Nikon D70 vs Sony 828

SMC2002 said:

I didn't mean to make it sound like the 828 images don't enlarge
well. It's just part of my internal rationalization for not
getting a Dslr to date....lol
Do I need really large prints? Do I need 16mm-680mm focal lengths?
Do I need very fast response times? The 828 can handle the 1st and
3rd questions, to a point. I don't think you'll be able to get #2
in a prosumer until next year....lol

Steve

Andy Williams said:

SMC2002 said:

If you print large (larger than
13x19), need a variety of focal lengths, very fast response times
and have the money to spare, then a Dslr (like the D70 or 20D)
would be a good choice.

Click to expand...

i routinely print 16x20 with my 828, and they come out great.
superb in fact.

the 828 can "go large"

Click to expand...

--
http://www.pbase.com/slo2k
http://www.photobird.com/steve

Click to expand...

--
-- andy

the decisive moment: 'the simultaneous recognition, in a fraction of a second, of the significance of an event as well as the precise organisation of forms which give that event its proper expression.' -- henri cartier-bresson

Bob,

Well, first I'm impressed about how people respond to your question, trying to be as objective and helpful as they can, rather than being part of a "church" and trying to sell you whatever they have.

More to the point ... this question has been asked before on the d70 forum. Here is one thread where this question has been asked:
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1034&message=9556638

I did post my view on the subject at the time in that thread:
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1034&message=9558865
(that way I don't have to type it all over again he he he)

Hope that helps

Good luck with your choice
Thierry

Maple Leaf said:

--
Maple leaf:

Help! Can anyone advise me on the purchase of the Sony 828 or the
Nikon D70?

I saw the D70 DSLR in a local camera shop, but the price is $500.00
higher here in Canada than it is in the U.S. The Nikon sells for
over $1,800. plus our @#$& 15% tax which brings this wonderful
camera a little over two thousand.

Sure, it is a DSLR, but no bigger than the 828. However I found
the latter Sony camera much lighter in bulk than the Nikon D70.
Also, I am not impressed with some of the opinion given on this
camera in the Nikon Forum. But...and this is a shrugging kind of
but...I did like the instant focus of the lens which is in the
blink of an eye just like my film camera that now sits in the
cupboard without being used.

Anyway, I did not mean to digress there. If anyone has any
opinion, good or bad, I sure would appreciate it.

Bob

Click to expand...

--
TOF Guy

Were you talking to me ?

Thierry

Andy Williams said:

SMC2002 said:

I didn't mean to make it sound like the 828 images don't enlarge
well. It's just part of my internal rationalization for not
getting a Dslr to date....lol
Do I need really large prints? Do I need 16mm-680mm focal lengths?
Do I need very fast response times? The 828 can handle the 1st and
3rd questions, to a point. I don't think you'll be able to get #2
in a prosumer until next year....lol

Steve

Andy Williams said:

SMC2002 said:

If you print large (larger than
13x19), need a variety of focal lengths, very fast response times
and have the money to spare, then a Dslr (like the D70 or 20D)
would be a good choice.

Click to expand...

i routinely print 16x20 with my 828, and they come out great.
superb in fact.

the 828 can "go large"

Click to expand...

--
http://www.pbase.com/slo2k
http://www.photobird.com/steve

Click to expand...

--
-- andy

the decisive moment: 'the simultaneous recognition, in a fraction
of a second, of the significance of an event as well as the precise
organisation of forms which give that event its proper expression.'
-- henri cartier-bresson

Click to expand...

--
TOF Guy

I'm upgrading in a few months to a DSLR Canon 10D or 20D (I have lots of lenses). I will keep the 828 for it's compact travel size and it really is a good camera, but I think I can do more with a DSLR. --debbie

--
http://ndeb.smugmug.com/

I now have both. The pros for the Nikon (or any other DSLR) is speed. Press the button it shoots. Flexibility of the lenses. Want more zoom just crack out the check book. Greater dynamic range. This is a biggie. If (when) you need to process the image you can get more detail out of the shadow areas with the DSLR. Better low light performance.

The 828 is much smaller. It may not look it but it is once it's in your hands. Tack sharp focus. The 828 is really stunning in this regard. Greater detail in images (at least over the D70) because of higher resolution. The downside of the 828 is the low light noise and the graininess of shadow areas even when the rest of the photo is well lit. The other big issue I have with the 828 is the unpredictable shutter delay. It is much less then my 707 but it isn't consistant and that's problematic for action photography. The other problem is the dreaded purple fringe. If you shoot extremely contrasty stuff the 828 can give some nasty surprises and no, software doesn't fix everything.

