Is Ricoh serious about the Pentax’s future?

[DDoram]

When Ricoh purchased Pentax several years ago, the DSLR market was still growing. In 2013-2014 the overall camera market is in a nose dive sales wise including DSLRs. A large company like Ricoh did not get big without understanding business. Given the state of the camera market, are any of the companies really doing well? Sony, Fuji and Olympus are innovating with new products but are they making money? Ricoh may be trying to find an approach that makes sense given the challenging conditions.

While I love DSLRs, the future appears to be in mirrorless, so if I were Ricoh I might produce a FF mirrorless over a FF DSLR. Provide me with an effective adapter so I can use K mount lenses and I would consider it.

Dale

 

[JimC1101]

Why is that ? If you look at the Nikon D4 from DPR's information, is $6497 and the 645Z is $8596, from B&H. I am sure that if Nikon were to release a medium format camera, it would most likely be around $2K more of what the D4 would be so this pricing in line of what to be expected. Also, there are others who do have the 645Z in the forum and have posted with some of their pictures.

 

[britcam]

When Ricoh purchased Pentax several years ago, the DSLR market was still growing. In 2013-2014 the overall camera market is in a nose dive sales wise including DSLRs. A large company like Ricoh did not get big without understanding business. Given the state of the camera market, are any of the companies really doing well? Sony, Fuji and Olympus are innovating with new products but are they making money? Ricoh may be trying to find an approach that makes sense given the challenging conditions.

While I love DSLRs, the future appears to be in mirrorless, so if I were Ricoh I might produce a FF mirrorless over a FF DSLR. Provide me with an effective adapter so I can use K mount lenses and I would consider it.

Dale

 

[Voff]

Releasing FF lenses without an FF body makes zero sense and we should bury such rumors immediately. It would be same as adding more salt to the wound, deliberately denigrating customers and no sane company would ever do that.

On the contrary; it makes lots of sense. Firstly, many FF lenses make equal, if not more, sense on APS than on FF. Particularly telephoto ones. Secondly, by releasing some of the FF lenses early, there will be FF lenses in the line-up when the FF body is released.

 

[petreluk]

When Ricoh purchased Pentax several years ago, the DSLR market was still growing. In 2013-2014 the overall camera market is in a nose dive sales wise including DSLRs. A large company like Ricoh did not get big without understanding business. Given the state of the camera market, are any of the companies really doing well? Sony, Fuji and Olympus are innovating with new products but are they making money? Ricoh may be trying to find an approach that makes sense given the challenging conditions.

While I love DSLRs, the future appears to be in mirrorless, so if I were Ricoh I might produce a FF mirrorless over a FF DSLR. Provide me with an effective adapter so I can use K mount lenses and I would consider it.

Very good point. I've thought for quite a while that the cry of "Where is the Pentax FF DSLR" is misplaced these days (as well as tiresome) because the time when that would have really mattered has mainly passed. Ricoh could still do it but perhaps such a move wouldn't make all that much of a difference and would be pretty risky for them. However, asking about a Ricoh or Pentax mirrorless system of at least APS-C in format is asking about something that might well make a big difference since it might easily be future of their camera biz (and most other camera outfits too). If they launched that instead of an FF DSLR as their next big move, it wouldn't be a great surprise.

 

[Pete Dee]

Before making any purchase - cameras, cars, dishwashers, polo shirts - it's important to perform an in-depth financial health analysis of the companies with which you are considering doing business. Only purchase from companies that are guaranteed to make a profit next quarter or that will remain in business for decades to come.

Either that, or just use what meets your needs and enjoy it.

Completely wrong unless you are buying a fridge that takes twenty extra attachments that cost more than the fridge each and then in three years time when the fridge fails and needs to replaced none of the attachments fit the competitors models.

 

[paulkienitz]

In short: if Ricoh is going to launch a bunch of FF designed lenses this Photokina, I really feel they should pre-announce a FF camera body. Otherwise I would write off Ricoh/Pentax as a sane company.

