Prosumer Cams and DSLRs

Aosh · Sep 19, 2004

After all the responses, I collected the most important reasons why I would want to buy a prosumer and the most imp reasons why I want a DSLR (there are many other reasons but these are the ones that affect me the most):

Prosumer:
LCD
Zoom range
weight
size

DSLR:
Silky smooth noise
DOF
faster focus (?)
bigger buffer (?)

My question is, is it not possible to combine these features together into a prosumer camera? Is it just cost prohibitive right now or is it technologically/physically impossible at this moment? In 5 years, will such a camera exist?

Bramante M Perkasa · Sep 19, 2004

Maybe in 5 years such camera will exist. Do remember that small pixel size (in micron) contributes to noise. Maybe in five years the noise level in prosumer cameras will be as little as in Digital SLRs today. But then again the Digital SLRs will have less noise.

Pixel size:

and my article about prosumer vs digital SLR can be downloaded from
http://www.geocities.com/bramanteperkasa/

Aosh said:
After all the responses, I collected the most important reasons why
I would want to buy a prosumer and the most imp reasons why I want
a DSLR (there are many other reasons but these are the ones that
affect me the most):

Prosumer:
LCD
Zoom range
weight
size

DSLR:
Silky smooth noise
DOF
faster focus (?)
bigger buffer (?)

My question is, is it not possible to combine these features
together into a prosumer camera? Is it just cost prohibitive right
now or is it technologically/physically impossible at this moment?
In 5 years, will such a camera exist?

Cryptnotic · Sep 19, 2004

You can either rig the 828 to move the hot mirror out of the way, making it into a full-time infrared camera or you can use ND filters so you can use NightShot mode during the day.

You can't really do that with the Digital Rebel.

(acutally, I doubt that that is a mainstream idea.)

I really think that 2004 was the "year of the digital SLR" with the DigiRebel and the Nikon D70. 2005 will see an increase, I think. Especially once more people compare the image quality from these cameras versus 5--7 megapixel all-in-one digicams.

--

Using a UV filter on a lens is like wearing a condom during sex. If you had to pay for it, you want protection.

Aosh · Sep 19, 2004

How big of an issue is dust on the 300D? And how do you know if there's dust?

rennie12 · Sep 19, 2004

Member said:
Lin Evans wrote:
Who really knows what the future holds - all we can do is simply
guess based on what we know today.

Especially when considering things involving computers - and digital cameras sure are that !

IBM once stated that the maximum market for the entire life of their new miniature personal computer would be 100,000 units. (IBM "clones" run over 100 million a year these days...)

Bill Gates once wrote "Nobody will ever have a use for more than 512 MB of RAM."

Even the world's greatest miss on computer futures...

Tim the Grey · Sep 20, 2004

The sensor is fixed. If dust gets in when you remove the lens, to change it, dust can cover some pixels.

One of the reasons I went with E1 is that EVERY time I power up, it cleans the sensor itself...
I don't have any issues with dust. Period.

Tim

Aosh said:
How big of an issue is dust on the 300D? And how do you know if
there's dust?

TrapperJohn · Sep 20, 2004

The most often cited reason I've heard is size, followed closely by weight.

These are people who want photography to be as unobtrusive as possible. The film shaped DSLR camera can be somewhat bulky and awkward to carry, to people who have not been using film SLRs.

The high end P&S cameras approach, but really don't exceed, the lower tier DSLRs. There is no performance increase, unless you value a noisy 8mp over a clean 6mp. If you have no objection to the film SLR body shape, then there is no advantage to you in buying a P&S.

And personally, I would not regard an LCD viewfinder to be an advantage. At least not what they turn out these days. Too fuzzy, too slow to respond. Give me an optical viewfinder, any day.

Lin Evans · Sep 20, 2004

TrapperJohn said:
snip
And personally, I would not regard an LCD viewfinder to be an
advantage. At least not what they turn out these days. Too fuzzy,
too slow to respond. Give me an optical viewfinder, any day.

It depends a great deal on what you're trying to do. If you're shooting super macro's of insects, with a dSLR you need to nearly stand on your head at times even with accessory viewfinders, and often the insect won't stay still long enough for you to get a focus lock, especially if your face is within a few inches of the subject. With the LCD you can keep a comfortable distance from the insect (bee, wasp, etc.,) and still get great shots.

