What I want to see in a future “Pen F”

[Regor250]

What would you like to see in a new Pen F model? ...

...

Does the OM-3 have all features that you can reasonably expect to find in a Pen F II? Do you believe that they could fit in a smaller body? With EVF (F series)? Without (P series)?

I don't think that's the right question...



I think the right question is: how come others can put in bigger sensors, and great features in bodies similar in size to the old Pen-F and why can't we improve the Pen-F without increasing the size?

FFS, the A7RC is no bigger than an A6700 or my old NEX7. If others can miniaturize their cameras, OM System can too. That said, if OM System has to make the Pen-F Mk II as thick as an A6700 I don't think most would complain if we can get something that can match it and even outperform it in some areas for the same price. I'll welcome the extra 3mm of body thickness for that.

Wrong interpretation. I did not imply that it was or was not possible.

No, it just begged this question. The short answer to your question is: Yes. A new sensor doesn't take up extra size, better AF won't take up room, I doubt the IBIS assembly on an OM3 is much bigger than the one in the Pen-F. The Pen-F EVF has room work with given it's on the outside corner... so yeah, it seems totally possible.

My example is showing that people are putting larger to much larger sensors and great features in bodies similar to Pen-F, size-wise.

The question is not, is it possible. The question is, is it profitable. The issue ain't the technology, but rather the market. Would you buy a $4000 Pen-Fii ?

--
Roger

 

[mfinley]

What would I like to see in a future Pen F... a OM-4 with a 30mp sensor that has everything in the OM-1.


I would hate to see OMS squander any hard-earned profits toward a niche camera like a revival Pen F that will be an economic catastrophe. They need to carefully spend every penny they have wisely in the most economically sensible fashion to remain viable.

 

[MEDISN]

It's the size, and the form factor for sliding it in/out of a jacket pocket without catching on the hump:

I shoot with both. The hump is angled, smooth and does not "grab" at pocket openings. No more of a hassle than the rubber eye cup on the PEN-F "grabbing" at pocket seams or bag linings when sliding it in EVF side first.

Let's put it this way, there is nowhere I would stuff a PEN-F that does not also hold the OM3.




The OM3 is pressed back to back with the PEN-F.




Both cameras standing on end, back to back.




Side-by-side, face down.

 

[James Stirling]

It's the size, and the form factor for sliding it in/out of a jacket pocket without catching on the hump:

I shoot with both. The hump is angled, smooth

Who would complain about a smooth angled hump

and does not "grab" at pocket openings. No more of a hassle than the rubber eye cup on the PEN-F "grabbing" at pocket seams or bag linings when sliding it in EVF side first.

Let's put it this way, there is nowhere I would stuff a PEN-F that does not also hold the OM3.


The OM3 is pressed back to back with the PEN-F.


Both cameras standing on end, back to back.


Side-by-side, face down.

--
Jim Stirling:
"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason, is like administering medicine to the dead." - Thomas Paine
Feel free to tinker with any photos I post

 

[cba_melbourne]

Another let’s all pray for the dead, but not buried.

I have never had a Pen F (well, technically yes with a film Pen F Half-frame).... but I have to ask the Pen Fer's here as to what they really object to with the OM3 that is so disliking that they still can't get over the Pen F? Is it really just RF for Hooded retro look?

I am still contemplating the OM-3, but the only reason I didn’t pull the switch (yet) is dimensions (and, let’s be honest, price too.) If the OM-3 had the dimensions of, let’s say, the OM-5 or, better yet, the PEN-F I wouldn’t have hesitated a moment.

The OM-3 has everything that one realistically wants or needs.

That said, I feel Olympus didn’t give the PEN-F a fighting chance. It released the E-M5 III a year later and was in every way better than the PEN-F could have been.

Sorry, you got that wrong, there were not one but 4 years in between:

January 2016: Pen-F release date, first Olympus with 20MP

December 2016: EM1.2

February 2019: EM1X

November 2019: EM5.3 release date, first Olympus m43 mid range plastic body

February 2020: EM1.3

I am sure if the PEN-F had the specs of the mkIII it would have sold like hot cakes...

For 10 months, the Pen-F was the only Oly camera with 20MP, that was as good a headstart as it gets. It was simply too expensive for it's time, and Olympus refused to significantly reduce it's price. The last Pen-F's sold out in 2020 for $900.

