(Rumor) Canon to challenge NEX?

[justmeMN]

The latest wild, unconfirmed, rumor is that Canon's forthcoming mirrorless camera will have a APS-C sensor.

http://www.canonrumors.com/2012/07/mirrorless-update-aps-c-cr2/

That makes sense in that, with a simple adapter, it could perfectly use Canon's large selection of available lenses.

 

[dzajba]

Yeah but Canon's non-manual lenses are generally pretty big. Bigger (and heavier) than native NEX lenses for sure.

 

[viking79]

The latest wild, unconfirmed, rumor is that Canon's forthcoming mirrorless camera will have a APS-C sensor.

The most interesting thing is the phase detect/hybrid focusing system they have in their sensor.

As for comments on lenses, if this uses a shorter flange distance mount they will have all new lenses anyway, so it is hard to say how big the lenses will be.

Eric
--
I never saw an ugly thing in my life: for let the form of an object
be what it may - light, shade, and perspective will always make it
beautiful. - John Constable (quote)

See my Blog at: http://www.erphotoreview.com/ (bi-weekly)
Flickr Photostream: http://www.flickr.com/photos/28177041@N03/ (updated daily)

 

[Old Pirate]

That has been known for quite some time. What did you expect Canon to do, sit and watch?

But the key word is just what you used..."challenge".

In the world of Mirrorless and especially in the world of sensors, Sony is now the leader to which all things will be compared.

Did you see the recent Pintapixel article where some speculate that Sony will be so dominant in sensors going forward that cameras with names on them like Nikon, Pentax, Olympus and others will have stickers saying...."Sony inside" not unlike everyones computer including some of Apple's saying..."Intel inside".

Sony is that far ahead in sensor development of everyone.

Canon and Nikon and everybody else makes good digital cameras, but more and more people are finally realizing one thing. So does Sony.

 

[Everdog]

Yeah but Canon's non-manual lenses are generally pretty big. Bigger (and heavier) than native NEX lenses for sure.

Here is the first lens I looked at to compare. Also, most NEX lenses have smaller apertures (200mm F/6.3 zooms, F/3.5 macro, etc).
http://camerasize.com/compact/#33.87,219.306,ha,t

First, since Canon solved PDAF on mirrorless and Sony still has the slowest focusing, a lot of people will want to switch. Even with a PDAF adapter on the NEX, almost all lenses don't have IS which hurts too.

Second and most important, Canon will eat away at all mirrorless sales. NEX sales we can say for sure will be negatively impacted (along with Panny, Oly and Nikon).

If you look at sales in Japan, everyone should still be OK, except NEX. Even with the release of a new body they still don't have any top selling cameras.

 

[Old Pirate]

Japan is a good country with good people, but they are certainly not what the camera world is targeting in reality.

Europe, the US, and what is getting ready to open in China makes Japan look like New Jersey in comparison to the US. Sony is doing well in these really big markets and most places can not keep the best sellers in stock.

The biggest camera store in my area is a long time Canon and Nikon dealer, but since the third quarter of last year Sony is their biggest seller and you guessed it..their number one selling Sony camera is....the A57, followed by the new A37 which they can not keep, followed by the 5N. Three years ago they had agreements with Sony, but they weren't that excited. SLT and Mirrorless has vaulted Sony into the lead, at least at this store and now Best Buy folks are talking up the quality of Sony too. There is a revolution going on it seems simply because of IQ.

You assume Canon's finished product is going to be appreciably better than the NEX.

I assume the NEX is going to be appreciably better after the next firmware release, especially the first one that the 7 gets.

It's going to be as big of a jump as the A700 got when its last firmware update came out.

 

[RussellInCincinnati]

Any portable camera in the world could be seen as a "challenge" to the Nex, if it's cheap enough. And this isn't even about an existing camera, so we can't even tell if it's cheap enough for any particular purpose.

Does ANY camera discussion in the world belong in /welcome in the NEX FORUM, merely because someone pastes the phrase "does it challenge the Nex" into a post?

I.e please don't mis-post discussion of a CANON CAMERA in the Nex forum.

 

[headofdestiny]

The latest wild, unconfirmed, rumor is that Canon's forthcoming mirrorless camera will have a APS-C sensor.

http://www.canonrumors.com/2012/07/mirrorless-update-aps-c-cr2/

That makes sense in that, with a simple adapter, it could perfectly use Canon's large selection of available lenses.

