Auto mode by experienced photographers

[petrochemist]

I do not understand why so many people complain about using P (Program) mode. For me, it is in most situations a good starting point. If i have special requirements in a situation i can use program-shift and/or exposure-compensation. Since the invention of matrix-metering the camera has in most cases a good guess of the right exposure.

Using (or rely on) P-mode allows me to be more focused on framing.

For me, all the preaching that (full-)manual is a prerequisite for good photos is a type of snobbism.

I've got nothing against P, it's just a more flexible semi auto mode. I don't use it much as I started on Av & find it works for me most of the time. It's normally at airshows where Tv comes into it's own for me. Here I have Av with the aperture near wide open for jets & a quick switch to Tv for propellor craft. No need to adjust to the right region when switching mode the camera remembers where it was earlier.

I think some of those preaching manual only, purely shoot in studios with the lighting under their control. Manual is ideal for this. They just can't understand that lots of photography involves fast changing situations, where frequently some key parameters can simply be left to whatever works (let the camera decide).

I tried using P but I dislike it strongly. The problem I run into is that when you “shift” the exposure, it can shift ISO instead of Aperture/Shutter. Unless I assign the ISO, the P mode is no good for me.
The new Canons have an Fv mode which tries to get around that by automatically setting shutter/aperture/iso, but you can override any 1 or even all three. Maybe I’ll try it someday, but I’m an Old Dog.

I think my digital cameras all allow me to specify which wheel changes what in P mode, but I don't use it much so that may only be the case on the DSLRs. (where I have the rear wheel adjust aperture/shutter speed as a pair & the front wheel do EC. If I want to adjust ISO I typically use a secondary button with the wheel (this option is not available on all my digital bodys).

Think about it: In a film camera, when you set P mode and you need a faster shutter, you spin the wheel and it shifts the exposure. But if you have AutoISO, you spin the wheel and it might change your shutter speed or it might change your ISO. And then you curse out loud and people give you funny looks.

I may have auto ISO but I wouldn't use it with P.

It does work well when I have a fixed aperture lens & want a specific speed.

 

[MarshallG]

I do not understand why so many people complain about using P (Program) mode. For me, it is in most situations a good starting point. If i have special requirements in a situation i can use program-shift and/or exposure-compensation. Since the invention of matrix-metering the camera has in most cases a good guess of the right exposure.

Using (or rely on) P-mode allows me to be more focused on framing.

For me, all the preaching that (full-)manual is a prerequisite for good photos is a type of snobbism.

I've got nothing against P, it's just a more flexible semi auto mode. I don't use it much as I started on Av & find it works for me most of the time. It's normally at airshows where Tv comes into it's own for me. Here I have Av with the aperture near wide open for jets & a quick switch to Tv for propellor craft. No need to adjust to the right region when switching mode the camera remembers where it was earlier.

I think some of those preaching manual only, purely shoot in studios with the lighting under their control. Manual is ideal for this. They just can't understand that lots of photography involves fast changing situations, where frequently some key parameters can simply be left to whatever works (let the camera decide).

I tried using P but I dislike it strongly. The problem I run into is that when you “shift” the exposure, it can shift ISO instead of Aperture/Shutter. Unless I assign the ISO, the P mode is no good for me.
The new Canons have an Fv mode which tries to get around that by automatically setting shutter/aperture/iso, but you can override any 1 or even all three. Maybe I’ll try it someday, but I’m an Old Dog.

I think my digital cameras all allow me to specify which wheel changes what in P mode, but I don't use it much so that may only be the case on the DSLRs. (where I have the rear wheel adjust aperture/shutter speed as a pair & the front wheel do EC. If I want to adjust ISO I typically use a secondary button with the wheel (this option is not available on all my digital bodys).

Think about it: In a film camera, when you set P mode and you need a faster shutter, you spin the wheel and it shifts the exposure. But if you have AutoISO, you spin the wheel and it might change your shutter speed or it might change your ISO. And then you curse out loud and people give you funny looks.

I may have auto ISO but I wouldn't use it with P.

It does work well when I have a fixed aperture lens & want a specific speed.

Interesting discussion! I think P with a fixed Aperture lens is the same as Aperture Priority mode.

I agree that P with Manual ISO is workable, but do you think that's practical? Usually I care more about my Shutter and/or Aperture setting than I do about the ISO floating up or down. I think that P mode was cool in the film era. For me, not any more.

 

[petrochemist]

I do not understand why so many people complain about using P (Program) mode. For me, it is in most situations a good starting point. If i have special requirements in a situation i can use program-shift and/or exposure-compensation. Since the invention of matrix-metering the camera has in most cases a good guess of the right exposure.

