Some here owe Woodford an apology

[amalric]

Thank you. I couldn't have said it better.

Oly is on a rollercoaster, but the losses involved were made 20 years before, so the cover up was strategic for share price.

As we see in the camera division, they keep on issuing state of the art products, that's what matters here.

Am.
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[cgarrard]

nt

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[CollBaxter]

I would rather drink sulphuric acid than apologies for what I said about Woodford actions during the Olympus debacle. As I have stated before I questioned how it was done and not why it was done. ( Although some protagonist see this as Cr#p.)

His actions after being fired. Go directly to the press and then arrange to see the police or (police plural) a week later. Dramatics with cloak and dagger stuff and comic book hero’s or place yourself as the hero in a spy/crime novel . Then have what seems to be a series of controlled leaks and interviews when it could cause the most damage to Olympus shares . Putting on a white hat to gather cavalry to come to the rescue with himself in the lead. But in the mean time causing more and more damage with his outbursts and interviews. The BOD had already admitted incorrect doing’s. Leading consortiums with himself at the head. At this time Olympus had a info Gag placed on it so Woodford was the composer , the band , and the song. Ah and now a book . What ‘s it going to be called . ‘ How to elude ninjas on the airport bus. ‘ or ‘ The big black hole of the endoscope business.’ Or “ How I managed to get corporate Japan to shiver in their boots.’ The lady doth protest to much.

As I see it his actions after the initial outbursts it is called slash and burn. When you have trees and vegetation that get in the way you cut down what you can and then burn it all and dig the ashes in as fertilizer. It’s normally not good fertilizer as you only get one crop out of it.

As to apology why have others not been called to task , those who trashed Olympus and nearly vowed on a stack of bibles never to support Olympus again , With words like thieves , crooks and depicting all Olympus products as tainted and Olympus as the evil eastern ( For a change) empire . Even some slurs on the Japanese people and their culture and business ethics. It looked like Pearl harbour all over again some days.

Ah but now that the new OMD camera has been released and looks like a brilliant bit of kit. Some people are saying that they have reconsidered as they feel that Olympus needs to move on and it was not the workers and engineers and designers ( Of this lovely kit) who caused the impasse and they should not suffer due to the rotten BOD. Think of their family and pensions . Or maybe their doctor has got them an appointment with a proctologist. Very moralistically convenient.

That was what a FEW of us where saying WHILE Woodford was doing his wrecking ball job. We never condoned the BOD I did condemn Woodfords destructive means to an end. We rejected the implication of Olympus being a total mafia infected evil empire due to the BODS bad/probably criminal decisions (Now proven ) . The good thing is one or two of the old board held things together although some will be rightly prosecuted for previous transgressions. They all resigned if what one hears is correct and that is a honourable if not the only correct decision.

Oh yes there are also questions popping up about Reuters handling and info sources of this whole Olympus affair.

And to Patrick who I referred to as sanctimonious and still holds by his beliefs. You sir I salute.

So when one looks at the E-M5 think about it as the camera that nearly was not. If the E-M5 was release under his (Woodfords) curatorship it probably would have had his signature on it somewhere.

--
Collin

(Aficionado Olympus DSLR )

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Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away. (George Carlin)

New Seventh Wonder of the World.

 

[Great Bustard]

I would rather drink sulphuric acid than apologies for what I said about Woodford actions during the Olympus debacle. As I have stated before I questioned how it was done and not why it was done. ( Although some protagonist see this as Cr#p.)
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.
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So when one looks at the E-M5 think about it as the camera that nearly was not. If the E-M5 was release under his (Woodfords) curatorship it probably would have had his signature on it somewhere.

...that so much vitriol is cast in the direction of Woodford because he tried to seize control of Olympus after being fired for not "minding his business" about a criminal coverup, and relatively little anger cast in the direction of those responsible for the situation in the first place.

It's like a bunch of smokers who are furious that some exec for a tobacco company who discovered that the tobacco company was illegally spiking the cigarrettes with nicotine, reported it, got fired, and then violated an NDA by going to the press and police.