Well, the rumor says that the camera may be larger than people are expecting. Maybe Canon is going the bizarre Pentax K-01 route and making a camera with a DSLR registration distance, but without a mirror or OVF? Kind of the worst of both worlds.

 

[ryansholl]

That has been known for quite some time. What did you expect Canon to do, sit and watch?

It's worked for Canon over the FOUR years since m4/3 arrived on the scene. Why stop now?

 

[Nell27]

Japan is a good country with good people, but they are certainly not what the camera world is targeting in reality.

I've never commented on it before but I've also wondered why people put so much stock in what camera sells best in Japan.

Do people living in Japan know more about cameras than people who live in Germany or Canada? Some people on these forums must think they do.

I'm not even sure the top selling camera, in any country, really means much of anything. Too many variables.

 

[Everdog]

Funny who you guys post in all the other forums about NEX, but when someone wants to comapre a camera to the NEX, you freak out! LOL.

This is a "forum" not a cheerleading site.

 

[Kiril Karaatanasov]

The latest wild, unconfirmed, rumor is that Canon's forthcoming mirrorless camera will have a APS-C sensor.

The most interesting thing is the phase detect/hybrid focusing system they have in their sensor.

This has been touted for a while by Fuji and Sony and may be Canon but it is not going to work. Simple physics no brain surgery involved.

Read how Phase detect works. You need a bit more HW in front of the AF sensors that will block light from reaching the imaging sensor.

So these PD sensors cannot really work. See

http://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2010/07/how-autofocus-often-works

or this that describes the original PD system as implemented in Minolta 7000 almost 20 years ago

http://www.mir.com.my/rb/photography/hardwares/classics/maxxum7k/AF.htm

If there were miracles - Sony, Fuji, Panasonic, Sigma or Olympus would have use it. Canon is years behind now on sensor technology so I would not expect much surprise form them there.

 

[shlam]

I love all this challenge and competition, don't you?

Canon finally going to compete in mirrorless. And Sony is counter-attacking with the RX100 to put a damper on the Canon S100 and Nikon 1. It's all good for us consumers...

 

[kerpan]

Links?

 

[kcamacho11]

I love all this challenge and competition, don't you?

Canon finally going to compete in mirrorless. And Sony is counter-attacking with the RX100 to put a damper on the S100 and Nikon 1. It's all good for us consumers...

Absolutely. Competition is great. The NEX-7 outperforms every Canon crop sensor DSLR (I've had both a 60D and 7D in the past) in image quality and high ISO, at half the size and weight......which is pushing Canon to do better. They will come out with an answer, and then Sony will counter with the NEX-7 replacement.

 

[viking79]

The latest wild, unconfirmed, rumor is that Canon's forthcoming mirrorless camera will have a APS-C sensor.

The most interesting thing is the phase detect/hybrid focusing system they have in their sensor.

This has been touted for a while by Fuji and Sony and may be Canon but it is not going to work. Simple physics no brain surgery involved.

What simple physics are you referring to? You can put phase detect sensors directly on the imaging sensor, no brain surgery involved.

Read how Phase detect works. You need a bit more HW in front of the AF sensors that will block light from reaching the imaging sensor.

I know how it works. Sure, you might block light from a few pixels that have sensors, but this should be a negligible amount of surface area on the sensor.

So these PD sensors cannot really work.

Why is that? They work the same as they do in an SLR, just that there are special pixels on the sensor that receive light only from a certain direction.

http://www.dpreview.com/news/2010/8/5/fujifilmpd (this is old, but a fuji description of the technology)

You can also look at chipworks teardown where they image the sensor and you can physically see the phase detect pixels:

http://www.chipworks.com/en/technical-competitive-analysis/resources/recent-teardowns/2012/07/inside-the-canon-rebel-t4i-dslr/

If there were miracles - Sony, Fuji, Panasonic, Sigma or Olympus would have use it. Canon is years behind now on sensor technology so I would not expect much surprise form them there.

Fuji does use it (on some compacts), so does Nikon. Canon is not years behind on sensor tech.