Using (or rely on) P-mode allows me to be more focused on framing.

For me, all the preaching that (full-)manual is a prerequisite for good photos is a type of snobbism.

I've got nothing against P, it's just a more flexible semi auto mode. I don't use it much as I started on Av & find it works for me most of the time. It's normally at airshows where Tv comes into it's own for me. Here I have Av with the aperture near wide open for jets & a quick switch to Tv for propellor craft. No need to adjust to the right region when switching mode the camera remembers where it was earlier.

I think some of those preaching manual only, purely shoot in studios with the lighting under their control. Manual is ideal for this. They just can't understand that lots of photography involves fast changing situations, where frequently some key parameters can simply be left to whatever works (let the camera decide).

I tried using P but I dislike it strongly. The problem I run into is that when you “shift” the exposure, it can shift ISO instead of Aperture/Shutter. Unless I assign the ISO, the P mode is no good for me.
The new Canons have an Fv mode which tries to get around that by automatically setting shutter/aperture/iso, but you can override any 1 or even all three. Maybe I’ll try it someday, but I’m an Old Dog.

I think my digital cameras all allow me to specify which wheel changes what in P mode, but I don't use it much so that may only be the case on the DSLRs. (where I have the rear wheel adjust aperture/shutter speed as a pair & the front wheel do EC. If I want to adjust ISO I typically use a secondary button with the wheel (this option is not available on all my digital bodys).

Think about it: In a film camera, when you set P mode and you need a faster shutter, you spin the wheel and it shifts the exposure. But if you have AutoISO, you spin the wheel and it might change your shutter speed or it might change your ISO. And then you curse out loud and people give you funny looks.

I may have auto ISO but I wouldn't use it with P.

It does work well when I have a fixed aperture lens & want a specific speed.

Interesting discussion! I think P with a fixed Aperture lens is the same as Aperture Priority mode.

I agree that P with Manual ISO is workable, but do you think that's practical? Usually I care more about my Shutter and/or Aperture setting than I do about the ISO floating up or down. I think that P mode was cool in the film era. For me, not any more.

I don't often use P myself. Yes it's effective the same as Av, if the aperture is fixed - but from what I've heard that's not how it's usually used.

When I've used auto ISO it's often effectively (or actually) been in M. I've heard some cameras don't allow this when in manual which is a lost opportunity IMO. I'm not suggesting M should always use auto ISO (far from it) just it can be a useful option

Using a mirror lens (fixed aperture) to shoot propellor aircraft (I want prop blur) I set the shutter speed & hope ISO can deal with it. One time with the A7ii I found the camera wouldn't use the enabled extended low ISO while on auto ISO (why not Sony??) My shots were constantly blown out.

 

[Jeffry7]

Hi all,

I would like to hear from experienced photographers who have done the reverse switch i.e moved from Manual mode or an Aperture mode etc to full Auto mode and be as happy as before( if not more).

 

[PankajDubey]

Hi all,

I would like to hear from experienced photographers who have done the reverse switch i.e moved from Manual mode or an Aperture mode etc to full Auto mode and be as happy as before( if not more).

I can't really use full auto with wide aperture lenses. It just defaults to wide open all the time.

In Program, it defaults to wide open every time when turned off/on. It doesn't do that in Aperture Mode.

I didn't notice it much with a P&S or slow zoom lens, but after using fast primes, it's hard to go back, even to compare.

Thanks,

good points- I used it with zooms so it is hard to work out the difference between max aperture of f4 going to f6.5.

 

[jiberlin]

I do not understand why so many people complain about using P (Program) mode. For me, it is in most situations a good starting point. If i have special requirements in a situation i can use program-shift and/or exposure-compensation. Since the invention of matrix-metering the camera has in most cases a good guess of the right exposure.

Using (or rely on) P-mode allows me to be more focused on framing.

For me, all the preaching that (full-)manual is a prerequisite for good photos is a type of snobbism.

I've got nothing against P, it's just a more flexible semi auto mode. I don't use it much as I started on Av & find it works for me most of the time. It's normally at airshows where Tv comes into it's own for me. Here I have Av with the aperture near wide open for jets & a quick switch to Tv for propellor craft. No need to adjust to the right region when switching mode the camera remembers where it was earlier.

I think some of those preaching manual only, purely shoot in studios with the lighting under their control. Manual is ideal for this. They just can't understand that lots of photography involves fast changing situations, where frequently some key parameters can simply be left to whatever works (let the camera decide).