And the OM1.2 that followed was priced $2,000 at release, the Pen-F was $1,200 at release. Sure, had the Pen-F had the specs of the OM1.2, it would have outsold any other body. But that is not how flagship pricing works

As it was, the EM5.3 - 4 years later - had the innards of the EM1.2, but it did sell even less well than the Pen-F. In fact, Olympus did divest it's consumer camera division just 1 year after the EM5.3 release in January 2021. One could say the EM5.3 rot accellerated the downfall.

 

[Guy Parsons]

Plus maybe they might not be allowed to use the "Pen" naming, the same as the Olympus name had to be dropped on new cameras and lenses.

Yes they can. When the imaging division was divested, the new company was expressively and in writing given the full rights to the Zuiko and Pen and OMD brand names.

The only brand name they could not have is Olympus, but they were allowed to still use it during a then unspecified transitional period (which obviously ended recently).

Thanks for that info, and the more complete list in another thread https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/68361547

I was not aware that OM could use so many of the old names.

So the E-P6 development that turned into the Pen-F could still carry on with familiar naming. Note that they jumped from E-P5 to a much more modest E-P7 (probably was the E-PL11 project) and missed using the E-P6 naming.

 

[cba_melbourne]

What would I like to see in a future Pen F... a OM-4 with a 30mp sensor that has everything in the OM-1.

I would hate to see OMS squander any hard-earned profits

There are no "hard earned profits to squander"

They are yet to become profitable at all

toward a niche camera like a revival Pen F that will be an economic catastrophe. They need to carefully spend every penny they have wisely in the most economically sensible fashion to remain viable.

Right now, they have to be content to recycle whatever R&D they inherited from Olympus, and make the best possible of it. That is the reality of still being in the red's, and having no access to fresh risk capital.

Having a loyal customer base helps a lot though.

 

[the bluesman]

What would I like to see in a future Pen F... a OM-4 with a 30mp sensor that has everything in the OM-1.

I would hate to see OMS squander any hard-earned profits

There are no "hard earned profits to squander"

They are yet to become profitable at all

toward a niche camera like a revival Pen F that will be an economic catastrophe. They need to carefully spend every penny they have wisely in the most economically sensible fashion to remain viable.

Right now, they have to be content to recycle whatever R&D they inherited from Olympus, and make the best possible of it. That is the reality of still being in the red's, and having no access to fresh risk capital.

Having a loyal customer base helps a lot though.

I think OM Systems are doing a fantastic job of keeping the system going and I can see only good things ahead regardless, I'm more than happy with my OM-1 Mk2 and my OM-3 combo, bit like Batman & Robin, the Dynamic Duo

 

[AURA PA]

What would I like to see in a future Pen F... a OM-4 with a 30mp sensor that has everything in the OM-1.

I would hate to see OMS squander any hard-earned profits

There are no "hard earned profits to squander"

They are yet to become profitable at all

They have been profitable for years out from under Medical.

CP+ 2024 : OM System, en route vers la renaissance

Après avoir coupé le cordon avec la marque Olympus, OM System veut redéfinir son positionnement en axant sa communication sur la photographie de nature. Rencontre avec Sandro Rymann, chef de la branche européenne de OM System.

www.lesnumeriques.com

OM SYSTEM CP+2025 Interview: OM-3 Details, New Lens Details and Possible Futures - Imaging Resource

While in Yokohama, Japan for the annual CP+ 2025 trade show I was able to meet with executives from OM SYSTEM and ask them about their latest OM-3 camera model, recent lenses and their lens strategy and the fate of possible successors…

www.imaging-resource.com

 

[cba_melbourne]

What would I like to see in a future Pen F... a OM-4 with a 30mp sensor that has everything in the OM-1.

I would hate to see OMS squander any hard-earned profits

There are no "hard earned profits to squander"

They are yet to become profitable at all

They have been profitable for years out from under Medical.

https://www.lesnumeriques.com/appar...tem-en-route-vers-la-renaissance-n218988.html

https://www.imaging-resource.com/ne...3-details-100-400mm-and-future-lenses-pen-f-a

That French OM marketing guy surely knows how to spin facts around, kudos. Feels like listening to conversations in a used car sales yard.

 

[James Stirling]

What would I like to see in a future Pen F... a OM-4 with a 30mp sensor that has everything in the OM-1.

