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C1 LE New version DOWNGRADE??

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I do not want you to think that I am abandoning this discussion, but I have the great assignment of photographing the WWII Memorial Dedication this weekend in Washington DC. I am thrilled with this assignment. So I will be diriving down there tomorrow and probably not have time to visit here at DPR. I will of course check my own forum as I can, but I must concentrate on the assignment and I am just thrilled to be there on such a momentous occassion.

Thanks for all of the kind words and also for sticking by C1 in a time of crisis. I think that the October release is going to knock some socks off, and we are already working towards that. Also I know that management will be pleased that you were willing to allow them to err as long as it was corrected. And somehow I think that the October release will be handled a little differently.

Thanks again and see you next week..

--
Regards,

Michael Tapes
Senior Product Manager C1 RAW Workflow - Phase One
http://www.RawWorkflow.com
 
Darrell McCombs said:
PD2004,

The "internal management issues" imply that Management did not know
what was being put out in thier release. Obviously this is a lie.
The omitted features were omitted in an effort to make people
upgrade which would increase revenues.

Think about it. One of two scenarios happened. Either management
did not know what was going out in thier major upgrade which makes
them idiots. Or they knew what was happening, and now claim it was
a mistake so they don't look greedy. The latter of course makes
them liars.

Phase One can decide which it is, but really I don't care. No one
wants to put thier long-term photo processing plans in the hands of
idiots or liars. The end result is that they have lost a lot of
customer trust and support.

Regards,
Darrell McCombs
Click to expand...
They own the mistake and admit to it. It is not being passed off as some minor slip. This was a hug error in the judgement of management which is what I tried to convey. And they have learned from it and pledge to do their best not to repeat that kind of thinking. There is no hiding going on here. There was some bad thinking behind this.

--
Regards,

Michael Tapes
Senior Product Manager C1 RAW Workflow - Phase One
http://www.RawWorkflow.com
 
You may very well be correct. But the point is that P1 DID reinstate the deleted features and P1 DID apologize (through Michael's hard work and this forum's strong support). And they did this quickly. If nothing else, P1 has shown they can learn from their mistakes.

For some, P1 has damaged their trust beyond repair. For others it will take a long time for P1 to demonstate that they have truly learned a lesson and are working to regain our trust. Michael's continued association with P1 goes a long way in that trust equation. As long as he is there, I know we have an advocate.

I hope that P1 realizes that they now have exactly one chance to prove themselves to their customers. If there is a "next time" to this kind of situation, I suspect most of us will be gone.

Best,

Paul
Darrell McCombs said:
PD2004,

The "internal management issues" imply that Management did not know
what was being put out in thier release. Obviously this is a lie.
The omitted features were omitted in an effort to make people
upgrade which would increase revenues.

Think about it. One of two scenarios happened. Either management
did not know what was going out in thier major upgrade which makes
them idiots. Or they knew what was happening, and now claim it was
a mistake so they don't look greedy. The latter of course makes
them liars.

Phase One can decide which it is, but really I don't care. No one
wants to put thier long-term photo processing plans in the hands of
idiots or liars. The end result is that they have lost a lot of
customer trust and support.

Regards,
Darrell McCombs
Click to expand...
--
Make photographs, not equipment lists!
Friends don't let friends measurebate
http://www.pbase.com/pauls/
 
Mr. Lee said:
To me, that says more than if this had never happened in the first
place.
Click to expand...
This means that P1 is listening to the people that keep them afloat.

Thank you, Michael, for being the voice, and for seeing this through. After reading through your posts here, I think that you've handled this problem with a level of concern and professionalism that many other companies could use as a model.

OK, here's my question: If I purchase C1 LE before the 16-bit mode returns, and I get the 16-bit update when it occurs, with this particular update negate any free updates I would recieve in the future?

Thank you for your efforts, AND results!