I tried using P but I dislike it strongly. The problem I run into is that when you “shift” the exposure, it can shift ISO instead of Aperture/Shutter. Unless I assign the ISO, the P mode is no good for me.

Do you try to shift beyond the possible range of aperture or the set auto-ISO minimum shutter speed? Or is is the program-shift implemented in a very weird way on Canon-R?

On Nikon cameras program shift is always implemented the same way: You can only shift in the range of the diagonal in the aperture-shutter diagram:


From the D200 manual

 

[MarshallG]

I do not understand why so many people complain about using P (Program) mode. For me, it is in most situations a good starting point. If i have special requirements in a situation i can use program-shift and/or exposure-compensation. Since the invention of matrix-metering the camera has in most cases a good guess of the right exposure.

Using (or rely on) P-mode allows me to be more focused on framing.

For me, all the preaching that (full-)manual is a prerequisite for good photos is a type of snobbism.

I've got nothing against P, it's just a more flexible semi auto mode. I don't use it much as I started on Av & find it works for me most of the time. It's normally at airshows where Tv comes into it's own for me. Here I have Av with the aperture near wide open for jets & a quick switch to Tv for propellor craft. No need to adjust to the right region when switching mode the camera remembers where it was earlier.

I think some of those preaching manual only, purely shoot in studios with the lighting under their control. Manual is ideal for this. They just can't understand that lots of photography involves fast changing situations, where frequently some key parameters can simply be left to whatever works (let the camera decide).

I tried using P but I dislike it strongly. The problem I run into is that when you “shift” the exposure, it can shift ISO instead of Aperture/Shutter. Unless I assign the ISO, the P mode is no good for me.

Do you try to shift beyond the possible range of aperture or the set auto-ISO minimum shutter speed? Or is is the program-shift implemented in a very weird way on Canon-R?

On Nikon cameras program shift is always implemented the same way: You can only shift in the range of the diagonal in the aperture-shutter diagram:


From the D200 manual

Your chart assumes ISO 200

 

[jiberlin]

...

On Nikon cameras program shift is always implemented the same way: You can only shift in the range of the diagonal in the aperture-shutter diagram:


From the D200 manual

Your chart assumes ISO 200

I have included the picture to clarify my wording ' the diagonal in the aperture-shutter diagram'. On Nikon program-shift does not change Auto-ISO, at least if i stay above the set minimum shutter speed.

 

[MarshallG]

...

On Nikon cameras program shift is always implemented the same way: You can only shift in the range of the diagonal in the aperture-shutter diagram:


From the D200 manual

Your chart assumes ISO 200

I have included the picture to clarify my wording ' the diagonal in the aperture-shutter diagram'. On Nikon program-shift does not change Auto-ISO, at least if i stay above the set minimum shutter speed.

Let’s say the camera chooses AutoISO 400, f/2.8 at 1/30, but you want a 1/125 shutter. If you turn the Shift dial two stops, the Nikon will open the lens to f/1.4, set your shutter to 1/125, and your ISO will remain at 400? Cause Canon will change the ISO. Or, maybe they won’t. I’m sure there’s an algorithm behind it but it’s easier for me to just use a different exposure mode.



Of course, I respect that there are many shooting styles and I don’t think what I do is superior to anybody else’s. I have my reasons for avoiding P Mode, but others are welcome to enjoy it.

 

[BBbuilder467]

...

On Nikon cameras program shift is always implemented the same way: You can only shift in the range of the diagonal in the aperture-shutter diagram:


From the D200 manual

Your chart assumes ISO 200

I have included the picture to clarify my wording ' the diagonal in the aperture-shutter diagram'. On Nikon program-shift does not change Auto-ISO, at least if i stay above the set minimum shutter speed.

I think that's the point. You're assuming you can stay above a given shutter speed at the aperture and ISO. If you need f/11, you would have to increase the ISO to get the shutter speed, the same as Aperture Mode. I can't shoot wide open all the time with a fast lens.

 

[petrochemist]

...

On Nikon cameras program shift is always implemented the same way: You can only shift in the range of the diagonal in the aperture-shutter diagram:


From the D200 manual

Your chart assumes ISO 200

I have included the picture to clarify my wording ' the diagonal in the aperture-shutter diagram'. On Nikon program-shift does not change Auto-ISO, at least if i stay above the set minimum shutter speed.

I think that's the point. You're assuming you can stay above a given shutter speed at the aperture and ISO. If you need f/11, you would have to increase the ISO to get the shutter speed, the same as Aperture Mode. I can't shoot wide open all the time with a fast lens.