I would hate to see OMS squander any hard-earned profits

There are no "hard earned profits to squander"

They are yet to become profitable at all

They have been profitable for years out from under Medical.

https://www.lesnumeriques.com/appar...tem-en-route-vers-la-renaissance-n218988.html

https://www.imaging-resource.com/ne...3-details-100-400mm-and-future-lenses-pen-f-a

That French OM marketing guy surely knows how to spin facts around, kudos. Feels like listening to conversations in a used car sales yard.

I know meanwhile hard data from a very respected Japanese business publication where actual facts matter is ignored by the fanatics in their endless attempts to promote an agenda clear to everyone

The major Japanese business guide published actual unit sales last October for the entire world output of the Japanese makers. OM shipped the least units of any main brand

Direct link to publication

https://www.amazon.co.jp/dp/4492973346

A chart showing actual units shipped world wide by maker , posted for those of us who don’t speak Japanese



OM Digital Results 2021-2023

2023 … Sales: 29.2 billion yen / Operating profit: -210 million yen
2022 … Sales: 28.2 billion yen / Operating profit: -640 million yen
2021 … Sales: 21.9 billion yen / Operating profit: -1.8 billion yen

So thanks to major cost cutting and a very significant reduction in staff they are at least heading in the right direction. Hopefully they will establish a successful niche going forward .It is wishful thinking that m43 will ever be anything but a small niche player , but they don't need to be

I think the fanatics need some branding tips



--
Jim Stirling:
"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason, is like administering medicine to the dead." - Thomas Paine
Feel free to tinker with any photos I post

 

[Jaime100]

What would I like to see in a future Pen F... a OM-4 with a 30mp sensor that has everything in the OM-1.

I would hate to see OMS squander any hard-earned profits

There are no "hard earned profits to squander"

They are yet to become profitable at all

They have been profitable for years out from under Medical.

https://www.lesnumeriques.com/appar...tem-en-route-vers-la-renaissance-n218988.html

https://www.imaging-resource.com/ne...3-details-100-400mm-and-future-lenses-pen-f-a

That French OM marketing guy surely knows how to spin facts around, kudos. Feels like listening to conversations in a used car sales yard.

I know meanwhile hard data from a very respected Japanese business publication where actual facts matter is ignored by the fanatics in their endless attempts to promote an agenda clear to everyone

The major Japanese business guide published actual unit sales last October for the entire world output of the Japanese makers. OM shipped the least units of any main brand

Direct link to publication

https://www.amazon.co.jp/dp/4492973346

A chart showing actual units shipped world wide by maker , posted for those of us who don’t speak Japanese



OM Digital Results 2021-2023

2023 … Sales: 29.2 billion yen / Operating profit: -210 million yen
2022 … Sales: 28.2 billion yen / Operating profit: -640 million yen
2021 … Sales: 21.9 billion yen / Operating profit: -1.8 billion yen

So thanks to major cost cutting and a very significant reduction in staff they are at least heading in the right direction. Hopefully they will establish a successful niche going forward .It is wishful thinking that m43 will ever be anything but a small niche player , but they don't need to be

I think the fanatics need some branding tips

In some sense, sadly....I feel that OM systems exists because of JAPAN....without Japan, OM has let the world go by. Sadly though....sadly

--
jim lehmann https://jimlehmann.squarespace.com

 

[gary0319]

It's the size, and the form factor for sliding it in/out of a jacket pocket without catching on the hump:

I shoot with both. The hump is angled, smooth and does not "grab" at pocket openings. No more of a hassle than the rubber eye cup on the PEN-F "grabbing" at pocket seams or bag linings when sliding it in EVF side first.

Let's put it this way, there is nowhere I would stuff a PEN-F that does not also hold the OM3.


The OM3 is pressed back to back with the PEN-F.


Both cameras standing on end, back to back.


Side-by-side, face down.

Good comparison, thanks for posting.

 

[AURA PA]

What would I like to see in a future Pen F... a OM-4 with a 30mp sensor that has everything in the OM-1.

I would hate to see OMS squander any hard-earned profits

There are no "hard earned profits to squander"

They are yet to become profitable at all

They have been profitable for years out from under Medical.

https://www.lesnumeriques.com/appar...tem-en-route-vers-la-renaissance-n218988.html

https://www.imaging-resource.com/ne...3-details-100-400mm-and-future-lenses-pen-f-a

That French OM marketing guy surely knows how to spin facts around, kudos. Feels like listening to conversations in a used car sales yard.

