Agonizing choice

HarleyFrank

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I have been agonizing over a decision on how I want to do my photos in the future. Here is my current characteristics:
  • Picture count increased dramatically over film. 200 plus shots everytime I go out.
  • Have two cameras: Canon 30D and Canon S95
  • Both Canons can shoot RAW as well as JPEG
  • My output devices will be:
  • iPad
  • Photo frames (for various family desks and counters)
  • Possible social networks ie Facebook
  • Very minimal printing with 8X10 being the largest
With the iPad, it will downsample the photos to a smaller format to display on screen. Photo Frames can be loaded full size and downsampled by the Photo frame or pre downsampling ahead of time. All the items sent to social network photos will need to be downsampled.

I have noticed very little difference between converting RAW and using JPEG right out of the camera (minor processing).

My choices are Lightroom 3 and Photoshop Elements 9. If Lightroom 3 was not so pricey compared with PE9 I might be compelled to get it or possibly both. but my requirements just don't seem enough to justify both. With what I have expressed above, what would you all reccomend?

HarleyFrank
 
Your camera should have come with software. Have you tried it ?

What OS are you using ? We might be able to help with other suggestions if we knew.

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StephenG

Pentax K100D
Fuji S3 Pro
Fuji S9600
 
Dang! I thought I had all the info needed.....goes to show you why I am asking!

Yes, there is DPP....which I am not enamored with. It is ok, but seems to fall short compared to PE(X).

I am on Windows 7 which I upgraded from Vista to save my computer :-) It is a Quat at 2.6 GHz. Not the hottest in town, but ok. I have a Samsung 21" Syncmaster that is about 7 or 8 years old. Still seems to be giving true bright colors. I do calibrate it with an early version of Spyder.

HF
 
Don't know why the lines in the last post were crossed out, but I didn't cross them out so ignore the cross out.....my message is still valid.

HF
 
turn both of your cameras to jpeg, get gimp or a another free editing tool and enjoy your pics. why spend a pile of money on something like lightroom or photoshop if its for web or photoframes.
gimp is not a valid solution for his needs, neither is photoshop.

he mentions a volume of 200+ pics everytime he gets out.

just think about it... opening 200 images in any photo editor is insane, specially when you only need to resize and maybe some minor adjustments (wb/curves/crop/saturation)

sure you can use macros and stuff, but it's still not the right tool for it.

lightroom is really amazing, but if you can't afford it you have a range of alternatives, like picasa (free), imatch (cheap or maybe free?), digikam (free/opensource), lightzone (kinda cheap), and some others that I forgot...

I didn't try them all, but they are available as trial or for free.. so you can check them out.

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My comment was that I wasn't sure that I could justify it if something else did the trick or justifying two editors if one of the other was needed. I do not want to spend money on the full blown Photoshop as it is just way beyond my needs at the moment. Lightroom is viable if it makes sense. You seemed to hit on my needs really well. So my question has everything to do with how to deal with high volume of pictures and good image quality on the displays I mentioned. As an added point, just because it is an iPad or photo frame does not mean I want to compromise on image quality. I want the best damn looking photo I can out of these devices. They are replacing the prints in photo albums. I want them to pop and make people happy. Hope this helps. As I do need help with this decisions. it is an important one to me. Probably more important than were my camera choices.

Thanks

HF
 
I have been agonizing over a decision on how I want to do my photos in the future. Here is my current characteristics:
  • Picture count increased dramatically over film. 200 plus shots everytime I go out.
  • Have two cameras: Canon 30D and Canon S95
  • Both Canons can shoot RAW as well as JPEG
  • My output devices will be:
  • iPad
  • Photo frames (for various family desks and counters)
  • Possible social networks ie Facebook
  • Very minimal printing with 8X10 being the largest
Your shooting mainly for low resolution devices mostly displays. You do not need the high resolution images your cameras capture. Shoot jpeg at a highest quality. You may just want to use your S95 and set it to its 16:9 1920x1080 setting. The best digital frames these days are HDTV many will display jpeg images off a card or USB flash drive. Your iPAD uses an old 4:3 XGA 1024 by 768 pixel display I'm sure the software that comes with the iPad can display 16:9 1920x1080 images well and so can Photo frames. A 1920x1080 image will print around 10" x 6" at 192 DPI which will look good. Don't knock yourself out and shoot RAW sRGB jpeg is perfect for you.

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JJMack
 
HF, I don't know exactly what you may need, but I can tell you my experience until I reach lightroom.

I've allways been a photoshop power-user, I mean, I don't use just the basic stuff, I use lots of clone/stamp tool, lots of layers and blend modes, masks, burning/dodging/smudging with my tablet, and so on, I loved using photoshop on my small volume photos.

I remember how my photo volume increased to the point I started to hate the "open/edit/save as" workflow in photoshop and gimp.

