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Prosumer Cams and DSLRs

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Aosh

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Simple question:

Why do people buy prosumer cams? For example why would a person choose to buy the Sony F828 over Canon Drebel? Price wise they're almost identical (amazon.com has the Drebel w/ lens kit for $835, newegg.com incidentally is selling the F828 for same exact price) I'm not trying to sound condescending at all, I really don't know. I'm currently thinking of buying a nice camera, and these are the only things I can gather:

Prosumer pros:
LCD view finder
No need to "worry" about diff lens

Anything else??
 
For a Prosumer, the CCD is smaller therefore the lens can be made smaller and more compact. Then you can get good image quality over the whole range of the zoom lens. Thus, cheaper, compact, lighter, good quality over the whole range.

As for DSLR, the sensors are larger (> APS-C) and therefore, the lenses are larger for Zooms. You cannot find a 10x zoom lense that is relatively inexpensive and produces good quality images over the whole zoom range.

That's one reason why people go for "HASSLE FREE" prosumers rather than DSLR.

However, a DSLR gives you soooo much more flexible, higher ISO, Speed, focussing, different lenses for different purposes, shallower DOF, etc.

IMHO, if you don't mind switching lenses, a DSLR is a better option.
Aosh said:
Simple question:

Why do people buy prosumer cams? For example why would a person
choose to buy the Sony F828 over Canon Drebel? Price wise they're
almost identical (amazon.com has the Drebel w/ lens kit for $835,
newegg.com incidentally is selling the F828 for same exact price)
I'm not trying to sound condescending at all, I really don't know.
I'm currently thinking of buying a nice camera, and these are the
only things I can gather:

Prosumer pros:
LCD view finder
No need to "worry" about diff lens

Anything else??
Click to expand...
 
Ah ok, that makes sense. I think for me..I simply cannot stand noise. Pet peeve perhaps? But I can spot the diff b/w a prosumer and DSLR image very easily. The thought of having to buy many diff lens does bother me since I know very little about that and it seems cumbersome, especially since I plan on taking my camera with me on backpacking trips (saving weight would be nice).
YY said:
As for DSLR, the sensors are larger (> APS-C) and therefore, the
lenses are larger for Zooms. You cannot find a 10x zoom lense that
is relatively inexpensive and produces good quality images over the
whole zoom range.

That's one reason why people go for "HASSLE FREE" prosumers rather
than DSLR.

However, a DSLR gives you soooo much more flexible, higher ISO,
Speed, focussing, different lenses for different purposes,
shallower DOF, etc.

IMHO, if you don't mind switching lenses, a DSLR is a better option.
Aosh said:
Simple question:

Why do people buy prosumer cams? For example why would a person
choose to buy the Sony F828 over Canon Drebel? Price wise they're
almost identical (amazon.com has the Drebel w/ lens kit for $835,
newegg.com incidentally is selling the F828 for same exact price)
I'm not trying to sound condescending at all, I really don't know.
I'm currently thinking of buying a nice camera, and these are the
only things I can gather:

Prosumer pros:
LCD view finder
No need to "worry" about diff lens

Anything else??
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
Actually, it seems that the F828 is heavier than the 300D. But I'm assuming the weight of the 300D is not including lens - probably avg out to be around the same?

So bottom line is that prosumers have a larger range of zoom?

On a side note, why is it that it seems very few DSLRs have image stabilization?
YY said:
As for DSLR, the sensors are larger (> APS-C) and therefore, the
lenses are larger for Zooms. You cannot find a 10x zoom lense that
is relatively inexpensive and produces good quality images over the
whole zoom range.

That's one reason why people go for "HASSLE FREE" prosumers rather
than DSLR.

However, a DSLR gives you soooo much more flexible, higher ISO,
Speed, focussing, different lenses for different purposes,
shallower DOF, etc.

IMHO, if you don't mind switching lenses, a DSLR is a better option.
Aosh said:
Simple question:

Why do people buy prosumer cams? For example why would a person
choose to buy the Sony F828 over Canon Drebel? Price wise they're
almost identical (amazon.com has the Drebel w/ lens kit for $835,
newegg.com incidentally is selling the F828 for same exact price)
I'm not trying to sound condescending at all, I really don't know.
I'm currently thinking of buying a nice camera, and these are the
only things I can gather:

Prosumer pros:
LCD view finder
No need to "worry" about diff lens

Anything else??
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
I went from an early prosumer Fuji s602 to the 300D.

With the 300D, I have added in terms of lenses

Sigma 70-300 APO - 500-600g
Canon 50mm 1.8 - Light
Sigma 18-125mm - 360g
Canon 18-55mm - 300g
Flash

The 300D is say 500-600g

So lens (depending on which one) + 300 could become heavy. Furthermore, so far from what I have collected, I have spent more than the price of the 828.