I think the opposite. If they mean to make the shift to full frame, this is the way to do it -- prepare the ground with lenses first.

 

[Voff]

I think the opposite. If they mean to make the shift to full frame, this is the way to do it -- prepare the ground with lenses first.

There will be no "shift" to FF. It will be in addition to the current line-up. Not a replacement.

 

[Voff]

petreluk wrote:However, asking about a Ricoh or Pentax mirrorless system of at least APS-C in format is asking about something that might well make a big difference since it might easily be future of their camera biz (and most other camera outfits too). If they launched that instead of an FF DSLR as their next big move, it wouldn't be a great surprise.

Why? Mirrorless is about a 1/5th of the DSLR marked. It also do not replace DSLR's but replace higher end P&S cameras.

Pentax was a SLR only manufacturer for years. They were making SLR's when everyone else in Japan was making mirrorless som 60 years ago. I wouldn't expect Pentax to be a leader in the mirrorless market without a complete change of business philisophy.

 

[Flex M]

IDK, I have a different impression of Ricoh ownership. I see Ricoh going with what was already laid out of the table by Hoya, and then incrementally issuing facelifts. IMHO Hoya let Pentax be Pentax, whereas Ricoh wants their Pentax brand to toe the line.

It's time to see some real innovation from Ricoh. We've seen enough low-risk, low-investment facelifts and gimmicks. I hope we see something really new in the next few weeks!

 

[John_A_G]

petreluk wrote:However, asking about a Ricoh or Pentax mirrorless system of at least APS-C in format is asking about something that might well make a big difference since it might easily be future of their camera biz (and most other camera outfits too). If they launched that instead of an FF DSLR as their next big move, it wouldn't be a great surprise.

Why? Mirrorless is about a 1/5th of the DSLR marked. It also do not replace DSLR's but replace higher end P&S cameras.

DSLR market is about 11 years old. Mirrorless is a relatively recent concept to ILCs. What some people believe is that it will grow very fast. The notion that mirrorless cameras are only point and shoots is no longer reality with the latest generation of Fuji, Sony and Oly cameras. There are differences, but image quality is for a large number of people approaching or past "good enough". The idea is Ricoh needs to strategically plan for where the market will be 5 years from now, not where it was last year.

Pentax was a SLR only manufacturer for years. They were making SLR's when everyone else in Japan was making mirrorless som 60 years ago. I wouldn't expect Pentax to be a leader in the mirrorless market without a complete change of business philisophy.

Well, Kodak was a film manufacturer for years - where is that business now? It's legitimate to consider mirrorless will replace DSLR for consumer/prosumer ILC just like digital did to film. I'm not saying that will definitely happen, but you seem to be arguing it won't happen just because SLR technology has been dominant for years.

Given how much mirrorless is improving in each generation right now I think it's naive to discount how much market share it could take within 5 years.

 

[petreluk]

petreluk wrote:However, asking about a Ricoh or Pentax mirrorless system of at least APS-C in format is asking about something that might well make a big difference since it might easily be future of their camera biz (and most other camera outfits too). If they launched that instead of an FF DSLR as their next big move, it wouldn't be a great surprise.

Why? Mirrorless is about a 1/5th of the DSLR marked. It also do not replace DSLR's but replace higher end P&S cameras.

Pentax was a SLR only manufacturer for years. They were making SLR's when everyone else in Japan was making mirrorless som 60 years ago. I wouldn't expect Pentax to be a leader in the mirrorless market without a complete change of business philisophy.

It's not about today but looking forward over the next 3-5 years. Not actually far off given the development and production time it takes to establish a new camera and/or system. Eventually I think mirrorless will replace the DSLR except mostly for full-frame (because of the huge preponderance of Canon and Nikon lenses, and even they may end up being attached to an EVF box, not an OVF mirror box). In particular I think high-end crop format of the K3 kind is looking a bit vulnerable - pressure from cheaper FFs above and a plethora of other cameras from below or the side. There are simply a lot of alternatives now to what some may regard as "Dad's camera" - very nice, but all a bit yesterday. I don't think that but I know plenty of folks who do.

