Long, thoughtful, provocative 828 advice

[Todd Meyers]

My post wasn't for people who already own the 828. You're happy with it and willing to do all the additional work it takes, as you admit, to minimize its flaws. Surely you would prefer not having to fix your photos, and if Sony released a firmware that fixed the problems, you'd use it, wouldn't you? So obviously there are problems, and you are quite aware of them.

My post was for people who are thinking about buying the 828 and I just wanted them to have the benefit of my experience. If my post has nothing of value for you, then skip it. But people often come here looking for advice, and I offered mine, end of story.

-Todd

The problem with his post was not his frustration and desire for
the 300D, which is very understandable. The problem is he started
saying things that are completely untrue.

Look, the whole "new convert evangelist" thing is old hat.

Hey, I'm going to get a dSLR for many of the advantages he stated.
But it won't be because the 828 can't take a decent picture, or
every shot has CA.

BTW saying that you can't use f/2 on the 828 is just plain wrong.

--
my favorite work:
http://www.pbase.com/sdaconsulting/featured_art&page=1

 

[Todd Meyers]

That was really what hurt about my decision, because the Sony 828 is such a great camera in so many ways, but the flaws are too much for me to deal with. I really miss the swivel body and shooting off of the LCD. And the zoom range is awesome.

You summed it up very well.

-Todd

I dont think people are frustrated with the 828 because it is, in
and of itself, a bad camera. I think they are frustrated because it
COULD be a BETTER camera.

 

[Shay Stephens]

Make your points, I am fine with that, camera doesn't meet your needs, fine, state why if you feel you need to, but when you toss in the digs, it becomes more like propoganda.

I don't understand the angry tone of your post, especially from you
of all people. I think my position is pretty reasonable, just as
there are reasonable people who will feel differently. But that's
no reason for anger to surface. Usually, anger is how we respond
when our attachment to a position is at least partly irrational.

-Todd

Nice try, but this is just a bunch of hooey. Just because you were
not honest with yourself, does not mean others are suffering from
the same delusion you were under. No camera is perfect, and it
sounds like you deep down wanted an SLR and finally found the
justification you needed to do so. Good for you. But don't
project that to the rest of us please.

Enjoy the Canon forum.

--
'Don't blame your camera, it's only doing what you make it do.'

--



Inferior Camera Photography - the newest extreme sport

 

[Todd Meyers]

Well I see how it comes off that way, but I wasn't meaning to do a camera vs. camera post. What I was meaning to do was share an experience with people that might help them prioritize their needs and give them my personal perspective.

I wasn't trying to get anyone to buy a DRebel, or not to buy the 828. Or even to say that the DRebel is a "better" camera than the 828. For some people, the 828 will be a better CHOICE. Heck, I have taken lots of S70 photos that still blow me away.

My main point was about the personal journey I went through to get beyond feeling irrationally loyal to Sony based on my prior experiences with the S70, F707 and F717. There are plenty who are equally loyal to Canon or Nikon or whatever...but blind loyalty is a mistake, if the goal is to make the best decision, then you need to make sure you've got an open mind. And that was my real point.

-Todd

Not too long ago somebody posted a pic on the 300D forum. The pic
was of a bee on a flower. The poster said (in effect): Sony can't
match this!

Another person then posted a link to a prize-winning 717 shot of a
bee hovering over a flower, everything in sharp focus, gorgeous!
The message was obvious.

I really like my 300D. I lose some pics due to my own limitations
and get some good shots as well. I suspect that most 828 owners are
like me: Their main limitations are themselves, not issues like CA
or noise. The camera, assuming some basic quality, is secondary,
and it's the photographer that counts.

While the 300D has some great points (optical TTL, low noise
levels, etc.) so does the 828 (all-in-one design, night shooting,
big fat wide-range lens, etc.) So be it.

I have a lot of great shots from my old Kodak 4800, much maligned
by Phile Askey and rightly so. They're still great shots. The 828
is so superior to the 4800 that it isn't funny. Is the 300D
"better" than the 828? Maybe yes, maybe no. Does it matter if you
really want to do photographs? Probably not.

