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The Doctah

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Is anyone else annoyed that Canon is using the same 18-55mm kit lens as on the Digital Rebel? I mean, we're spending all this money and they can't even give us the USM model? I know it's relatively short money for the lens, but I'm considering a different lens (I'd go for the 17-85, but it's a relative fortune). The only problem is the lack of a wide angle on alternative, non AF-S lenses.

I dunno. What's the best way to go, given that I'm really pushing things to get the 20D, lens and a decent size CF card (especially since none of my other camera stuff can be used with the Canon system)? The first outlay has to be as measured as possible to prevent undue provocation of the spousal unit. Should I just get the body and the 50mm 1.8 to start, and in a month or two go for the 28-135mm IS USM? L glass is out of the question for now, at least until I can do some work to defray the cost of my new toy. Or should I just get the 18-55mm kit lens and be satisfied with its lack of sharpness (I've used one on a Rebel, and it's just an ok lens.)

I'd appreciate any suggestions given my monetary constraints.
 
The Doctah said:
Is anyone else annoyed that Canon is using the same 18-55mm kit
lens as on the Digital Rebel?
Click to expand...
Not really. Some will want it and some will not. I see that Amazon is selling the USM version for around $150, a viable option.

Phil
 
The 18-55 USM is now available in US.

I have the 20D and 18-55 on order and I still have a little hope that the camera will came with the USM 18-55 lens. At least the pictures at canon USA web site shows the body with the USM 18-55 lens.
The Doctah said:
Is anyone else annoyed that Canon is using the same 18-55mm kit
lens as on the Digital Rebel? I mean, we're spending all this money
and they can't even give us the USM model? I know it's relatively
short money for the lens, but I'm considering a different lens (I'd
go for the 17-85, but it's a relative fortune). The only problem is
the lack of a wide angle on alternative, non AF-S lenses.

I dunno. What's the best way to go, given that I'm really pushing
things to get the 20D, lens and a decent size CF card (especially
since none of my other camera stuff can be used with the Canon
system)? The first outlay has to be as measured as possible to
prevent undue provocation of the spousal unit. Should I just get
the body and the 50mm 1.8 to start, and in a month or two go for
the 28-135mm IS USM? L glass is out of the question for now, at
least until I can do some work to defray the cost of my new toy. Or
should I just get the 18-55mm kit lens and be satisfied with its
lack of sharpness (I've used one on a Rebel, and it's just an ok
lens.)

I'd appreciate any suggestions given my monetary constraints.
Click to expand...
--
Affonso
 
I am in the same situation. I have the Rebel w / the kit lens. I will trade up for the 20D. I am thinking seriously about the 17-85; but I wish it were cheaper. I would probably pass on the non-USM kit lens.
 
i first thought about the 17-85, the 17-55 is out of the question. but it's slow and i'm not convinced that IS is the right thing for wide angle.
i'm starting to lean towards a 17-40 and maybe, maybe a 24-85.
hans
 
I don't know the one I tested in the digital rebel I really liked. I got some really nice shots with it and really couldn't complain especially for the money, add to that the 1.6x multiplier on it and it is a pretty decent lens for $100. That is the one I am getting with my 20D. Later I can decide if I want something else. I know I don't want to get too many lens as I don't want to deal with carrying them all around and I know the minute I go out without one I will want it. I would like the new flash unit though and that maybe my nice purchase after the camera. I have yet to own a camera that had a good on camera flash. They tend to blow out things and/or make stuff look dead.

JB
The Doctah said:
Is anyone else annoyed that Canon is using the same 18-55mm kit
lens as on the Digital Rebel? I mean, we're spending all this money
and they can't even give us the USM model? I know it's relatively
short money for the lens, but I'm considering a different lens (I'd
go for the 17-85, but it's a relative fortune). The only problem is
the lack of a wide angle on alternative, non AF-S lenses.

