CANON vs NIKON debate with the 20D, Mark2, 1Ds

• New or changed

DMillier said:

James

You may be 100% correct with your analysis, but exactly what is the
point of your post? Nikon management are no doubt doing their best

• do you think they need encouragement or something? Your post is

something: a rant, sorrow, bitterness or what- I'm just not sure...

Click to expand...

David Purslow said:

Be it a rant or whatever its reading my mind.

I am a pro shooter, I have been waiting and waiting for YEARS for a
new nikon camera.

I have 8 Nikon lenses from the 300 2.8 down - I dont want to change
systems but cant wait any longer.

I have shot nikon for almost 15 years now but today started to
order my canon system.

Since I now shoot a lot of sports, I have gone for the Mk 2, 70-200
is L, 24 - 20 L and the Sigma 120-300 2.8 I am looking at both the
300 2.8 and the 400 2.8 as my main sports lens but have not sorted
out a final decision yet.

I waited as long as I could but cant affort to wait any longer :-(

I hate swithching systems since got my first nikon 8008s I have
loved every camera but today they are years behind.

Sad but true.

Click to expand...

James L Wilson said:

• and their "L"

lenses and I own a bunch of them from the long 400mm f2.8 IS "L",
to the short, 14mm wide angle. >

Click to expand...

jeds said:

This is all very bad news folks.

I have always been a Canon user - 30 years or thereabouts. Not by
design, just because that was the way it was. You know how it goes,
you start and next thing you know, or don't know maybe, your in the
loop.

The reason I say it's bad news is that the sole reason why Canon,
or Nikon, or any other manufacturer come to that, produce the
cameras and equipment they do, is because of the competition.

If Canon did not have the thought in the back of its mind that
Nikon may sneak up and make a move, then it probably would slow to
a stop.

Competition breeds development and has given us the lowest cost,
best, most highly developed cameras and equipment ever. Remove the
competition and who knows what?

Click to expand...

James L Wilson said:

jeds said:

This is all very bad news folks.

I have always been a Canon user - 30 years or thereabouts. Not by
design, just because that was the way it was. You know how it goes,
you start and next thing you know, or don't know maybe, your in the
loop.

The reason I say it's bad news is that the sole reason why Canon,
or Nikon, or any other manufacturer come to that, produce the
cameras and equipment they do, is because of the competition.

If Canon did not have the thought in the back of its mind that
Nikon may sneak up and make a move, then it probably would slow to
a stop.

Competition breeds development and has given us the lowest cost,
best, most highly developed cameras and equipment ever. Remove the
competition and who knows what?

Click to expand...

True, true, however, tell that to MICROSOFT when it climbed from a
fledgling company in 1985, to presently owning over 90% of the
world market - and they are presently not asleep as to new
technologhy. They make $1billion net each month, have $40billion in
cash, own all the building they occupy, and have No debt, other
than their current payroll. And because of this, we and millions of
others can communicate globally in this forum !!

So Canon has lots of time and motivation as they are nowhere near
owning 90% of the digital camera market.

--
James L Wilson, Digital Imaging Systems enterprise,
http://www.BocaRatonDigital.com , Raton, Florida, Director and Principal
Officer

Click to expand...

rodg said:

Rod

rodg82609 said:

• and their "L"

lenses and I own a bunch of them from the long 400mm f2.8 IS "L",
to the short, 14mm wide angle. >

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

James L Wilson said:

Canon Being ahead or Nikon behind has much to do with which company
comes out with the best equipment first. Look at the Canon 1D which
came out 2 years ago at 8fps with 4MP, it is only until recently
that Nikon came out with its D2H, too little too late; Then last
year Canon came out with its 11MP EOS-1Ds- Nikon never even
attempted to compete with this one. The better wedding and product
photographers use the 1Ds period - and its killing the digital back
market on hasselblad and other medium format cameras as a result.

