Supposed F717 Pic (resized)

[Phil Robinson]

What? Are you forgetting the current zoom rocker switch is backwards? Everyone who uses it agrees that it is counter-intuitive. Sony is no marvel of human interface design.

Phil

You didint get my point. Existing design do not require you to move
your hand at all to focus and zoom in and out. The fake design do
and it will cause major camera shake. Both are focus related
features and are used quite often, why would Sony make such a bad
design? It totally goes against Sony's F series "user friendly"
principles.

 

[dave clark28980]

Phil,

I suppose what Jimmy would say is, keep the vertical design but reverse the W and T buttons.

David Clark

Phil

You didint get my point. Existing design do not require you to move
your hand at all to focus and zoom in and out. The fake design do
and it will cause major camera shake. Both are focus related
features and are used quite often, why would Sony make such a bad
design? It totally goes against Sony's F series "user friendly"
principles.

 

[Ulysses]

Hmh. You know this resolution thing is a quite complex field. It is
not only
the photo of a resolution chart but also the anti-aliasing filter
and the sharpening algorithm which play an important roll.
With other words a camera which doesn't deliver the best results in
aspect of a resolution chart might be better in other fields (i.g.
color moire)

Yes, I completely agree. The issue for me now becomes that I enjoy so much the detail of the Sony cameras that I don't know if I'd want to sacrifice it for the slightly lower noise content of the Canon cameras.

Of course, I need to think about what I'll be doing with most of my pictures. For example, will I be printing them? If so, then my issues now lay more with the printer than with the camera. In other words, the camera may not play as large a factor.

But if I'm keeping most of my pictures for onscreen review, then I'm almost certainly going to miss the detail that is somewhat lower in the Canon cameras.

Hmh. I don't know. You are already assimilated by the Sony
cooperation

Hahahahahahahah.... Sony... Canon... they are both irrelevant. I will add their distinctiveness to serve the needs of my collective.

Hahahahahahahahahah.



--

Ulysses

 

[Ulysses]

Jimmy -

It's going to depend on the hands. Believe it or not, lots of hands don't work with the current focus rocker.

So, it's not a bad design. Your opinion right now is that it just may not work satisfactorily for you. That's different.

What I'd suggest is that you take your camera, and then try resting your thumb on the current focus switch. That's approximately where your thumb will (hahahahahah... I'm assuming that this is for real and that you're going to buy the so-called "F717") fall for the zooming action.

Are you actually defending/preferring the vertical F707 zoom rocker
switch? I think this new horizontal design is more intuitive.

You didint get my point. Existing design do not require you to move
your hand at all to focus and zoom in and out. The fake design do
and it will cause major camera shake. Both are focus related
features and are used quite often, why would Sony make such a bad
design? It totally goes against Sony's F series "user friendly"
principles.

--
jc
F707 w/ Nikon 5T/6T
http://www.reefkeepers.org/gallery/f707
http://www.reeftec.com/gallery

--

Ulysses

 

[Ulysses]

Heheheh... user friendly interface design.

I think we sometimes forget the cameras of the past. Remember where the zoom was on the old F505 and on the V?

Remember the D-700 and 770?

Phil

You didint get my point. Existing design do not require you to move
your hand at all to focus and zoom in and out. The fake design do
and it will cause major camera shake. Both are focus related
features and are used quite often, why would Sony make such a bad
design? It totally goes against Sony's F series "user friendly"
principles.

--

Ulysses

 

[staci]

Heheheh... user friendly interface design.

I think we sometimes forget the cameras of the past. Remember where
the zoom was on the old F505 and on the V?

Ulysses

I've missed alot of pictures turning off the camera, when I thought I was zooming in. D'oh! I can't wait to see the actual specs. I'm not sure if I will upgrade from the 505v if it is fairly similar to the current 707. I am still having fun with the 505v.

staci

 

[Ulysses]

not sure if I will upgrade from the 505v if it is fairly similar to
the current 707. I am still having fun with the 505v.

If you can put up with the way that the F505V LCD handles low light conditions, then there's no reason you can't squeeze another few years out of it.

Noise levels are great. Sharpness is great. It's an awesome camera. Don't get swept up by all the excited talk here.

--

Ulysses

 

[Jimmy Chen]

What? Are you forgetting the current zoom rocker switch is
backwards? Everyone who uses it agrees that it is
counter-intuitive. Sony is no marvel of human interface design.

And are you saying a displaced zoom button, where all of your zooms will require you to move your hand and move the camera, is better then a backward button?

Many of you will then come back and complain about the displaced button in no time and wish Sony would have kept the F707 bardward button.

--
jc
F707 w/ Nikon 5T/6T
http://www.reefkeepers.org/gallery/f707
http://www.reeftec.com/gallery

 

[Jimmy Chen]

What I'd suggest is that you take your camera, and then try resting
your thumb on the current focus switch. That's approximately where
your thumb will (hahahahahah... I'm assuming that this is for real
and that you're going to buy the so-called "F717") fall for the
zooming action.

How did you think I came up with all these problems, U? I did, I did ... ;p

Having done exactly what you said when I first saw the fake photo, I no longer could rest the camera in my left hand, as I have to move my whole hand back just so I can access the said region. I then have to move my hand forward in order to gain access to the focus ring. I am not giant, but I know my hand isnt that small either. I'll submit that most women will have the exact same problems as I will with this fake design.

You tell me if this is a good design or not, and you really believe Sony would go thru all these trouble to redesign the body interface to make it worst, and yet not make any other body improvements? What happened the need of image stablization?

