Softboxes and shadows

[Ronnie99]

Wow, thanks so much. I'm going to change to an octobox softfbox and see how it goes. I really appreciate it. I can't really tell how far he has it in from of his subject but I will try various distances.

I just had a look at your website. Very inspiring. Hoping to be able to make better images in the near future.

Thanks again

 

[Ellis Vener]

Wow, thanks so much. I'm going to change to an octobox softfbox and see how it goes.

Even if the diagonal is the same, An octabox will create a broader light. Are you sure that it is what you want? My opinion is that a rectangular shape softbox will work better.

I really appreciate it. I can't really tell how far he has it in from of his subject but I will try various distances.

Also, try adjusting the height. While not large, I recollect that Norton's studio has a reasonably high ceiling.

The number one rule of lighting a subject is to set up the light and shoot a test. Then, if the result doesn't please you, move the light - up, down, sideways, and closer or farther rather than immediately trying a different modifier.

--
Ellis Vener
A working photographer since 1984.
To see my work, please visit http://www.ellisvener.com
Or on Instagram @EllisVenerStudio

 

[Don89]

Shadows matter. Buy the flash modifier to pay for the shadow.

1st photo - Note the dark/light/dark shadow on the background with that 5 foot octa

second photo with a 4x6 softbox

third Broncolor Para 133 directly next to model

fourth pic 4x6 softbox with mask

5th pic Broncolor Para 133 usual beauty dish location

last pic, Broncolor Para 222 left of camera

dont get stuck with just one “look” . Have a vision and create the look.













--
Nikons, Rolleiflexes, Elinchroms, Broncolor Paras

 

[Ellis Vener]

As Norton suggests in the first seconds of the video, take a look at Irving Penn's portrait work. https://irvingpenn.org/portraits

For photographers, Irving Penn is close to what Robert Johnson, Muddy Waters, Chuck Berry, and Little Richard are for blues-based rock & roll.

From the angle the video is shot from, it appears the softbox is set up slightly in front of Larene. Notice too how high the center of the softbox is above the top of her head, placing the bottom edge slightly below her shoulders. And as you have noted, the softbox is aimed across her, not pointing at her or the background.

 

[Ronnie99]

As Norton suggests in the first seconds of the video, take a look at Irving Penn's portrait work. https://irvingpenn.org/portraits
For photographers, Irving Penn is close to what Robert Johnson, Muddy Waters, Chuck Berry, and Little Richard are for blues-based rock & roll.
From the angle the video is shot from, it appears the softbox is set up slightly in front of Larene. Notice too how high the center of the softbox is above the top of her head, placing the bottom edge slightly below her shoulders. And as you have noted, the softbox is aimed across her, not pointing at her or the background.

 

[Ed Shapiro]

I hate to be an old "stick-in-the-mud" but the brands of the equipment BRANDS in use have little to do with light technique and analysis of any given lighting example. Hasselblad Profoto gear is certainly top-of-the-line equipment but the lighting can be achieved with any decent gear proving the photograher understands the dynamics of light and how the quality of light (hard, soft, or somewhere in between). the effect of the relative size of the light source as it relates to the size of the subject, the dist the said lig source is placed from the subject and the placement of the light as to height and angle for the camera/subject axis. The transition of highlight to shade depends on all of the aforementioned factors. The other important aspects to understand are correct exposure, how to establish lighting ratio, and how to address the dynamic range of the camera system in use.

Another issue to consider is the language of light forms. If I were with a student of light, it wod be easy enough to show how to create a certain classical light pattern on a subject's face. If we are communicating on the Internet, some understandable terms and language are necessary. There are certain traditional lighting forms that are, at least, a good standard for communications. In portraiture the are the following: butterfly, modified butterfly (loop), Rembrandt, split, and accent or kicker. None of these are carved in stone or stringent rules, however, they are important basics.
The other indicators are broad or short light positions. Combing all these elements enables the photograher to produce a good likeness, a flattering interpretation of the subject, and the ability to address different facial structures ad features. . It is a method of "sculpting the face with light".

The camera's position in relation to the subjects and various views of the face need to be integrated with lighting. Again, the standard traditional viewed are full face, 2/3 face, and profile. A good starting point as to camer height for a head shot or head and shoulders portrait image is to approximate the subject's eye level or slightly higher.