Then Canon in March, 2004 has hit the market with its 1Dmk2 with
8.5fps at 8.2MP, what pro in their right mind would buy the 2DH at
4MP, which is why more and more pros are tired of waiting for Nikon
to catch up, and are switching over, including me. Its also so easy
to dump the NIKON lenses on ebay. The pros cannot be behind in
technology - the competition is too great.

Behind the scene, the truth Nikon is at the mercy of 3rd parties
for developing their CCD imagers, which is a huge disadvantage for
NIKON, costs more time and money to get to market. Since Canon
makes every major component in its cameras including the Image
Processor and the Digital Imager they will likely remain in the
technology driver's seat for some time to come.

NOW look at Phil Askey's test images (link below) of Canon's new
EOS-20D, 5 fps, 8.2MP, 23 frame buffer, with unbelievable low noise
at ISO of 800 and 1600, 1000 shot battery capacity, true B&W mode
with color filters, two color spaces, sRGB and Adobe RGB.... the
list goes on and on. Here's another point, every EOS lens in the
Canon line-up is fully functional with all EOS cameras built since
1980, except for 3 recently produced for the 300D. Canon will
eventually be more universally FullFrame and the need for these
back focus lenses will be eliminated.

I personaly had NIKON and Hasselblad systems with all the pieces
for 30 years. And since 1997, I am universally CANON, and sold
everything else on ebay. As a user of these three systems dating
back since 1975, I must admit Canon is the leader - and their "L"
lenses and I own a bunch of them from the long 400mm f2.8 IS "L",
to the short, 14mm wide angle. Regretfully Nikon a distant 3rd
place.

Click to expand...

James L Wilson said:

I teach digital photography at a 30,000 student south Florida State
University, and shoot professionally for the NCAA and FAU sports,
USA Soccer, among other venues, and must have the best of the best,
in this competive world.

As to your unwritten, comment why would one put this great glass on
a 20D; I always tell my students to but the best glass you can
afford, and have a modent camera, not the reverse. Lots of folks
over-buy on the camera, are then lens-broke, and get inexpensive
aftermarket glass. Afterall the subject light goes through the
Glass....

Being a good photographer, having a good eye, etc., is VERY
important, but we do need the very best toolls of the trade. So it
seems that every 18 months I trade up to the newest digital body.
My eye is on the Photokina for the upgrade to the 1Ds.....

PS: Great carpenters dont buy their tools from Kmart, period.

rodg said:

Rod

James L Wilson said:

• and their "L"

lenses and I own a bunch of them from the long 400mm f2.8 IS "L",
to the short, 14mm wide angle. >

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

--
James L Wilson, Digital Imaging Systems enterprise,
http://www.BocaRatonDigital.com , Raton, Florida, Director and Principal
Officer

Click to expand...

Scott Cragg said:

That's why their security is such top notch... Why XP is so small,
and efficiant, and why Millenium was so Rock-stable...

I bought a new computer two months ago when I moved. Hooked it up
to my cable internet connection and patched it up completely...

One week later (After very careful use by a professional software
engineer, mind you), The computer was so riddled with worms and
spyware in was unusable (I was too busy with my new job to go buy a
virus scanner... DOH).

That is simply and utterly unacceptable... It is HORRENDOUS even -
the only reason why people still buy microsoft products is...

Well, because they have no choice (unless you want an overpriced
mac, which is unfortunately not supported by the SDK for the type
of software engineering I do, so I had no choice).

Because they have a Monopoly.

R&D is expensive, it cuts away from management bonuses and the
bottom line. Companies won't engage in it unless they feel like
they need to for survival...

Hence competition is good... lest we end up having the M$ of the
optical world on our hands.

James L Wilson said:

jeds said:

This is all very bad news folks.

I have always been a Canon user - 30 years or thereabouts. Not by
design, just because that was the way it was. You know how it goes,
you start and next thing you know, or don't know maybe, your in the
loop.

The reason I say it's bad news is that the sole reason why Canon,
or Nikon, or any other manufacturer come to that, produce the
cameras and equipment they do, is because of the competition.

If Canon did not have the thought in the back of its mind that
Nikon may sneak up and make a move, then it probably would slow to
a stop.