If you purchase Canon L lenses, they are well over 500g for zooms so therefore you would be carrying 1kg which I believe would be heavier than a Sony 828.

Canon and Nikons have IS in some of their lenses. That would weigh an additional 200-300 g plus extra $$.

The soon to be released minolta will have Anti-shake and so, the IS will be in the body.

So DOES PROSUMERS HAVE LARGER ZOOMS?

YES and NO coz you can buy a BIGMA - 50mm-500mm which is longer than the 828 but heavier and more $$.
Aosh said:
So bottom line is that prosumers have a larger range of zoom?

On a side note, why is it that it seems very few DSLRs have image
stabilization?
YY said:
As for DSLR, the sensors are larger (> APS-C) and therefore, the
lenses are larger for Zooms. You cannot find a 10x zoom lense that
is relatively inexpensive and produces good quality images over the
whole zoom range.

That's one reason why people go for "HASSLE FREE" prosumers rather
than DSLR.

However, a DSLR gives you soooo much more flexible, higher ISO,
Speed, focussing, different lenses for different purposes,
shallower DOF, etc.

IMHO, if you don't mind switching lenses, a DSLR is a better option.
Aosh said:
Simple question:

Why do people buy prosumer cams? For example why would a person
choose to buy the Sony F828 over Canon Drebel? Price wise they're
almost identical (amazon.com has the Drebel w/ lens kit for $835,
newegg.com incidentally is selling the F828 for same exact price)
I'm not trying to sound condescending at all, I really don't know.
I'm currently thinking of buying a nice camera, and these are the
only things I can gather:

Prosumer pros:
LCD view finder
No need to "worry" about diff lens

Anything else??
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
Pardon me for my ignorance... But what is an good lens to start out with for the 300D? I'm sure this topic has been covered many times (I really should check out the lens forum). I'm kinda interested in what kind of range of zoom a "starter" lens will offer and for around what weight since we're comparing to prosumer cams?
YY said:
With the 300D, I have added in terms of lenses

Sigma 70-300 APO - 500-600g
Canon 50mm 1.8 - Light
Sigma 18-125mm - 360g
Canon 18-55mm - 300g
Flash

The 300D is say 500-600g

So lens (depending on which one) + 300 could become heavy.
Furthermore, so far from what I have collected, I have spent more
than the price of the 828.

If you purchase Canon L lenses, they are well over 500g for zooms
so therefore you would be carrying 1kg which I believe would be
heavier than a Sony 828.

Canon and Nikons have IS in some of their lenses. That would weigh
an additional 200-300 g plus extra $$.

The soon to be released minolta will have Anti-shake and so, the IS
will be in the body.

So DOES PROSUMERS HAVE LARGER ZOOMS?

YES and NO coz you can buy a BIGMA - 50mm-500mm which is longer
than the 828 but heavier and more $$.
Aosh said:
So bottom line is that prosumers have a larger range of zoom?

On a side note, why is it that it seems very few DSLRs have image
stabilization?
YY said:
As for DSLR, the sensors are larger (> APS-C) and therefore, the
lenses are larger for Zooms. You cannot find a 10x zoom lense that
is relatively inexpensive and produces good quality images over the
whole zoom range.

That's one reason why people go for "HASSLE FREE" prosumers rather
than DSLR.

However, a DSLR gives you soooo much more flexible, higher ISO,
Speed, focussing, different lenses for different purposes,
shallower DOF, etc.

IMHO, if you don't mind switching lenses, a DSLR is a better option.
Aosh said:
Simple question:

Why do people buy prosumer cams? For example why would a person
choose to buy the Sony F828 over Canon Drebel? Price wise they're
almost identical (amazon.com has the Drebel w/ lens kit for $835,
newegg.com incidentally is selling the F828 for same exact price)
I'm not trying to sound condescending at all, I really don't know.
I'm currently thinking of buying a nice camera, and these are the
only things I can gather:

Prosumer pros:
LCD view finder
No need to "worry" about diff lens

Anything else??
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
You really should goto the 300D and Canon Lens forum and use the search.

There are many many choices.

The 828 is a 28-200 at 906g

A 300D + Sigma 18-125mm (which is actually 29-200mm when converted with the crop factor) would be my choice.

In weight, the above would be 645g + 385g = 1030g

However, if you do not need such a long lense there are many other choices.

Furthermore, there are other choices like the Nikon D70 + the 17-75mm kit lens.
Aosh said:
YY said:
With the 300D, I have added in terms of lenses

Sigma 70-300 APO - 500-600g
Canon 50mm 1.8 - Light
Sigma 18-125mm - 360g
Canon 18-55mm - 300g
Flash

The 300D is say 500-600g

So lens (depending on which one) + 300 could become heavy.
Furthermore, so far from what I have collected, I have spent more
than the price of the 828.