If you shoot in difficult conditions the DSLR is a good investment. When the next whiz bang body comes out you'll already have invested in the expensive part (the glass).

If you're shooting where there is fairly good control over the light the 828 is capable of stunning images.

Personally I wish I had held off on the 828 though. It's not been the quantum leap over the 707 for what I shoot and now I'm trying to figure out this D70 and of course succumbing to the deadly GAS (gear acquisition syndrome)

Oh yeah one other bonus. You can still buy a film body and use the DSLR lenses (as long as they're not Nikon DX or the Canon equivalent)

Dan

Richard Grupe said:

In my opinion, forget the 828. Wait and see what comes out at
Photokina. The D70 from what I've heard is a fine camera. I had an
828. Now I use my Canon 10D exclusively. I've got old eyes and I
need that TTL viewfinder.
--

Click to expand...

--
Maple leaf

Thanks for the info, Richard. I, too, have 'old eyes' and I find it extremely difficult to 'see' the LCD outdoors and the histogram helps somewhat, but I am never sure of what I am getting.

Canon 10D? I will have to go to dpreview and look that one up. It is always a toss between a Canon and Sony. I will post something about Canon and Sony this morning.

Bob

Mark Prinz said:

I think it all depends on what you see in your photographic
future. The 828 may satisfy you now, but will it satisfy you a few
years from now or will you want to be able to expand?

-Mark

Maple Leaf said:

--
Maple leaf:

Help! Can anyone advise me on the purchase of the Sony 828 or the
Nikon D70?

I saw the D70 DSLR in a local camera shop, but the price is $500.00
higher here in Canada than it is in the U.S. The Nikon sells for
over $1,800. plus our @#$& 15% tax which brings this wonderful
camera a little over two thousand.

Sure, it is a DSLR, but no bigger than the 828. However I found
the latter Sony camera much lighter in bulk than the Nikon D70.
Also, I am not impressed with some of the opinion given on this
camera in the Nikon Forum. But...and this is a shrugging kind of
but...I did like the instant focus of the lens which is in the
blink of an eye just like my film camera that now sits in the
cupboard without being used.

Anyway, I did not mean to digress there. If anyone has any
opinion, good or bad, I sure would appreciate it.

Bob

Click to expand...

--
http://www.photobird.com/prinz/

Click to expand...

--
Maple leaf

Mark...at my age, time is limited. So I will not look down the road ahead but must live for the day God has given me. (There is a joke in there somewhere, but I can't think of it right now. lol )

Perhaps, for my immediate purpose, the 828 at a more affordable price and the excellent work I've seen on STF by other more experienced photographers would probably suit my needs. I do like the 717, but it is so limited in tele. The macro seems to be excellent with the 250D lens
closeups as evident from other STF contributors.

Thanks for your input on this problem, Mark. You have helped me a lot.

Bob

I do not think it is necessary to post process your DSLR images always! I shot some jpeg images with internal settings that worked for me! I shoot RAW now exclusively (because I want that flexibility), that means post-processing! For shooting jpeg post-processing isn't mandatory, IF you know what you are doing.
Cheers!
--

• Michiel de Brieder -

See profile for equipment!
http://www.pbase.com/giel
Be aware of the optics of life!

jfk said:

Maple Leaf said:

--
Maple leaf:

Help! Can anyone advise me on the purchase of the Sony 828 or the
Nikon D70?

I saw the D70 DSLR in a local camera shop, but the price is $500.00
higher here in Canada than it is in the U.S. The Nikon sells for
over $1,800. plus our @#$& 15% tax which brings this wonderful
camera a little over two thousand.

Sure, it is a DSLR, but no bigger than the 828. However I found
the latter Sony camera much lighter in bulk than the Nikon D70.
Also, I am not impressed with some of the opinion given on this
camera in the Nikon Forum. But...and this is a shrugging kind of
but...I did like the instant focus of the lens which is in the
blink of an eye just like my film camera that now sits in the
cupboard without being used.

Anyway, I did not mean to digress there. If anyone has any
opinion, good or bad, I sure would appreciate it.

Bob

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

--
Maple leaf

Thanks, jk...I have had lots of pros and cons about the two cameras and now I am back where I started. Everyone has their preference, and that is as it should be...but I have decided to continue on with my 717 until I can try out both the 828 and D70 in store.

Will let all of you know in a future posting how I make out.

Bob

Frank Lemire said:

Maple Leaf said:

--
Maple leaf:

Help! Can anyone advise me on the purchase of the Sony 828 or the
Nikon D70?

Click to expand...

Hi bob..

A few observations for you to mull over.

