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Is a pro pentax coming
- Thread starter jagge
- Start date
But the D300 is a Nikon and it makes all the difference. I have no illusion of how long even the D300 will sell the moment Nikon make a (semi) affordable FF camera with a lot more than 12mp....
It will will sell because cheap(er) FF camera do not exist. A "Pro" FF Pentax will be an affordable FF camera. A Pro APS camera will be a very expensive APS camera. Many are willing to pay what it cost for a certain image quality level and I'm sure the Pentax FF will be competitive in its sector just like the K20D is.
In addition, an FF Pentax will have a flagship effect; it may have the best resolving sensor in its class. A pro APS DSLR from Pentax now when all the competition are realeasing FF cameras will be met with at big yawn, and it will look like Pentax missed the boat.
It has really nothing to do with being pro. The D700, A900 and 5DMKII all appeal to the amateur previously used APS cameras....and pros of course...
Pro level APS cameras are soon, if not already, history....
Many will wanrt to upgrade to image quality beyond whats available via APS sensors. More than anyone, Pentax have been concerned about image quality (vs. speed). They have to deliver soon one way or another (another way is MF digital).
In adition there lots of people who want to use their old lenses (24 000 000 of them) they way they are intended.
GaryDeM
Veteran Member
i have been reading thje replys. with few exceptions people are calling the k20d pentax and the d300 nikon as the same grade camera. well, they are not. the k20 is an advanced amatuer while the d300 is a semipro. the nikon d3 is the pro grade. so iof pentax, and i think they will, brings out a k1d(?) dslr it will compete with the nikon d300 and the canon 40d.
a replyer above is talking in one breath about the pentax *istD as pro with the canon 1d series. the *istD was never a pro grade camera it was semipro, and pentax since then has been bringing out dslr that have been in the amatuer grade of some level. pentax does not have a semipro or pro grade camera i its lineup.
as the owner of the *istD, i am waiting for the semipro successor to the *istD. that camera will have the features and abilities of the d300 nikon but in a pentax package. if pentax brings it out in september or the winter i will buy it. if they bring out a FF dslr i will not. i have no use for a FF dslr especilaly at a price that is going to be $2-3000 for FF. at b&h right now the canon 5d is $2400 the nikon d700 is $3000. one should note that the canon is price cut since it will be replaced soon. while the nikon is not. the question is how many of the people who say they want a pentax FF are going to pay $3000 to get it, knowing that all their just recently bought c sensor lenses will not work with the camera? the other question is if a pentax FF came out how many copies will they sell in a year? how long will it take to get their investment back to make it? when/if pentax came out with a FF dslr they are not competiung with nobody, unlike the canon 5d which had the market to themselves. the poentax FF would compete in a market that already had a canon nikon and sony ff already. and unlike the others pentax does not have any FF lenses in the manufacturing stream. the others do.
my view is they would be nuts to bring out a FF dslr. they are a niche maker and should stick to what made them a success that niche.
a replyer above is talking in one breath about the pentax *istD as pro with the canon 1d series. the *istD was never a pro grade camera it was semipro, and pentax since then has been bringing out dslr that have been in the amatuer grade of some level. pentax does not have a semipro or pro grade camera i its lineup.
as the owner of the *istD, i am waiting for the semipro successor to the *istD. that camera will have the features and abilities of the d300 nikon but in a pentax package. if pentax brings it out in september or the winter i will buy it. if they bring out a FF dslr i will not. i have no use for a FF dslr especilaly at a price that is going to be $2-3000 for FF. at b&h right now the canon 5d is $2400 the nikon d700 is $3000. one should note that the canon is price cut since it will be replaced soon. while the nikon is not. the question is how many of the people who say they want a pentax FF are going to pay $3000 to get it, knowing that all their just recently bought c sensor lenses will not work with the camera? the other question is if a pentax FF came out how many copies will they sell in a year? how long will it take to get their investment back to make it? when/if pentax came out with a FF dslr they are not competiung with nobody, unlike the canon 5d which had the market to themselves. the poentax FF would compete in a market that already had a canon nikon and sony ff already. and unlike the others pentax does not have any FF lenses in the manufacturing stream. the others do.
my view is they would be nuts to bring out a FF dslr. they are a niche maker and should stick to what made them a success that niche.
