they put this CCD into an E-11 with a 24-240 lens on it? sounds fabulous to me!
low noise
lotsa pixels
same smashing handling
why throw all the cards in the air again?
kind regards
jono slack
you got the key - I'm obviously very stupid tonight! It's a good argument - so why don't they put this CCD into an E-11 with a 24-240 lens on it? sounds fabulous to me!
low noise
lotsa pixels
same smashing handling
why throw all the cards in the air again?
kind regards
jono slack
But what kind of development could they have done on the E-10? Wouldn't an E-10 follow-on worth paying for require a larger lens diameter and therefore new teleconverters? The E-10's 4 megapixels are crammed into a tiny 2/3" CCD. There is no room for growth (without more noise). Everyone knew that BEFORE buying an E-10. So I don't think anyone has been burned (or dumped on) in that respect.
J
jono slack
Guest
Hi aee
I'm not saying I've been dumped on - (actually, perhaps I did, but I didn't really mean it like that). I would have thought that they might have been able to fit a larger CCD in the E-10, an even better lens, faster preview, hmn hmn can't think of much else off the top of my head.
I agree about the converters - I can't see how they would work well with another lens - but you never know?
Anyway - hey - who said they weren't going to do this - they haven't said that this new camera is going to replace the E-10 have they?
I haven't meant to sound miserable about this, I was just responding to what seemed to me rather naive enthusiasm about what didn't sound like a frantically attractive proposition.
have a great evening
I'm heading bedwards (soon)
jono
I'm not saying I've been dumped on - (actually, perhaps I did, but I didn't really mean it like that). I would have thought that they might have been able to fit a larger CCD in the E-10, an even better lens, faster preview, hmn hmn can't think of much else off the top of my head.
I agree about the converters - I can't see how they would work well with another lens - but you never know?
Anyway - hey - who said they weren't going to do this - they haven't said that this new camera is going to replace the E-10 have they?
I haven't meant to sound miserable about this, I was just responding to what seemed to me rather naive enthusiasm about what didn't sound like a frantically attractive proposition.
have a great evening
I'm heading bedwards (soon)
jono
walter38787
Forum Enthusiast
How many acessory lenses do YOU have?? I have the tcon300 14B and hoysa +1, 2 and4 mags for now but that's $600-800 right there. You will always buy lenses to cover the range of shooting you do.
Walter
Walter
Cleave
Senior Member
Maybe I'm not in the right income bracket for this forum, but I just spent 1800 USD on this camera. In my 30 years of amateur photography, I've never spent this much for a camera (even if you account for inflation!). Not that I wouldn't spend this much again but I certainly won't do it in 12 months.
Believe me every product cycle of digital camera over the last 6 years has at least one model that I've lusted after but each new cycle brings a new object of desire. I will drool over the new Olympus when (or if) it comes out, but at this point I can't believe the number and size of posts on this thread! ;-)))
Thanks.
Cleave
Believe me every product cycle of digital camera over the last 6 years has at least one model that I've lusted after but each new cycle brings a new object of desire. I will drool over the new Olympus when (or if) it comes out, but at this point I can't believe the number and size of posts on this thread! ;-)))
Thanks.
Cleave
Juno,
We all should take a breather, after all this whole thread is apparently
based on what was said during a Kodak presentation on what Oly
is supposedly doing. Who knows if this is a rogue engineer, or marketer.
Surely Oly has to be upset.
The one thing is that the E10 has a big fat lens for its focal length.
Compare it to a Nikon 990, for example. So it wouldn't seem
unreasonable for them to be able to reuse the basic body design
with a new lens of longer focal length. Maybe this is nonsense,
but I just don't why one could rule it out at this point.
Hypothetically, Oly could really lay an egg on this one and alienate
current customers -- that seems to be technically feasible, and even
consistent with some past practice. On the other hand, they could
also produce a very nice product that improves the image quality
(reduced noise, higher ISO, 12bit, a modest resolution
improvement). Who knows?
Jeff
We all should take a breather, after all this whole thread is apparently
based on what was said during a Kodak presentation on what Oly
is supposedly doing. Who knows if this is a rogue engineer, or marketer.
Surely Oly has to be upset.
The one thing is that the E10 has a big fat lens for its focal length.
Compare it to a Nikon 990, for example. So it wouldn't seem
unreasonable for them to be able to reuse the basic body design
with a new lens of longer focal length. Maybe this is nonsense,
but I just don't why one could rule it out at this point.
Hypothetically, Oly could really lay an egg on this one and alienate
current customers -- that seems to be technically feasible, and even
consistent with some past practice. On the other hand, they could
also produce a very nice product that improves the image quality
(reduced noise, higher ISO, 12bit, a modest resolution
improvement). Who knows?
Jeff
I agree about the converters - I can't see how they would work well
with another lens - but you never know?
Anyway - hey - who said they weren't going to do this - they
haven't said that this new camera is going to replace the E-10 have
they?
I haven't meant to sound miserable about this, I was just
responding to what seemed to me rather naive enthusiasm about what
didn't sound like a frantically attractive proposition.
have a great evening
I'm heading bedwards (soon)
jono
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