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New SD9 Images at Chasseur d'Images ?

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All the ISO 400 shots are better than we have seen in some recent night shots - and even better (noise wise) than the shot from Phil... IMHO.

Do you agree?

I am still reviewing them - but so far, they are not making me go "Oh my God - what have I done???"

In fact, for the most part, they are reconfirming my excitement about my pre-order. But I must continue to study them....

I just wanted to look at them quickly.....

Before "He who shall not be named" begins to rip them apart - pixel by pixel.... (and I don't me Voldemort).

smile

=)
Sam
richard peters said:
Have these images been discussed? Two sets at 100, 200, 400 ISO .

http://www.numeritest.com/Sigma-SD9.htm

Richard
Click to expand...
--
Sam Pyrtle
F707 Lover
[email protected]

http://www3.photosig.com/viewuser.php?id=11179
 
Something odd about these images. I just printed out the 400asa shot of the restaurant tower, and while noise isn't an issue in my opinion, there are odd artifacts that I haven't seen on other samples. Admittedly, I'm just using an HP5550 printer, but Phil's samples printed up lovely.

There seems to be a video-camera-like halo around the "Messe" lettering, which is also accentuating jaggies. There seems also to be a slight softening (greasy thumbprints effect) over the image as a whole, and the foliage to the left of the tower is horribly distorted. It's somewhat reminiscent of digital zoom effects.

I'm in the process of selling my D7i as so far I feel the SD9 is where I want to be as a first foray into DSLRs. However, this set of images will do Sigma no favours at all.

Come on Phil, set my mind at rest, either way.

Cheers

Noodle
richard peters said:
Have these images been discussed? Two sets at 100, 200, 400 ISO .

http://www.numeritest.com/Sigma-SD9.htm

Richard
Click to expand...
--
Noodles Galleries (early days yet)
http://pub26.bravenet.com/photocenter/album.php?usernum=2148748549
http://www.pbase.com/wossname/root
 
Well, maybe "abysmal" was a little strong.

In comparing with Phil's D60 resolution chart, the Sigma does seem crisper. But it looks to me like the Sigma has more obvious moire and significantly more color fringing than the D60, for whatever reason(s). Parts of the left side of this B&W resolution chart are very....very colorful. Given the choice, I would usually prefer fuzziness to rainbows.

I didn't see the last chart you were referring to. But in any case, of course Sigma is better than any "3MP" camera. The Sigma is not in the "3MP Bayer" class. It's supposed to be in the "6MP Bayer" class, more or less. That the 10.5Megasensor Sigma is better than any 3Megasensor Bayer camera is a necessary, but not sufficient, criterion for the product's success.

I am really, really pulling for this technology, so I'm hoping for a good explanation, and that this is not representative of the best the camera can do.

--Stuffy
Peter G said:
Stuffy said:
--Stuffy
richard peters said:
Have these images been discussed? Two sets at 100, 200, 400 ISO .

http://www.numeritest.com/Sigma-SD9.htm

Richard
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
Stuffy said:
But it looks to me like the Sigma has more obvious moire
Click to expand...
X3 technology has moire? Repent quickly, before you too are compared with Voldemort!
Stuffy said:
and significantly more color fringing than the D60, for whatever
reason(s). Parts of the left side of this B&W resolution chart are
very....very colorful.
Click to expand...
This is probably our old friend, chromatic abberation again. We can quibble over the reasons why, but the SD-9 will be very sensitive to the least bit of lens CA. Phil will likely try to use the Sigma 50mm F2.8 for his charts if he can. I would expect the CA to be much less obvious.

--
Erik
 
Erik Magnuson said:
Stuffy said:
But it looks to me like the Sigma has more obvious moire
Click to expand...
X3 technology has moire? Repent quickly, before you too are
compared with Voldemort!
Click to expand...
Member said:
Member said:
and significantly more color fringing than the D60, for whatever
reason(s). Parts of the left side of this B&W resolution chart are
very....very colorful.
Click to expand...
This is probably our old friend, chromatic abberation again. We
can quibble over the reasons why, but the SD-9 will be very
sensitive to the least bit of lens CA. Phil will likely try to use
the Sigma 50mm F2.8 for his charts if he can. I would expect the CA
to be much less obvious.
Click to expand...
Check the EXIF, the chart was taken at 50mm and F5.6 (not F8 as the caption said). Unfortunately, the EXIF reader I am using can't tell the lense type, but I would guess it would be a 50mm prime. It certainly is not the 20-40mm.

Tom Riddle alias Karlg :-)
 
richard peters said:
Have these images been discussed? Two sets at 100, 200, 400 ISO .
Click to expand...
Not yet. However, these photos show some of the same issues we've seen on other SD-9 shots. For the most part, they are very good. However, they show some weird artifacts:
  • The res chart shows moire in the center circular area. Think this will only show up on res charts? No such luck: you can also see it on the curves of the "Messe" sign.
  • Greater than expected CA shows up on the res chart again.
  • Other res chart aliasing errors (due to lack of AA filter? Res charts may not be X3 friendly after all.)
  • Dust spots again (or maybe they are the same dust spots)
  • Really odd blown "purple" highlights on the race car. (If this were film, it looks almost like a "hole" in the emulsion.) I think this is the "bright red light" problem again.
If these issues still exist in the production version, does it mean that the SD-9 will be a bad camera? No. It will have some limitations like any other camera. It may be that these issues are important or trivial to your style of photography.

BTW, anyone know if the color the red-orange berries is accurate?

