Need help: S60 vs Sony W1....

thedrake · Aug 22, 2004

OK, I've been out and about, read until my eyeballs ache and I think I have finally gotten to the point where I'm ready to pull the trigger. Interestingly, I'm still confused, possibly more so.

I badly want the Canon S60.....or at least I think I do. My problem is that there isn't anyone near me that actually carries the camera, which means I have not had the chance to hold it, and play around with it.

I have been able to look at many others on my list, and have now tossed them off the list because shutter lag. One that I've taken off the list is the Kodak LS753, which in many reviews places the shutter lag equal to what the Canon S60's is.. The only 2 cameras remaining on my list are the Canon S60 and the Sony W1. I've read about this blurriness problem of the W1, but have also read many people say it isn't an issue. When I played with it at the store, I did take a few blurrly pictures, and it seemed to blur right before firing the flash, almost as if it fired the shutter before it obtained the focus lock or something.

Anyway, for anyone that has been able to play around with both of these, how do the two compare for shutter lag (full press) and shutter lag (on half-press after half-press focus lock) when both are in AUTO mode?

I guess my issue is that I'm very uncomfortable buying something at this price range w/o first getting to hold it in my hand. 80% of the pictures will be on Auto mode, or possibly a programmed in mode where all I have to do is flip there and take the shot w/o having to goof around with settings - There is no time to goof around with settings in manual mode when you have a 2 year old and a 5 year old....they move fast and by the time you set everything up, the moment is gone. I need/want a P&S that also happens to have other features like a programable mode or manual mode for those times when I do want to take the time to experiment, but it must primarily take good, fast P&S pictures.

Suggestions / Comments.

barshnik · Aug 22, 2004

In many ways the W1 has advantages over the S60 - shutter lag from full press, video, less noise, bigger LCD, smaller size. Shutter lag from half press is very fast on both cameras.

You don't want to shoot the W1 in auto mode, however - it may as well not have an auto mode. It defaults to an unholdably slow shutter speed more often than not rather than increasing ISO.

For most pics, the S60 will do better than the W1 in full auto (plus it is easier to hold, in my opinion).

If you take a few seconds before a shooting session and fiddle with P settings, the W1 is very nice (and my old eyes love the display) - just don't rely on auto...

John F

beyondalldoubt · Aug 23, 2004

The S60 reverts to fine JPG in auto, but retains settings in "P". You may be disappointed with the LCD in bright light, and the flash is sometimes not what you had in mind. Have you considered waiting for the A95? It may be better with the kids for several reasons: With the articulated LCD, it's easier to get candids. Also, you can move the screen around for better advantage in bright light.

barshnik said:
In many ways the W1 has advantages over the S60 - shutter lag from
full press, video, less noise, bigger LCD, smaller size. Shutter
lag from half press is very fast on both cameras.

You don't want to shoot the W1 in auto mode, however - it may as
well not have an auto mode. It defaults to an unholdably slow
shutter speed more often than not rather than increasing ISO.

For most pics, the S60 will do better than the W1 in full auto
(plus it is easier to hold, in my opinion).

If you take a few seconds before a shooting session and fiddle with
P settings, the W1 is very nice (and my old eyes love the display)

just don't rely on auto...

John F

thedrake · Aug 23, 2004

I have considered waiting on the A95, but thought better of it for the following reasons:

1) On paper, the flash range is 2.5m versus the S60's 4.2M. So if the S60's flash is lacking, then the A95's has got to be really poor as well.

2) On paper, the "full press" shutter lag is .6 versus S60's .4, which means I miss more shots.

I did like the swivel screen, and have long felt that the A80 was the camera for me if only it had 5MP and a 1.8" or larger swivel. Well, now it has, but looking at the above two points gave me pause.

It is a pain in the rear end to always half-press the shutter in order to speed up the shot you are going to take. Not to mention that the "shot" is over with by the time you do it, when you have 2/5 year olds running around. That's why the fast W1 appealed to me, but am hearing that it is not a good picture taker in Auto mode.