 

[Marty4650]

It is interesting how we can have vastly different views of the same events. And I think it is safe to say we are both devoted Olympus 4/3 users.

You see Woodford's actions as despicable and self serving.

I see them as necessary to stop the fraud and deceit, even if they were also in his own best interest. It doesn't matter if he blew the whistle to keep himself out of jail, to sell a book, or even if he truly felt it was the right thing to do. The truth is, someone had to do it.

You keep saying you don't take issue with exposing the fraud, just in "how he did it." Well, it seems to me he tried to give the BOD an opportunity to correct their mistakes, and their response was to fire him, with some lame rational about "cultural differences" almost immediately after promoting him.

I don't think there was a nicer way to do this. The BOD was firmly entrenched and committed to the coverup. They demonstrated they would be ruthless in defending their actions and hiding their crime.

As for "calling the police" that is precisely what one should do when a crime is committed. For God's sake... this is supposed to be a legitimate business, not the Mafia with vows of omerta!

One thing that this whole affair has demonstrated is that the dishonesty and mismanagement were confined to the upper tiers of the company. The engineers and camera designers always were, and continue to be, the finest in the industry. The OM-D pretty much proves that.

--
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Olympus E-30
Olympus E-P1
Sony SLT-A55

 

[CollBaxter]

Howzit Marty.

Yep we do love Olympus cameras and I probably always will even if Olympus forced me to change brands.

The Rational event would have been First go to the various police services and then go to the Press then stand back and see what happens. I see it as a hostile takeover attempt after he was fired. As to the firing the TOTAL truth will come out on that as at this time it’s only Woodfords "truth" . His truth, their truth and somewhere in the middle lies the real truth.

Edit.

The demands made on Olympus after his investigation where probably of such a nature that the BOD decided to rather crash and burn. Its going to be interesting to hear what those demands where and if they where self serving.

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--
Collin

(Aficionado Olympus DSLR )

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Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away. (George Carlin)

New Seventh Wonder of the World.

 

[CollBaxter]

Said Tobacco individual did not try a hostile takeover of the tobacco industry/company after he was fired.

We have all seen the film with Russell Crow.

--
Collin

(Aficionado Olympus DSLR )

http://collinbaxter.zenfolio.com/
http://www.pbase.com/collinbaxter

Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away. (George Carlin)

New Seventh Wonder of the World.

 

[Great Bustard]

The Rational event would have been First go to the various police services and then go to the Press then stand back and see what happens. I see it as a hostile takeover attempt after he was fired. As to the firing the TOTAL truth will come out on that as at this time it’s only Woodfords "truth" . His truth, their truth and somewhere in the middle lies the real truth.

A "hostile take-over attempt after he was fired" for uncovering corruption. I'm wondering why it would be anything but "hostile" given the circumstances.

It also appears he is being damned by some because Woodford thought he was better suited to run Olympus than the crooks that were in charge at the time -- imagine the nerve of that guy!

I suppose you think he should have told the police secretly, hoping the police would have acted on the word of a fired gaijin , then looked for people who might be better suited than he was to run Olympus and tell them to compete for the position after the police finished their job without the unnecessary pressure of the world looking on.

 

[Great Bustard]

Said Tobacco individual did not try a hostile takeover of the tobacco industry/company after he was fired.

What other kind of takeover would accompany being fired when uncovering and reporting illegal activity?

We have all seen the film with Russell Crow.

So I'm guessing that the difference between angel and demon is whether or not they feel qualified to run the company?

 

[YouDidntDidYou]

fuji is doing very well in the face cream business (from their expertise in chemicals from the film days) and is about to launch their face cream range in Europe.....

" So he went public, and actually saved the company in the end." not really, Olympus old management had thought they had drawn a line under it with the Gyrus deal that went through as the law was just changing in Japan.

"Michael Woodford (the guy who took money out of his own mother's purse and stole from Woolworths as a kid) was 100% right. "

he was publicly wrong about:
1.Yakuza involvement
2. Who owned Axes
3. Foreign shareholders gaining 50% of shares
4. The purpose of the "merger fees"
5. The future of cameras being compact zooms
6. Hollywood rights to the "Woodford" movie
7. Not learning Japanese or spending much time there.
8. Personal enrichment of the board.