--
  • markE
http://www.wingsoflight.com



pbase supporter
 
I used to be a major supporter, until I ran into this problem a few times. Not for me. And they are talking about maybe October to fix it. Doesn't make any sense. How fundamental is getting a color range correct?
Olli Nuutinen said:
i think main bug is not fixed well... sample images ahead.

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1019&message=8955808

--
Olli Nuutinen - http://www.6mpix.com - Weblog: photography & EOS 10D
Click to expand...
--
Paul

------------------------------------------------
Pbase supporter
Photographs at: http://www.pbase.com/pbleic
--------------------------------------------------

Unless specified otherwise, all images are Copyright 2003, 2004 All rights reserved.
 
I have a few friends that are vets of WWII, and will be attending the dedication. Unfortunately, my father, who was a paratrooper there, has since passed on, but I know he wouldn't have missed it.

Best wishes on the assignment. I know you will do well!

--
  • markE
http://www.wingsoflight.com



pbase supporter
 
WHY WHY WHY! : (

But why you talked that i will be fixed NOW ?

October ... har-har ... its quite funny that bug have been there for one year : ) ... why eg. BreezeBrowser works but 10x expensive software don't?
pbleic said:
I used to be a major supporter, until I ran into this problem a few
times. Not for me. And they are talking about maybe October to fix
it. Doesn't make any sense. How fundamental is getting a color
range correct?
Click to expand...
 
Olli Nuutinen said:
But why you talked that i will be fixed NOW ?

October ... har-har ... its quite funny that bug have been there
for one year : ) ... why eg. BreezeBrowser works but 10x expensive
software don't?
pbleic said:
I used to be a major supporter, until I ran into this problem a few
times. Not for me. And they are talking about maybe October to fix
it. Doesn't make any sense. How fundamental is getting a color
range correct?
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
No excuse, but it is based in some fundamental changes that need to be made in the poct releasae. You are right. This has gone on too long. We hope the Oct release to be a new benchmark for our superior quality, and get rid of the few anomolies that we have., It is being worked on as we speak.

--
Regards,

Michael Tapes
Senior Product Manager C1 RAW Workflow - Phase One
http://www.RawWorkflow.com
 
markE said:
Mr. Lee said:
To me, that says more than if this had never happened in the first
place.
Click to expand...
This means that P1 is listening to the people that keep them afloat.

Thank you, Michael, for being the voice, and for seeing this
through. After reading through your posts here, I think that you've
handled this problem with a level of concern and professionalism
that many other companies could use as a model.

OK, here's my question: If I purchase C1 LE before the 16-bit mode
returns, and I get the 16-bit update when it occurs, with this
particular update negate any free updates I would recieve in the
future?

Thank you for your efforts, AND results!

--
  • markE
http://www.wingsoflight.com



pbase supporter
Click to expand...
The release next week and the June release are what we call incremental releases and they do not count towards the 1 (LE/SE) and 2(Pro) free upgrades that come with a new ugrade key. So regardless of how many incremental ugrades there are it is only the May and oct major releases that count as part of the udgrade caluclation...

--
Regards,

Michael Tapes
Senior Product Manager C1 RAW Workflow - Phase One
http://www.RawWorkflow.com
 
MichaelT said:
markE said:
Mr. Lee said:
To me, that says more than if this had never happened in the first
place.
Click to expand...
This means that P1 is listening to the people that keep them afloat.

Thank you, Michael, for being the voice, and for seeing this
through. After reading through your posts here, I think that you've
handled this problem with a level of concern and professionalism
that many other companies could use as a model.

OK, here's my question: If I purchase C1 LE before the 16-bit mode
returns, and I get the 16-bit update when it occurs, with this
particular update negate any free updates I would recieve in the
future?

Thank you for your efforts, AND results!

--
  • markE
http://www.wingsoflight.com



pbase supporter
Click to expand...
The release next week and the June release are what we call
incremental releases and they do not count towards the 1 (LE/SE)
and 2(Pro) free upgrades that come with a new ugrade key. So
regardless of how many incremental ugrades there are it is only the
May and oct major releases that count as part of the udgrade
caluclation...