I dunno. What's the best way to go, given that I'm really pushing
things to get the 20D, lens and a decent size CF card (especially
since none of my other camera stuff can be used with the Canon
system)? The first outlay has to be as measured as possible to
prevent undue provocation of the spousal unit. Should I just get
the body and the 50mm 1.8 to start, and in a month or two go for
the 28-135mm IS USM? L glass is out of the question for now, at
least until I can do some work to defray the cost of my new toy. Or
should I just get the 18-55mm kit lens and be satisfied with its
lack of sharpness (I've used one on a Rebel, and it's just an ok
lens.)

I'd appreciate any suggestions given my monetary constraints.
Click to expand...
--
Grow Some Dope. Plant a Politician!
 
Juniper Berry said:
JB
The Doctah said:
Is anyone else annoyed that Canon is using the same 18-55mm kit
lens as on the Digital Rebel? I mean, we're spending all this money
and they can't even give us the USM model? I know it's relatively
short money for the lens, but I'm considering a different lens (I'd
go for the 17-85, but it's a relative fortune). The only problem is
the lack of a wide angle on alternative, non AF-S lenses.

I dunno. What's the best way to go, given that I'm really pushing
things to get the 20D, lens and a decent size CF card (especially
since none of my other camera stuff can be used with the Canon
system)? The first outlay has to be as measured as possible to
prevent undue provocation of the spousal unit. Should I just get
the body and the 50mm 1.8 to start, and in a month or two go for
the 28-135mm IS USM? L glass is out of the question for now, at
least until I can do some work to defray the cost of my new toy. Or
should I just get the 18-55mm kit lens and be satisfied with its
lack of sharpness (I've used one on a Rebel, and it's just an ok
lens.)

I'd appreciate any suggestions given my monetary constraints.
Click to expand...
--
Grow Some Dope. Plant a Politician!
Click to expand...
 
Phil,

I was unable to find the USM on Amazon. Any chance on a link?
I think i'd prefer a USM to the kit lens too.

Best,

J.D.
 
The Doctah said:
Is anyone else annoyed that Canon is using the same 18-55mm kit
lens as on the Digital Rebel? I mean, we're spending all this money
and they can't even give us the USM model? I know it's relatively
short money for the lens, but I'm considering a different lens (I'd
go for the 17-85, but it's a relative fortune). The only problem is
the lack of a wide angle on alternative, non AF-S lenses.

I dunno. What's the best way to go, given that I'm really pushing
things to get the 20D, lens and a decent size CF card (especially
since none of my other camera stuff can be used with the Canon
system)? The first outlay has to be as measured as possible to
prevent undue provocation of the spousal unit. Should I just get
the body and the 50mm 1.8 to start, and in a month or two go for
the 28-135mm IS USM? L glass is out of the question for now, at
least until I can do some work to defray the cost of my new toy. Or
should I just get the 18-55mm kit lens and be satisfied with its
lack of sharpness (I've used one on a Rebel, and it's just an ok
lens.)

I'd appreciate any suggestions given my monetary constraints.
Click to expand...
 
The Doctah said:
Is anyone else annoyed that Canon is using the same 18-55mm kit
lens as on the Digital Rebel? I mean, we're spending all this money
and they can't even give us the USM model? I know it's relatively
short money for the lens, but I'm considering a different lens (I'd
go for the 17-85, but it's a relative fortune). The only problem is
the lack of a wide angle on alternative, non AF-S lenses.

I dunno. What's the best way to go, given that I'm really pushing
things to get the 20D, lens and a decent size CF card (especially
since none of my other camera stuff can be used with the Canon
system)? The first outlay has to be as measured as possible to
prevent undue provocation of the spousal unit. Should I just get
the body and the 50mm 1.8 to start, and in a month or two go for
the 28-135mm IS USM? L glass is out of the question for now, at
least until I can do some work to defray the cost of my new toy. Or
should I just get the 18-55mm kit lens and be satisfied with its
lack of sharpness (I've used one on a Rebel, and it's just an ok
lens.)