What you are left with is 2-3 minority foreign shareholders (asset strippers) who recently bought their shares cheaply and who have a hotline to a certain media organisation along with the ex-CEO (who self-medicates with red wine and sleeping pills) who are still trying to poison the well at Olympus.

(copied and pasted from Flickr)
--
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[CollBaxter]

As to the previous presidents and other ‘s wrong doing in the past (90’s)

The western world looks at people , money , property , assets , labour as transferable commodities. The fundamentals like responsibility , pride, honour , loyalty and dedication sometimes are non existent.

Many Eastern Companies hold these non existent as part of daily life. Some in the west even mock the Corporate armies with these funny men in their company uniforms with their dedication to the company. But use them for their own gains. The US president asked Steve Jobs what the US could do to have the iphone made in the US Jobs said “Nothing”.

As one poster who lives in Japan said if the so called illegal manipulations where not done in the 90’s there probably would not have been an Olympus today.

In the 90’s Olympus was put in a precarious position when the Japanese stock/bond market crashed (bad investments. ) The way I see the action is more of a fanatical crime of passion. Decisions had to be made to protect the company ( Not personal pockets) so a hard decision (If somewhat illegal ) was taken. This decision was to protect the company , employees , and short term future on the business. The people doing this knowingly did this to protect the thing they loved and not for personal gain. ( Yes a salary at the end of the month would be nice.) Tough times called for tough measures. As they say Pride comes before a fall and this is where Olympus came unstuck. This dead wood should have been cleared out of the system. But think about this how does a new president's now blessed with this lovely info go public with thing’s that happened 20 years ago. You try and clean up the mess. The tools to clean up the mess where wrong. At this stage it appears there were no private jets liners and cruisers parked in the Caribbean and 24 hour around the clock parties for employees and customers. No BOD directors fat pay outs ( Liquidating assets) while waiting for the hammer to fall. The company was solvent and functional unlike the norm in the rest of the world east and west of the pacific.

Did the investors lose any money until Woodford went public. Maybe I am a stupid African boy that lives is a mud hut but , Profits = Dividends which are paid to share holders . So if the profits were inflated then surly the investors where overpaid. As to the overvaluation of the company that is to complex for an African boy like me maybe a commodity mover can explain it in more detail.

Wrong yes, but also understandable actions. The means does not justify the end , but left with few to no options what would most people do.

As to books . Woodford is going to do his thing. I wonder if the past Olympus president's might also do a book. Probably not as it would not be the right thing to drag dirt around.

Now to get slaughtered by the moralists.

--
Collin

(Aficionado Olympus DSLR )

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Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away. (George Carlin)

New Seventh Wonder of the World.

 

[Rriley]

fuji is doing very well in the face cream business (from their expertise in chemicals from the film days) and is about to launch their face cream range in Europe.....

" So he went public, and actually saved the company in the end." not really, Olympus old management had thought they had drawn a line under it with the Gyrus deal that went through as the law was just changing in Japan.

"Michael Woodford (the guy who took money out of his own mother's purse and stole from Woolworths as a kid) was 100% right. "

he was publicly wrong about:
1.Yakuza involvement
2. Who owned Axes
3. Foreign shareholders gaining 50% of shares
4. The purpose of the "merger fees"
5. The future of cameras being compact zooms
6. Hollywood rights to the "Woodford" movie
7. Not learning Japanese or spending much time there.
8. Personal enrichment of the board.

What you are left with is 2-3 minority foreign shareholders (asset strippers) who recently bought their shares cheaply and who have a hotline to a certain media organisation along with the ex-CEO (who self-medicates with red wine and sleeping pills) who are still trying to poison the well at Olympus.

(copied and pasted from Flickr)

heh..

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--
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[Great Bustard]

As one poster who lives in Japan said if the so called illegal manipulations where not done in the 90’s there probably would not have been an Olympus today.