I know meanwhile hard data from a very respected Japanese business publication where actual facts matter is ignored by the fanatics in their endless attempts to promote an agenda clear to everyone

The major Japanese business guide published actual unit sales last October for the entire world output of the Japanese makers. OM shipped the least units of any main brand

Direct link to publication

https://www.amazon.co.jp/dp/4492973346

A chart showing actual units shipped world wide by maker , posted for those of us who don’t speak Japanese



OM Digital Results 2021-2023

2023 … Sales: 29.2 billion yen / Operating profit: -210 million yen
2022 … Sales: 28.2 billion yen / Operating profit: -640 million yen
2021 … Sales: 21.9 billion yen / Operating profit: -1.8 billion yen

So thanks to major cost cutting and a very significant reduction in staff they are at least heading in the right direction. Hopefully they will establish a successful niche going forward .It is wishful thinking that m43 will ever be anything but a small niche player , but they don't need to be

Rather myopic to only quote rumored profit from the Japanese business unit while ignoring the rest of the world. We have direct sources at OMDS that state the business is profitable.

Besides, we all know how reliable the "Japanese #1 student guide to job hunting and applications" is!

 

[AURA PA]

What would I like to see in a future Pen F... a OM-4 with a 30mp sensor that has everything in the OM-1.

I would hate to see OMS squander any hard-earned profits

There are no "hard earned profits to squander"

They are yet to become profitable at all

They have been profitable for years out from under Medical.

https://www.lesnumeriques.com/appar...tem-en-route-vers-la-renaissance-n218988.html

https://www.imaging-resource.com/ne...3-details-100-400mm-and-future-lenses-pen-f-a

That French OM marketing guy surely knows how to spin facts around, kudos. Feels like listening to conversations in a used car sales yard.

A lot of words to say "I'm sorry I was misinformed".

 

[James Stirling]

What would I like to see in a future Pen F... a OM-4 with a 30mp sensor that has everything in the OM-1.

I would hate to see OMS squander any hard-earned profits

There are no "hard earned profits to squander"

They are yet to become profitable at all

They have been profitable for years out from under Medical.

https://www.lesnumeriques.com/appar...tem-en-route-vers-la-renaissance-n218988.html

https://www.imaging-resource.com/ne...3-details-100-400mm-and-future-lenses-pen-f-a

That French OM marketing guy surely knows how to spin facts around, kudos. Feels like listening to conversations in a used car sales yard.

A lot of words to say "I'm sorry I was misinformed".

It is you that is misinformed BS claims from a salesman are not facts.

--
Jim Stirling:
"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason, is like administering medicine to the dead." - Thomas Paine
Feel free to tinker with any photos I post

 

[James Stirling]

What would I like to see in a future Pen F... a OM-4 with a 30mp sensor that has everything in the OM-1.

I would hate to see OMS squander any hard-earned profits

There are no "hard earned profits to squander"

They are yet to become profitable at all

They have been profitable for years out from under Medical.

https://www.lesnumeriques.com/appar...tem-en-route-vers-la-renaissance-n218988.html

https://www.imaging-resource.com/ne...3-details-100-400mm-and-future-lenses-pen-f-a

That French OM marketing guy surely knows how to spin facts around, kudos. Feels like listening to conversations in a used car sales yard.

I know meanwhile hard data from a very respected Japanese business publication where actual facts matter is ignored by the fanatics in their endless attempts to promote an agenda clear to everyone

The major Japanese business guide published actual unit sales last October for the entire world output of the Japanese makers. OM shipped the least units of any main brand

Direct link to publication

https://www.amazon.co.jp/dp/4492973346

A chart showing actual units shipped world wide by maker , posted for those of us who don’t speak Japanese



OM Digital Results 2021-2023

2023 … Sales: 29.2 billion yen / Operating profit: -210 million yen
2022 … Sales: 28.2 billion yen / Operating profit: -640 million yen
2021 … Sales: 21.9 billion yen / Operating profit: -1.8 billion yen

So thanks to major cost cutting and a very significant reduction in staff they are at least heading in the right direction. Hopefully they will establish a successful niche going forward .It is wishful thinking that m43 will ever be anything but a small niche player , but they don't need to be

Rather myopic to only quote rumored profit from the Japanese business unit while ignoring the rest of the world. We have direct sources at OMDS that state the business is profitable.