1) how do you use the camera? the 828's swivel and live LCD is a
huge plus for me. The biggest issue about the D70 is that you have
to hold it to your eye for every shot. You cannot compose off the
LCD like you can on a 828. The swivel on the 828 means I can use
it like a waist-level finder, which is a big plus for me.

2) the body : the 828 wins HANDS DOWN for a more solid,
professional feeling body. The lens on the D70, while focusing
lightning quick, is still plastic. The body is also plastic.
It's nice-ish plastic, but i was stunned at how 'cheap' the d70
felt in my hands beside the 828's well dampened zoom lens and
magnesium body.

3) the 8mp vs 6mp - forget this, either are plenty for huge prints.
(I have an 18x12 from both the d70 and 828 and they're both
excellent)

One thing the D70 has over the 828 for me though is the ease of use
in a studio or other rapid-fire situation. The buffering on the
D70 is superb, allowing you a virtually unlimited number of
sequential shots. The 828 has a short lag time as the picture is
processed before it can shoot again, whereas the D70 does not.
Depending on how important this is to you you will determine how
much to weight this feature.

Hope this helps.
Frank / http://www.abstrakt.org

Click to expand...

--
Maple leaf

Frank..you have just helped me make up my mind. As I find the activity of going out and tramping through woods extremely tiring at my age, the shift lens of the 828 (similar, I suppose, to the 717) will be a godsend in taking those 'down under' shots. Reminds me of that humorous saying and old guy once said: "I fell down, and I can't get up!" That's me!!

Thanks, Frank. I am going to go to another town and have a look at the 828. No stores seem to have it here where I live.

Bob

Harry Behret said:

Hi Bob,

I use both the 717 and the D100. Upgrading to a DSLR means a major
outlay of money over an 828. I use my 717 for most of my walking
around, every day shots because its a lot more portable than my
D100 and assorted lenses.

The D100 excels for me right now in my wildife shots. When I use my
80-400 lens I can get closer to the birds than I ever could with my
717. The drawback is the weight and the expense, the 80-400 lens
costs more than the 828. I've gotten some good wildlife shots with
my 717 and the b-300 tele-extender, for example



but I can get closer with the D100 and 80-400



the issue is can you afford the extra outlay of cash for a DSLR and
are you willing to give up the ease of use of a 717 or an 828?

Harry

--
http://www.pbase.com/hpb

'We don't make a photograph just with a camera; we bring to the act
of photography all the books we have read, the movies we have seen,
the music we have heard, the people we have loved.' Ansel Adams

Click to expand...

--
Maple leaf

Harry...I can afford the upgrade to the 828, but tele is on my must list. But I am most interested in that b300 tele extender. How much is that lens? Remember, I am in Canada and prices are higher here.

Will look forward to your posting on this. Thanks for the info. Harry.

Bob

Bob,

The B-300 is out of producrion but its replacement the Tcon-17 is available for around $100 (American). Here's a link.

http://www.b-300.com/tcon17.html

Harry

--
http://www.pbase.com/hpb

'We don't make a photograph just with a camera; we bring to the act of photography all the books we have read, the movies we have seen, the music we have heard, the people we have loved.' Ansel Adams

http://www.dpreview.com/news/0409/04091303pentax_optiomx4.asp

Look at that zoom!
--

Bob,

I have a honest opinion to give you. Please don't take any offense.

The Sony 828, its replacement (if announced), or one of the other all-in-one prosummers will probably suit you, your shooting style, and your budget best. I look through all the posts everyday, study the pictures, even though I don't necessarily comment. So I am looking, and am familiar with your shooting style: mostly on the spot, for the memory, enclosed with a brief narrative.

Like you, I use the f717. I picked it up very cheap earlier this year on a sears/circuit city 10% pricematch thingy. It suits my style well (I like to take pictures of flowers, random people, stuff on my vacations, and someday it'll be pretty girls), with the only problem being shutter lag and focus time (they are slow). I hear the 828 is far improved in this, and its children will only get better, and the children of the competitors' cams will get better as well.

While the DSLRs are all great cameras, have many, many advantages over the all-in-ones, but I don't see how paying a lot of money to lug around the heavy camera with one, two, or three lenses, and the amount of time required in post (unless you like doing that -- and as mentioned earlier by someone else you don't have to process every image), cleaning the sensor out every now and then, and whatever else will improve your photography (if you are looking to improve, I don't know) or help you capture that moment better (this is based upon viewing your images for the last couple months).

Hope this adds to the confusion! Muwahahahah

jano

Maple Leaf said:

--
Maple leaf:

Help! Can anyone advise me on the purchase of the Sony 828 or the
Nikon D70?