--
Regards,

Michael Tapes
Senior Product Manager C1 RAW Workflow - Phase One
http://www.RawWorkflow.com
Click to expand...
 
Quality haven't been superior(lamps,candels,sun,flowers...bugs very bad sometimes even skin on direct sunlight)... I think GUI/real-time-preview is the reason people choose C1, that's superior.

Olli Nuutinen
MichaelT said:
No excuse, but it is based in some fundamental changes that need to
be made in the poct releasae. You are right. This has gone on too
long. We hope the Oct release to be a new benchmark for our
superior quality, and get rid of the few anomolies that we have.,
It is being worked on as we speak.

--
Regards,

Michael Tapes
Senior Product Manager C1 RAW Workflow - Phase One
http://www.RawWorkflow.com
Click to expand...
--
Olli Nuutinen - http://www.6mpix.com - Weblog: photography & EOS 10D
 
Michael,

I agree that they are fixing the issue reasonably quickly. I also agree they apologized.

My remaining issue is is that in thier apology, they blame things on a "procedure" (see quote below). I contend this is a lie, and your response to me and others that it was poor judgement is correct. If they were accepting fault, they would say WE used poor judgement, and would not blame things passively on a PROCEDURE.

This screw up was not due to some "black box" unknown thing. Management got greedy and made bad decisions. Until they start using words like "We...", they are just slighting the fault.

"Without going into details, there were some internal management procedures that obviously did not work correctly, and as a result a release not worthy of the C1 name and our loyal customer base was released."

On a slightly different note, you did a tremendous job of communicating our reaction to thier decisions. I am a bit surprised however that you were as surprised as we were by the 8-bit downgrade. In your position, I would think they would keep you better informed. When were they kind enough to tell you about this?

Thanks for taking time to respond to all the unhappy folks. I am sure your fingers are getting sore from all the typing.

Regards,
Darrell McCombs
 
I'm not sure how how helpful it is to start name calling over this, especially in light of P1's willingness to fix the problem.

Here's what I think happened. I think the execs sat down with the feature set of Pro and started to take things out in order to create a price/value portfolio chain that would create upgrade revenue opportunities. In doing so, by the time they got to LE they had to take out too much to keep it from bumping into the feature set of the much more expensive SE. What they failed to realize was that they were actually recmoving basic and important fuctionality from the existing LE and from Rebel.

I'm sure the mistaken idea was that owners of entry level DSLR cameras wouldn't initially miss the features that were not included in LE and they would get some upgrade revenue when users moved to SE later on. But they completely underestimated the existing user base who already had those features and found them indispensible.
--
-wick
 
If BB had the GUI/real-time-preview of C1, I never would have looked at C1. BB does much more for half the price of LE. It lacks the saving of individual settings for each image, but hey, it has no batch limit!

I think the biggest problem was pricing the pro version so high. It caused 3 new editions (LE,SE,Rebel) to be produced to fill the HUGE gap.

I too have experienced the flourescent color shift. I fail to see why it takes 5 months to fix it AND I have to pay for it?

On the flip side, a very big 'Thank You' to Michael for his efforts.

CR
Olli Nuutinen said:
Quality haven't been superior(lamps,candels,sun,flowers...bugs very
bad sometimes even skin on direct sunlight)... I think
GUI/real-time-preview is the reason people choose C1, that's
superior.

Olli Nuutinen
Click to expand...
 
Here is now pic with sunset profile...

it works with that image quite well... but how about pics wiht
people and bright lights, candels, flowers... ?

BUT also this profile fails colors when adding saturation : (


Olli Nuutinen said:
i think main bug is not fixed well... sample images ahead.

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1019&message=8955808

--
Olli Nuutinen - http://www.6mpix.com - Weblog: photography & EOS 10D
Click to expand...
--
Olli Nuutinen - http://www.6mpix.com - Weblog: photography & EOS 10D
 
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