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Interesting visit to Samy's Camera...

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Raist3d

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So asked to see if the E-5 was around in my favorite Samy's I used to buy. Nope, special order only . There wasn't much 4/3rds anymore but micro four thirds was there. I was told that the E-5 doesn't move pretty much at all, but the Pen does and Olympus pushes the Pen, not the E-5.

The Pentax selection was also pretty limited there.

Went to the super Imperial Cruise class Samy's then - the one in the center of LA. They had a display model of the E-5... pretty much what I remembered the last time I saw it.. took a couple of shots. No particular revelations for noise except depending on the high contrast and where there was light, you could see some extra detail at high iso while the blacks and mid tones to dark went to the noise mix I expect from cameras sharing the same sensor.

Anyhow, I asked around and they told me that the E-5 barely sells, but the Pens are selling pretty well. Now, this is the 'Death star" Samy's. One of the biggest stores of cameras in all Los Angeles ( four stories, they even sell all the Epson Printers, Macs, Medium and Large format film and digital ).

They had more Pentax stuff but they didn't have much either.

The Pens were again, pretty well represented. It's almost like they were slowly getting rid of 4/3rds stock, and moving to all micro four thirds.

--

Raist3d/Ricardo (Photographer, software dev.)- "You are taking life too seriously if it bugs you in some way that a guy quotes himself in the .sig quote" - Ricardo
 
I see bit other situations in germany, there the E-5 was not on display because Oly could not deliver enough. But regarding the problem:

I think, the problem with 4/3 was, to much invading trolls ( and perhaps unfair dp reviews ).

That does not mean, that 4/3 is not good - the E-5 is very competive if you count the parameters which dpreview ignores ( and add to that the lens system ) and i will continue to use 4/3 - but 4/3 is recommendable to new users ( this is not meant at existing users ) recommendable to new users only if we say "this is only useful as a way to professional m4/3 cameras - please only buy CDAF able lenses".

The problem, not only in dpreview where some people are putting their whole energy to beat a system who's focal length multiplier is 1.3 bigger than APS - also in photo clubs. My experience, one person said the 4/3 sensor would be "tiny" ( he had a APS canon, factor 1.6 versos 2.0, 2/1.6 = 1.25 difference ) and this was regarded like common photo club wisdom. Other club members (also canon) delivered constantly unsharp photos but implied, their canon gear would be superior.

I think that would have continued forever - and the way out is now m4/3.
  • The trolls can say "waa we were right, we predicted the death of 4/3" and will forever say this until they die, even if Oly delivers 4/3 lenses still in 10 years.
  • We say "Oly made sth better out of 4/3, m4/3, which increased market share".
  • Those who dont shoot black cats in the night, simply continue to use 4/3, and like that Oly has success in the m4/3 field.
  • Oly is not interrested to fight the mob, they will in the future market their m4/3 gear, and quietly support 4/3
  • m4/3 is in a better situation, because some leading opinions ( luminous-landscape, dpreview , thom; also some not so leading opinions kirk tuck ) are pro-m4/3
 
On my side of the country (east), I don't see any olympus gear, though now m4/3 is trickling in. Even independent camera stores (I'm in a Hauptstadt, so they cater to tourists) are devoid of 4/3.

I started a thread about looking for the advantages of 4/3 and some spelled it out really well. However, I'm back and forth about how DPR needs to put a special test to test out the e5, rather than use the standard one that all follow. However, some users pointed out the real shortcomings of the review, and that was appreciated as well and quite valid.

Who knows where the truth lies in all this nonsense. On one side, the fanboys are also basically deserving of the hatred because they do act like 4/3 is so special and nothing else compares, rather than talking fairly about what the different formats and different models excel in and allowing users to read that input and match their usage to what the cams excel in and buy accordingly.
Mr.NoFlash said:
I see bit other situations in germany, there the E-5 was not on display because Oly could not deliver enough. But regarding the problem:

I think, the problem with 4/3 was, to much invading trolls ( and perhaps unfair dp reviews ).

That does not mean, that 4/3 is not good - the E-5 is very competive if you count the parameters which dpreview ignores ( and add to that the lens system ) and i will continue to use 4/3 - but 4/3 is recommendable to new users ( this is not meant at existing users ) recommendable to new users only if we say "this is only useful as a way to professional m4/3 cameras - please only buy CDAF able lenses".

The problem, not only in dpreview where some people are putting their whole energy to beat a system who's focal length multiplier is 1.3 bigger than APS - also in photo clubs. My experience, one person said the 4/3 sensor would be "tiny" ( he had a APS canon, factor 1.6 versos 2.0, 2/1.6 = 1.25 difference ) and this was regarded like common photo club wisdom. Other club members (also canon) delivered constantly unsharp photos but implied, their canon gear would be superior.