Fellow STF'ers,

 

[Todd Meyers]

This probably opens me up to some attack, but no, I have not used the 828 myself. My opinion is based on all of the images I've seen, the reviews I've read and all of the posts here and elsewhere. I would certainly advise that if someone is interested in the 828, they should try it for themselves.

I'll spare you some of the details, but I originally bought my F717 at Sears with a replacement warranty. When it broke, they let me trade it for anything I wanted, so I got the DRebel. That was before the 828 was shipping. The manager said I could swap it for the 828 when that comes in if I would rather have the 828. So that's how I got my hands on the DRebel. When I brought it home, I thought it would be temporary, but as things have unfolded, I'm taking the best pictures of my life, and just thrilled with everything about the DRebel.

Maybe my post would have more credibility with some folks if I was saying "look at all the PF in these pictures I've taken with the 828." But there are enough people doing that here already. My post wasn't just about the cameras, but mainly about the personal journey of being a brand loyalist, and what it takes to overcome that irrational feeling.

-Todd

Fellow STF'ers,

Todd,

Very provocative indeed.
I have one question:
is your opinion based on actually using a F828 or merely formed by
reading what all of us are posting about it (positive and negative)

good luck with your D300,

Rob

 

[Todd Meyers]

LOL, yeah that's the circle of life.

-Todd

Well... the universe has a way of evening things out it would seem.
I've recently moved on from a few Canon cameras over here to the
STF and an 828.

 

[Todd Meyers]

Shay, what digs?

-Todd

I don't understand the angry tone of your post, especially from you
of all people. I think my position is pretty reasonable, just as
there are reasonable people who will feel differently. But that's
no reason for anger to surface. Usually, anger is how we respond
when our attachment to a position is at least partly irrational.

-Todd

Nice try, but this is just a bunch of hooey. Just because you were
not honest with yourself, does not mean others are suffering from
the same delusion you were under. No camera is perfect, and it
sounds like you deep down wanted an SLR and finally found the
justification you needed to do so. Good for you. But don't
project that to the rest of us please.

Enjoy the Canon forum.

--
'Don't blame your camera, it's only doing what you make it do.'

--



Inferior Camera Photography - the newest extreme sport

 

[Pongo]

This is not a post directed at you, but for the others out there
that take issue with Canon. I just figured it out.

Many diehard Sonybots have jealousy over Canon in particular
coursing through their veins. And I just realized the reasoning
behind most of that emotion. It's because Canon offers multiple
forums to post in and Sony has only one.

That's got to be it.

I think I'll change my username to EricGenius.

Does make it hard to understand why so many of them spend thier time here though.

 

[Shay Stephens]

"Some of you guys may get the 828 and never regret it, and you may enjoy staying up late at night removing purple fringing from all your pictures."

I was mostly ok with your post up until that line. That and the lines that followed made the post into a propaganda post. Your new found lack of respect for Sony users shows through here. Show respect, and you will receive respect.

I am glad however that you were able to shake your Sony first attitude, that is just not healthy. And I am glad you are finally getting the results you are looking for from your new Canon gear.

-Todd

I don't understand the angry tone of your post, especially from you
of all people. I think my position is pretty reasonable, just as
there are reasonable people who will feel differently. But that's
no reason for anger to surface. Usually, anger is how we respond
when our attachment to a position is at least partly irrational.

-Todd

Nice try, but this is just a bunch of hooey. Just because you were
not honest with yourself, does not mean others are suffering from
the same delusion you were under. No camera is perfect, and it
sounds like you deep down wanted an SLR and finally found the
justification you needed to do so. Good for you. But don't
project that to the rest of us please.

Enjoy the Canon forum.

--
'Don't blame your camera, it's only doing what you make it do.'

--



Inferior Camera Photography - the newest extreme sport

--



Inferior Camera Photography - the newest extreme sport

 

[Todd Meyers]

Shay,

You're jumping on one line out of my entire (very long) post.

What I wrote was actually based on the fact that I've seen people say they truly enjoy post-processing their pics to remove the PF. I can't understand how that would be an enjoyable thing, but it has been claimed. It wasn't a dig.

Throughout the thread, I've tried to keep my own comments low key and rational. Provocative perhaps, but hopefully because of the content rather than the tone. Maybe you are a little too sensitive.