I'd appreciate any suggestions given my monetary constraints.
Click to expand...
--The kit lens is an easy way to solve the "wide" problem. No one is saying the kit lens is "L" quality, and for the money, one shouldn't expect high quality. Like you said in your original post: "...it's just an ok lens."

You get what you pay for.

Your get what you pay for rule follows for the 17-85 lens too, as well as the 17-40.

And as a previous post said: You don't have to buy it.

Jim Rickards



Photo critiques are always welcome.
 
Jim Rickards said:
Your get what you pay for rule follows for the 17-85 lens too, as
well as the 17-40.
Click to expand...
I'm not so sure about that, especially where the 17-85mm lens is concerned. Here's a lens that's at a price comparable to some of the L lenses, but it's not L quality and it's no good on any future upgrade to a FF or even 1.3X sensor. That doesn't make a lot of sense to me. I think the 17-40 makes more sense for around the same money, (and better availability) even if it's not as big at the top end- after all, it's L glass and fits on any EOS camera. In two years, if they come out with a new 1.3X camera with all kinds of whiz-bang gotta have new features, you don't have to replace the lens. It seems to me the correct price point for the 17-85 would be around $300 (differential for the kit). But $500? Too much, given its limitations.
 
pendanic mode on//
The Doctah said:
Is anyone else annoyed that Canon is using the same 18-55mm kit
lens as on the Digital Rebel?
Click to expand...
I'm sure some are, people are so easily ticked off these days.
The Doctah said:
I mean, we're spending all this money
and they can't even give us the USM model?
Click to expand...
Its called free enterprise. The object is to separate consumers from
their monies. The trick is to give them (us) just enough that we
willingly come back for more....
The Doctah said:
I know it's relatively
short money for the lens, but I'm considering a different lens (I'd
go for the 17-85, but it's a relative fortune).
Click to expand...
Let me get this one straight::You are paying $1500 for a camera
body, and are not willing to pay more than $100 for the lens. Is
this not like buying a Ferrari ($200,000) and putting $50 tires on it?
The Doctah said:
The only problem is
the lack of a wide angle on alternative, non AF-S lenses.

I dunno. What's the best way to go, given that I'm really pushing
things to get the 20D, lens and a decent size CF card (especially
since none of my other camera stuff can be used with the Canon
system)? The first outlay has to be as measured as possible to
prevent undue provocation of the spousal unit. Should I just get
the body and the 50mm 1.8 to start, and in a month or two go for
the 28-135mm IS USM?
Click to expand...
Why not start with the 50mm and use it for a while and see whether
you want a lense that reaches closer 24mm, 28mm, 35mm or will
you find yourself wanting longer reach 85mm, 100mm 200mm,...
Accumulate lenses based on the kinds of pictures you want to be
able to take.
The Doctah said:
L glass is out of the question for now, at
least until I can do some work to defray the cost of my new toy. Or
should I just get the 18-55mm kit lens and be satisfied with its
lack of sharpness (I've used one on a Rebel, and it's just an ok
lens.)
Click to expand...
This is also a reasonable starting point. Get the lens that puts you
in operation (18-55) and see what pictures you can make with it,
and what pictures you cannot get.
The Doctah said:
I'd appreciate any suggestions given my monetary constraints.
Click to expand...
When you understand what pictures you cannot get with your
current gear, you are finally in a position to start surveying the
market to see what kind of new gear to accumulate:: but not
before.

--
Mitch
 
MitchAlsup said:
pendanic mode on//
Click to expand...
for more....
MitchAlsup said:
Let me get this one straight::You are paying $1500 for a camera
body, and are not willing to pay more than $100 for the lens. Is
this not like buying a Ferrari ($200,000) and putting $50 tires on it?
Click to expand...
Nope, it's like paying $1500 for a Ferrari and putting $100 tyres on it! Wait a minute, that sounds like a pretty good deal :O) $1500 for a Ferrari? Am I sure?
 