So- The example you have posted:

The colour shot is a broad light- somewhere between and Loop and Rembrandt, indicated by the shadow bias bt the nose thereby creating a kinda triangular highlight on the shadow side of the face. The catch-lights in the eyes indicate the height of the main source correctly as to illuminate the eyes. There is detail in the shadows so there may have been a reflector in use or the unseen secondary light, that is, extraneous lig for the main source bouncing are the room was enough to illuminate the shadows sufficiently. The camera position is lo. Full-face view.

The black and white image- the light and view of the face are similar but there is less shadow detail. That may be caused by the removal of the reflector or other unseen fill source. The came position is higher.

It is obvious in the accompanying image of the studio setup that there is a large defused light source in use. I am sure the Profoto softbox is great but any similar softbox should do the job. There are other factors to consider such as the placement of the moonlight in the box. There is be more diffusion if the light bounces off the back of the box and then is projected forward through the front scrim. Usually, more light (volume) is emitted for the side of a bare flash tube than for the front. Soe softboxes have a secondary scrip inside the box to accommodate a moonlight with a reflector aimed forward directly toward the scrim. Once you have maximized the diffusion of the softbox you can vary the /hardness by chang the distance- the closer the softer and the smoother the transition from highlight to shadow- the furtherer the slightly harder and a more delineated the difference between the highlights and shadows.

Wir softboxes, feathering is a ticklish business! It does not have exactly the same effect as doing so with a parabolic reflector or a spotlight. You can lig the subject with the edge of the beam and allow the other edge or middle of the beam to strike a reflector to act as fill.

The problem is with many of these online videos is although they are somewhat informative, mamu are designed to promote equipment of particular brands. That's well and good but they seldom do not get it the generic theory whereby you can do the same work in the same style with any similar system or even an improvised workaround.

The best thing is, take a shot with what you got and post it here. I'll bet you can pull it off once you knew exactly what to do. It's OK to try and emulate someone else's as a starting exercise. Once you practice and master lighting, you can replicate may other styles and more importantly, yo will be able to create a sty of you own style and methods. Following instructions and studying lighting diagrams is good for the basics but with practice, all you will need to do is turn the lights and study the effect on your subject and placing the lights will become second nature.


Ed Shapiro- Commercial and Portrait Photographer. Ottawa, Ontario Canada

 

[Richard Hopkins]

As Norton suggests in the first seconds of the video, take a look at Irving Penn's portrait work. https://irvingpenn.org/portraits
For photographers, Irving Penn is close to what Robert Johnson, Muddy Waters, Chuck Berry, and Little Richard are for blues-based rock & roll.
From the angle the video is shot from, it appears the softbox is set up slightly in front of Larene. Notice too how high the center of the softbox is above the top of her head, placing the bottom edge slightly below her shoulders. And as you have noted, the softbox is aimed across her, not pointing at her or the background.

Thanks again. I will watch the video again and hope to get it right one of these days. I tried again with a new modifier, an octobox and as you said it the light source was too wide. Since I don't have a 2x3 soft box I will continue to use my umbrella. I'll post new pictures tomorrow.

I really love Irving Penns work, especially his use of shadows. I actually found Norton's video by searching for Irving Penn lighting. His corner portraits are amazing as well as his still life work. In fact I hate to say that I'm growing a bit frustrated with portraiture and I may start trying something new like still life.

One of my problems with portraiture is that I haven't been able to practice with too many people other than myself. I may place an online ad or look for a place where I can find models who are starting out.

I just looked at your website and find your portraits to be fantastic. Hope to get to that level one day.

You can quickly learn a lot about lighting and shadows/highlights by using a flash with a modelling LED. You'll need some help with this but with your subject in position and you behind the camera in live view, get someone to move the light around for you and you'll see how dramatically things can change.

Your AD200 doesn't have a modelling LED unfortunately, but plug it into an AD-B2 adapter and you'll gain a 10w LED in a Bowens-fit mount. It's not the brightest, but usable. Get another AD200 and you'll have 400Ws plus another 10w LED modelling LED. Now you're cooking :-D

 

[Ellis Vener]

Get some heavy black cloth , Duvateen works best, large enough to cover the front of your Octa box. Now cut a large rectangle out of the center of it, and voila! A rectangular shape softbox.

The best way to learn the “feathering” technique is to try it. Start with the softbox pointed directly at the back wall, and by degrees, turn it towards the camera until no light is falling directly on the subject. Make photos at each position.

Same for raising and lowering the height and tilt angle of the light, and the angle of the light relative to the line between subject and camera.



