Nikon robs itself?

baruth · Sep 16, 2004

I personnally like the new D2x. It looks great and practical. Its specs are ingenious. However, I can't help but thiinking about the d2H. Who would need the D2h with 8fps and only 4MP when the D2X can deliver 8fps at 6MP? that of course in extra to the 5fps at 12MP.
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Mike in Fla. · Sep 16, 2004

vernix · Sep 16, 2004

The D2X uses the 2H body and all things electronic continue to get cheaper for less.
Making more of the body should make the unit cost less.

If nikon dropped the street price to,say, $2400 nothing on the market could touch it on a feature/price ratio. Very plausable IMHO?
My 2H is gonna drop value but what doesn't? I knew that when I bought it.

If this comes to pass the 2X would bolster, not kill the 2H. At least for those individuals who have enough gonadal fortitude to lower themselves to shoot with a paultry 4.1MP

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tallone6ft5 · Sep 16, 2004

One potential thing about the rumoured hardware upgrade to the D2H might be that Nikon could be merging the manufacturing line of the body for both the H and X line. Doesn't make sense to have two pro model bodies that vary so little, why not just make them the same to cut costs.

A camera body is a camera body. The internal parts is what would still be different on each of the camera lines. Just a thought.

vernix · Sep 16, 2004

Agreed, but this is one for the marketing gurus I suspect. I'm not at all skilled in marketing.

The very large gap(as yet speculation,of course) between the D200 and D2X leaves a lot of room for a Nikon product.

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I may disagree with everything you say, but will defend unto death your right to say it. - Voltaire

Do not, however, mistake this for wilingness on my part to listen. - Anonymous

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Jason Busch · Sep 16, 2004

Nikon implemented the 8fps / 6.8MP for a reason. It could be they are making the D2x an all-in-one shooter. Nikon even says as much in their brochures.

If the D2x does really well with noise issues at ISO 800, and if Nikon adds a few ISO boost options, then the D2h is going to be extinct, and rather soon.

But this all hinges on the image quality of the D2x. A 4MP DSLR vs. a 12MP DSLR, is almost a no-brainer, and if I owned a D2h, I'd sell that sucker ASAP if the D2x ends up being as great as some of you hope it is.

Nikon may have even hindered the D2x's ISO because they knew D2h owners would be debating this very thing. If Nikon keeps the ISO 800 without any ISO increase, then it makes D2h owners set still for at least until image quality samples are released and actual ownership experiences are telling the story.

Technology can break you, or it can make you. I simply see a camera as a tool (I once saw it as a loyalty icon like so many currently do), and if the D2x can do what the D2h can, then so be it.

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hmac · Sep 16, 2004

This question keeps coming up. It seems that those asking it believe that the D2H and D2X are going to be priced at the same level.

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Ron Frank · Sep 16, 2004

There is really no reason for most PJ's to require much over 4mpix for most of their work.

The prints I see in the news papers, and even the rags sometimes are dismal.... I seriously doubt that is the photographers fault, but lets face it, high volume news is not worried about creating the perfect result when printing wallet sized images in B&w to accompany a page E500 story...

They spend more time on the front page, however I've seen some very OOF color front page prints (olympics comes to mind) and I'm seriously betting that the original image was in focus. The PJ is just happy for the exposure and paycheck, and if papers can not even bother to get their stuff right for printing do you think they are complaining about not having enough resolution in a files that easily make great 11x14s image at 200dpi on fine photo quality paper?

The D2H will drop in price, and I'm betting the D2x is going to be more expensive than most of us would like. The d2x also is going to be even harder to use for WA a 8fps.

I know PJ's that are working with d1's without problem... so....

Ron

paulfrye · Sep 16, 2004

Consider that you are at the finish line of a track meet. You need the fast 8 fps to get your photo. You've decided to use the 12-24 because you want to be up close, wide, and personal.

Oops...The D2X is 2x at 8fps. That means that darn 12 aint going to be very wide (more like a 35mm film 24mm lens), right? Take out your d2h and you've got that wide angle shot that you want...and you also get 40 frames in the buffer instead of 26 and you didn't have to play with the way the shot looks in your viewfinder, either.

Regards,

Paul

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vernix · Sep 16, 2004

If they are priced at,speculatively, $2500 and $4500 they would be far from a no brainer.

The last 3 PJ pros I have interacted with were shooting with a 1D,D1X and D1H(in a city of 1.5 million, not backwater).

Correct me if I'm wrong but $2000 is highly significant money to more than a few photo pros. To state it for the 2.5 millionth time 4.1 MP is all most need.

Also, most PJ's are sleeping rather than ringing their hands over 12MP gear here at midnight.

. A 4MP DSLR vs.

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psd · Sep 16, 2004

If we can just convince enough D2h owners that their camera is now no good we may be able to drive the D2h price down to my level.....

I have been drooling over this camera since its release. I love my D70, but.......
D2h owners, your D2h is holding you back, sell it & get the D2x....
Now if only there was something new to replace the 200-400VR......drooool.

jebitese · Sep 16, 2004

Your logic is totally nonsense... How come you have pinned it while Nikon didn't?

Nikon know what they're doing... but I just don't understand this post. Why are you so all worried about Nikon's marketing?

tony field · Sep 16, 2004

True. In addition, in spite of the fact that the D2h has a relative large image in the viewfinder, the 2x crop lines will be "relatively small". The working sports photographer needing 8fps may get tired and confused by the frame for the 2x during a long game.....

However, I suspect that many folks will find the overall package with the possibility of hi-res and lower res high frame rate to be an excellent mechanism providing he does not need high frame rate on a consistent basis.

My sports and dance images tend to be used for publication, posters and sale to the participants. Dance (generally) does not need motor drive images. My skating images, when motor drive is used, seem to work out better at 4 to 6 frames per second rather than 8. In these cases, I would prefer pixel count compared to frame rate. I have no problem printing poster from my D1 (2.7 mpix) but the images from the D1x or D2h are visibly better on a normal poster. Obviously, your mileage will vary...

tony
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Otel Garcia · Sep 17, 2004

thys1 · Sep 17, 2004

Not really - One (or more) of the following reasons:
1. The d2h was only a stop-gap measure.
2. The d2h (and lbcast) was a failed experiment.
3. The d2h was never a runaway success anyway

4. The d2h was never meant to be a pro camera but rather an advanced amateur model(See 1.)

5. In their effort to catch up with Canon that they don't mind killing off one of their own models in the process. (They have done it before with the d70-d100, but, at least, the d100 was an old model already)

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Michael in Atlanta · Sep 17, 2004

First of all as a D2h owner I don't want a 2x crop factor to get 8fps and I don't really need 12 MP for what I shoot. The one thing that I have not seen anyone mention about the D2x: can you imagine the file size? 1 GB CF cards will be a necessity not a luxury for this camera. I can still use some older 128 cards in my D2h and get 70-80 shots. Let's not even get into the extra hard drive space you will need on your computer to store them or the memory upgrade you will need to process in Photoshop.

For wildlife photography the D2x will be a real winner. D2x + 200 F/2 = 400 F/2 WOW! I can see Moose Peterson being all over that baby.

I will probably eventually pick up a D2x to replace my D1x just so I don't have to carry around 2 types of batteries, 2 battery chargers and a Digital Camera Battery.

One last point. Did the introduction of the 1D MkII cause the 1D value to drop? Before the Mk II a used 1D went for $2300-2800.00. Even today the 1D is still going for $2200-2600.00. I think the D2h will hold its value just as well. My D2h is just as fine a camera today as it was on Wednesday.

Just my .02
Michael

jb_va2001 · Sep 17, 2004

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