Competition breeds development and has given us the lowest cost,
best, most highly developed cameras and equipment ever. Remove the
competition and who knows what?

Click to expand...

True, true, however, tell that to MICROSOFT when it climbed from a
fledgling company in 1985, to presently owning over 90% of the
world market - and they are presently not asleep as to new
technologhy. They make $1billion net each month, have $40billion in
cash, own all the building they occupy, and have No debt, other
than their current payroll. And because of this, we and millions of
others can communicate globally in this forum !!

So Canon has lots of time and motivation as they are nowhere near
owning 90% of the digital camera market.

--
James L Wilson, Digital Imaging Systems enterprise,
http://www.BocaRatonDigital.com , Raton, Florida, Director and Principal
Officer

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Nathan Dandar said:

PS: My dad uses all used, discount and cheap tools and produces
carpentry work that makes other carpenters' mouths drop open in awe.

James L Wilson said:

I teach digital photography at a 30,000 student south Florida State
University, and shoot professionally for the NCAA and FAU sports,
USA Soccer, among other venues, and must have the best of the best,
in this competive world.

As to your unwritten, comment why would one put this great glass on
a 20D; I always tell my students to but the best glass you can
afford, and have a modent camera, not the reverse. Lots of folks
over-buy on the camera, are then lens-broke, and get inexpensive
aftermarket glass. Afterall the subject light goes through the
Glass....

Being a good photographer, having a good eye, etc., is VERY
important, but we do need the very best toolls of the trade. So it
seems that every 18 months I trade up to the newest digital body.
My eye is on the Photokina for the upgrade to the 1Ds.....

PS: Great carpenters dont buy their tools from Kmart, period.

rodg said:

Rod

Nathan Dandar said:

• and their "L"

lenses and I own a bunch of them from the long 400mm f2.8 IS "L",
to the short, 14mm wide angle. >

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

--
James L Wilson, Digital Imaging Systems enterprise,
http://www.BocaRatonDigital.com , Raton, Florida, Director and Principal
Officer

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

James L Wilson said:

I teach digital photography at a 30,000 student south Florida State
University, and shoot professionally for the NCAA and FAU sports,
USA Soccer, among other venues, and must have the best of the best,
in this competive world.

As to your unwritten, comment why would one put this great glass on
a 20D; I always tell my students to but the best glass you can
afford, and have a modent camera, not the reverse. Lots of folks
over-buy on the camera, are then lens-broke, and get inexpensive
aftermarket glass. Afterall the subject light goes through the
Glass....

Being a good photographer, having a good eye, etc., is VERY
important, but we do need the very best toolls of the trade. So it
seems that every 18 months I trade up to the newest digital body.
My eye is on the Photokina for the upgrade to the 1Ds.....

PS: Great carpenters dont buy their tools from Kmart, period.

rodg said:

Rod

James L Wilson said:

• and their "L"

lenses and I own a bunch of them from the long 400mm f2.8 IS "L",
to the short, 14mm wide angle. >

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

--
James L Wilson, Digital Imaging Systems enterprise,
http://www.BocaRatonDigital.com , Raton, Florida, Director and Principal
Officer

Click to expand...

Nathan Dandar said:

Also, the D2H has advantages over the 1D MkII if you look past the
megapixel number. Besides, the D2H is aimed at photojournalists
and newspaper photographers where you DO NOT need huge, high
quality, high DPI enlargements. Do not. The other features it has
are of much higher importance than the silly megapixel number.
Look at dpreview's review alone for a few of these plus-points:
wide dynamic range, very clean film-like non-processed look to the
photos, excellent ergonomics and build quality that matches or
exceeds the Canon 1D series, "the most responsive shutter release I
have ever experienced" according to the review, extremely quick
viewfinder blackout, faster startup time than the 1D MkII, great
metering, VERY accurate and fast focusing that kills any Canon
1-series camera, WiFi support, overall very very fast and very very
flexible camera and interface.

Oh... but it has 4MP instead of 8MP so it's inferior. hahah in
your dreams.