I think that would have continued forever - and the way out is now m4/3.
  • The trolls can say "waa we were right, we predicted the death of 4/3" and will forever say this until they die, even if Oly delivers 4/3 lenses still in 10 years.
  • We say "Oly made sth better out of 4/3, m4/3, which increased market share".
  • Those who dont shoot black cats in the night, simply continue to use 4/3, and like that Oly has success in the m4/3 field.
  • Oly is not interrested to fight the mob, they will in the future market their m4/3 gear, and quietly support 4/3
  • m4/3 is in a better situation, because some leading opinions ( luminous-landscape, dpreview , thom; also some not so leading opinions kirk tuck ) are pro-m4/3
Click to expand...
 
But I own one. Never saw the E-3 in the store either, but I have one of those too. My Alien Bees, some how I have 4 of them and I have never seen them in any store I have ever been in.

--
Visualize Whirled Peas.
 
We have one camera chain with a number of shops in our area. One shop has the E-5. I went for a look see and talked w the guy who sells the most Oly. He point blank said that the E5 business is from existing Oly users, if someone is buying into a system new very few will go our way. I asked about why his shop was the only one to have the E5, there is a shop very near my house and they said they would not be carrying the E5, and he said their location was one of a couple that had sales people that actualy pushed some Oly. Found that odd since I have bought plenty of stuff at my local location, but no more Oly shooters there.

The entry point into Oly dslr's since now all we have is the E5, and to some point the uncertainty about oly's future in the Dslr market plus the attractive offerings from other manufactures leaves Oly in a precarious position.

I am not a doomsayer but as I am now looking to upgrade my Nikon and Oly system, having an E30 and still not sure if the E5 is enough of an upgrade in image quality, looks like my dollars will probably go to Nikon. Also let me say I am heavily invested in Oly and have been since my E1 purchase in Nov 2003. I am going on a big trip to the Sothwest the end of this month and will take my Oly gear because it works and can get by with less gear, but I feel a bit let down right now about oly's direction, or for a lack of one, at least a visible one. I want the shg stuff but don't want be stuck resale wise down the road so for the time being my camera $$$will head in another direction.

This is an odd post for me but a lot of what is being said around here now about direction, availability and entry point is happening. Up until the the E5 and stopped production of the entry level to advanced dslr's all of these shops had plenty of oly gear.

I'm wandering a bit now but this experience relates directly to Ricardo's @ Samy's. Sorry about my rant.

Bill
--
Bill Wallace

http://bwallace.zenfolio.com/

"I'd rather laugh with the Sinners than cry with the Saints"
 
Here in Belgium the E-5 is selling like hot cakes, constantly in and out of the shop, and now in back order with unknown delivery date (I have 5 BO's on it.) That is to say the the E-5 is selling better than the E-3 and E-30 combined or the E-620 before that. I think that is telling sth.

As for the PEN, we do sell occasionally one, but it is nowhere near what it is supposed to be. Bear in mind that here in Belgium the stronghold is Canon and Nikon, and Olympus is not a known brand.

However, this all fades away, if you compare it to Sony. There is now a cash-back action on the SLT series of Sony, and due to this, in December Sony had the biggest market share in Belgium of mirror-less and DSLR combined...

--
Cheers,
Marc

http://www.digifotofreak.nl
 
In the big consumer shops like e.g. MediaMarkt there's the E-620 and E-450 and some Pen's and some Panasonic. They haven't got the E-PL2 yet nor do they have the E-5.
The few photoshops that still exist and sell camera's DO have the E-5.

The shop I always go to had all the current E-system camera's and all Panasonic camera's on STOCK.

The shop is big on Canon but they have sold "many" E-5's. Take many with a grain of salt since it sells at the same rate as Nikon D700 and Sony 850, but still that's more than they ever sold E-3's.
Also this shop is cheaper than the "MediaMarkt".

I seldomly buy equippement at the MediaMarkt since most pcs are at least €75-€100 more expensive than the smaller dedicated shops. And if you have something to return you have to wait in line, which could take an hour or so.

But in my case (making money of photography) I'm better off buying at the dedicated shop, for service etc.

I think the biggest camera sales today are done by hybrid-shops (webshops with a physical store) like Foto-Konijnenberg, Kamera-Express and Cameraland and the likes.

--
Digifan
 
...it was killed by Olympus itself, simply committed "suicide". Olympus is lacking marketing skills and they are believing that their products are so good it will sell on it's own. It does not work that way. Welcome to reality.

When they were pushing their products back in 2007-2009 I believe they were also selling them. Now? Nowhere to be seen. No huge billboard ads, not present in TV commercials, not even in photography magazine ads. Yes, now and then we can see the PEN, but that's not going to sell and DSLR, besides, the only DSLR they have is that very expensive E-5, which isn't really every mans budget, regardless how good it is. Without a consumer DSLR they are dead.

We have seen the same with Minolta. The total lack of marketing skills erased the company and made it merge into, or more like swallowed by, Sony.

It's time for Panasonic to do the same; they are the technology leaders of MFT anyway already, so it would be a logical move, assuming they are interested.

As for supporting the FT DSLRs, well, that's a joke until we see some new lenses from Olympus which are not just consumer grade MFT lenses. When do you think that will happen?
 