I saw the D70 DSLR in a local camera shop, but the price is $500.00
higher here in Canada than it is in the U.S. The Nikon sells for
over $1,800. plus our @#$& 15% tax which brings this wonderful
camera a little over two thousand.

Sure, it is a DSLR, but no bigger than the 828. However I found
the latter Sony camera much lighter in bulk than the Nikon D70.
Also, I am not impressed with some of the opinion given on this
camera in the Nikon Forum. But...and this is a shrugging kind of
but...I did like the instant focus of the lens which is in the
blink of an eye just like my film camera that now sits in the
cupboard without being used.

Anyway, I did not mean to digress there. If anyone has any
opinion, good or bad, I sure would appreciate it.

Bob

Click to expand...

The D70 allows for custom curves to be uploaded to the camera that will basically apply a curve to the image which can great reduce any need for post processing.

Lee

mdebrieder said:

I do not think it is necessary to post process your DSLR images
always! I shot some jpeg images with internal settings that worked
for me! I shoot RAW now exclusively (because I want that
flexibility), that means post-processing! For shooting jpeg
post-processing isn't mandatory, IF you know what you are doing.
Cheers!
--

• Michiel de Brieder -

See profile for equipment!
http://www.pbase.com/giel
Be aware of the optics of life!

Click to expand...

--

• Michiel de Brieder -

See profile for equipment!
http://www.pbase.com/giel
Be aware of the optics of life!

Hi I am very please with the quality and the easy use of the F828 even shooting in manual mode, I just got a D70, my first SLR camera, and life is a new Ball game for me, so I am keeping all two cameras....
you will enjoy them

jano said:

I have a honest opinion to give you. Please don't take any offense.

The Sony 828, its replacement (if announced), or one of the other
all-in-one prosummers will probably suit you, your shooting style,
and your budget best. I look through all the posts everyday, study
the pictures, even though I don't necessarily comment. So I am
looking, and am familiar with your shooting style: mostly on the
spot, for the memory, enclosed with a brief narrative.

Like you, I use the f717. I picked it up very cheap earlier this
year on a sears/circuit city 10% pricematch thingy. It suits my
style well (I like to take pictures of flowers, random people,
stuff on my vacations, and someday it'll be pretty girls), with the
only problem being shutter lag and focus time (they are slow). I
hear the 828 is far improved in this, and its children will only
get better, and the children of the competitors' cams will get
better as well.

While the DSLRs are all great cameras, have many, many advantages
over the all-in-ones, but I don't see how paying a lot of money to
lug around the heavy camera with one, two, or three lenses, and the
amount of time required in post (unless you like doing that -- and
as mentioned earlier by someone else you don't have to process
every image), cleaning the sensor out every now and then, and
whatever else will improve your photography (if you are looking to
improve, I don't know) or help you capture that moment better (this
is based upon viewing your images for the last couple months).

Hope this adds to the confusion! Muwahahahah

jano

Maple Leaf said:

--
Maple leaf:

Help! Can anyone advise me on the purchase of the Sony 828 or the
Nikon D70?

I saw the D70 DSLR in a local camera shop, but the price is $500.00
higher here in Canada than it is in the U.S. The Nikon sells for
over $1,800. plus our @#$& 15% tax which brings this wonderful
camera a little over two thousand.

Sure, it is a DSLR, but no bigger than the 828. However I found
the latter Sony camera much lighter in bulk than the Nikon D70.
Also, I am not impressed with some of the opinion given on this
camera in the Nikon Forum. But...and this is a shrugging kind of
but...I did like the instant focus of the lens which is in the
blink of an eye just like my film camera that now sits in the
cupboard without being used.

Anyway, I did not mean to digress there. If anyone has any
opinion, good or bad, I sure would appreciate it.

Bob

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

--
' In Everything Give GOD Thanks'
All that's left for me to do, is to Strenghten.

Frank Lemire said:

Maple Leaf said:

--
Maple leaf:

Help! Can anyone advise me on the purchase of the Sony 828 or the
Nikon D70?

Click to expand...

Hi bob..

A few observations for you to mull over.

1) how do you use the camera? the 828's swivel and live LCD is a
huge plus for me. The biggest issue about the D70 is that you have
to hold it to your eye for every shot. You cannot compose off the
LCD like you can on a 828. The swivel on the 828 means I can use
it like a waist-level finder, which is a big plus for me.

Click to expand...

The swivel feature is nice for some situations, but for action shooting eye level is more advantageous. Ever tried your EVF with one eye on the action?

Frank Lemire said:

2) the body : the 828 wins HANDS DOWN for a more solid,
professional feeling body. The lens on the D70, while focusing
lightning quick, is still plastic. The body is also plastic.
It's nice-ish plastic, but i was stunned at how 'cheap' the d70
felt in my hands beside the 828's well dampened zoom lens and
magnesium body.