DLBlack
Forum Pro
GaryD, I agree with you. The K20D is a really good camera but it is not a semi-pro level of camera. I have owned the *ist DS, the K10D and now the K20D. I have money ready to buy a K1D when it is available. The image quality of the K20D with its APC-S sensor is good enough for me to make some excellent 12"x18" prints and I really don't see me making prints any larger. Now if the K1D has an improved second generation sensor, 100% viewfinder, improved AF and fast fps I will be really happy. I am sure there will be other improvements such as larger monitor and improved Liveview. I am also guessing it will be in an larger body, which will not make me happy, but guess I will have to live wiht it.
I really don't see a FF sensor from any camera maker selling for less than $2,000 and more likely closer to $3,000. The 5D has dropped in price sense Canon is clearing out stock before the replacement model is out. The new Canon will cost nearly the same as the D700.
With Pentax there is also the problem with new FF lenses. If I was spending $2,500 on a FF camera I would want to have some new high quality SDM lenses to go with it.
I am sure Pentax will get an FF camera out within a year after the K#D. By then there might be a few new FF lenes. Still I don't think I would be able to afford such a system.
Dave
I really don't see a FF sensor from any camera maker selling for less than $2,000 and more likely closer to $3,000. The 5D has dropped in price sense Canon is clearing out stock before the replacement model is out. The new Canon will cost nearly the same as the D700.
With Pentax there is also the problem with new FF lenses. If I was spending $2,500 on a FF camera I would want to have some new high quality SDM lenses to go with it.
I am sure Pentax will get an FF camera out within a year after the K#D. By then there might be a few new FF lenes. Still I don't think I would be able to afford such a system.
Dave
honestly I'd just love to see
a) New AF system (key factor)
b) Increase burst shooting
That is all really. I already love my K100D and would only move up...but it would be nice to hook up focus better and faster. I don't use it in many situations where I need to do that, so it isn't a huge focus...but when I do use it, it is disappointing that it is slow.
By the time I would be looking to add a second body (end of next year), I would hope they have fixed things
a) New AF system (key factor)
b) Increase burst shooting
That is all really. I already love my K100D and would only move up...but it would be nice to hook up focus better and faster. I don't use it in many situations where I need to do that, so it isn't a huge focus...but when I do use it, it is disappointing that it is slow.
By the time I would be looking to add a second body (end of next year), I would hope they have fixed things
brendan PK
Senior Member
I would love to see a K20Ds, Mainly faster/more memory and faster af/fps (ofcourse) even if they could just do the AF, that would be valuable for me and I would ditch my current K20D for it.
A K30D is unlikely as the K20D is still "new"
A preview of a K1D atleast body-shell underglass would be nice
--
K20D+K10D+LBA=no$$$ but happy
Over 250K DSLR actions and counting
Remember: Too much Measurbating will make you go blind!
A K30D is unlikely as the K20D is still "new"
A preview of a K1D atleast body-shell underglass would be nice
--
K20D+K10D+LBA=no$$$ but happy
Over 250K DSLR actions and counting
Remember: Too much Measurbating will make you go blind!
A new segment will be consituted by the cameras mentioned here, no doubt, and it will attract many serious/advanced amateurs.
What we are seeing is a further diversification of segments as the DSLR market matures. Excisting segments - like high-end APS - will not disappear, but the market will be divided between more segments (which is one more reason why Pentax is being somewhat cornered right now with only two models).
Sounds pretty expensive to me.
Sony is fighting an uphill battle for sure, but they're doing it - fighting in actual actions - via development, marketing, sales - moving market share right now.