Same for moving the light closer and farther from the subject along the same line.

 

[Ronnie99]

As Norton suggests in the first seconds of the video, take a look at Irving Penn's portrait work. https://irvingpenn.org/portraits
For photographers, Irving Penn is close to what Robert Johnson, Muddy Waters, Chuck Berry, and Little Richard are for blues-based rock & roll.
From the angle the video is shot from, it appears the softbox is set up slightly in front of Larene. Notice too how high the center of the softbox is above the top of her head, placing the bottom edge slightly below her shoulders. And as you have noted, the softbox is aimed across her, not pointing at her or the background.

Thanks again. I will watch the video again and hope to get it right one of these days. I tried again with a new modifier, an octobox and as you said it the light source was too wide. Since I don't have a 2x3 soft box I will continue to use my umbrella. I'll post new pictures tomorrow.

I really love Irving Penns work, especially his use of shadows. I actually found Norton's video by searching for Irving Penn lighting. His corner portraits are amazing as well as his still life work. In fact I hate to say that I'm growing a bit frustrated with portraiture and I may start trying something new like still life.

One of my problems with portraiture is that I haven't been able to practice with too many people other than myself. I may place an online ad or look for a place where I can find models who are starting out.

I just looked at your website and find your portraits to be fantastic. Hope to get to that level one day.

You can quickly learn a lot about lighting and shadows/highlights by using a flash with a modelling LED. You'll need some help with this but with your subject in position and you behind the camera in live view, get someone to move the light around for you and you'll see how dramatically things can change.

Your AD200 doesn't have a modelling LED unfortunately, but plug it into an AD-B2 adapter and you'll gain a 10w LED in a Bowens-fit mount. It's not the brightest, but usable. Get another AD200 and you'll have 400Ws plus another 10w LED modelling LED. Now you're cooking :-D

Thanks for the advice. At the moment, I don´t have room in my budget for another AD200. I did buy a Godox dp400iii for the modelling light but I find that it doesn´t really give me a similar result when I use the flash compared to the modelling light. Do you think it would be worth picking up a Godox h200r to use the modelling light?

 

[Ronnie99]

Wow, thanks so much. I'm going to change to an octobox softfbox and see how it goes. I really appreciate it. I can't really tell how far he has it in from of his subject but I will try various distances.

I just had a look at your website. Very inspiring. Hoping to be able to make better images in the near future.

Thanks again

I just tried out moving the Octobox all around, mostly close to me, roughly 12-20 inches outside of the frame and I'm not that happy with the results. The shadows are too dark for me. What could I do better?











I tried to get better shadows by using a piece of foam core just below the frame, angled toward my chin, trying to bounce light up, but I don't really like the result









I will go back to the diffused umbrella tonight and see if I can get something better. Still too many shadows in places where I don't want them.



Thanks.

 

[Klaus dk]

Godox's rectangular softboxes are quite old designs and I think you can do better than that are a reasonable price. I've been quite impressed by the build quality of the Phottis Raja line then their 60X90cm box would give you the aspect ration you're after.

Thanks, I'll probably go with Phottix. I like the Raja line but these are a bit more economical.

https://www.adorama.com/ph82495.html

Not sure what the difference would be.

That one is really designed to be used with speedligths. The Raja has a Bowens mount.

... and it looks as if the speedlight is inside the softbox pointing back. That sort of soft box is difficult to angle down because the light stand pole will be in the way. You can of course add a grip head and a short boom arm to make it work.

 

[Klaus dk]

Wow, thanks so much. I'm going to change to an octobox softfbox and see how it goes. I really appreciate it. I can't really tell how far he has it in from of his subject but I will try various distances.

I just had a look at your website. Very inspiring. Hoping to be able to make better images in the near future.

Thanks again

I just tried out moving the Octobox all around, mostly close to me, roughly 12-20 inches outside of the frame and I'm not that happy with the results. The shadows are too dark for me. What could I do better?





I tried to get better shadows by using a piece of foam core just below the frame, angled toward my chin, trying to bounce light up, but I don't really like the result

I will go back to the diffused umbrella tonight and see if I can get something better. Still too many shadows in places where I don't want them.

Thanks.

You could work with the foam core reflector. A white reflector can give you that little lift you need of the shadows. To find the best direction and position, you may have to move it around a bit. I sometimes use a mirror to see if it catches the light from the flash and throws it in the right direction.

 

[Ronnie99]

Shadows matter. Buy the flash modifier to pay for the shadow.

