D4s - short notes

[Iliah Borg]

Colour channel preconditioning is still in place.

Black level is at 768.

CFA organization and filters are the same as on D4.

 

[Raul]

Dear Iliah,

Too much for me. ...and this means?

Kind regards,

Raul

 

[Iliah Borg]

Dear Raul,

Too much for me. ...and this means?

Means to me that astrophotographers and statistics people will be delighted with black not being clipped to zero; colour is not degraded for the sake of a little less noise in raw (colour filtration preserved from D4); colour channel preconditioning I do not like, Expeed 4 is capable of skipping it, but probably firmware was ready before Nikon discovered it Not a big issue, that preconditioning, but gets on the way of statistical analysis over red and blue channels.

--
http://www.libraw.org/

 

[jjnik]

Dear Iliah,

Too much for me. ...and this means?

Kind regards,

Raul

 

[rhlpetrus]

Any news on higher ISO settings? The few samples I've seen (jpegs) seem to preserve colors above 12800 better than D4.

 

[Iliah Borg]

Any news on higher ISO settings?

There is no point in going to higher ISO settings, nothing to gain past ISO 3200. Only highlights are lost. The noise in shadows is visibly nicer compared to D4.

 

[Iliah Borg]

please translate for us mortals

If the raw converter of your choice displays dull purplish image when opening a D4s NEF, tell the software developers to use Nikon Black Level tag which we reported to Mr. Harvey a while ago and which is now read by ExifTool.

 

[overniteman]

Colour channel preconditioning is still in place.

Black level is at 768.

CFA organization and filters are the same as on D4.

--
http://www.libraw.org/

And they say this is a "gear" forum.............

 

[jjnik]

Dear Raul,

Too much for me. ...and this means?

Means to me that astrophotographers and statistics people will be delighted with black not being clipped to zero; colour is not degraded for the sake of a little less noise in raw (colour filtration preserved from D4); colour channel preconditioning I do not like, Expeed 4 is capable of skipping it, but probably firmware was ready before Nikon discovered it Not a big issue, that preconditioning, but gets on the way of statistical analysis over red and blue channels.

--
http://www.libraw.org/

Iliah - Do you think this is the same sensor as in the Df? Nikon claims it is a newly designed sensor in the press releases, but I'm not sure what that really means

 

[Iliah Borg]

Do you think this is the same sensor as in the Df?

Yes, it is the same sensor matrix as in Df but very different raw processing before NEF is written.

Nikon claims it is a newly designed sensor

In a way it is, as Df is pretty new.

 

[Raul]

Colour channel preconditioning is still in place.

Black level is at 768.

CFA organization and filters are the same as on D4.

 

[commiebiker]

Any news on higher ISO settings?

There is no point in going to higher ISO settings, nothing to gain past ISO 3200. Only highlights are lost. The noise in shadows is visibly nicer compared to D4.

 

[Iliah Borg]

Any news on higher ISO settings?

There is no point in going to higher ISO settings, nothing to gain past ISO 3200. Only highlights are lost. The noise in shadows is visibly nicer compared to D4.

no point for you perhaps

I was responding to particular person.

 

[M Lammerse]

Colour channel preconditioning is still in place.

Black level is at 768.

CFA organization and filters are the same as on D4.

 

[Iliah Borg]

I wonder What Illah thinks about the version with 24 MP

I do not know of a 24 mpix sensor ready to be used in a pro camera with 10 fps (not even 11) - unless Sony-type lossy compression of raw is in use ~<;-)>

 

[cm71td]

Any news on higher ISO settings?

There is no point in going to higher ISO settings, nothing to gain past ISO 3200. Only highlights are lost. The noise in shadows is visibly nicer compared to D4.

Hi Iliah,

I'm interested in finding out more about this.

1. Are you suggesting that we set our max ISO no higher than 3200 (even if it means underexposing), and push during post processing when underexposed?

2. Is 3200 a good max for all cameras, or just the D4? I'm guessing such a number would be lower for Sony column ADC sensors than other sensors.

Any more information would be appreciated.

Thanks

 

[Iliah Borg]

1. Are you suggesting that we set our max ISO no higher than 3200 (even if it means underexposing), and push during post processing when underexposed?

Yes, however it is not underexposing, as exposure depends on light, not on amplification or multiplication which ISO setting is.

2. Is 3200 a good max for all cameras, or just the D4?

For D4 I stop at 1600. It is an easy procedure to find this setting for any camera. Set the stable light on some target (ColorChecker, Q13,...), set a reasonably high ISO, set the exposure so that the target is not blown out on the preview, shoot, lower the ISO setting by 1/3 stop, shoot, lower the ISO setting again,... Bring the shots into raw converter and apply exposure compensation to counteract lowered ISO settings, compare the resulting noise and details. Much here depends on the raw converter. Some raw converters will be rendering compensated shots better, some will be lacking. Objective data can be obtained using raw data dumps and statistical analysis; practical performance may depend on your choice of raw converter.

I'm guessing such a number would be lower for Sony column ADC sensors than other sensors.

Many Sony sensors do not benefit from raising ISO setting past 400, some for practical purposes do not benefit from ISO control at all - of course, if you are shooting in raw mode.

 

[exdeejjjaaaa]

I wonder What Illah thinks about the version with 24 MP

I do not know of a 24 mpix sensor ready to be used in a pro camera with 10 fps (not even 11) - unless Sony-type lossy compression of raw is in use ~<;-)>

so you think that Sony does compression not post on-die ADCs (I mean that non linear curve that does 14bit to 12bit) ? because otherwise their APS-C (APS-C can be a "pro camera", right ?) 24mp sensor does output 24mp x 11fps for Bionz to apply the curve and futher compression... and in this case you just need a faster processor/futher pipeline, because otherwise sensor itself is quite ready.

 

[Iliah Borg]

I wonder What Illah thinks about the version with 24 MP

I do not know of a 24 mpix sensor ready to be used in a pro camera with 10 fps (not even 11) - unless Sony-type lossy compression of raw is in use ~<;-)>

so you think that Sony does compression not post on-die ADCs

Broken line characteristics is implemented as ADC control.

 

[M Lammerse]

I wonder What Illah thinks about the version with 24 MP

I do not know of a 24 mpix sensor ready to be used in a pro camera with 10 fps (not even 11) - unless Sony-type lossy compression of raw is in use ~<;-)>

--
http://www.libraw.org/

Well, hopefully you want to share your light again this coming September on sensor quality and sensor data processing in an other camera

Michel

--
- Objectivity is of the very essence of photography, its contribution and at the same time its limitation -
http://www.fotopropaganda.com
http://www.fotopropaganda.com/blog
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