Is Pentax?
There's a significant difference in price between the D700 and the D300, and Nikon could lower the price of the D300 with no risk of harming the sales of the upcoming D90.
We are seeing more segments in the market, APS for serious/advanced amateurs is not to disappear anytime soon for sure.
Roland Mabo
Forum Pro
So the K20D does not compete with the Canon 40D? They cost almost the same...
But Pentax did this already with the K10D.
The K10D is a *ist D with weather sealing (a professional feature), shake reduction, more exposure options. It has a similar built with a metal chassi, same pentaprism viewfinder with interchangeable screens, wireless flash support, MTF program line (a function Pentax saves for it's semi pro models). The K20D is an upgrade to the K10D and adds PC sync socket, a new sensor and improved image quality and trimmed performance.
So, if the *ist D was a semi-pro camera, then the K10D and K20D must be too since they are more advanced models than the *ist D was.
--
Take care
R
http://www.flickr.com/photos/raphaelmabo
gustabod
Senior Member
correct, and frankly the large players can invent new segments quicker than it takes Pentax to get anything out in the market.
Canon and Nikon have at last count 6 models, and probably more coming, Sony about 4 and growing, Oly 3. In the time that Pentax took to get a K10/20 out, Sony added a number of models/variants and couple of new sensors, lens range etc, to position them nicely behind the leaders
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gustavo
http://www.pbase.com/gustabod
Canon and Nikon have at last count 6 models, and probably more coming, Sony about 4 and growing, Oly 3. In the time that Pentax took to get a K10/20 out, Sony added a number of models/variants and couple of new sensors, lens range etc, to position them nicely behind the leaders
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gustavo
http://www.pbase.com/gustabod
GaryDeM
Veteran Member
roland m-
you can have anything compete with anything. but it is still is not the type of machine that it meant to compete directly with the d300 and 40d both of which are semipro as built, the k20 is not. it was never built that way. the fact that it does so well in direct comparisons says a lot about the camera's abilities and pentax. what it is really saying is pentax's amateur grade dslr can do well agianst the semipro cameras of other makers because pentax does build them very well. against canon the direct competition is probably the 450d, which the k20d beats easily.
this is a direct quote from the pentax page that has the k20d-
"The PENTAX K20D digital SLR offers advanced photo enthusiasts an array of exciting PENTAX innovations"
please note the words "advanced photo enthusiasts". that is not semipro. it is advanced amateur. i used the term advanced amatuer camera because that is what pentax is calling it.
you can have anything compete with anything. but it is still is not the type of machine that it meant to compete directly with the d300 and 40d both of which are semipro as built, the k20 is not. it was never built that way. the fact that it does so well in direct comparisons says a lot about the camera's abilities and pentax. what it is really saying is pentax's amateur grade dslr can do well agianst the semipro cameras of other makers because pentax does build them very well. against canon the direct competition is probably the 450d, which the k20d beats easily.
this is a direct quote from the pentax page that has the k20d-
"The PENTAX K20D digital SLR offers advanced photo enthusiasts an array of exciting PENTAX innovations"
please note the words "advanced photo enthusiasts". that is not semipro. it is advanced amateur. i used the term advanced amatuer camera because that is what pentax is calling it.
It's a rather dramatic change from only a year or two ago when everything was about getting the manufacturing lines to make more pieces just to go with the overall growth of the market. Pentax hardly managed to follow the overall market, thereby steadily losing market share.
Now that market growth is smaller, focus on segmentation is already much stronger. More differentation between more models. How Pentax will come about this is yet to be seen. Having only two - in some basic features rather archaic - models is not matching the present market situation, really.
Summed up nicely, IMO.
Agreed so far. Unfortunately, I find it harder to follow your view on the following.
Is the K20 really doing so well? Only a few months back, Hoya said DSLR sales were 'sluggish', the street price has been lowered rather dramatically and have a look at 1st half sales figures from Japan to get the picture straight.
