Photographing Teenagers

We Boy Scout Leaders are bound by the following regulations when meeting privately with youth outside of a General Meeting:
1) Always "2-Deep" (2 Adults Present; preferably one a parent).

2) In special cases, when 2 Adults cannot be available, as when transporting boys from venue to venue in a car: 1 Adult to 4 Boys; never 1-to-1.

These rules protect the boys from the possibility of improper adult behavior, and protect the adult from the possibility of unfounded accusations.
--
-Ellery
Pixelated Electronics Engineer (HW/SW/FW)

is it a bit of paranoia ? Think of all the fathers who bring their children's babysitters back home.

G. Jobin

med007 said:

Doesn't need to be teenage: remember the current messed up career
and life of model photographer from Shutterbug! Police and
prsecuters are not necessarily fair. Cameras and computers
impounded, how can you work? Guys will always be considered fair
game for prosecuters trying to improve public image!

Click to expand...

I agree with your point but not your example. While I embrace the concept of "innocent until proven guilty", if it's the same photographer I'm thinking of, remember someone died. Even if he's innocent in the model's death, everything he's admitted to is one of the main reasons we're having this conversation. His actions endanger all of us.

My, how the world has changed. I did a ton of senior photography back in the 80's. We offered environmental portraiture and I'd pack the kids up in my car and drive them to remote areas. Just one senior, my camera and me. I never had a problem, but I'd never in a million years do that now.

Doug

Ellery Potash said:

We Boy Scout Leaders are bound by the following regulations when
meeting privately with youth outside of a General Meeting:
1) Always "2-Deep" (2 Adults Present; preferably one a parent).
2) In special cases, when 2 Adults cannot be available, as when
transporting boys from venue to venue in a car: 1 Adult to 4 Boys;
never 1-to-1.

These rules protect the boys from the possibility of improper adult
behavior, and protect the adult from the possibility of unfounded
accusations.
--
-Ellery
Pixelated Electronics Engineer (HW/SW/FW)

Click to expand...

Not to burst your bubble, Lord Baden-Powel who started the boy scouts, had his own native black scout group in South Africa to track the enemies of the British they were fighting at the time.

Unfortunately, he molested them! also when they had to retreat, he abandoned them to the enemy. That is the history I have leartned through the documentaries on the History channel, I believe.

Glad that the boy scouts realize this issue. However, now they are ploain homophobic, and this is so ironical!

In street photography, it is a good idea to ask the parents first and to give them a card. just imagine the child is yours and we are living in 2004 and all the etiquette will be common sense. Except for child models, even with parental permision, nude or seminude photography is apparently open to severe reaction and even charges!

There is no complete protection because as pointed out above, even with a video record, a claim can be made that you stared inappropriately, touched, positioned, and the video could be a two edged sword. I could be misenterpreted.

The best way is chaperoning.

Asher

med007 said:

Not to burst your bubble, Lord Baden-Powel who started the boy
scouts, had his own native black scout group in South Africa to
track the enemies of the British they were fighting at the time.

Unfortunately, he molested them! also when they had to retreat, he
abandoned them to the enemy. That is the history I have leartned
through the documentaries on the History channel, I believe.

Click to expand...

Goodness. What was the name of the show and when was it televised? What support did they have for such claims? If such is true, that is unfortunate... but also irrelevant to photography or really even to Scouting today.

med007 said:

Glad that the boy scouts realize this issue. However, now they are
ploain homophobic, and this is so ironical!

Click to expand...

Not to open a can of worms, but such a claim suggests a very myopic view with little understanding of Scouting, its values and goals, its relationship with other organizations, or even the nature of the legal cases involving homosexuals and Scouting.

But that is a discussion appropriate for this forum. Feel free to email if you wish to discuss.

med007 said:

The best way is chaperoning.

Click to expand...

Definitely so.

--
Any DSLR beats unexposed film.

Obviously straying from the topic, but in such a case the family usually knows the family of the babysitter, so it is less likely one will run across an unstable teenager who might make false claims.

It is often the mother who drives the babysitter home. If the father drives, he will generally drive the babysitter STRAIGHT home and return to his house immediately so as to minimize the time alone and thus reduce the possibility of any such false charges.

I think the term is "avoiding any possible appearance of impropriety".

Sad that we must do so in this day and age, but it is prudent.

-- Lew

l_ombre_jaune said:

is it a bit of paranoia ? Think of all the fathers who bring their
children's babysitters back home.

G. Jobin

Click to expand...

--
Any DSLR beats unexposed film.

Hello Lew

Lew said:

Obviously straying from the topic, but in such a case the family
usually knows the family of the babysitter, so it is less likely
one will run across an unstable teenager who might make false
claims.