Then I tried Picasa. "wooo!! yaay!" I celebrated! no more open/edit/save workflows! plus, it doesn't destroy the originals when editing, I can browse/crop/white balance/curve my photos in seconds! it was fast, it was easy, but maybe too simple.

I didn't like the color control (white balance, saturation control, color filters, etc), the sharpen was also very simple, and there's no vignette tool (it's a must to me, most of the open/edit/save that I was still doing was to correct colors or to add a vignette).

But the worst of all about picasa is how it handles (most if not all) effects: they get "stacked" one over the other and you can't change the parameters back, you just keep adding another "effect" at the top of the effects stack, and you are not able to pick one of the effects that you have applied and change its parameters... the only way to do that is to "undo" (removing the last effect on the stack) until you reach the effect you want to change...undo that too, apply it again with proper values and then remember all of the effects that came after it and reapply them again... it sure limits me.

then it came lightroom, it was all that picasa wasn't, no more stacked effects, it's got precise control over each effect! great raw handling, an awesome noise reduction, sharpener, white balance, everything is top quality to me, and I love the vignette tool!

one thing I love about LR: say you are playing with an image and it reaches a point where you like it but also want to keep playing... no problem, click "snapshot", put a descriptive name to the "effect" you made so far and keep playing... once you are happy again... snapshot it again, then by just clicking each "snapshot" you can swap between the versions you created to see what looks best... that's the kind of control I needed, or you can alternatively create as many "virtual copies" of a single image as you want, and make different changes to each, they look like different files, but in fact is a single one with different effects applied to it (and it doesn't waste additional space).

the best thing about LR is the workflow, let me tell you what's mine:

I plug my sd card, lightroom launches and I select one of my "import" presets, all my presets copy the files to a predefined folder and changes the filename to date+orig_name so they don't overwrite over time when the file numbers repeat

.Most of my pictures share the same shutter speed/aperture/white balance (as I do lots of off-camera flash session) so I preselect all similar images, click "auto sync" and change one of them only... all others change simultaneously, once I finish I browse them giving them a rank (keys 0 to 5), I usually press the 4 key when the photo is good and 5 when it says "WOW". I try to keep it simple, 4=keepers, 5=must print, everything else is free to be delete or ignored. once I'm done, I filter all images ranked > 4 and "export" there I select one of my presets... for example I have a preset to "copy images to my projector @720p" another export preset is "export jpeg @85% quality", another one: "full jpeg quality for printing", and so on, here;s where you can create a preset for each of your needs: your frame, IM, social network, email, whatever... each one can have a predefined directory (or "ask when export"), output settings (jpg/tiff, quality, resolution, etc) sharpen for screen, for mate print, glossy, etc) it really makes life easier.

the only thing I hate about lightroom is how slow it goes on me, it's not even close to "picasa" speed, but hey... it's still amazing!

hope I didn't overwhelm you , I'm just bored on a business trip at the hotel ;)
--

 
I forgot to mention, I no longer use photoshop as much as I did, not because LR replaces it (it doesn't!) but because the things that I mostly need are performed by LR, and I love that! I use only photoshop when I need to retouch a photograph, not when I need to adjust it hardly ;)

it's a great organizer ;)

--

 
I have been agonizing over a decision on how I want to do my photos in the future. Here is my current characteristics:
  • Picture count increased dramatically over film. 200 plus shots everytime I go out.
  • Have two cameras: Canon 30D and Canon S95
  • Both Canons can shoot RAW as well as JPEG
  • My output devices will be:
  • iPad
  • Photo frames (for various family desks and counters)
  • Possible social networks ie Facebook
  • Very minimal printing with 8X10 being the largest
With the iPad, it will downsample the photos to a smaller format to display on screen. Photo Frames can be loaded full size and downsampled by the Photo frame or pre downsampling ahead of time. All the items sent to social network photos will need to be downsampled.

I have noticed very little difference between converting RAW and using JPEG right out of the camera (minor processing).

My choices are Lightroom 3 and Photoshop Elements 9. If Lightroom 3 was not so pricey compared with PE9 I might be compelled to get it or possibly both. but my requirements just don't seem enough to justify both. With what I have expressed above, what would you all reccomend?

HarleyFrank
Just a suggestion --- Do you really need to expose 200 images to capture your objectives for the subject matter. It would appear that your first consideration would be to plan your exposures more before pressing the shutter button and you probably would result in better exposures and also probably end up with 1/3 the number of exposures or at most 1/2 the number you now expose with your current methods.
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Vernon...
 
Thank you for taking the time to describe your experience. I got a kick out the begining because your experience and mine are very similar....except I was doing all that power editing with PE7 and below.....but as I said before, my shots have increased from 20-30 max to a minimum of 200. I can't keep up with that with PE7, but hey, if someone has a way to do it, I am game. Your experience sure does make LR 3 compelling.