--
Erik
 
richard peters said:
Have these images been discussed? Two sets at 100, 200, 400 ISO .

http://www.numeritest.com/Sigma-SD9.htm

Richard
Click to expand...
Richard,

Of the new images, I chose the ISO 100 version of the Bell Peppers, Squashes & Film to play with. Resized to 300dpi, 7 X 10.5 inches, curves tweaked and moderate USM. Printed on glossy paper on a Canon S800. The print shows outstanding detail, good shadow detail and acurate colors. There are some dust spots and maybe hairs on lower portion of the picture, though not noticeable on the print except under magnification. The print is certainly suitable for my audience. So, the camera does very well for close in subjects as would be expected for a digital camera.
--
Bob Ross
 
These photos are again very good. Noise is not going to be a significant issue IMO. I wonder if the Sigma lenses are going to be able to give justice to this sensor. The resolution chart has lots of colorful CA in it - I DO NOT THINK IT IS A SENSOR ISSUE, since it has a circular-orientation pattern. I didnt see this much CA in Phil's photos taken with the prime lenses he had (50mm and 105mm). It's difficult to believe that anybody would want to take a resolution chart photo with a $300 zoom?! Apparently these guys did...

All in all - this is going to be a h*ll of a camera if you use it with primes (and how cheap those lenses are!).
richard peters said:
Have these images been discussed? Two sets at 100, 200, 400 ISO .

http://www.numeritest.com/Sigma-SD9.htm

Richard
Click to expand...
--
Best wishes,
Zoli
 
richard peters said:
Have these images been discussed? Two sets at 100, 200, 400 ISO .

http://www.numeritest.com/Sigma-SD9.htm

Richard
Click to expand...
Nice Find.

A few observations:

First some crops from the Fruit and Film Box picture.

Taken at ISO100 50F5.6 (don’t know the lens)

http://www.fototime.com/ {2373E0C8-BE1F-457D-8F51-3EA0FB22CB55} picture.JPG

Now taken at ISO400 50F5.6

http://www.fototime.com/ {10069C16-1D10-4998-B927-24067611C569} picture.JPG

Look at the “Kodak” in “Kodak Professional,” on the lower right the Red is fading away. If you can on your monitor scroll so you can see the ISO100 and ISO400 "Kodaks" at the same time. Then look at the Green in the Fuji box, it has “posterized” or gone blotchy (as has been seen in other SD9 pictures). Also look at the white lettering in the Kodak box such as the words “ultra color” you will see the Red bleeding into the white where it did not in the ISO100 shot.

Now for the Messe building shot:

At ISO 100 and 70F5.6:

Look at the purple blow out in the left side of the window and the right side of the white window frame (it might help to use DPREVIEW's 200% option).

http://www.fototime.com/ {B98699DF-21AE-4C27-B8AA-639282F23CC0} picture.JPG

Now for the same shot at ISO400:

http://www.fototime.com/ {FF5ACE74-B56C-41D2-8193-80547533DE2A} picture.JPG

The purple “blowout” from the ISO100 is gone! But now the bricks to the left of the window have a green pattern and purple pattern in them.

I will agree that it is still too early to call for sure, but at least these pictures seem to be much better than the IR ones for making some observations -- It would be nice if they had taken the exact same shots with a D60 for comparison.

Oh yeah, how about them colors in the SD9's B&W test patterns? Ok cheap shot, but there is something strange going on. Folks, it is not chroma aberrations but something going on with the sensor or the software (see also the Messe ISO100 picture above).

Karl

--
Karl
 
Karl Guttag said:
First some crops from the Fruit and Film Box picture.

Taken at ISO100 50F5.6 (don’t know the lens)
Now taken at ISO400 50F5.6
Click to expand...
Did you also notice the ISO 100 shot seems to be much more shape then the ISO 400 shot? I wonder if the RAW sw setting were different then they converted to JPEG.

My assumption here is when those photos are taken, everything other then ISO should be exactly the same, then why the 100 came out more sharp then the 400?

--
jc
Sony F707
http://www.reefkeepers.org/gallery/f707
http://www.reeftec.com/gallery
 
Jimmy Chen said:
Jimmy Chen said:
First some crops from the Fruit and Film Box picture.

Taken at ISO100 50F5.6 (don’t know the lens)
Now taken at ISO400 50F5.6
Click to expand...
Did you also notice the ISO 100 shot seems to be much more shape
then the ISO 400 shot? I wonder if the RAW sw setting were
different then they converted to JPEG.

My assumption here is when those photos are taken, everything other
then ISO should be exactly the same, then why the 100 came out more
sharp then the 400?
Click to expand...
Yes I noticed the softness as well. If you go back on some of my previous comments in the IR thread, I theorized that the X3 might loose resolution in lower light/higher ISO.

I think people have to understand that it is likely that they are running a digital filter of sorts to calculate the final colors. At ISO100 this filter is probably pretty sharp (biased to the center "real" pixel). It would be a fairly obvious trade-off to run a softer filter (that factors in the surrounding pixels more) at higher ISOs so as to keep from going crazy on the colors from any one sample (basically trying to average out the noise). But if there is enough noise it averages out such that the colors fade (in the case of the Kodak red) or you get patches of the same color (in the Case of the Fuji green area).

--
Karl
 
Well,

This crops up again here in a daylit sky at ISO 400, with 1/1500 exposure. So I find myself in dissagreement with those who say noise is not an issue.

http://www.numeritest.com/Foveon/Images/IMG04913.jpg

This is not an impressive performance to my eyes and it is clear they have challenges in sensitivity, due to some combination of fill factor and the silicon transfer curve.
richard peters said:
Have these images been discussed? Two sets at 100, 200, 400 ISO .

http://www.numeritest.com/Sigma-SD9.htm

Richard
Click to expand...
 
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