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Panasonic: APS-C lifespan is limited BS in my opinion

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The Olympus OM-D did show significant improvement in ISO 3200
getting close to NEX but not beating it from what I see

But APS-C will also improve and probably faster because it is used in almost all DSLR and can share research across whole industry
But Panasonic is the only company making MFT sensor

Who will win in future is clear
 
One viewpoint against another. if edge to edge sharpness was the critical factor, I would use a pin-hole camera. Or for practical purposes, a Go-Pro V2. I saw some action footage from that, and for sharpness it beats the m4/3 and the NEX, but of course there is no flexiblity of usage, and there is a fair bit of distortion due to the WA. Still usable for action sports videos, though.
 
Of course, they need a justification for m43.

"I think what's missing at the moment is edge to edge sharpness. If you look at some of the images from an APS-C sized sensor, you can see quite clearly the edge to edge sharpness is just not as good as from Micro Four Thirds."

True, but also a bigger size sensor , at the same technology step will always have a better low light performance.

I think the first problem can be improved using better lenses, micromirrors corrections and PP up to a point, but you can not improve the latest. In the samePanasonic logic, means that FF sensors have no reason to exist, as they are even bigger.
 
"I think what's missing at the moment is edge to edge sharpness. If you look at some of the images from an APS-C sized sensor, you can see quite clearly the edge to edge sharpness is just not as good as from Micro Four Thirds." Panasonic now has a range of cameras that comprises four different system
 
Agreed. A smaller sensor has a larger DOF.

Per Panny's reasoning, there would be no need for MFT either. The V1 runs circles around the MFT, yet is overshadowed by any P&S.
. . . but you better take all pictures at ISO 100.

Professionals use FF - DOF is but one aspect of a sensor. In all other aspects a larger sensor has more benefits.

Also, MFT is the most 'squarish' format, which hash benefit in lens design, but often means that you crop resolution away.

Will APS-C replace FF? Doubtfull.
Will MFT replace APS-C? Even more doubtfull.

If you compare the f/4 Panny kit with the f/3.5 Sony kit, the Panny is comparable to using the Sony above f/5.6. Sharp? Sure - both are then, but you give up two full stops. Better shoot in daytime only.

If you compare the Panny f/1.4 to the Sony f/1.8, then apertures match, but FOV and DOF are quite different. To reach same FOV, you have to walk backwards, but to reach similar DOF, you have to walk forwards.

Or, simpler said, a fast MFT lens helps in low light ISO selection (same), but not if your goal is creative effects, subject isolation, blurry backgrounds.

Get the S100. Edge to edge sharpness is guaranteed. :)
adi9 said:
Of course, they need a justification for m43.

"I think what's missing at the moment is edge to edge sharpness. If you look at some of the images from an APS-C sized sensor, you can see quite clearly the edge to edge sharpness is just not as good as from Micro Four Thirds."

True, but also a bigger size sensor , at the same technology step will always have a better low light performance.

I think the first problem can be improved using better lenses, micromirrors corrections and PP up to a point, but you can not improve the latest. In the samePanasonic logic, means that FF sensors have no reason to exist, as they are even bigger.
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Cheers,
Henry
 
Jefftan said:
"I think what's missing at the moment is edge to edge sharpness. If you look at some of the images from an APS-C sized sensor, you can see quite clearly the edge to edge sharpness is just not as good as from Micro Four Thirds." Panasonic now has a range of cameras that comprises four different system
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Context? See my other post in this thread.

Smaller sensors have larger DOF, about their only benefit.

The statement is correct, but misleading. It suggests that "everything being equal, MFT has more sharpness", but a better way to think of this is "MFT has more sharpness, but you compromise on everything else".

--
Cheers,
Henry
 
Jefftan said:
"I think what's missing at the moment is edge to edge sharpness. If you look at some of the images from an APS-C sized sensor, you can see quite clearly the edge to edge sharpness is just not as good as from Micro Four Thirds." Panasonic now has a range of cameras that comprises four different system
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I really don't get what he's saying there, because at pixel level, MFT has nowhere near the same level of detail as a good APS-C sensor. If he's talking about DoF, or the fact that MFT's image circle makes it easier to design lenses with sharp corners, then he's made a fairly ridiculous choice of words.
 
adi9 said:
"I think what's missing at the moment is edge to edge sharpness.
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A company that releases stuff like this is not happy with the state their business is in.

From a merketing perspective you should ignore products from your competitors instead of directing interest their way.