The downside is the phase detect on the imaging sensor is not as good (yet) as phase detect on a separate dedicated sensors, it could still be useful for telling the contrast detect algorithm which way to focus. Phase detect generally knows which direction and how much it is out of focus. The Contrast system could use that to know approximately where to go.

Eric
--
I never saw an ugly thing in my life: for let the form of an object
be what it may - light, shade, and perspective will always make it
beautiful. - John Constable (quote)

See my Blog at: http://www.erphotoreview.com/ (bi-weekly)
Flickr Photostream: http://www.flickr.com/photos/28177041@N03/ (updated daily)

 

[robert1955]

If Canon indeed were to go for an APS-C sized sensor and a new mount with a short registration distance (they already have a patent for EF converter) a positive side effect would be that it would be more interesting for third part lens makers to create lenses for that new Canon mount and E.

 

[waitwat]

Sure, now that i bought a NEX... sure...

 

[gfrensen]

Yeah but Canon's non-manual lenses are generally pretty big. Bigger (and heavier) than native NEX lenses for sure.

Here is the first lens I looked at to compare. Also, most NEX lenses have smaller apertures (200mm F/6.3 zooms, F/3.5 macro, etc).
http://camerasize.com/compact/#33.87,219.306,ha,t

Wow do you know the diffrence between apples and oranges? Both fruit, both round, but different in every other way. You compare two lenses, one stabilized, one not. Show the same picture with a stabilized 50mm f1.8 on both... Oh Conon does not have that lens, sorry...

And look here when we compare cameras in the same price range with both a 50m 1.8 lens on it Sony is a little smaller, and it is a lot less heavy ( 471 grams to 705 grams:
http://camerasize.com/compact/#219.306,34.87,ha,t
And now for the smallest Sony lens (16 mm 2.8 the lens you easely forget:
http://camerasize.com/compact/#34.84,333.166,ha,t

Canaon has no lens in the comparometer thet equels it (the closest is a 17mm 2.8 t/s lens) so I took a Sigma lens (15mm 1.8) ro compRE.

Look how the miricle works: the 5n with lens attached is smaller then the canon camera without lens! And the lens is smaller and lighter then the Sigma lens (67 grams vs 330 grams and 22.5mm vs 70,5mm.

First, since Canon solved PDAF on mirrorless and Sony still has the slowest focusing, a lot of people will want to switch. Even with a PDAF adapter on the NEX, almost all lenses don't have IS which hurts too.

Oh and when Fuji came with their mirrorless you expected that that camera would finish Sony and it did..... NOT

Second and most important, Canon will eat away at all mirrorless sales. NEX sales we can say for sure will be negatively impacted (along with Panny, Oly and Nikon).

Maybe yes, maybe the camera is not that good, maybe the camera will be larger then the Nex and lenses not that much smaller and maybe Sony comes with an answer to the Canon (Like OLY and Pana did to the Nex).

If you look at sales in Japan, everyone should still be OK, except NEX. Even with the release of a new body they still don't have any top selling cameras.

Why?Are sales in Japan the same as sales in the whole world?Are sales in Japan from half a year (with some big disaster for Sony in their factory in that half year) what tells everything? Is the most important Oly camera (the OM-D) in the top 20?

You must be realy freigtend now, in the past you told here that, when Canon used a 4/3 sensor (even when it is a bit bigger then a m43 sensor) it would make the 43 a standard, now Canon might use an APS sensor, that will make the APS sensor the standard, as most companies are using that sensor format for their mirrorless cameras (Samsung, Fuji, Sony, Canon, Pentax) against just Panasonic and Olympus for the M43 sensor (and Nikon for the 1" sensor). So just think for what format a Sigma or a Tamron will make lenses for, Hmmm APS?

But look at the bright site: It is just a rumor, nothing we now for sure....

 

[gfrensen]

With the Nex you have a very capable camera, with some fine lenses and more on the way. Sony realy is dedicated to make the Nex win, but we have to see what Canon realy will do.

Maybe they will come with a camera with a smaller sensor (that was the rumor until yesterday) Maybe they will not be that dedicated to the system, as it may hurt their DSLR sales) maybe....

Go out and take pictures, forget the othercameras. Their is just one camera important and that is the camera in your hands, ass that camera is the one you take pictures with. It does not matter if that camera is a Sony, a Fuji, A Pentax etc.