Lens Rentals did a takedown of a Sony A7 and what becomes immediately apparent is how easy to manufacture a mirrorless camera can be, by comparsion to a DSLR. Mostly inside there were just a few circuit boards; the only moving part was the shutter; and only a very small number of screws were needed over the whole camera. Once a global shutter on the sensor or something of that kind can be devised, no moving parts at all will be needed. For a manufacturer, that must be sorely tempting so there is an economic pressure there too.

Ricoh's stated aim is to become one of the world's top three imaging companies. Clearly that is a long-term goal, but if they stick to it then it is very hard to see them doing it with cameras, at least, if they remain purely a DSLR house for their main camera line from here on in. Partly, sure, but not entirely as has been the case till now.

 

[Petroglyph]

After 15 years with Pentax I’m on the crossroad – stay with Pentax, o move to a different brand. To be more clear about this I decided to read the report to investors (not only Ricoh) and other official documents in Ricoh website. I was surprised – cameras are a very little part of Ricoh business - only 7.7% in year 2013.

Pentax had a top medical devices division which was kept by Hoya.

And it lives in the category “Others” while Canon, Nikon, FijiFilm putting it to imaging category. When I was reading interview with Zenji Miura (President and CEO of Ricoh) I found nearly nothing about camera business and the future of Pentax.

I predict the future will depend on how profitable the division is. Q is the 7th best selling mirrorless cam in Japan = we'll see more Qs.

They sell out the entire first run of 645Z = We'll see another run of 645Z + a new lens released even before Photokina.

Folks buy the K3 in droves (or do they say the K5IIs is good enough for now) = Okay we'll go after the emerging Asian market with a super zoom.

They're a business, and can only produce what will turn a profit.

It is expected the grow in the sector “others” only 7% in year 2017.

That would be a fine result these days.

By the way, “others” sector includes digital cameras, theta and …watches. Can we expect something big from Ricoh? I’m thinking, that Ricoh will follow C/N, Sony, FujiFilm with delay 2-3 years with no innovations (except colors).

Did you just write Sony with delay 2-3 years with no innovations? Every time I turn around Sony is announcing something.

Do you have other sources or information to deny my fears?

No. Nobody knows the future. Just have fun with what you choose from the present.

Audrius

 

[paulkienitz]

I think the opposite. If they mean to make the shift to full frame, this is the way to do it -- prepare the ground with lenses first.

There will be no "shift" to FF. It will be in addition to the current line-up. Not a replacement.

I meant "shift to include full frame".

 

[Alex Sarbu]

petreluk wrote:However, asking about a Ricoh or Pentax mirrorless system of at least APS-C in format is asking about something that might well make a big difference since it might easily be future of their camera biz (and most other camera outfits too). If they launched that instead of an FF DSLR as their next big move, it wouldn't be a great surprise.

Why? Mirrorless is about a 1/5th of the DSLR marked. It also do not replace DSLR's but replace higher end P&S cameras.

Pentax was a SLR only manufacturer for years. They were making SLR's when everyone else in Japan was making mirrorless som 60 years ago. I wouldn't expect Pentax to be a leader in the mirrorless market without a complete change of business philisophy.

It's not about today but looking forward over the next 3-5 years. Not actually far off given the development and production time it takes to establish a new camera and/or system. Eventually I think mirrorless will replace the DSLR except mostly for full-frame (because of the huge preponderance of Canon and Nikon lenses, and even they may end up being attached to an EVF box, not an OVF mirror box). In particular I think high-end crop format of the K3 kind is looking a bit vulnerable - pressure from cheaper FFs above and a plethora of other cameras from below or the side. There are simply a lot of alternatives now to what some may regard as "Dad's camera" - very nice, but all a bit yesterday. I don't think that but I know plenty of folks who do.

The K-3 is doing pretty well for a "vulnerable" product. And the opinion of those who thinks DSLRs are "Dad's camera" is irrelevant.