Looks like I'm confused about what to buy......again.

beyondalldoubt said:
barshnik said:

In many ways the W1 has advantages over the S60 - shutter lag from
full press, video, less noise, bigger LCD, smaller size. Shutter
lag from half press is very fast on both cameras.

You don't want to shoot the W1 in auto mode, however - it may as
well not have an auto mode. It defaults to an unholdably slow
shutter speed more often than not rather than increasing ISO.

For most pics, the S60 will do better than the W1 in full auto
(plus it is easier to hold, in my opinion).

If you take a few seconds before a shooting session and fiddle with
P settings, the W1 is very nice (and my old eyes love the display)

just don't rely on auto...

John F

Click to expand...

Tuba Paul · Aug 23, 2004

thedrake said:
I have considered waiting on the A95, but thought better of it for
the following reasons:

1) On paper, the flash range is 2.5m versus the S60's 4.2M. So if
the S60's flash is lacking, then the A95's has got to be really
poor as well.
2) On paper, the "full press" shutter lag is .6 versus S60's .4,
which means I miss more shots.

I did like the swivel screen, and have long felt that the A80 was
the camera for me if only it had 5MP and a 1.8" or larger swivel.
Well, now it has, but looking at the above two points gave me pause.

It is a pain in the rear end to always half-press the shutter in
order to speed up the shot you are going to take. Not to mention
that the "shot" is over with by the time you do it, when you have
2/5 year olds running around. That's why the fast W1 appealed to
me, but am hearing that it is not a good picture taker in Auto mode.

Looks like I'm confused about what to buy......again.

I haven't experienced the blurry pics that some have mentioned or the problems with Auto mode--here's a link to a shot taken one-armed out the window on full auto that I never would have captured with a slower camera...

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1009&message=9147828

--

Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read...

booth99 · Aug 23, 2004

I have a Canon S1 IS and a Sony DSC-W1. The W1 takes great pictures of still objects in Auto mode. It picks too slow of a shutter speed for action shots. The indoor flash shots in Auto can be tricky because the camera selects 1/30-1/40 shutter speeds. The flash is also much weaker than my S1 flash. The good thing is that manual mode is very simple. It only has 2 f stops to choose from and will give you a + or - EV when selecting shutter speed. The W1 is my wifes camera, she likes it very much. The W1 will take very good pictures if you know how to use it. I prefer my S1 because of the easy to use controls, IS, and big zoom. I have a 3 year old daughter and the W1 works fine!

thedrake said:
OK, I've been out and about, read until my eyeballs ache and I
think I have finally gotten to the point where I'm ready to pull
the trigger. Interestingly, I'm still confused, possibly more so.

I badly want the Canon S60.....or at least I think I do. My
problem is that there isn't anyone near me that actually carries
the camera, which means I have not had the chance to hold it, and
play around with it.

I have been able to look at many others on my list, and have now
tossed them off the list because shutter lag. One that I've taken
off the list is the Kodak LS753, which in many reviews places the
shutter lag equal to what the Canon S60's is.. The only 2 cameras
remaining on my list are the Canon S60 and the Sony W1. I've read
about this blurriness problem of the W1, but have also read many
people say it isn't an issue. When I played with it at the store,
I did take a few blurrly pictures, and it seemed to blur right
before firing the flash, almost as if it fired the shutter before
it obtained the focus lock or something.

Anyway, for anyone that has been able to play around with both of
these, how do the two compare for shutter lag (full press) and
shutter lag (on half-press after half-press focus lock) when both
are in AUTO mode?

I guess my issue is that I'm very uncomfortable buying something at
this price range w/o first getting to hold it in my hand. 80% of
the pictures will be on Auto mode, or possibly a programmed in mode
where all I have to do is flip there and take the shot w/o having
to goof around with settings - There is no time to goof around with
settings in manual mode when you have a 2 year old and a 5 year
old....they move fast and by the time you set everything up, the
moment is gone. I need/want a P&S that also happens to have other
features like a programable mode or manual mode for those times
when I do want to take the time to experiment, but it must
primarily take good, fast P&S pictures.