Click to expand...

I disagree with you here. After using the D70 for awhile, the prosumer's feel cheezy to me whenever I pick one up. The D70 is made of a durable polycorbonate, and feels much more substantial in my hands. Although the kit lens is not one of Nikon's top of the line, it's still a very decent lens, and well made. What's wrong with polycarbonate?

Frank Lemire said:

3) the 8mp vs 6mp - forget this, either are plenty for huge prints.
(I have an 18x12 from both the d70 and 828 and they're both
excellent)

Click to expand...

I agree.

Frank Lemire said:

One thing the D70 has over the 828 for me though is the ease of use
in a studio or other rapid-fire situation. The buffering on the
D70 is superb, allowing you a virtually unlimited number of
sequential shots. The 828 has a short lag time as the picture is
processed before it can shoot again, whereas the D70 does not.
Depending on how important this is to you you will determine how
much to weight this feature.

Click to expand...

What happens when you shoot with the 828, the display blanks out. How can you follow any action such as sports or wildlife in movement? eg. Birds in flight for example. I could never do this with my 707. D70--no effort!

Not to say the 828 is not a good camera. It is a very nice camera--with a few exceptions. The best thing is to analyze your real needs--what type of shooting will you mainly be doing, then decide from there.
jk

Frank Lemire said:

Hope this helps.
Frank / http://www.abstrakt.org

Click to expand...

Hiya Bob!

Like you, I have the Sony F717, but I also bought the Nikon D70. Even though I can't tell you whether the F828 is for you or not, I can say about the Nikon DSLR...

The points on getting the D70 are, in my opinion:

Speed: the camera sure is fast, because of the combination of fast AF, short shutter lag, optical TTL viewfinder and intelligent buffer. Not only that, it powers up instantly, if that's important to you. Its burst modes are very nice too, especially if you shoot JPEG.

RAW: even though the F828 has RAW, the D70 implements it in a much better fashion, because the files are WAY smaller and, more importantly, there's the intelligent buffer, that doesn't lock the camera while it's writing the file to the memory card. You can even shoot a burst of RAW images (up to 4 images, at 3 FPS) if you want.

Low light capability: this is way overrated IMHO. People think buying the D70 kit will get them better low light capability than their F717s or F828s for that matter. This is misleading. In low light, you'll probably take a shot at a f/2-ish aperture on the F717, and at f/4-ish on the D70 with kit lens. Given the same shutter speed, the F717 will need only ISO 400 to take the shot, whereas the D70 will need its ISO 1600. The amount of noise you'll get on the F717 won't be that bigger (perhaps it's the same), so you can see why I think this is overrated, and it leads to the next point...

Lenses: get the D70 if you plan on investing in lenses. Even though the kit lens is a very nice all-around lens, it won't realize the full potential for sharpness or low-light photography the D70 has. For that, you'll need: fast inexpensive primes (100-300 USD approximately), fast expensive zooms (about 1300 USD) or fast fast fast expensive primes (I'm talking stuff like the 28 and 85 f/1.4, 1000+ USD).

So, if any of those are of interest, then I suggest taking a look at the D70.

Hope I could help!

Take care!

-- thiago

Robert Flanery said:

Hey Bob,

I think that you will get very good results going either way. I
guess the thing that you need to ask yourself is if you need the
added versatiliy of one or the other. With the Nikon, you can
expect a wide array of lens options and faster focusing and shutter
release. The down side will be a steeper learning curve and a new
storage format to invest in. With the 828, you never have the
problem of sensor dust, you can maintain a lower profile in a
crowd, and on trips you can pack lighter because all your needed
lenses are right there on the end of the camera. You can re=use
the memory sticks you already own. And if you want to really go
all out, the differance in cost can be invested in an XDrive, a
Bogen tripod, remote, And various filters and add on lenses. I
like 'em both. So I guess I am no help. But you have to shoot it,
so you will ultimately have to choose. I am sure you will be quite
happy with either one. Both will require that you adjust your
shooting around whatever quirks they possess.

Look forward to seeing those future images, whatever you shoot!

--
Rob Flanery
http://www.pbase.com/waltermitty1369

Click to expand...

--
Maple leaf

Thanks, Bob. Your advice is always appreciated. For now I am letting my overworked enthusiasm cool down a bit. I haven't conquered all the 717 can do for me, so I will stay put but keep looking.

What I want most is a longer tele and a better closeup lenses for the 717.
I know about the Canon 250D, but for the tele I have no knowledge as yet.

Bob