Whatever camera system you use there will be a set of rules that determines how the camera behaves in cases like this. With a bit of effort you can find out what these rules are, but personally I wouldn't combine auto features if I want specific settings.

 

[Hike Pics]

Just a few years ago I met an older pro photographer. He used to teach photography and has had many photos in various publications, of course going all the way back to film days.

When I met him he was shooting a Sony a5000 or newer (can't remember exactly) with a nice Sony tele lens. He said he shoots in Auto because, at his age now, the camera can think faster than he can.

Depending on age, circumstances and subjects I would say Auto is a very valid mode. The times I have used it I have been very surprised.

 

[PankajDubey]

Just a few years ago I met an older pro photographer. He used to teach photography and has had many photos in various publications, of course going all the way back to film days.

When I met him he was shooting a Sony a5000 or newer (can't remember exactly) with a nice Sony tele lens. He said he shoots in Auto because, at his age now, the camera can think faster than he can.

Depending on age, circumstances and subjects I would say Auto is a very valid mode. The times I have used it I have been very surprised.

That is a very good point

 

[petrochemist]

Just a few years ago I met an older pro photographer. He used to teach photography and has had many photos in various publications, of course going all the way back to film days.

When I met him he was shooting a Sony a5000 or newer (can't remember exactly) with a nice Sony tele lens. He said he shoots in Auto because, at his age now, the camera can think faster than he can.

Depending on age, circumstances and subjects I would say Auto is a very valid mode. The times I have used it I have been very surprised.

That sounds to me like someone singing the praises of a semi automatic mode & referring to it as auto (in that it's not full manual). Even if not aperture/shutter priority semi auto modes, it may be he's referring to Program (which is usable as a overridable automatic). In the semi auto modes the photographer only selects what matters to them & lets the camera think faster to get the rest. To someone starting on full manual these can seem like auto

Full auto is generally a very different beast, that's been dumbed down & refuse to allow the photographer to select things for themselves. On my cameras full auto doesn't even allow the white balance to be adjusted - something that often changes quite slowly...

 

[Hike Pics]

All I know is that he specifically said Auto. I think he's been around cameras long enough to know Program from Auto. I inquired about the weight of his kit, he kindly handed it to me and it was a bit heavy. The a5000 doesn't have a mode dial so I didn't see the "green".

There are also times when you have to be fast and either trust Auto or use the settings from your last shot. That happened to me last weekend. I had been shooting still subjects. Quickly, a decorated farm tractor comes around the corner with newlyweds. I turned to Auto mode, turned the camera on and zoomed out while I was putting the viewfinder up to my eye. Seconds were all I had. I got the shot. If I had left the camera in the same settings as my last shot the subject would have been blurred.

 

[MarshallG]

All I know is that he specifically said Auto. I think he's been around cameras long enough to know Program from Auto. I inquired about the weight of his kit, he kindly handed it to me and it was a bit heavy. The a5000 doesn't have a mode dial so I didn't see the "green".

There are also times when you have to be fast and either trust Auto or use the settings from your last shot. That happened to me last weekend. I had been shooting still subjects. Quickly, a decorated farm tractor comes around the corner with newlyweds. I turned to Auto mode, turned the camera on and zoomed out while I was putting the viewfinder up to my eye. Seconds were all I had. I got the shot. If I had left the camera in the same settings as my last shot the subject would have been blurred.

I’ve been a photographer for decades and I understand the technology very, very well. The term “Automatic” has been used to describe camera features since the 1950’s. There’s nothing more certain than stating that the terms “Manual” and “Automatic” have no definite meanings in photography.



If you want to learn, ignore anyone who says “Use Auto” or “Use Manual,” because they don’t know enough about photography to know that those two terms are completely ambiguous unless you are more specific. Even “Use Manual Exposure” is confusing because it doesn’t specify whether the ISO and flash settings are to be set manually or automatically. I’m not trying to be pedantic or argumentative; it’s just that if someone doesn’t know how to tell you what they mean, then they probably don’t know what they’re talking about.

 

[Hike Pics]

I apologize for not really understanding your statement in context. The statement the photographer made was that he was using the camera's Auto mode. Whatever that means internally is decided by the camera. I don't have an A5000 so I don't know first hand it's internals.

Should he have said he uses auto shutter, auto aperture, auto ISO, auto metering, etc at the exact same?

The OP asked if anyone uses full Auto mode. It is for certain that the photographer I talked to does. Whether he does ALL the time I do not know.