I have great respect for many here, and a few I hold in the highest regard--among them, you. I wish you had given me the benefit of the doubt on a long and thoughtful post.

-Todd

I was mostly ok with your post up until that line. That and the
lines that followed made the post into a propaganda post. Your new
found lack of respect for Sony users shows through here. Show
respect, and you will receive respect.

I am glad however that you were able to shake your Sony first
attitude, that is just not healthy. And I am glad you are finally
getting the results you are looking for from your new Canon gear.

-Todd

I don't understand the angry tone of your post, especially from you
of all people. I think my position is pretty reasonable, just as
there are reasonable people who will feel differently. But that's
no reason for anger to surface. Usually, anger is how we respond
when our attachment to a position is at least partly irrational.

-Todd

Nice try, but this is just a bunch of hooey. Just because you were
not honest with yourself, does not mean others are suffering from
the same delusion you were under. No camera is perfect, and it
sounds like you deep down wanted an SLR and finally found the
justification you needed to do so. Good for you. But don't
project that to the rest of us please.

Enjoy the Canon forum.

--
'Don't blame your camera, it's only doing what you make it do.'

--



Inferior Camera Photography - the newest extreme sport

--



Inferior Camera Photography - the newest extreme sport

 

[lharris]

Hello all. Never a dull post these days...

As probably among one of the least advanced in photography on this forum--I do consider myself more of an expert due to my HR work in 'people' than in PS.

We cannot Post Process people.

Some things just jump out at me...

Some folks mean well, but lack the finesse in writing it down and written words, without facial expression come across harsher than they might otherwise be.

Some folks don't mean well-though we would like to hope so.

Some folks can make the same camera do different things. It is called experience.

Opinions are subjective things.

Some folks need validation and recognition.

Some folks feel guilty.

Some folks have too low self-esteem.

Others are too high in ego.

Whatever the case, and no--neither Shay nor I are trying to analyze anyone, I just hope to make these points that with every post all these other things come with the 'information'.

Some folks are elated and others seriously disappointed. I, for one, would not generalize the quality of Sony products by some issues with the releases of new and sophisticated electronics. Hey--I need a few times to make a new recipe work! I had to load a new bios on my laptop yesterday,

I cussed Dell to the ceiling for not telling me I needed to do that with my new battery. My anger was at the misinformation. my own computer ignorance, and Dell's assumption that their directions would be clear to the computer challenged.

So, I believe that Shay, and others are tyring hard to listen while still keeping the volume manageable.

I, too, returned my 828 as previously posted. But it was a hard choice and I am hopeful to either buy it back when the dust settles or see what the marketplace is offering in the next weeks and months, Meantime, I can just put that energy into learning more about my current skills.

I appreciate the feedback. I empathize with those who are having issues.
I applaud those who are simply enjoying and having fun with the 828.

And mostly, I enjoy some of the beautiful photographs when folks get a great shot or are asking for ways to improve rather than using photos as some form of 'evidence'.

A recent article in Parade Magazine discussed how much stress and anxiety exist in our society today because we simply have too many choices. Odd ailment in such an abundant society. And, I suffer from it as well. Seriously so.

My friends here and I share photos off-line. Some have the 707, A1, 10D, Rebel, 5050, FZ10. One is under 10 years old with a basic P & S.... The photos are always as good as the photographer...

Best to you all--and hello, Shay. .

Linda

 

[Todd Meyers]

Shay,

Is that your way of telling me I'm no longer welcome in the STF?

-Todd

Nice try, but this is just a bunch of hooey.

Enjoy the Canon forum.

 

[Todd Meyers]

This thread just hit the top of the list on the threads with the most activity in the last 48hrs. Pretty cool.

-Todd

 

[Shay Stephens]

Don't get your undies in a bunch ;-) I am assuming that since you now have Canon gear, you will be spending your time there. I wish you well in whatever forum you decide to hang your hat.

Is that your way of telling me I'm no longer welcome in the STF?

-Todd

Nice try, but this is just a bunch of hooey.

Enjoy the Canon forum.

--



Inferior Camera Photography - the newest extreme sport

 

[Shay Stephens]

Shay,

You're jumping on one line out of my entire (very long) post.