If you purchase Canon L lenses, they are well over 500g for zooms
so therefore you would be carrying 1kg which I believe would be
heavier than a Sony 828.

Canon and Nikons have IS in some of their lenses. That would weigh
an additional 200-300 g plus extra $$.

The soon to be released minolta will have Anti-shake and so, the IS
will be in the body.

So DOES PROSUMERS HAVE LARGER ZOOMS?

YES and NO coz you can buy a BIGMA - 50mm-500mm which is longer
than the 828 but heavier and more $$.
Aosh said:
So bottom line is that prosumers have a larger range of zoom?

On a side note, why is it that it seems very few DSLRs have image
stabilization?
YY said:
As for DSLR, the sensors are larger (> APS-C) and therefore, the
lenses are larger for Zooms. You cannot find a 10x zoom lense that
is relatively inexpensive and produces good quality images over the
whole zoom range.

That's one reason why people go for "HASSLE FREE" prosumers rather
than DSLR.

However, a DSLR gives you soooo much more flexible, higher ISO,
Speed, focussing, different lenses for different purposes,
shallower DOF, etc.

IMHO, if you don't mind switching lenses, a DSLR is a better option.
Aosh said:
Simple question:

Why do people buy prosumer cams? For example why would a person
choose to buy the Sony F828 over Canon Drebel? Price wise they're
almost identical (amazon.com has the Drebel w/ lens kit for $835,
newegg.com incidentally is selling the F828 for same exact price)
I'm not trying to sound condescending at all, I really don't know.
I'm currently thinking of buying a nice camera, and these are the
only things I can gather:

Prosumer pros:
LCD view finder
No need to "worry" about diff lens

Anything else??
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
Personally I recomend you to check out nikon d70. Around $800 without lense. then try a nikon 50mm f/1.8 around $70 and a nikon 70-300mm f/4.5-5.6 at around $90.The 50mm takes professional quality picture and it works well under pretty low light. the 70-300 covers up your zoom range and it is another extremely good lense that works like a professional lense. after experimenting with that, I'm pretty sure you'll get addicted to the quality you can get. Anyway, I'm not as familiar with the canon system but I'm pretty sure they have a similar offers. hope this helps.

BTW. DSLR is way way better than any prosumer unless you just want a point and shoot.

josiah was here
 
I'll go for a DSLR soon, but I envy the compact stills video mode, compactness, live preview of exposure (actual image, not only histogram), flip out display, exist more products to choose from.

The F828 fail on compactness though :-) but have usable video mode.
Aosh said:
Simple question:

Why do people buy prosumer cams? For example why would a person
choose to buy the Sony F828 over Canon Drebel? Price wise they're
almost identical (amazon.com has the Drebel w/ lens kit for $835,
newegg.com incidentally is selling the F828 for same exact price)
I'm not trying to sound condescending at all, I really don't know.
I'm currently thinking of buying a nice camera, and these are the
only things I can gather:

Prosumer pros:
LCD view finder
No need to "worry" about diff lens

Anything else??
Click to expand...
--
Henrik
 
Hmm, other bennefits of digicams:

No dust on sensor. And you attach the teleconverter and wideconverter in front of the lens without removing the lens.

I guess you don't have to loose stops with teleconverters that way.
Henrik Andersson said:
The F828 fail on compactness though :-) but have usable video mode.
Aosh said:
Simple question:

Why do people buy prosumer cams? For example why would a person
choose to buy the Sony F828 over Canon Drebel? Price wise they're
almost identical (amazon.com has the Drebel w/ lens kit for $835,
newegg.com incidentally is selling the F828 for same exact price)
I'm not trying to sound condescending at all, I really don't know.
I'm currently thinking of buying a nice camera, and these are the
only things I can gather:

Prosumer pros:
LCD view finder
No need to "worry" about diff lens

Anything else??
Click to expand...
--
Henrik
Click to expand...
--
Henrik
 
Maybe because they don't know, that the 8MP prosumercams can only produce moderately acceptable noise levels at ISO 56/64?
Aosh said:
Simple question:

Why do people buy prosumer cams? For example why would a person
choose to buy the Sony F828 over Canon Drebel? Price wise they're
almost identical (amazon.com has the Drebel w/ lens kit for $835,
newegg.com incidentally is selling the F828 for same exact price)
I'm not trying to sound condescending at all, I really don't know.
I'm currently thinking of buying a nice camera, and these are the
only things I can gather:

Prosumer pros:
LCD view finder
No need to "worry" about diff lens

Anything else??
Click to expand...
 
Because the great unwashed Joe Public, they want Kodaks original advertising slogan!

"You push the button. We'll do the rest"

It's been that way for nearly a century. MOST people with cameras want point and shoot. Less bulk, less weight, and mostly, less complicated.