It would be like saying if a medical company had not performed unethical tests on unwitting participants in a study, the company may not have survived.

Still, I am loathe to take as "fact" that what Olympus did was "necessary" for its survival. If this were the case, why only Olympus? Where are all the other scandals? Still hidden away waiting to explode?

Or are you arguing that Olympus was quietly fixing the problem and Woodford's poor timing stopped them from fixing the problem themselves? With a collapsing DSLR division, that would seem to be quite a reach, no?

In the 90’s Olympus was put in a precarious position when the Japanese stock/bond market crashed (bad investments. ) The way I see the action is more of a fanatical crime of passion. Decisions had to be made to protect the company ( Not personal pockets) so a hard decision (If somewhat illegal ) was taken. This decision was to protect the company , employees , and short term future on the business. The people doing this knowingly did this to protect the thing they loved and not for personal gain. ( Yes a salary at the end of the month would be nice.) Tough times called for tough measures. As they say Pride comes before a fall and this is where Olympus came unstuck. This dead wood should have been cleared out of the system. But think about this how does a new president's now blessed with this lovely info go public with thing’s that happened 20 years ago. You try and clean up the mess. The tools to clean up the mess where wrong. At this stage it appears there were no private jets liners and cruisers parked in the Caribbean and 24 hour around the clock parties for employees and customers. No BOD directors fat pay outs ( Liquidating assets) while waiting for the hammer to fall. The company was solvent and functional unlike the norm in the rest of the world east and west of the pacific.

You know, if I blew all my money on lottery tickets hoping to be able to pay my mortgage in a depressed economy, lied on loan applications to get the loan to cover my stupidity, and then went deeper into the hole with more of the same, all in the name of being able to keep my home hoping that as the economy recovered I'd be able to pay back those debts, I think some would sympathize with me, others would call me a fool and think I deserved to be homeless.

But to blame the person who uncovered what I did and seek to buy my house, when that person was my accountant who I fired for finding out what I did?

No, I don't think so.

Did the investors lose any money until Woodford went public. Maybe I am a stupid African boy that lives is a mud hut but , Profits = Dividends which are paid to share holders . So if the profits were inflated then surly the investors where overpaid. As to the overvaluation of the company that is to complex for an African boy like me maybe a commodity mover can explain it in more detail.

Wrong yes, but also understandable actions. The means does not justify the end , but left with few to no options what would most people do.

As to books . Woodford is going to do his thing. I wonder if the past Olympus president's might also do a book. Probably not as it would not be the right thing to drag dirt around.

Now to get slaughtered by the moralists.

Well, it's obvious that you're a "by all means necessary" kind of guy, and feel that a "by the book" kind of guy who also has ambitions is the real evil.

Funny thing is, like Olympus, Woodford did what he felt he had to do to survive, the difference being that what he did was legal. Yet he's the bad guy, in your eyes, and not just a bad guy, but almost evil incarnate.

Interesting way to look at things. I wonder how people on this board would have felt if this had happened to Canon, Nikon, or Sony. Too bad we can't peer into those alternate universes, 'cause I'd like to place a rather healthy bet on what we'd see.

 

[boggis the cat]

A more likely sequence of events is thus:

Woodford found what he thought might be fraud, deceit, and mismanagement of assets, and decided to use it to his personal advantage. His attempt to blackmail the board and seize control of Olympus backfired, so he went back to the UK and drummed up media coverage based on his inaccurate view of what the transactions were. This greatly damaged the share price and created a crisis that nearly sank the company, however other Japanese interests assisted in preventing this. (Probably in large part because many companies had used similar schemes when they were still not illegal, and possibly even thereafter as per Olympus.)

How is the possible scenario presented above "more likely"?

You don't believe it is more likely for a corporate shark to act in his own self-interests than out of innate nobility of spirit?

I can understand how Marty might see it that way, but I'm fairly sure that you're merely trolling.

 

[YouDidntDidYou]

As one poster who lives in Japan said if the so called illegal manipulations where not done in the 90’s there probably would not have been an Olympus today.