James L Wilson said:

Canon Being ahead or Nikon behind has much to do with which company
comes out with the best equipment first. Look at the Canon 1D which
came out 2 years ago at 8fps with 4MP, it is only until recently
that Nikon came out with its D2H, too little too late; Then last
year Canon came out with its 11MP EOS-1Ds- Nikon never even
attempted to compete with this one. The better wedding and product
photographers use the 1Ds period - and its killing the digital back
market on hasselblad and other medium format cameras as a result.

Then Canon in March, 2004 has hit the market with its 1Dmk2 with
8.5fps at 8.2MP, what pro in their right mind would buy the 2DH at
4MP, which is why more and more pros are tired of waiting for Nikon
to catch up, and are switching over, including me. Its also so easy
to dump the NIKON lenses on ebay. The pros cannot be behind in
technology - the competition is too great.

Behind the scene, the truth Nikon is at the mercy of 3rd parties
for developing their CCD imagers, which is a huge disadvantage for
NIKON, costs more time and money to get to market. Since Canon
makes every major component in its cameras including the Image
Processor and the Digital Imager they will likely remain in the
technology driver's seat for some time to come.

NOW look at Phil Askey's test images (link below) of Canon's new
EOS-20D, 5 fps, 8.2MP, 23 frame buffer, with unbelievable low noise
at ISO of 800 and 1600, 1000 shot battery capacity, true B&W mode
with color filters, two color spaces, sRGB and Adobe RGB.... the
list goes on and on. Here's another point, every EOS lens in the
Canon line-up is fully functional with all EOS cameras built since
1980, except for 3 recently produced for the 300D. Canon will
eventually be more universally FullFrame and the need for these
back focus lenses will be eliminated.

I personaly had NIKON and Hasselblad systems with all the pieces
for 30 years. And since 1997, I am universally CANON, and sold
everything else on ebay. As a user of these three systems dating
back since 1975, I must admit Canon is the leader - and their "L"
lenses and I own a bunch of them from the long 400mm f2.8 IS "L",
to the short, 14mm wide angle. Regretfully Nikon a distant 3rd
place.

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Nathan Dandar said:

Also, the D2H has advantages over the 1D MkII if you look past the
megapixel number. Besides, the D2H is aimed at photojournalists
and newspaper photographers where you DO NOT need huge, high
quality, high DPI enlargements. Do not. The other features it has
are of much higher importance than the silly megapixel number.
Look at dpreview's review alone for a few of these plus-points:
wide dynamic range, very clean film-like non-processed look to the
photos, excellent ergonomics and build quality that matches or
exceeds the Canon 1D series, "the most responsive shutter release I
have ever experienced" according to the review, extremely quick
viewfinder blackout, faster startup time than the 1D MkII, great
metering, VERY accurate and fast focusing that kills any Canon
1-series camera, WiFi support, overall very very fast and very very
flexible camera and interface.

Oh... but it has 4MP instead of 8MP so it's inferior. hahah in
your dreams.

James L Wilson said:

Canon Being ahead or Nikon behind has much to do with which company
comes out with the best equipment first. Look at the Canon 1D which
came out 2 years ago at 8fps with 4MP, it is only until recently
that Nikon came out with its D2H, too little too late; Then last
year Canon came out with its 11MP EOS-1Ds- Nikon never even
attempted to compete with this one. The better wedding and product
photographers use the 1Ds period - and its killing the digital back
market on hasselblad and other medium format cameras as a result.

Then Canon in March, 2004 has hit the market with its 1Dmk2 with
8.5fps at 8.2MP, what pro in their right mind would buy the 2DH at
4MP, which is why more and more pros are tired of waiting for Nikon
to catch up, and are switching over, including me. Its also so easy
to dump the NIKON lenses on ebay. The pros cannot be behind in
technology - the competition is too great.

Behind the scene, the truth Nikon is at the mercy of 3rd parties
for developing their CCD imagers, which is a huge disadvantage for
NIKON, costs more time and money to get to market. Since Canon
makes every major component in its cameras including the Image
Processor and the Digital Imager they will likely remain in the
technology driver's seat for some time to come.