Suggestions / Comments.

SandyKHo · Aug 23, 2004

beyondalldoubt said:
The S60 reverts to fine JPG in auto, but retains settings in "P".

Just wondered what you were referring to when you mentioned the S60 reverting to "fine JPG in auto". I have set mine at Superfine and it stays there, even on auto. Perhaps you were referring to fine JPG as opposed to RAW...?
--
God gave us an incredible world. Touch it, taste it, smell it, PHOTOGRAPH IT!

SandyKHo · Aug 23, 2004

thedrake said:
There is no time to goof around with
settings in manual mode when you have a 2 year old and a 5 year
old....they move fast and by the time you set everything up, the
moment is gone.

--

I have two grandchildren and I do know just what you mean! My S400 and S500 can't keep up with them real well unless there is a lot of light available because there is no shutter control and no fast shutter or action mode setting.

I just recently tried out the fast shutter mode on the S60 with my 2 year old grandson. These shots were taken outside in the early evening, when there wasn't a lot of sun left. I didn't use the flash. These shots have had no post processing.

God gave us an incredible world. Touch it, taste it, smell it, PHOTOGRAPH IT!

thedrake · Aug 23, 2004

Thanks for the imput SandyKHo. I was hoping someone with the camera and kids/grandkids around would reply.

This gives me a good idea of what I can do with the S60. When you say "fast shutter mode", is that of the "scene modes", or did you have it in manual mode and set a bunch of stuff? And if it was manual, I'm assuming that I could then save those settings off to the Custom for quick recall by just switching the dial to "C".

Also, another question for you, if you don't mind. When I'm trying to get my kids to pose for a shot, or at least look at me and smile, I miss the shot at times because of shutter lag, even on the half-press. What are you experiences with the S60. I"m guessing if you have time to ask them to smile you have time to hit the shutter half-way. I"m also assuming that the S60 is very quick at that point. Do you concur? What about full-press, do you miss any "smiles" when "full-pressing" the shutter - or is that when you put it into "fast shutter mode"?

Thanks.

SandyKHo said:
SandyKHo said:

There is no time to goof around with
settings in manual mode when you have a 2 year old and a 5 year
old....they move fast and by the time you set everything up, the
moment is gone.

Click to expand...

I have two grandchildren and I do know just what you mean! My S400
and S500 can't keep up with them real well unless there is a lot of
light available because there is no shutter control and no fast
shutter or action mode setting.

I just recently tried out the fast shutter mode on the S60 with my
2 year old grandson. These shots were taken outside in the early
evening, when there wasn't a lot of sun left. I didn't use the
flash. These shots have had no post processing.

Sal Baker · Aug 23, 2004

SandyKHo said:
SandyKHo said:

There is no time to goof around with
settings in manual mode when you have a 2 year old and a 5 year
old....they move fast and by the time you set everything up, the
moment is gone.

Click to expand...

--

I have two grandchildren and I do know just what you mean! My S400
and S500 can't keep up with them real well unless there is a lot of
light available because there is no shutter control and no fast
shutter or action mode setting.

I just recently tried out the fast shutter mode on the S60 with my
2 year old grandson. These shots were taken outside in the early
evening, when there wasn't a lot of sun left. I didn't use the
flash. These shots have had no post processing.

Nice shots! Were you at full wide angle on these? I have found the large depth of field of the S60's 28mm lens to be a huge advantage when shooting several active kids.

SandyKHo · Aug 23, 2004

thedrake said:
Thanks for the imput SandyKHo. I was hoping someone with the
camera and kids/grandkids around would reply.

This gives me a good idea of what I can do with the S60. When you
say "fast shutter mode", is that of the "scene modes", or did you
have it in manual mode and set a bunch of stuff? And if it was
manual, I'm assuming that I could then save those settings off to
the Custom for quick recall by just switching the dial to "C".