Yes, like I said, I was mostly ok with the post up until then.

What I wrote was actually based on the fact that I've seen people
say they truly enjoy post-processing their pics to remove the PF.
I can't understand how that would be an enjoyable thing, but it has
been claimed. It wasn't a dig.

Ok, I can see where you would be coming from there. I will accept your explanation of that.

Throughout the thread, I've tried to keep my own comments low key
and rational. Provocative perhaps, but hopefully because of the
content rather than the tone. Maybe you are a little too sensitive.

This is most certainly possible ;-)

I have great respect for many here, and a few I hold in the highest
regard--among them, you. I wish you had given me the benefit of
the doubt on a long and thoughtful post.

Your further posts in this thread do back up what you are saying was your intent. But, you must understand too that you dropped what looked like a bomb and then left, which is typical troll behavior, not saying you are a troll of course, it is now obvious that you are not. But all the signs pointed a different direction yesterday. I place you back on my list of people to read with pleasure and not suspicion Todd. My apologies for hurting your feelings and making you feel bad.

--



Inferior Camera Photography - the newest extreme sport

 

[Todd Meyers]

LOL, no hurt feelings. My "trollish" absence overnight was due to issues with a 6-month-old who refuses to sleep, and a 2-year-old who is constipated. Believe me, I would have preferred to be in the STF. And also because I didn't realize that this post would become such a hot topic.

-Todd

Shay,

You're jumping on one line out of my entire (very long) post.

Yes, like I said, I was mostly ok with the post up until then.

What I wrote was actually based on the fact that I've seen people
say they truly enjoy post-processing their pics to remove the PF.
I can't understand how that would be an enjoyable thing, but it has
been claimed. It wasn't a dig.

Ok, I can see where you would be coming from there. I will accept
your explanation of that.

Throughout the thread, I've tried to keep my own comments low key
and rational. Provocative perhaps, but hopefully because of the
content rather than the tone. Maybe you are a little too sensitive.

This is most certainly possible ;-)

I have great respect for many here, and a few I hold in the highest
regard--among them, you. I wish you had given me the benefit of
the doubt on a long and thoughtful post.

Your further posts in this thread do back up what you are saying
was your intent. But, you must understand too that you dropped
what looked like a bomb and then left, which is typical troll
behavior, not saying you are a troll of course, it is now obvious
that you are not. But all the signs pointed a different direction
yesterday. I place you back on my list of people to read with
pleasure and not suspicion Todd. My apologies for hurting your
feelings and making you feel bad.

--



Inferior Camera Photography - the newest extreme sport

 

[Todd Meyers]

Well honestly a lot of the folks in the Canon forums are bit too stuck up for my taste. I don't care for the elitism over there. And I really don't want my Sony flame to die out completely. I'm looking forward to whatever eventually replaces the 828 and hoping it's a winner.

-Todd

Is that your way of telling me I'm no longer welcome in the STF?

-Todd

Nice try, but this is just a bunch of hooey.

Enjoy the Canon forum.

--



Inferior Camera Photography - the newest extreme sport

 

[Todd Meyers]

Well if it wasn't my post that was provocative, then it must just be the Sony 828. Something sure got people's interest going, though.

-Todd

 

[Matthew Cromer]

You said some really out there, ridiculous things.

If you think the 300D and its kit lens is excellent quality, well I hope you enjoy them. I'm not going to go onto the Canon forum and enumerate their flaws.

--
my favorite work: http://www.pbase.com/sdaconsulting/featured_art&page=1

 

[Evil Eggplant]

My $60 50mm f1.8 prime is sharper than the Zeiss on my 717 or the
kit lens or my neighbor's 828. It's too bad the other prime lenses
aren't so cheap, else I'd skip zoom lenses entirely.

Truer words were never spoken. My 60 dollar 50mm f/1.8 totally blows away the CZ on my 707. There is no way a good zoom will work as well as a good prime.

This is my shooting buddy. At full size the detail here would blow your mind.



--
rich
'beware the eggplant'
c-7oo, d-51O, DSC-F7O7, 3OOD
'it's not having what you want, it's wanting what you got'
http://www.pbase.com/iceninevt