Dogger Blue
Forum Enthusiast
Aren't you the dude who posted that big 'found-a-camera-in-the-woods' fake-out? Up to the same tricks, I see.
-
Welcome to the new forums! Please read this first. For known issues we are working to resolve, click here.
'Japan vs. China' PLEASE STOP
- Thread starter mario7
- Start date
brokenz
Veteran Member
I'm not even going to read the rest of the posts right now but I will clue you in on something. Their is a difference. I am someone that has to deal with manafacturing facilities in many countries and the quality is still a problem from China. Now I'm not knocking the Chinese. The ones that I know personally work hard, are honest, and are just as intelligent as anyone else in the world. They are just adjusting to tech and processes that some of us take for granted.
This isn't about Canon being stupid. It's about Canon being smart. If your competitors are taking advantage of what amounts to slave labor in China and you don't then your giving them an advantage.
--
Trust that little voice in your head that says, 'Wouldn't it be interesting if....' And then do it. -Duane Michals
brokenz
Veteran Member
Do you have any idea how cheap labor is over there? I'd say not. If you did you'd realize how silly this question is. Keep in mind that I'm not saying that products from China are "cr*p" either.
--
Trust that little voice in your head that says, 'Wouldn't it be interesting if....' And then do it. -Duane Michals
david_h
Forum Enthusiast
When it comes to another camera related product, SD cards, it has been very well documented that cards made in China fail far more frequently than the same brands made in Japan.
One of the PDA sites, I believe Aximsite.com, carried out a huge survey because of problems with SanDisk SD cards. No question, cards marked Made in Japan were fine, ones marked Made in China had a good probability of failure.
I feel fortunate that both my Canons are made in Japan.
Note: I don't have anything at all against the Chinese people. It was the Japanese who killed two of my uncles in slave camps in Burma. At least now they make consumer products with the same level of dedication.
--
Cheers!
David
One of the PDA sites, I believe Aximsite.com, carried out a huge survey because of problems with SanDisk SD cards. No question, cards marked Made in Japan were fine, ones marked Made in China had a good probability of failure.
I feel fortunate that both my Canons are made in Japan.
Note: I don't have anything at all against the Chinese people. It was the Japanese who killed two of my uncles in slave camps in Burma. At least now they make consumer products with the same level of dedication.
--
Cheers!
David
brokenz
Veteran Member
So how many plants do you deal with and in what countries? How many years have you been dealing with manafacturing facilities based in China? I don't need a bunch of people that don't have a clue about what they are talking about talking down to me on some forum like they are experts on the subject. Maybe you are the one that is living in a little fantasy world.Forget it, Mario. Beliefs like these are not based in rationality
and cannot be refuted with logic. Best to just ignore it.
Phil
--
--
Trust that little voice in your head that says, 'Wouldn't it be interesting if....' And then do it. -Duane Michals
What I inferred from his statement regarded the quality of work due to pay...ie end products are cheaper. People who work for very little money often tend to not put quite the effort into their job as someone who is more highly paid. Notice I didn't say always...there are lazy people who make a lot of money, I know. It happens everywhere, not just China. So, I don't see it as racial...I see it more as cheap labor producing a cheaper product that might not always be as high quality. Just my opinion.
Melissa
--
'There are two ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle.' -Albert Einstein
Melissa
--
'There are two ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle.' -Albert Einstein
brokenz
Veteran Member
I love how people will applaud such an immature response to what is a serious thread. Finish high school yet?
--
Trust that little voice in your head that says, 'Wouldn't it be interesting if....' And then do it. -Duane Michals
mamallama
Forum Pro
David:
Now that was uncalled for. I don't want to tell you how my great-great-great grandfather was killed by the British in the War of 1812.
--mamallama
brokenz
Veteran Member
F1 cars? What has that got to do with this? You think cars made in England are better? What does that mean? Higher quality? What specifically?
You obviously have alot of experience with manafacturing complex machinery. (sarcasm since you don't.)
Most of what I've seen from England is of a slightly higher quality than what comes from China but overpriced compared to anything made in the USA.
Maybe for not knowing what you are talking about instead?
--
Trust that little voice in your head that says, 'Wouldn't it be interesting if....' And then do it. -Duane Michals
brokenz
Veteran Member
You've got to be kidding. English cars? Mechanics have made fortunes specializing in certain English brands.
--
Trust that little voice in your head that says, 'Wouldn't it be interesting if....' And then do it. -Duane Michals
Philio Vance
Forum Enthusiast
I love how people will condemn an attempt to inject a bit of levity into an shrill, overblown, ill-informed, incendiary insult-swap. Got a life yet?
brokenz
Veteran Member
I'd tell you what I really thought of every Jag with a V12 that I've ever raced but I'd surely get banned for the obscenities. Let's just say that an idiot could build a later model Mustang or Camaro for 1/4 the price and the Jag doesn't stand a chance in the world.
--
Trust that little voice in your head that says, 'Wouldn't it be interesting if....' And then do it. -Duane Michals
brokenz
Veteran Member
Exactly. To this day Jaguar still hasn't fully recovered their reputation.