There are tools for every purpose, and the fixed lens digicam with EVF and LCD serves a valid need.

Lin

Anastigmat · Oct 3, 2004

Aosh said:
Simple question:

Why do people buy prosumer cams?

Beats me. It doesn't make any sense to me. I compare these cameras in the store and they are practically the same size and price, but the digicams are so much more limited than the DSLR.

Aosh said:
For example why would a person
choose to buy the Sony F828 over Canon Drebel? Price wise they're
almost identical (amazon.com has the Drebel w/ lens kit for $835,
newegg.com incidentally is selling the F828 for same exact price)
I'm not trying to sound condescending at all, I really don't know.
I'm currently thinking of buying a nice camera, and these are the
only things I can gather:

Prosumer pros:
LCD view finder
No need to "worry" about diff lens

Anything else??

Can't think of any.

erichK · Oct 3, 2004

Aosh said:
Simple question:

Why do people buy prosumer cams? For example why would a person
choose to buy the Sony F828 over Canon Drebel? Price wise they're
almost identical (amazon.com has the Drebel w/ lens kit for $835,
newegg.com incidentally is selling the F828 for same exact price)
I'm not trying to sound condescending at all, I really don't know.
I'm currently thinking of buying a nice camera, and these are the
only things I can gather:

Prosumer pros:
LCD view finder
No need to "worry" about diff lens

Anything else??

I bought an Oly C5050z because
1) I wanted to get into digital
2) for underwater photography

The Oly housing and camera cost considerably less than just a housing for my Nikon F80 would have cost. I'm now considering upgrading to an Oly 8080 or possibly a Nikon 8800.
1) because the constitute a simple, compact, take-anywhere package

2) because they end up costing much less than most DSLR's once lenses and accesories are factored in

3) because they represent a smaller rapidly depreciating investment in a hectic, chaotic, escalating whilrwind of constant obsolescence.

erichk

--
erichK

Rich K · Oct 4, 2004

Huh??? The current crop of 8 mp prosumers is weighing in around 600 g, with the exception of the (IMHO) idiotic design of the Sony 828. Even the smallest (and most cheaply made) of the dslr's are weighing in about the same but for the body only. Put a couple of lenses in the bag and you're talking about 1.5 kg. Walk up and down the mountains around where I live for a few hours and you'll find that "practically the same size" is a real relative term!

I would also concur with others who note that "limited" is also a relative term. I lust after a newer, smaller dslr (like the Pentax or Oly) but I readily admit that an Oly 8080 is perfectly adequate for 85% of what I do.

Anastigmat said:
Beats me. It doesn't make any sense to me. I compare these
cameras in the store and they are practically the same size and
price, but the digicams are so much more limited than the DSLR.

Jay Turberville · Oct 4, 2004

Rich K said:
Huh??? The current crop of 8 mp prosumers is weighing in around
600 g, with the exception of the (IMHO) idiotic design of the Sony
828. Even the smallest (and most cheaply made) of the dslr's are
weighing in about the same but for the body only. Put a couple of
lenses in the bag and you're talking about 1.5 kg. Walk up and
down the mountains around where I live for a few hours and you'll
find that "practically the same size" is a real relative term!

I would also concur with others who note that "limited" is also a
relative term. I lust after a newer, smaller dslr (like the Pentax
or Oly) but I readily admit that an Oly 8080 is perfectly adequate
for 85% of what I do.

Exactly. Apparently Anastigmat is unable to understand why someone would want:

A camera much smaller and lighter than a DSLR and lens but also takes 8Mp images silently with no mirror vibration.

Multi-angle finder and the ability to take pictures by not pressing the camera to your face.

As already outlined in this thread, each class has it advantages and disadvantages. Traditionally, an SLR was a system camera and was therefore almost always a more versatile option. But its just not that simple any more. Some of the digicams also have "systems" that can further expand their existing versatility. Which is the more "limited" form has everything to do with what you want to do with it.

Rich K said:
Anastigmat said:

Beats me. It doesn't make any sense to me. I compare these
cameras in the store and they are practically the same size and
price, but the digicams are so much more limited than the DSLR.

Click to expand...

--
Jay Turberville
http://www.jayandwanda.com

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Prosumer Cams and DSLRs

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