It would be like saying if a medical company had not performed unethical tests on unwitting participants in a study, the company may not have survived.

your example is a bit more extreme as no one got physically hurt

Still, I am loathe to take as "fact" that what Olympus did was "necessary" for its survival. If this were the case, why only Olympus? Where are all the other scandals? Still hidden away waiting to explode?

everyone knows that pre-2008 many Japanese companys were doing EXACTLY the same thing, some were even camera companies

Or are you arguing that Olympus was quietly fixing the problem and Woodford's poor timing stopped them from fixing the problem themselves? With a collapsing DSLR division, that would seem to be quite a reach, no?

They had fixed the problem themselves and felt the 2011 more accurately reflected the true balance sheet and by making Woodford CEO was a signal to the world of a new Olympus (Woodford never asked himself why he was made CEO out of 26 other candidates (some say better))

In the 90’s Olympus was put in a precarious position when the Japanese stock/bond market crashed (bad investments. ) The way I see the action is more of a fanatical crime of passion. Decisions had to be made to protect the company ( Not personal pockets) so a hard decision (If somewhat illegal ) was taken. This decision was to protect the company , employees , and short term future on the business. The people doing this knowingly did this to protect the thing they loved and not for personal gain. ( Yes a salary at the end of the month would be nice.) Tough times called for tough measures. As they say Pride comes before a fall and this is where Olympus came unstuck. This dead wood should have been cleared out of the system. But think about this how does a new president's now blessed with this lovely info go public with thing’s that happened 20 years ago. You try and clean up the mess. The tools to clean up the mess where wrong. At this stage it appears there were no private jets liners and cruisers parked in the Caribbean and 24 hour around the clock parties for employees and customers. No BOD directors fat pay outs ( Liquidating assets) while waiting for the hammer to fall. The company was solvent and functional unlike the norm in the rest of the world east and west of the pacific.

You know, if I blew all my money on lottery tickets hoping to be able to pay my mortgage in a depressed economy, lied on loan applications to get the loan to cover my stupidity, and then went deeper into the hole with more of the same, all in the name of being able to keep my home hoping that as the economy recovered I'd be able to pay back those debts, I think some would sympathize with me, others would call me a fool and think I deserved to be homeless.

But to blame the person who uncovered what I did and seek to buy my house, when that person was my accountant who I fired for finding out what I did?

No, I don't think so.

They never went any deeper into the hole in real terms and Olympus had very strong cash flow and good operating profits

Did the investors lose any money until Woodford went public. Maybe I am a stupid African boy that lives is a mud hut but , Profits = Dividends which are paid to share holders . So if the profits were inflated then surly the investors where overpaid. As to the overvaluation of the company that is to complex for an African boy like me maybe a commodity mover can explain it in more detail.

Wrong yes, but also understandable actions. The means does not justify the end , but left with few to no options what would most people do.

As to books . Woodford is going to do his thing. I wonder if the past Olympus president's might also do a book. Probably not as it would not be the right thing to drag dirt around.

Now to get slaughtered by the moralists.

Well, it's obvious that you're a "by all means necessary" kind of guy, and feel that a "by the book" kind of guy who also has ambitions is the real evil.

is he really a "by the book kinda guy" from an recent interview "the guy who took money out of his own mother's purse and stole from Woolworths as a kid"

Funny thing is, like Olympus, Woodford did what he felt he had to do to survive, the difference being that what he did was legal. Yet he's the bad guy, in your eyes, and not just a bad guy, but almost evil incarnate.

what he could done is waited a few years while the main players retired and replaced them, and got on with the job of actually running Olympus...

Interesting way to look at things. I wonder how people on this board would have felt if this had happened to Canon, Nikon, or Sony. Too bad we can't peer into those alternate universes, 'cause I'd like to place a rather healthy bet on what we'd see.

I would of have exactly the same feelings, strange how many of the pro-Woodford camp were Nikon users and not Pentax, Sony etc..
--
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[amalric]

I don't understand that part of Anglo-Saxon morality, which can be at the same time so racist, hypocrite, and self righteous at the same time. Is it the celebrated Puritan spirit? Lynching and burning witches - even more avidly if they have yellow faces?

it was clear from the first minute that a takeover from Mr. W. was in the works, rallied with the help of Reuters.