--

The S60 has scene modes on the dial, and I was using "fast shutter". (Not manual). But if you wanted to you could set your shutter and aperture in Manual mode and them save them to the "C" mode.

As with all digital cameras (that I know of anyway) there is a slight shutter lag between the push of the button and the actual photo being taken....but it is far less than some of the other digitals I have owned. My cousin has a Fuji 6900 which has FAR FAR more shutter lag than any of the Canons I have or have used. I do miss an occasional "moment" due to the shutter lag. I don't know if there is a way around that without buying and toting a DSLR.

I don't remember whether I was zoomed in when those shots were taken or not or if they were at full wide angle. Here is the EXIF from one of them:

File Name
IMG_1539.JPG
Camera Model Name
Canon PowerShot S60
Shooting Date/Time
8/16/2004 7:14:31 PM
Shooting Mode
Fast Shutter
Photo Effect Mode
Off
Tv( Shutter Speed )
1/200
Av( Aperture Value )
5.3
Metering Mode
Evaluative
Exposure Compensation
0
ISO Speed
Auto
Lens
5.8 - 20.7mm
Focal Length
20.7mm
Digital Zoom
None
Image Size
2592x1944
Image Quality
Superfine
Flash
Off
White Balance
Auto
AF Mode
Single AF
Color Space
sRGB
File Size
2793KB
Drive Mode
Single-frame shooting
Owner's Name
Sandy Howell

It is frustrating when your local stores don't carry a camera and you can't get your hands on one to try it out.

God gave us an incredible world. Touch it, taste it, smell it, PHOTOGRAPH IT!

bigred24 · Aug 23, 2004

thedrake said:
OK, I've been out and about, read until my eyeballs ache and I
think I have finally gotten to the point where I'm ready to pull
the trigger. Interestingly, I'm still confused, possibly more so.

but it must

thedrake said:
primarily take good, fast P&S pictures.

Suggestions / Comments.

I purchased the W1 last Sunday, played around with it for a week, and returned it to B&H for the s60 yesterday. I understand every user will have a different opinion. here's mine:

the Sony was blurry with action shots in auto, and yes there is a work around if you use manual (personally I think that defeats the purpose of a p&s camera). I haven't experienced any of this with the Canon as of yet.

even though the Sony is compact, the Canon is easier for me to hold.

Wide angle is definitely a plus for following kids!!!

and the Sony LCD (which is a major selling point for the camera) has no actual glass over it for protection. Canon does. I posted a ? regarding this in the Sony forum and this did not seem to bother most users, much to my surprise.

I hope this helps you with your decision. I know you were asking primarily regarding shutter lag, and the previous posts seemed to answer those questions for you. I just wanted to try and provide you with some more information.(hopefully useful).

one more thing...the pictures I took with the Sony were not as "crisp" as the pictures from the Canon. to get an idea of what I mean, check out pbase.com and go to camera database to see actual shots from both cameras. (this really helped my decision to take the Sony back)

good luck

thedrake · Aug 23, 2004

THANKS to everyone who commented. It has really helped me solidify my position on the S60. I'm gonna place the order tomorrow for the S60 and go from there. Good news is I found an online store that will price match plus 10%, AND has a store within 30 minutes that will allow me to return it there if I don't like it (unfortunately they don't stock the S60 in their store, just online). I get 14 days from the day of delivery and a zero return stocking fee and can ship it back to them or return to their store. So I'd say that is pretty much risk free on my end.

Again, thanks to everyone for the input!!!!!!

bigred24 said:
bigred24 said:

Suggestions / Comments.

Click to expand...

I purchased the W1 last Sunday, played around with it for a week,
and returned it to B&H for the s60 yesterday. I understand every
user will have a different opinion. here's mine:

the Sony was blurry with action shots in auto, and yes there is a
work around if you use manual (personally I think that defeats the
purpose of a p&s camera). I haven't experienced any of this with
the Canon as of yet.

even though the Sony is compact, the Canon is easier for me to hold.