TheDoctah said:
Jim Rickards said:
Your get what you pay for rule follows for the 17-85 lens too, as
well as the 17-40.
Click to expand...
I'm not so sure about that, especially where the 17-85mm lens is
concerned. Here's a lens that's at a price comparable to some of
the L lenses, but it's not L quality and it's no good on any future
upgrade to a FF or even 1.3X sensor. That doesn't make a lot of
sense to me. I think the 17-40 makes more sense for around the same
money, (and better availability) even if it's not as big at the top
end- after all, it's L glass and fits on any EOS camera. In two
years, if they come out with a new 1.3X camera with all kinds of
whiz-bang gotta have new features, you don't have to replace the
lens. It seems to me the correct price point for the 17-85 would be
around $300 (differential for the kit). But $500? Too much, given
its limitations.
Click to expand...
--One "test" of whether the lens is priced "right" is checking for other lenses of similar quality and covering that range.

The wide range has been a problem for 1.6 crop cameras to cover. I don't see anything in anyone's lineup that comes close to covering the 17-85's reach, with or without IS. Point one out if I missed a contender.

Don't misunderstand - I'd like it to be $300 (or $30), but until it has some competition, we should expect to see the price where it is.

I agree on you point about the possible temporary need for lenses to cover the needs of the 1.6 crop cameras. I think the 17-40L is looking very attractive. It gets excellent reviews, it will survive one's transistion to a full frame camera, and it has good resale value. Yes, it's a bit more, and doesn't cover the high end, but that's the tradeoff.

Jim Rickards



Photo critiques are always welcome.
 
MitchAlsup said:
The Doctah said:
Is anyone else annoyed that Canon is using the same 18-55mm kit
lens as on the Digital Rebel?
Click to expand...
I'm sure some are, people are so easily ticked off these days.
MitchAlsup said:
I mean, we're spending all this money
and they can't even give us the USM model?
Click to expand...
Its called free enterprise. The object is to separate consumers from
their monies. The trick is to give them (us) just enough that we
willingly come back for more....
MitchAlsup said:
I know it's relatively
short money for the lens, but I'm considering a different lens (I'd
go for the 17-85, but it's a relative fortune).
Click to expand...
Let me get this one straight::You are paying $1500 for a camera
body, and are not willing to pay more than $100 for the lens. Is
this not like buying a Ferrari ($200,000) and putting $50 tires on it?
MitchAlsup said:
The only problem is
the lack of a wide angle on alternative, non AF-S lenses.

I dunno. What's the best way to go, given that I'm really pushing
things to get the 20D, lens and a decent size CF card (especially
since none of my other camera stuff can be used with the Canon
system)? The first outlay has to be as measured as possible to
prevent undue provocation of the spousal unit. Should I just get
the body and the 50mm 1.8 to start, and in a month or two go for
the 28-135mm IS USM?
Click to expand...
Why not start with the 50mm and use it for a while and see whether
you want a lense that reaches closer 24mm, 28mm, 35mm or will
you find yourself wanting longer reach 85mm, 100mm 200mm,...
Accumulate lenses based on the kinds of pictures you want to be
able to take.
MitchAlsup said:
L glass is out of the question for now, at
least until I can do some work to defray the cost of my new toy. Or
should I just get the 18-55mm kit lens and be satisfied with its
lack of sharpness (I've used one on a Rebel, and it's just an ok
lens.)
Click to expand...
This is also a reasonable starting point. Get the lens that puts you
in operation (18-55) and see what pictures you can make with it,
and what pictures you cannot get.
MitchAlsup said:
I'd appreciate any suggestions given my monetary constraints.
Click to expand...
When you understand what pictures you cannot get with your
current gear, you are finally in a position to start surveying the
market to see what kind of new gear to accumulate:: but not
before.

--
Mitch
Click to expand...
--I agree fully with your last point, Mitch. One lens to start off with while you decide. Another starting point might be the 50mm f1.4 or f1.8 or the 35mm f2. The reasoning here is that you will want a low light lens anyway. Choosing the 35mm you will see which way you want to go - higher or lower. Or perhaps you will want a nice bright 50mm for low light work and portraits.

Jim Rickards



Photo critiques are always welcome.
 
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