It seems they feel they have to shoot against APS-C because they see Sony and Fuji gaining ground.
 
noheadlights said:
noheadlights said:
"I think what's missing at the moment is edge to edge sharpness.
Click to expand...
A company that releases stuff like this is not happy with the state their business is in.

From a merketing perspective you should ignore products from your competitors instead of directing interest their way.

It seems they feel they have to shoot against APS-C because they see Sony and Fuji gaining ground.
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My thoughts also.

Disadvantage to be "first adopter". When Panasonic jumped in in 43 system it was designed to stay clear out of DSLR teritory ( the other adopters were also DSLR makers). One thing was the sensor size, so 43 will never compete with DSLRs (APS-C and FF sensors). Sony and Samsung "did not play by the rules" when they decided to go APS-C. And it worked for Sony at least (not sure how good it works for Sammy). If Sony will be in m43 group will have hard time to compete with the rest, price wise at least. They took a risk with the NEX line and it already paid off, I think.
 
Let me qualify my comment, as someone who uses these cameras for a specific action sport (snowboarding).
Harsh/wet conditions: GoPro v2
Standard action: HX9V
Standard action + creative: NEX-7

Reason for using HX9V and NEX-7 is 50fps at 1080 meaning better slow motion effects are possible.

The GoPro is great when it works, but it is hard to see if you definitely captured the shot without add-ons...As a point and shoot action cam, it does a better job in most cases than the NEX-7, which can be fiddly when under pressure.
 
I don't like Panasonic
Even if I have to choose MFT, I would pick Olympus

reason is simple there most recent gx1 is very disappointing but Olympus recent om-d is very interesting

Hope Olympus can pull through
It is a very good camera company with many innovations
The most recent one is bringing weather proofing to mirrorless
 
If i have to bet what format will disappear in 5 years
I would no doubt pick MFT

By than NEX will have lots of good lens and the only disadvantage may be slightly larger lens size

MFT lens had not shown to be significantly smaller than APS-C
Certainly not worth the sensor disadvantage in my opinion
 
MFT has a problem, and that's APS-C mirrorless cameras .

Sony et al build a mean sensor, and MFT still seems to be a tad behind in sensor technology .

Even if the caught up - their sensors are still smaller, and so they will be a step behing in IQ again. No way to beat size .

I'd love to get an OLY OM-D, and it's a shame Oly and Pana committed to MFT; maybe they should reconsider .

There are many users for whom the difference in IQ won't matter, though .
 
Jefftan said:
If i have to bet what format will disappear in 5 years
I would no doubt pick MFT
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The first system that will disappear will be the Q system from Pentax

Then maybe the Nikon 1 (its smaller sensor size does less to the total bodysize then expected, the PDAF/CDAF focussing system will go to other brands too (or will be equalled by CDAF))

I think both APS and MFT will here to stay for a long time. MFT for the big usergroup allready owning this system, APS for the better IQ as a total.
Jefftan said:
By than NEX will have lots of good lens and the only disadvantage may be slightly larger lens size
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I hope (and think) you are right. I do think Nex is a very good system with good to very good lenses and it is here to stay
Jefftan said:
MFT lens had not shown to be significantly smaller than APS-C
Certainly not worth the sensor disadvantage in my opinion
Click to expand...
The most important question now is: How will Olymus get out the mess they are in? When Sony buys, will they stay in MFT? When Panasonic buys what will happen?
 
My prediction: Sony will release a NEX-S system within 2 years. It will either have a Nikon 1 sized sensor or one slightly smaller than M43. It will at first use all the NEX lenses, and Sony will slowly release a batch of smaller ones for the system. It will also have IBIS.

Predication #2: the people here will LOVE it!
 
Everdog wrote:
^ Don't feed the troll...
 
The Nikon-1 size sensor will replace 4/3. I would not be surprised if Canon also goes with a Nikon size sensor.
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Canon A2E, Sony R1, Panny TZ5, Nikon D5000, & NEX C3/Zeiss 24mm E Lens
 
the whole article avoids DOF control, minimal with M4/3s, which is crucial to the serious photographer

also, how can a sensor size be obsolete !!!! an APS-C sensor with the same technology as a M4/3s sensor will always be better for noise and DR. Oh, and did I mention DOF control!

Lastly the M4/3s sensor being sharper then APS-C is BS. Unless he is talking about more DOF. In which case a PS is sharper

I think the Nex7 can be sharp foreground and background quite easily, and this is f7.1:




Jefftan said:
The reverse is probably true as NEX lens selection improve

http://www.techradar.com/news/photography-video-capture/cameras/panasonic-aps-c-lifespan-is-limited-1069845
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