They do not care about image quality. Yes, REALLY!

They want something they could print to 5x7, maybe 10x8, and email to Auntie Bessie.

That is the BULK of the digital market.

DSLR is a NICHE product, and it always will be.

Tim (Who owns a niche product)
Aosh said:
Simple question:

Why do people buy prosumer cams? For example why would a person
choose to buy the Sony F828 over Canon Drebel? Price wise they're
almost identical (amazon.com has the Drebel w/ lens kit for $835,
newegg.com incidentally is selling the F828 for same exact price)
I'm not trying to sound condescending at all, I really don't know.
I'm currently thinking of buying a nice camera, and these are the
only things I can gather:

Prosumer pros:
LCD view finder
No need to "worry" about diff lens

Anything else??
Click to expand...
 
Henrik Andersson said:
I'll go for a DSLR soon, but I envy the compact stills video mode,
compactness, live preview of exposure (actual image, not only
histogram), flip out display, exist more products to choose from.
Click to expand...
What do you mean by live preview of exposure? Don't DSLRs have this?
 
Tim the Grey said:
Because the great unwashed Joe Public, they want Kodaks original
advertising slogan!

"You push the button. We'll do the rest"

It's been that way for nearly a century. MOST people with cameras
want point and shoot. Less bulk, less weight, and mostly, less
complicated.

They do not care about image quality. Yes, REALLY!

They want something they could print to 5x7, maybe 10x8, and email
to Auntie Bessie.

That is the BULK of the digital market.

DSLR is a NICHE product, and it always will be.
Click to expand...
You're right..I forgot that learning how to operate a camera didn't come overnight. But then, DSLRs also have P mode =P
 
Size, convenience, bigger zoom, less work, only need 8' x 10" prints, don't print at home, shall I go on? Different strokes for different folks, look at the cars people buy.
Skipper494.
Aosh said:
Simple question:

Why do people buy prosumer cams? For example why would a person
choose to buy the Sony F828 over Canon Drebel? Price wise they're
almost identical (amazon.com has the Drebel w/ lens kit for $835,
newegg.com incidentally is selling the F828 for same exact price)
I'm not trying to sound condescending at all, I really don't know.
I'm currently thinking of buying a nice camera, and these are the
only things I can gather:

Prosumer pros:
LCD view finder
No need to "worry" about diff lens

Anything else??
Click to expand...
 
I've watched friends & co-workers shop and they thought they want a DSLR but then got hung up over the fact that DSLR's don't have visual LCD preview and no movie mode. These are all casual users and for them prosumer is probably a better choice anyway. Those that ended up buying DSLR's wanted the responsiveness and interchangeable lens. Also they already had a film SLR and wanted to use some of the lens.
Aosh said:
Simple question:

Why do people buy prosumer cams? For example why would a person
choose to buy the Sony F828 over Canon Drebel? Price wise they're
almost identical (amazon.com has the Drebel w/ lens kit for $835,
newegg.com incidentally is selling the F828 for same exact price)
I'm not trying to sound condescending at all, I really don't know.
I'm currently thinking of buying a nice camera, and these are the
only things I can gather:

Prosumer pros:
LCD view finder
No need to "worry" about diff lens

Anything else??
Click to expand...
 
I believe he means that with a prosumer, you can see the shot live on the small monitor. With dSLRs, the monitor is only for seeing shots after they are taken. The mirror of the SLR gets in the way, so the monitor can't be used to see what hasn't yet been shot and saved by the camera.

On the other hand, this means that the battery life is incredibly better for dSLRs. I have a Nikon Coolpix 3100 and a Nikon D70. The D70 will go 1000 shots before I need to recharge the battery. The Coolpix can't go one short session of picture taking without changing the batteries once or twice.
Aosh said:
Henrik Andersson said:
I'll go for a DSLR soon, but I envy the compact stills video mode,
compactness, live preview of exposure (actual image, not only
histogram), flip out display, exist more products to choose from.
Click to expand...
What do you mean by live preview of exposure? Don't DSLRs have this?
Click to expand...
 
Robert G1 said:
I believe he means that with a prosumer, you can see the shot live
on the small monitor.
Click to expand...
Correct, It is good when the dynamic range is too big, even for film.

On a DSLR you have to try to meter the interresting part and then recompose and take the picture before light changes, after checking the picture just taken, you might have a chance to try again if you failed.

Not a biggie, but would be nice ...

--
Henrik
 
Skipper494 said:
Size, convenience, bigger zoom, less work, only need 8' x 10"
prints, don't print at home, shall I go on? Different strokes for
different folks, look at the cars people buy.
Skipper494.
Click to expand...
By all means go on if there's more. That's why I asked =)

Cheers
 
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