Click to expand...

I think I read somewhere that in sex crime, the criminal is more often then not someone who is known. I may be wrong. But now we are straying, I was just arguing that it might be more paranoia then just being careful.

gpb11 said:

It is often the mother who drives the babysitter home.

Click to expand...

I beg to differ,

gpb11 said:

If the
father drives, he will generally drive the babysitter STRAIGHT home
and return to his house immediately so as to minimize the time
alone and thus reduce the possibility of any such false charges.

Click to expand...

ummm, what's the term ? impropriety ? only takes a few second no mather were you are. But then you are coming back to my point : paranoia

gpb11 said:

I think the term is "avoiding any possible appearance of impropriety".

Sad that we must do so in this day and age, but it is prudent.

Click to expand...

yes it is


G. Jobin

Hey, Folks!

Let's not get too paranoid about shooting with teenage models. Yes, you should always have someone else there, preferably a relative, but I have done it with my MUA. The key thing is: don't get bullied or tempted into taking pictures that are inappropriate for the age of the model, mail or female. (Young models, especially girls, seem often, to want to"push the envelope". The pictures are what's damning as they are solid evidence of inappropriate behavior.

I mean, h* l, any teenager can make a statement that you made unwanted and unlawful advances in a park somewhere, even if you have never seen her/him before.

I have worked alone with teenage models, but only with people I know WELL. These are kids I have taken fishing, hunting, skiing, hiking . . . (they are like my own kids) but never without the knowledge and approval of their parents.

In my state (I think in most) the lawful age of consent is 16. Does that mean that you can't be charged if you shoot nudes of a 16 yr old? No, only that the charge can't be child pornography. There are other charges that can be brought, but they can be brought by a 25 yr old as well. The smart thing is to never shoot alone with a model unless you know them so well, by personal experience or reputation, that you would trust them with your life . . because youn are.
--
The right to free speech in no way implies any right to be taken seriously!
Joe

l_ombre_jaune said:

I think I read somewhere that in sex crime, the criminal is more
often then not someone who is known. I may be wrong. But now we are
straying, I was just arguing that it might be more paranoia then
just being careful.

Click to expand...

I was talking from the perspective of an adult protecting against false claims. You are correct, but I think you are also talking about statistics for situations generally different from the "driving the babysitter home".

l_ombre_jaune said:

l_ombre_jaune said:

It is often the mother who drives the babysitter home.

Click to expand...

I beg to differ,

Click to expand...

You are certainly welcome to; I draw soley from my personal experiences and what friends and family members do. I haven't surveyed the population as a whole.

l_ombre_jaune said:

But then you are coming back to my point :
paranoia

Click to expand...

Perhaps. I think paranoia is too strong a term. There is definitely risk, and that risk carries such severe consequences that prudence is wise.

--
Any DSLR beats unexposed film.

jlongo said:

Hey, Folks!
Let's not get too paranoid about shooting with teenage models.

Click to expand...

A good post jlongo, but the original post was about shooting portrait.

While some more stylistic approach may pose more "risk", I would think like you that there is a lot of paranoia going on.

G. Jobin

med007 said:

Ellery Potash said:

We Boy Scout Leaders are bound by the following regulations when
meeting privately with youth outside of a General Meeting:
1) Always "2-Deep" (2 Adults Present; preferably one a parent).
2) In special cases, when 2 Adults cannot be available, as when
transporting boys from venue to venue in a car: 1 Adult to 4 Boys;
never 1-to-1.

These rules protect the boys from the possibility of improper adult
behavior, and protect the adult from the possibility of unfounded
accusations.
--
-Ellery
Pixelated Electronics Engineer (HW/SW/FW)

Click to expand...

Not to burst your bubble, Lord Baden-Powel who started the boy
scouts, had his own native black scout group in South Africa to
track the enemies of the British they were fighting at the time.

Unfortunately, he molested them! also when they had to retreat, he
abandoned them to the enemy. That is the history I have leartned
through the documentaries on the History channel, I believe.

Glad that the boy scouts realize this issue. However, now they are
ploain homophobic, and this is so ironical!

In street photography, it is a good idea to ask the parents first
and to give them a card. just imagine the child is yours and we are
living in 2004 and all the etiquette will be common sense. Except
for child models, even with parental permision, nude or seminude
photography is apparently open to severe reaction and even charges!

There is no complete protection because as pointed out above, even
with a video record, a claim can be made that you stared
inappropriately, touched, positioned, and the video could be a two
edged sword. I could be misenterpreted.

The best way is chaperoning.

Asher

Click to expand...

--
-Ellery
Pixelated Electronics Engineer (HW/SW/FW)