 

[PankajDubey]

All I know is that he specifically said Auto. I think he's been around cameras long enough to know Program from Auto. I inquired about the weight of his kit, he kindly handed it to me and it was a bit heavy. The a5000 doesn't have a mode dial so I didn't see the "green".

There are also times when you have to be fast and either trust Auto or use the settings from your last shot. That happened to me last weekend. I had been shooting still subjects. Quickly, a decorated farm tractor comes around the corner with newlyweds. I turned to Auto mode, turned the camera on and zoomed out while I was putting the viewfinder up to my eye. Seconds were all I had. I got the shot. If I had left the camera in the same settings as my last shot the subject would have been blurred.

I’ve been a photographer for decades and I understand the technology very, very well. The term “Automatic” has been used to describe camera features since the 1950’s. There’s nothing more certain than stating that the terms “Manual” and “Automatic” have no definite meanings in photography.

If you want to learn, ignore anyone who says “Use Auto” or “Use Manual,” because they don’t know enough about photography to know that those two terms are completely ambiguous unless you are more specific. Even “Use Manual Exposure” is confusing because it doesn’t specify whether the ISO and flash settings are to be set manually or automatically.

….

I’m not trying to be pedantic or argumentative; it’s just that if someone doesn’t know how to tell you what they mean, then they probably don’t know what they’re talking about.

The last part was very eloquently dealt with by Bernard in BBC series Yes Prime-minister :

Episode Six: A Victory for Democracy

Hacker: You just said that the Foreign Office was keeping something from me! How do you know if you don't know?

…..

Bernard: May I just clarify the question? You are asking who would know what it is that I don't know and you don't know but the Foreign Office know that they know that they are keeping from you so that you don't know but they do know and all we know there is something we don't know and we want to know but we don't know what because we don't know! Is that it?

 

[MarshallG]

I apologize for not really understanding your statement in context. The statement the photographer made was that he was using the camera's Auto mode. Whatever that means internally is decided by the camera. I don't have an A5000 so I don't know first hand it's internals.

Should he have said he uses auto shutter, auto aperture, auto ISO, auto metering, etc at the exact same?

The OP asked if anyone uses full Auto mode. It is for certain that the photographer I talked to does. Whether he does ALL the time I do not know.

I’ve only used professional bodies for the past decade, so I had to check whether mine has a Full Auto Mode. It has something called A+ mode, which I’d set if my wife wants to take photos with my camera.



But even that mode is a pain because the Mode dial on my camera is electronic and I’ve disabled all the modes except the Aperture preferred, Shutter preferred and Manual. I had to find a menu to un-disable A+ and then try it. It made a whole lot of other menu options disappear. I don’t know which controls work and which don’t in A+ mode so it’s not easily usable for me but it’s fine for Wife Mode…. Though she’d just pull out her iPhone and shoot while I’m trying to put the camera in A+ Mode.



I think the minds of most advanced photographers aren’t wired to just pick up a camera and do nothing but press the shutter release. When I shoot I concentrate on all the variables that lead to a finished print and then I adjust to deliver that. So I can’t really relate to using an advanced camera that gives me no control.

 

[Jeffry7]

I apologize for not really understanding your statement in context. The statement the photographer made was that he was using the camera's Auto mode. Whatever that means internally is decided by the camera. I don't have an A5000 so I don't know first hand it's internals.

Should he have said he uses auto shutter, auto aperture, auto ISO, auto metering, etc at the exact same?

The OP asked if anyone uses full Auto mode. It is for certain that the photographer I talked to does. Whether he does ALL the time I do not know.

I’ve only used professional bodies for the past decade, so I had to check whether mine has a Full Auto Mode. It has something called A+ mode, which I’d set if my wife wants to take photos with my camera.

But even that mode is a pain because the Mode dial on my camera is electronic and I’ve disabled all the modes except the Aperture preferred, Shutter preferred and Manual. I had to find a menu to un-disable A+ and then try it. It made a whole lot of other menu options disappear. I don’t know which controls work and which don’t in A+ mode so it’s not easily usable for me but it’s fine for Wife Mode…. Though she’d just pull out her iPhone and shoot while I’m trying to put the camera in A+ Mode.

I think the minds of most advanced photographers aren’t wired to just pick up a camera and do nothing but press the shutter release. When I shoot I concentrate on all the variables that lead to a finished print and then I adjust to deliver that. So I can’t really relate to using an advanced camera that gives me no control.

One of the things I like about photography, is using the camera. I like interacting with it. Smartphone photography is less satisfying because it is just a button push while awkwardly holding the phone. Yes you can use the phone with a pro app and control everything, but it isn't as satisfying as using a camera that was purpose built to let you take control.