HF
 
Just a suggestion --- Do you really need to expose 200 images to capture your objectives for the subject matter. It would appear that your first consideration would be to plan your exposures more before pressing the shutter button and you probably would result in better exposures and also probably end up with 1/3 the number of exposures or at most 1/2 the number you now expose with your current methods.
--
Vernon...
Very good point. Trust me, this has crossed my mind more than once! In the film days I did exactly as you mentioned....can't afford to waste film. With digital I find I experiment more....use exposure bracketing (sometimes). Do several shots of the same subject with different settings....and all that crap. I am finding that I make a lot of decisions with post processing (during) and not at the shoot. Your point is well taken and one I plan to take seriously. On the other hand, I am getting a much higher picture count of shots than I did with film. I do a lot more and he keepers are killer. So I have to find that happy workable medium.

HF
 
While I realise that you've come down to a choice of Photo Elements 9 and Lightroom, I just wonder whether you've considered some of the other possibilities out there?

Some of the free alternatives, such as Picasa, have been mentioned, but have you looked at IDimager ( http://www.idimager.com/ )?

It has a similar cost to PE9, yet has similar functionality to LR, i.e. it doesn't cost an arm and a leg.

I found some limitations with PE9 that confirmed why I didn't want to use it. They may not apply to your requirements, so it would still be in the running for you, but you may want to be aware of them. See
http://gcoupe.wordpress.com/2010/10/08/photoshop-elements-9/
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Geoff Coupe
 
For RAWs try RawTherapee ( although DPP is very good ).

http://rawtherapee.com/?mitem=3

I'd suggest the "stable" version, which works well and not the bleeding edge version which will crash as it's a pre-release version.

For general quick processing and viewing try Irfanview.

http://www.irfanview,com

For general editing GIMP.

http://www.gimp.org

For general editing Photo.net :

http://www,getpaint.net

All of these are well known and free.

If you're looking at spending money consider the following which all have downloadable full demos.

LightZone. Very handy, and a favourite of mine, but not to everyone's taste.

http://www.lightcrafts.com

Photoshop Elements. Personally I think GIMP is better ( and free ), but I'm not you.

http://www.adobe.com

LightRoom. Not an editor proper but a mix of image adjustment and management that suits some people.

http://www.adobe.com

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StephenG

Pentax K100D
Fuji S3 Pro
Fuji S9600
 
If you do little "pixel processing",eg background removal, I'd advise Light Room. It will handle the volume well, downsize them easily, and make all the basic corrections that you need. If you shoot in raw, which I would also recommend, it will convert them easily, allow for changes in white balance, other color correction, shadows, etc. It will sharpen and resize your volume easily. It will also give you a very good catalog system which will come in handy down the road.
Download the demo.

BTW - I use Capture One (similar to Light Room), and PSE Elements 9.

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Jim
 
I try to keep my workflow very simple and usually,but not always shoot Jpeg... I love picasa 3.8 for just one thing...picture management.. It is a great tagging program and has face recognition...great fun organizing and tagging your photographs.. Sometimes I use it to batch process a bunch of similarly lit fun family photos, with the batch-auto contrast setting. very fast processing.. The search engine is extremely fast for finding photographs that you want to work on..

I use Fastone, another free program with a lot of features... I also use it when I want to downsize and send photographs with email... or downsize and put photos in a folder for uploading to Flickr, or attach to an email.

Since you are familiar with PS elements 7 I would continue to use to fix a special image you can't completely fix with picasa or fastone. just right click the image and say open with photoshop elements.

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mwinn
 
For your situation I would choose

1 Lightroom3 ($$$$'s)
or
2 Picassa 3.8 (free)

Both non distructive (master file is never changed) and can handle plenty of Photos.

Both have a simple export process for use in your ipad

Personally I would choose Lightroom 3 without hesitation, which in your case would probably eliminate any need for a photo editor such as Elements/PS/Gimp.
 
I have had a lot of good suggestions and advice from this thread. More than I expected. It is very much appreciated and I will take it all to heart. What I am leaning toward is using Elements 7 a bit longer. I do like some of the updates that came out with 8 and 9 so I might upgrade to 9 for those photos I want to pixel edit. I am going to try both Picasa and LR 3 trials before I choose the workflow organizer. One poster was astute enough to point out that I should rethink how many pictures I do take and see if I can reduce the count. I know this is possible (I just have to fill the whole card....just once....then I'll quit....honest). I still see myself with large numbers of photos either way. So I do need to solve this problem eventually. With the iPad, photo frames and occaisional social media, it is finally a time when we can truly share all that we do. So I do want to be efficient and have a good showing.

Thanks to all for your help!

HarleyFrank
 
One poster was astute enough to point out that I should rethink how many pictures I do take and see if I can reduce the count. I know this is possible (I just have to fill the whole card....just once....then I'll quit....honest).
one thing that helps is to do a preselection while you shoot, I do review each shot right away and delete if I dislike it, It's nice to come home and see a lot of keepers at the memory card, it really helps to think when to shoot, and also to delete if it didnt work

--

 

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