I did quote at the time a 'forensic accountant' who said that new CEO do all they can not to endorse mistakes of the earlier management. But how the thing went on from there, is appalling and it almost wrecked the company, shares being now half of what they were before.

In fact we'lll be lucky if the new ownership doesn't kill the camera division in the coming months, just to make some money.

That's what Marty and attendant trolls are applauding to.

Am.
--
Photostream: http://www.flickr.com/photos/amalric

 

[mrhodges2]

I can understand how Marty might see it that way, but I'm fairly sure that you're merely trolling.

Funny how people who supposedly are against trolling end up engaging in behavior becoming trolls. You changed the subject from discussion about Michael Woodford to whomever it is you think is trolling. The one you accused is clearly sticking to the subject.

Robert

 

[peripheralfocus]

That's an inaccurate portrayal of events, and misses some crucial parts.

Remember that Woodford started his own secret investigation after he was given the CEO role, but before he was given the role of Chair of the board. When the board told him to suspend the investigation he refused to do so.

Hmmm. As so often happens on these forums, you are actually the one who is wrong about the events.

Woodford became aware of possible accounting irregularities at Olympus when they were revealed in a magazine article in a Japanese business magazine early last summer. That article was based on information from an Olympus Japan whistle-blower whose identity has never been revealed.

The magazine (FACTA) published a second article with further details later in the summer. After it did so, Woodford went to Kikukawa et. al. with information from those two articles and asked for an explanation. They told him it was none of his business. Then , he initiated an internal investigation on his own.

So, the scandal was already becoming a public issue (FACTA is a small magazine, but well-known among business journalists, and it was pursuing the story with ongoing articles (and still is)). And the person who first initiated the reckoning for this $2 billion fraud was not Woodford, but the unnamed informant who first went to FACTA, way back in the spring/early summer of last year (or probably earlier; FACTA has not disclosed when they first began reporting this story, as far as I know).

Woodford found himself in the position of having to deal with a scandal that was beginning to unfold publicly. The narrative that has him uncovering this fraud himself (or knowing about it for years and finally getting a chance to use it), and then deciding to use it for blackmail, is simply wrong. That's not how it happened, and we know that. Facts matter.

You seem to be completely missing the practical advantage of covering up the losses. The people involved in setting up the scheme did not benefit financially, the intent was to reduce the damage to the company.

I doubt he missed the practical advantages of committing fraud -- it is indeed a great way to cheat other people out of their money, as long as you never get caught.

The intent may have been to reduce the damage to the company, but by doing so via fraud, Olympus executives damaged the company's shareholders and lenders. Is that point really that hard for people to understand?

As to Woodford -- he will most likely get a huge chunk of money for his trouble, via his "wrongful dismissal" suit, so his scheming was probably not entirely for nought.

He was wrongfully dismissed. He should be compensated. As an executive of Olympus he had a legal fiduciary responsibility to ensure that the company was accounting for its finances accurately -- he could have gone to jail for failing to uphold that legal duty, even in Japan (such results are rare everywhere, because these laws are not normally enforced very aggressively -- it's good to be rich and powerful -- but the legal responsibility remains nevertheless).

 

[MichaelKJ]

He did say that he had been approached about movie rights. However, I think he must be a bit delusional if he thinks the public would be interested in a movie about the Oly scandal. Of course, I guess Hollywood could take the liberties is often does and turn the story into a fictional company so that it could add Yakuza intrigue and a murder or two.

I also doubt his book will do well.

 

[MichaelKJ]

Am said:

In fact we'lll be lucky if the new ownership doesn't kill the camera division in the coming months, just to make some money

For once, we agree on something.

At this point, I could care less about whether Woodford was right or wrong. He is just one person who will be nothing more than a footnote in Oly's history. Time to move on.

My concern about Oly is that it appears that the Japanese creditor banks and institutional shareholders are now in charge. While that is probably better than having US financiers running things, I don't trust them to take a long-term view.