Lens Rentals did a takedown of a Sony A7 and what becomes immediately apparent is how easy to manufacture a mirrorless camera can be, by comparsion to a DSLR. Mostly inside there were just a few circuit boards; the only moving part was the shutter; and only a very small number of screws were needed over the whole camera. Once a global shutter on the sensor or something of that kind can be devised, no moving parts at all will be needed. For a manufacturer, that must be sorely tempting so there is an economic pressure there too.

You mean, the light leaking Sony A7? Indeed, it's an example of a cheap construction; Sony has a lot of experience with electronic products. Pentax' electronics looks a bit messy and they could work on that, and a DSLR has (obviously) mechanical systems - but not every simplification is for the better.

Ricoh's stated aim is to become one of the world's top three imaging companies. Clearly that is a long-term goal, but if they stick to it then it is very hard to see them doing it with cameras, at least, if they remain purely a DSLR house for their main camera line from here on in. Partly, sure, but not entirely as has been the case till now.

And they needed Pentax for that. Pentax, which is a traditional SLR manufacturer.

Sure, if the market is changing they will adapt. But, the MILCs have a long way until they'll be able to threaten DSLRs... they're a smaller, more crowded market.

Alex

 

[paulkienitz]

When Ricoh purchased Pentax several years ago, the DSLR market was still growing. In 2013-2014 the overall camera market is in a nose dive sales wise including DSLRs. A large company like Ricoh did not get big without understanding business. Given the state of the camera market, are any of the companies really doing well? Sony, Fuji and Olympus are innovating with new products but are they making money? Ricoh may be trying to find an approach that makes sense given the challenging conditions.

While I love DSLRs, the future appears to be in mirrorless, so if I were Ricoh I might produce a FF mirrorless over a FF DSLR. Provide me with an effective adapter so I can use K mount lenses and I would consider it.

If they were going to go mirrorless they probably wouldn't put the FF 70-200 on the K-mount roadmap.

 

[Joseph Tainter]

Releasing FF lenses without an FF body makes zero sense and we should bury such rumors immediately. It would be same as adding more salt to the wound, deliberately denigrating customers and no sane company would ever do that.

On the contrary; it makes lots of sense. Firstly, many FF lenses make equal, if not more, sense on APS than on FF. Particularly telephoto ones. Secondly, by releasing some of the FF lenses early, there will be FF lenses in the line-up when the FF body is released.

I don't know whether the rumor about full-frame lenses is true. I suspect it is not, but I could be wrong.

Here, though, is Pentax's problem with releasing full-frame lenses prior to a full-frame camera: This would hurt sales of the K-3. Some potential K-3 buyers would hold off until the full-framer comes out.

Joe

 

[Voff]

Releasing FF lenses without an FF body makes zero sense and we should bury such rumors immediately. It would be same as adding more salt to the wound, deliberately denigrating customers and no sane company would ever do that.

On the contrary; it makes lots of sense. Firstly, many FF lenses make equal, if not more, sense on APS than on FF. Particularly telephoto ones. Secondly, by releasing some of the FF lenses early, there will be FF lenses in the line-up when the FF body is released.

I don't know whether the rumor about full-frame lenses is true. I suspect it is not, but I could be wrong.

Here, though, is Pentax's problem with releasing full-frame lenses prior to a full-frame camera: This would hurt sales of the K-3. Some potential K-3 buyers would hold off until the full-framer comes out.

Joe

This is what the head of Ricoh/Pentax marketing says about FF:

"We concentrated our techs into K-3 and believe in that it never falls behind FF even after there have been a lot of comparisons between APS-C & FF. Said that, we should never betrayed loyal customers who has been investing to (note: DA) lenses. If we neglect them to launch a FF model or two to challenge the area where we are not strong, it’s going to make no sense at all."

APS will have priority....

 

[Voff]

DSLR market is about 11 years old. Mirrorless is a relatively recent concept to ILCs.

Mirrorless has been around since photography was invented......

 

[Voff]

It's not about today but looking forward over the next 3-5 years.

People said the same 5 years ago....