1st photo - Note the dark/light/dark shadow on the background with that 5 foot octa

second photo with a 4x6 softbox

third Broncolor Para 133 directly next to model

fourth pic 4x6 softbox with mask

5th pic Broncolor Para 133 usual beauty dish location

last pic, Broncolor Para 222 left of camera

dont get stuck with just one “look” . Have a vision and create the look.













--
Nikons, Rolleiflexes, Elinchroms, Broncolor Paras

Beautiful work

 

[Don89]

Thanks. Practice practice practice.

Learn, make mistakes, always try to improve on your work. You can spend hours in forums, but time behind the camera matters so much more.

 

[Ronnie99]

I'm having a hard time finding people to shoot here in Spain. I've started asking people for random street portraits but you're right, I need more time in front of the camera. I like the idea of finding a mentor but at the moment I'll try and keep practicing any way I can, which for now is taking self portraits.

 

[stateit]

... Living in Europe, I have only found a shop in Amsterdam that carries a few of their boxes....

I don't know if you can find a company in Spain like PixaPro, but here in the UK I buy there 'used' kit. It's always, as far as I've experienced over several purchases, near to brand new. They will ship to Spain, but I don't know if the cost would make it worthwhile.

This is a link to their used lighting modifiers:
https://www.essentialphoto.co.uk/category/used/modifiers/

 

[ronscuba]

I'm having a hard time finding people to shoot here in Spain. I've started asking people for random street portraits but you're right, I need more time in front of the camera. I like the idea of finding a mentor but at the moment I'll try and keep practicing any way I can, which for now is taking self portraits.

I take self portraits all the time to practice and learn. Once you comfortably take good self portraits with 1 or 2 different lighting setups, you can use them on a person.

Then practice self portraits doing something different.

 

[Ellis Vener]

I really like #2. The lighting accentuates the sense of you connecting with the viewer.

 

[Ed Shapiro]

I'm having a hard time finding people to shoot here in Spain. I've started asking people for random street portraits but you're right, I need more time in front of the camera. I like the idea of finding a mentor but at the moment I'll try and keep practicing any way I can, which for now is taking self portraits.

I take self portraits all the time to practice and learn. Once you comfortably take good self portraits with 1 or 2 different lighting setups, you can use them on a person.

Then practice self portraits doing something different.

You can not learn lighting for portraiture by only doing self-portraits. There are many folks who want a good picture of themselves. You have to network with PEOPLE and trade off some modelling time for images. You can offer to shoot men, women, kids, couples, folks of various ages, and facial structures.

Besides good lighting techniques, relating to directing and evoking expression in people are important aspects of portraiture and people photograhy.

Los buenos retratos se obtienen a través de las buenas habilidades con las personas.

Ed Shapiro- Commercial and Portrait Photographer. Ottawa, Ontario Canada

 

[ronscuba]

I'm having a hard time finding people to shoot here in Spain. I've started asking people for random street portraits but you're right, I need more time in front of the camera. I like the idea of finding a mentor but at the moment I'll try and keep practicing any way I can, which for now is taking self portraits.

I take self portraits all the time to practice and learn. Once you comfortably take good self portraits with 1 or 2 different lighting setups, you can use them on a person.

Then practice self portraits doing something different.

You can not learn lighting for portraiture by only doing self-portraits. There are many folks who want a good picture of themselves. You have to network with PEOPLE and trade off some modelling time for images. You can offer to shoot men, women, kids, couples, folks of various ages, and facial structures.

Besides good lighting techniques, relating to directing and evoking expression in people are important aspects of portraiture and people photograhy.

Los buenos retratos se obtienen a través de las buenas habilidades con las personas.

Ed Shapiro- Commercial and Portrait Photographer. Ottawa, Ontario Canada

Maybe you misread what I wrote ?

I practice new lighting techniques, new lighting positions, new equipment, on myself doing self portraits. Once I am comfortable I can take a good photo with that new technique, position, item, I take photos of people using what I learned doing my self portrait.

I frequently do trade shoots with a team of models, makeup artist, hairstylist, clothing designers. The trade is I give them good photos. They are not there for me to practice and teach myself. Sure, I might try something new on a trade shoot, but that is at the end after I have already gotten many good shots using lighting and techniques I am already familiar with. Familiar because I practiced it with self portraits.

--
https://www.ronchauphoto.com/
https://www.instagram.com/rchau.photo