Business publication do not post rumours. They post data , Salesmen lie through their teeth , how many lies did Olympus salesmen / officials spout when FT was dying for example. No employee of a company any company at an event is going to mention any trouble with the company.

There are no direct sources from OM saying they are profitable over the period discussed , the next edition of the publication is due next month. OM are heading in the right direction regarding losses so hopefully they will be on track this year

Besides, we all know how reliable the "Japanese #1 student guide to job hunting and applications" is!

I know it shocking that graduates looking for a career would want to know what businesses were doing well . Have you ever graduated ? Job hunting is rather important moving forward and researching the businesses you hope to be employed by to see how viable they are is the norm.

As I say i really really hope OM is paying you if not you and the "legion" have a serious problem

This could be a marketing aid for you . It is reflective of a fact denying , reality dodging fanatical mindset



And perhaps a theme song

--
Jim Stirling:
"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason, is like administering medicine to the dead." - Thomas Paine
Feel free to tinker with any photos I post

 

[James Stirling]

What would I like to see in a future Pen F... a OM-4 with a 30mp sensor that has everything in the OM-1.

I would hate to see OMS squander any hard-earned profits

There are no "hard earned profits to squander"

They are yet to become profitable at all

They have been profitable for years out from under Medical.

https://www.lesnumeriques.com/appar...tem-en-route-vers-la-renaissance-n218988.html

https://www.imaging-resource.com/ne...3-details-100-400mm-and-future-lenses-pen-f-a

That French OM marketing guy surely knows how to spin facts around, kudos. Feels like listening to conversations in a used car sales yard.

I know meanwhile hard data from a very respected Japanese business publication where actual facts matter is ignored by the fanatics in their endless attempts to promote an agenda clear to everyone

The major Japanese business guide published actual unit sales last October for the entire world output of the Japanese makers. OM shipped the least units of any main brand

Direct link to publication

https://www.amazon.co.jp/dp/4492973346

A chart showing actual units shipped world wide by maker , posted for those of us who don’t speak Japanese



OM Digital Results 2021-2023

2023 … Sales: 29.2 billion yen / Operating profit: -210 million yen
2022 … Sales: 28.2 billion yen / Operating profit: -640 million yen
2021 … Sales: 21.9 billion yen / Operating profit: -1.8 billion yen

So thanks to major cost cutting and a very significant reduction in staff they are at least heading in the right direction. Hopefully they will establish a successful niche going forward .It is wishful thinking that m43 will ever be anything but a small niche player , but they don't need to be

I think the fanatics need some branding tips

In some sense, sadly....I feel that OM systems exists because of JAPAN....without Japan, OM has let the world go by. Sadly though....sadly

I think that the numbers market share thing has obviously declined but they have reduced losses significantly . The new edition of the publication is due out next month so we will see if they are back in black. OM are never going to market leaders but they can dig out a viable niche

--
Jim Stirling:
"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason, is like administering medicine to the dead." - Thomas Paine
Feel free to tinker with any photos I post

 

[mring1]

Especially after reading some of the responses to the OP. SOOO many folks saying "gotta have this or that..." and by the time you subtract the people who say. "without (this) it's a no go for me..."

By my calculations, about 735 people will buy the Pen Mk II. (sarcasm with off).

Seriously, I really enjoyed using mine, but it wasn't some piece of magic. Especially the AF...even S-AF. Color was really nice, but not otherworldly. Nobody ever came up to me and asked, "Is that a Leica?" The Color Profile options were awesome. Tons of fun, and now replicated on the OM-3.

My OM-3 is better by EVERY measure. It works fine with my 12-40, 8-25 and 35-100 Pany. I rented the 100-400 and even that works ok, although it does need the external grip. And the focus speed is...amazing.

Gotta give some love to the OP. He had no idea what kind of "stuff" he'd stirred up.

 

[jjbinx]

I can't see the point of a PEN-F now that the OM-3 is out. The PEN E-P7 or successor is another matter.

I think the point would be that some folks want an advanced rangefinder style camera.
The OM-3 is styled as a film-era SLR, not a rangefinder

jj