--
jc
F707 w/ Nikon 5T/6T
http://www.reefkeepers.org/gallery/f707
http://www.reeftec.com/gallery

 

[Ulysses]

Having done exactly what you said when I first saw the fake photo,
I no longer could rest the camera in my left hand, as I have to
move my whole hand back just so I can access the said region. I
then have to move my hand forward in order to gain access to the
focus ring. I am not giant, but I know my hand isnt that small
either. I'll submit that most women will have the exact same
problems as I will with this fake design.

Heheheh... it's really not that bad. I just did it myself. My thumbs bend just fine. I can reach anything on the barrel except for the white balance button without narry a movement of my whole hand. I don't see where you're coming from here.

But I understand that not all joints work the same.

Try placing it in the hands of a few other people, perhaps and ask them to do the same.

Even if you have to move your hand, I wouldn't go so far as to call it BAD DESIGN. It just won't work for YOU.

You tell me if this is a good design or not, and you really believe
Sony would go thru all these trouble to redesign the body interface
to make it worst, and yet not make any other body improvements?
What happened the need of image stablization?

Heheheh... Sony doesn't make (and neither does any company for that matter) what they don't need to make. And they don't "need" to make an Image Stabilized camera. If the Uzi had done even better (and it was a cult phenomenon), then maybe we'd be talking differently. There is a difference between the needs of the consumer and the wants of the consumer.

--

Ulysses

 

[dave clark28980]

If you can put up with the way that the F505V LCD handles low light
conditions, then there's no reason you can't squeeze another few
years out of it.

Its more than the LCD. Its focusing.

I got rid of my F505V because of poor low-light focusing.
I also got rid of the Nikon 4500 for the same reason.
Reliable focusing is a major issue for me.

Phil's review of the Nikon 4500 and 5700 confirmed that they both have poor low-light focusing too.

David Clark

 

[Andreas P.]

Yes, I completely agree. The issue for me now becomes that I enjoy
so much the detail of the Sony cameras that I don't know if I'd
want to sacrifice it for the slightly lower noise content of the
Canon cameras.

Are you really sure that the Sony reveals significant more details and you are not fooled by a higher contrast combined with a more agressive sharpening algorithm?

To my mind come a comparision of shots of the Tower Bridge. One was taken with the Dull Angel and the other was taken with the Silver Archangel

Hahahahahahahah.... Sony... Canon... they are both irrelevant. I
will add their distinctiveness to serve the needs of my collective.

Hahahahahahahahahah.

´

"Welcome to hell" to state Pinhead

Regards,

Andreas

 

[Ulysses]

Are you really sure that the Sony reveals significant more details
and you are not fooled by a higher contrast combined with a more
agressive sharpening algorithm?

Oh no, we're not going to go through last year's discussion again, are we?

Resolution tests don't lie. Well, at least not much. hahahahah...

You can't reveal what the camera doesn't pick up. Either way, one has to go with what one sees. And if Canon sticks with a 4MP CCD, then it won't be seeing as much detail as I want anyway.

--

Ulysses

 

[Ulysses]

Without focus assist in the dark, I learned to get pretty decent at manually focusing. I had the camera long enough that I didn't find myself overly concerned. Maybe the same has been the case for the other user.

Its more than the LCD. Its focusing.

I got rid of my F505V because of poor low-light focusing.
I also got rid of the Nikon 4500 for the same reason.

--

Ulysses

 

[Phil Robinson]

Exactly! I just tried it and it works fine. I have large hands so I imagine it will work even better for those with smaller hands. Again, Sony is not the greatest when it comes to this sort of thing anyway. Look at the SR laptops. There are ports all over the place in no specific order

Phil

.

Even if you have to move your hand, I wouldn't go so far as to call
it BAD DESIGN. It just won't work for YOU.

 

[hatem tawfik]

Maybe Canon will have the G3 with a 4x zoom and a 4mp sensor, day but this does not mean that a pro90 sequel maybe expected too.

 

[Andreas P.]

Hi Hatem,

Okay the rumours of Chasseur Image have become true quite often in the past but i have no reason to doubt the info from my source which says

a Canon G3 with 38-240 (or so). The 4 MP was only a thought of me because i doubt Canon will put the ICX282 noise generator in its cam

Regards,

Andreas

 

[Gordon Berg]

In this blowup, look at the 3 digits of 717... they are very poorly aligned and spaced while all the other characters are quite precise. And of course, the digit sequence is exactly what cannot be copied intact from another Sony product. I'd give odds it's a fraud.

+ the hotshoe part of the picture looks more noisy : does it come
from another picture, different resolution ?

There is no difference here.

+ the slope and the baseline of the words "movie" and "HQX" are not
the same

Have a look comparing the silk screen text from the P9 with the
so-called "F717". There is no difference here either. The slope and
dimensions are precisely "SONY".



--

Ulysses

 

[BryanS]

a Canon G3 with 38-240 (or so). The 4 MP was only a thought of me
because i doubt Canon will put the ICX282 noise generator in its
cam

Hmm, tasty! What else does your source say??

--
Bryan
http://www.siverly.net

 

[hatem tawfik]

Hi Bryan

I hope you still remeber me from the old G1 days ( you had one didnt you). By the way Andreas has always been a very reliable source of info. I think his source is a german camera man.

Andreas, I will be in Germany to attend a scientific medica meeting 2 days before Photokina , I allready bought the tickets for Photokina from here in Cairo, maybe I can meet you there if you are planning to go.

Hatem Tawfik
Cairo, Egypt