NOW look at Phil Askey's test images (link below) of Canon's new
EOS-20D, 5 fps, 8.2MP, 23 frame buffer, with unbelievable low noise
at ISO of 800 and 1600, 1000 shot battery capacity, true B&W mode
with color filters, two color spaces, sRGB and Adobe RGB.... the
list goes on and on. Here's another point, every EOS lens in the
Canon line-up is fully functional with all EOS cameras built since
1980, except for 3 recently produced for the 300D. Canon will
eventually be more universally FullFrame and the need for these
back focus lenses will be eliminated.

I personaly had NIKON and Hasselblad systems with all the pieces
for 30 years. And since 1997, I am universally CANON, and sold
everything else on ebay. As a user of these three systems dating
back since 1975, I must admit Canon is the leader - and their "L"
lenses and I own a bunch of them from the long 400mm f2.8 IS "L",
to the short, 14mm wide angle. Regretfully Nikon a distant 3rd
place.

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

DigialPowerShot said:

Nathan Dandar said:

Also, the D2H has advantages over the 1D MkII if you look past the
megapixel number. Besides, the D2H is aimed at photojournalists
and newspaper photographers where you DO NOT need huge, high
quality, high DPI enlargements. Do not. The other features it has
are of much higher importance than the silly megapixel number.
Look at dpreview's review alone for a few of these plus-points:
wide dynamic range, very clean film-like non-processed look to the
photos, excellent ergonomics and build quality that matches or
exceeds the Canon 1D series, "the most responsive shutter release I
have ever experienced" according to the review, extremely quick
viewfinder blackout, faster startup time than the 1D MkII, great
metering, VERY accurate and fast focusing that kills any Canon
1-series camera, WiFi support, overall very very fast and very very
flexible camera and interface.

Oh... but it has 4MP instead of 8MP so it's inferior. hahah in
your dreams.

James L Wilson said:

Canon Being ahead or Nikon behind has much to do with which company
comes out with the best equipment first. Look at the Canon 1D which
came out 2 years ago at 8fps with 4MP, it is only until recently
that Nikon came out with its D2H, too little too late; Then last
year Canon came out with its 11MP EOS-1Ds- Nikon never even
attempted to compete with this one. The better wedding and product
photographers use the 1Ds period - and its killing the digital back
market on hasselblad and other medium format cameras as a result.

Then Canon in March, 2004 has hit the market with its 1Dmk2 with
8.5fps at 8.2MP, what pro in their right mind would buy the 2DH at
4MP, which is why more and more pros are tired of waiting for Nikon
to catch up, and are switching over, including me. Its also so easy
to dump the NIKON lenses on ebay. The pros cannot be behind in
technology - the competition is too great.

Behind the scene, the truth Nikon is at the mercy of 3rd parties
for developing their CCD imagers, which is a huge disadvantage for
NIKON, costs more time and money to get to market. Since Canon
makes every major component in its cameras including the Image
Processor and the Digital Imager they will likely remain in the
technology driver's seat for some time to come.

NOW look at Phil Askey's test images (link below) of Canon's new
EOS-20D, 5 fps, 8.2MP, 23 frame buffer, with unbelievable low noise
at ISO of 800 and 1600, 1000 shot battery capacity, true B&W mode
with color filters, two color spaces, sRGB and Adobe RGB.... the
list goes on and on. Here's another point, every EOS lens in the
Canon line-up is fully functional with all EOS cameras built since
1980, except for 3 recently produced for the 300D. Canon will
eventually be more universally FullFrame and the need for these
back focus lenses will be eliminated.

I personaly had NIKON and Hasselblad systems with all the pieces
for 30 years. And since 1997, I am universally CANON, and sold
everything else on ebay. As a user of these three systems dating
back since 1975, I must admit Canon is the leader - and their "L"
lenses and I own a bunch of them from the long 400mm f2.8 IS "L",
to the short, 14mm wide angle. Regretfully Nikon a distant 3rd
place.

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Click to expand...