--
Trust that little voice in your head that says, 'Wouldn't it be interesting if....' And then do it. -Duane Michals
brokenz
Veteran Member
As someone that actually knows something about the subject at hand and has had to sort thru all of the misinformed posts, I see nothing funny at his attempt to malign what is in fact a truth. I would insult you for your reply but I feel you will probably make some other idiotic response because you have nothing more useful to contribute to this thread.
--
Trust that little voice in your head that says, 'Wouldn't it be interesting if....' And then do it. -Duane Michals
brokenz
Veteran Member
You forgot to reply to this post.
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1010&message=10116083
--
Trust that little voice in your head that says, 'Wouldn't it be interesting if....' And then do it. -Duane Michals
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1010&message=10116083
--
Trust that little voice in your head that says, 'Wouldn't it be interesting if....' And then do it. -Duane Michals
david_h
Forum Enthusiast
One of the best ever TV moments:
German "Stop taking about the war!"
Basil: "You started it!"
German: "We did not!"
Basil: "Yes you did, you invaded Poland."
--
Cheers!
David
German "Stop taking about the war!"
Basil: "You started it!"
German: "We did not!"
Basil: "Yes you did, you invaded Poland."
--
Cheers!
David
brokenz
Veteran Member
F1 cars have to do with what? How many millions are spent developing these basically hand built machines? Did you ever think that F1 cars aren't being mass produced in the US because their really isn't that big of an interest in it there? You've got to be kidding. Please reply. This has got to be the most illogical thing I've seen today.
By your logic, why aren't people building cars for Nascar, NHRA, IHRA and quite a few other motorsports in England? Please tell me?
--
Trust that little voice in your head that says, 'Wouldn't it be interesting if....' And then do it. -Duane Michals
ukdelboy
Leading Member
It's obvious to me your looking for reasons to start an argument over "race".
To these eyes no-one with the exception of yourself has intended to turn this debate into a racial issue.
Personally,I think it's perfectly acceptable for anyone to be able to comment on what their experiences are with regards to products made in other countries.
I also think it's perfectly acceptable for anyone to be able to share their views as to why they think that countries products are not always upto an acceptable standard.
It's also very easy to misunderstand what some people mean when words appear on a monitor screen...All to often people take offense when none was intended by the Aurthur.
Again..I have read what was said, and I see nothing that was intended to be racist. But then I suppose if someone has an over-active imagination it's possible to read into something that doesn't exist.
--
Best regards,
Del
Fuji 602 Pro * TCON -17 * Vivitar 283 * Canon A70 * Canon A80 *
ADSinger
Senior Member
Forget about cars, slave camps and racism. There is a difference at least to this degree: Canon continues to make cameras in both Japan and China. They market the Chinese product in North America (and maybe Europe), but not in Asia. In Asia they only sell the Japanese made cameras. Their stated reason is thatover there country of manufacture is important. Now why would that be? Why would consumers in an outsourcing country demand products made in their own country?
They have further stated that in America the consumer pays l;ess attention so they can sell Chinese cameras here. We get all upset about service quality we get from outsourced support centers, but apparently don't care about outsourced manufactured goods.
In a similar vein, Leica lenses made in Germany routinely bring far higher prices in the used glass market. Why is that? Because they have better optics.
Recently Kawasaki moved production of their venerable KLR to Malaysia (I think it was Maylasia). The KLR user group is rife with quality issues with the new bikes, to the point that in the used market the prices of the last Japanese built units now exceed those of later offshore version. Same deal.
I submit the difference is that which is lost in the translation whenever the people who develop a product and engineer its manufacture turn that process over to another group, particularly a group with a differing culture.
Yes, there's a difference. It's a fact, it's not political or racist comment.
In fact, it is am issue of concern to me personally. I'd like to upgrade to a G6 from my Japan-made G2, but I'm worried about the potential loss of quality.
alan
They have further stated that in America the consumer pays l;ess attention so they can sell Chinese cameras here. We get all upset about service quality we get from outsourced support centers, but apparently don't care about outsourced manufactured goods.
In a similar vein, Leica lenses made in Germany routinely bring far higher prices in the used glass market. Why is that? Because they have better optics.
Recently Kawasaki moved production of their venerable KLR to Malaysia (I think it was Maylasia). The KLR user group is rife with quality issues with the new bikes, to the point that in the used market the prices of the last Japanese built units now exceed those of later offshore version. Same deal.
I submit the difference is that which is lost in the translation whenever the people who develop a product and engineer its manufacture turn that process over to another group, particularly a group with a differing culture.
Yes, there's a difference. It's a fact, it's not political or racist comment.
In fact, it is am issue of concern to me personally. I'd like to upgrade to a G6 from my Japan-made G2, but I'm worried about the potential loss of quality.
alan
mamallama
Forum Pro
Wrong Mr. Mooder Man:
Sport5 interjected racism into the discussion with this sentence,
"The Chinese people are well known for making cheap products".
The implication is that the Chinese people are incapable of doing quality work. The are too dumb to put together the quality parts that Canon provide. He even sensed the racism tinge of guilt when he added his last sencence.
BTW, where do you get your facts? That's a serious question and I welcome an answer.
--mamallama
Keyboard shortcuts
- f
- Forum