Well, if you go by the oly forum, olympus can do no wrong and m4/3 is here to stay and they're 100% committed and all that. However, these people don't realize what happened in the whole disastrous cycle of 4/3 and how they did everything wrong and how easy it is for any supported to change formats.
olyflyer said:
...it was killed by Olympus itself, simply committed "suicide". Olympus is lacking marketing skills and they are believing that their products are so good it will sell on it's own. It does not work that way. Welcome to reality.

When they were pushing their products back in 2007-2009 I believe they were also selling them. Now? Nowhere to be seen. No huge billboard ads, not present in TV commercials, not even in photography magazine ads. Yes, now and then we can see the PEN, but that's not going to sell and DSLR, besides, the only DSLR they have is that very expensive E-5, which isn't really every mans budget, regardless how good it is. Without a consumer DSLR they are dead.

We have seen the same with Minolta. The total lack of marketing skills erased the company and made it merge into, or more like swallowed by, Sony.

It's time for Panasonic to do the same; they are the technology leaders of MFT anyway already, so it would be a logical move, assuming they are interested.

As for supporting the FT DSLRs, well, that's a joke until we see some new lenses from Olympus which are not just consumer grade MFT lenses. When do you think that will happen?
Click to expand...
 
olyflyer said:
... until we see some new lenses from Olympus which are not just consumer grade MFT lenses. When do you think that will happen?
Click to expand...
soon we will see pro-level m4/3 lenses.
I quess April.
 
Mr.NoFlash said:
olyflyer said:
... until we see some new lenses from Olympus which are not just consumer grade MFT lenses. When do you think that will happen?
Click to expand...
soon we will see pro-level m4/3 lenses.
I quess April.
Click to expand...
Good for you, but I don't believe you. Anyway, what would be the point? On which body? What about the DSLR market?
 
...maybe now that Zeiss is joining..maybe things will be different!
 
In any camera chain, Olympus DSLRs have always been under-represented. The reason is that small camera manufacturers like Olympus (and Pentax before they went bankrupt and were bought by Hoya a couple of years ago) cannot discount as much as Nikon and Canon. The store therefore cannot earn the same margin on the Olympus equipment that they can on the Canon and Nikon. Therefore they only push Canon and Nikon. I was told this directly by the sales person at Wolf Camera.

In the east you can find the E5 at three stores at least in NYC at any particular time. J&R, B&H, Adorama and others.

New Jersey also a couple places.

Here people don't walk in to stores and pay > $1K for anything, they order it online from out of state to avoid sales tax. So stores have no real incentive to stock equipment for this reason.

In addition, I wonder (but don't know) if Olympus considers the US market one of its major markets. I see more Japanese tourists in NYC with Olympus than I do Americans. In my business - if you have strong markets, you sell into them. You don't invest much in the weak markets. That being said - the marketing opportunities lost are glaring for Olympus. They really need to completely change their entire team here in the US.

--
Regards,

Jerry
 
they're not even welcoming at the fair booths i've been to. i would have fired the lot of them years ago.

in the film days they were a relatively popular brand, with ads and stock in stores.

also, part of it i think is how sheep-like American consumers are. in other countries it seems consumers are more open minded about brands. here you really have to beat them about the head with marketing to get them to wake up.
 
dpreview reviewed the E_30 and 620 very well. Yet they didn't do much to help Olympus Imaging profits and market share. Do note that this store was saying the Pens were pretty popular, so obviously Olympus focusing on that seems to be doing better as far as selling and moving product.

The E-5 is not on display because there aren't that many being made combined with low demand.

--

Raist3d/Ricardo (Photographer, software dev.)- "You are taking life too seriously if it bugs you in some way that a guy quotes himself in the .sig quote" - Ricardo
 
and working well and fast, that's fine.

The lenses will be supported if only they make the key ones that they can turn a profit on.

--

Raist3d/Ricardo (Photographer, software dev.)- "You are taking life too seriously if it bugs you in some way that a guy quotes himself in the .sig quote" - Ricardo
 
Sammy's had the E-30, the 620, the E-3 (in its time), the E-1, etc.

Now only the big store had the E-5 display model and no cameras. And both store said the E-5 are hardly moving. Keep in mind the LA store is one of, if not the biggest camera store in whole LA.
CrashE3 said:
But I own one. Never saw the E-3 in the store either, but I have one of those too. My Alien Bees, some how I have 4 of them and I have never seen them in any store I have ever been in.

--
Visualize Whirled Peas.
Click to expand...
--

Raist3d/Ricardo (Photographer, software dev.)- "You are taking life too seriously if it bugs you in some way that a guy quotes himself in the .sig quote" - Ricardo
 
All marketing effort has been for the PENs and they did great stuff.

They are commited to the PENs, that is no surprise and the sales have show this.

Even my local news station did a travel segment that stared the PENs as the travel camera to have.

There E-5 is similar to anchor products for car manufactures, they what to show off some exotic car but they really want to sell econo boxes because that is where the money is.

standard 4/3 will make live on a niche unless the m43 sales are such that there is no reason to keep 4/3 at all.
 
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