Wide angle is definitely a plus for following kids!!!

and the Sony LCD (which is a major selling point for the camera)
has no actual glass over it for protection. Canon does. I posted a
? regarding this in the Sony forum and this did not seem to bother
most users, much to my surprise.

I hope this helps you with your decision. I know you were asking
primarily regarding shutter lag, and the previous posts seemed to
answer those questions for you. I just wanted to try and provide
you with some more information.(hopefully useful).

one more thing...the pictures I took with the Sony were not as
"crisp" as the pictures from the Canon. to get an idea of what I
mean, check out pbase.com and go to camera database to see actual
shots from both cameras. (this really helped my decision to take
the Sony back)

good luck

Sal Baker · Aug 23, 2004

thedrake said:
THANKS to everyone who commented. It has really helped me solidify
my position on the S60. I'm gonna place the order tomorrow for the
S60 and go from there. Good news is I found an online store that
will price match plus 10%, AND has a store within 30 minutes that
will allow me to return it there if I don't like it (unfortunately
they don't stock the S60 in their store, just online). I get 14
days from the day of delivery and a zero return stocking fee and
can ship it back to them or return to their store. So I'd say that
is pretty much risk free on my end.

Again, thanks to everyone for the input!!!!!!

Have fun! Don't worry, you won't want to return it.

tech70 · Aug 23, 2004

I had Sony W1 for few days and after I took few shots ...I returned it coz it had blurry pictures. Now I have S60....I am very happy with it. Lot of Manual functions and settings to play with. Only one regret it doesn't have anti-reflective though. So LCD is hardly visible in sunlight... But I m glad that I took S60.

I think you can consider Canon S500 also or S60. Both are good cameras. I personally liked Canon S500 because its not as bulky as S60. My Canon S500 had some fault with it; there were some Red, Green & Blue grains/dots pixels visible on CCD...after reading the whole manual and playing with it..and no use because camera had some problem. I finally returned it. And then I got S60. And I m glad that I returned S500.

It depends which one you would like ...both are almost the same; but S60 with some added features....!!!

thedrake said:
OK, I've been out and about, read until my eyeballs ache and I
think I have finally gotten to the point where I'm ready to pull
the trigger. Interestingly, I'm still confused, possibly more so.

I badly want the Canon S60.....or at least I think I do. My
problem is that there isn't anyone near me that actually carries
the camera, which means I have not had the chance to hold it, and
play around with it.

I have been able to look at many others on my list, and have now
tossed them off the list because shutter lag. One that I've taken
off the list is the Kodak LS753, which in many reviews places the
shutter lag equal to what the Canon S60's is.. The only 2 cameras
remaining on my list are the Canon S60 and the Sony W1. I've read
about this blurriness problem of the W1, but have also read many
people say it isn't an issue. When I played with it at the store,
I did take a few blurrly pictures, and it seemed to blur right
before firing the flash, almost as if it fired the shutter before
it obtained the focus lock or something.

Anyway, for anyone that has been able to play around with both of
these, how do the two compare for shutter lag (full press) and
shutter lag (on half-press after half-press focus lock) when both
are in AUTO mode?

I guess my issue is that I'm very uncomfortable buying something at
this price range w/o first getting to hold it in my hand. 80% of
the pictures will be on Auto mode, or possibly a programmed in mode
where all I have to do is flip there and take the shot w/o having
to goof around with settings - There is no time to goof around with
settings in manual mode when you have a 2 year old and a 5 year
old....they move fast and by the time you set everything up, the
moment is gone. I need/want a P&S that also happens to have other
features like a programable mode or manual mode for those times
when I do want to take the time to experiment, but it must
primarily take good, fast P&S pictures.

Suggestions / Comments.

Search

Need help: S60 vs Sony W1....

thedrake

Well-known member

barshnik

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beyondalldoubt

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thedrake

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Tuba Paul

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booth99

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SandyKHo

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SandyKHo

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thedrake

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Sal Baker

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SandyKHo

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bigred24

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thedrake

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Sal Baker

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tech70

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