In terms of price, the K20 is closer to 40D, which is even cheaper when discounted by Canon.
Sony uses the same term - 'advanced amateur' about their A700 model which is directly targeted at Canon's 40D.
Roland Mabo
Forum Pro
The thing is that you wrote "the *istD was never a pro grade camera it was semipro".
So you say that the *ist D was semipro.
Then you say that the K10D and K20D are "advanced amateur".
But both the K10D and K20D are more advanced models than the *ist D with features as seen in professional models, like the weather sealing. (the *ist D does not have weather sealing).
So I simply don't understand to how you can call a simpler camera with a consumer build quality for "semi pro" and a more advanced camera with weather sealing for "advanced amateur". I'm sorry, but I don't get it.
The K10D replaced the *ist D and the K20D replaced the K10D.
--
Take care
R
http://www.flickr.com/photos/raphaelmabo
So you say that the *ist D was semipro.
Then you say that the K10D and K20D are "advanced amateur".
But both the K10D and K20D are more advanced models than the *ist D with features as seen in professional models, like the weather sealing. (the *ist D does not have weather sealing).
So I simply don't understand to how you can call a simpler camera with a consumer build quality for "semi pro" and a more advanced camera with weather sealing for "advanced amateur". I'm sorry, but I don't get it.
The K10D replaced the *ist D and the K20D replaced the K10D.
--
Take care
R
http://www.flickr.com/photos/raphaelmabo
Roland Mabo
Forum Pro
The K20D does indeed do very well against Canon 40D, Nikon D300 and Sony A700.
Perhaps not so much in terms of sales (no Pentax cameras does), but in terms of praise by reviewers and users. The K20D has gotten many fine verdicts in many magazines around the globe, and those magazines tends to compare the K20D against the "semi pro" competition. So here, the K20D does very well. Not so much in terms of continous shooting speed, but in terms of image quality, features and build quality.
--
Take care
R
http://www.flickr.com/photos/raphaelmabo
Perhaps not so much in terms of sales (no Pentax cameras does), but in terms of praise by reviewers and users. The K20D has gotten many fine verdicts in many magazines around the globe, and those magazines tends to compare the K20D against the "semi pro" competition. So here, the K20D does very well. Not so much in terms of continous shooting speed, but in terms of image quality, features and build quality.
--
Take care
R
http://www.flickr.com/photos/raphaelmabo
Roland Mabo
Forum Pro
Then they will make a D300 with a lot more than 12mp.
What you call "affordable" is what I call "expensive" and what you call "expensive" is what I call "affordable". This is beacuse a 24x36 from Pentax would cost much more than a pro APS-C, we're talking at least twice the price. I don't call this "affordable", I call this "expensive". But the pro APS-C, at half the price, is "affordable" not "expensive".
But who is gonna buy it?
Pentax users with lots of money? They have already switched to Canon 1DS.
It is known that amateurs wishes to buy pro-cameras yes (because they believe they get images as a pro if they buys a pro camera), but the cameras you mention are very expensive cameras.
No, not when a pro APS-C cost half the price of a pro 24x36.
I doubt that it exist so many Pentax users that are willing to pay more than 4 000 Euro on a camera from Pentax.
And all those millions of users has the funds to buy a camera for + 4 000 Euros?
In a world with a big economic decline, financial instability and regression?
I do have my doubts about that.
--
Take care
R
http://www.flickr.com/photos/raphaelmabo
GaryDeM
Veteran Member
2 points-
-you are and maybe others are confusing features with as built qulity. they are not the same. it is like saying that if you put enough optional equipment on a ford focus you now have a lincoln luxery car. it is not gonna happen. it is still a compact car no matter how many features and options are put on the car. i said- the words "advanced photo enthusiasts". that is not semipro. it is advanced amateur. i used the term advanced amatuer camera because that is what pentax is calling it. the pentax company is not calling the camera a semipro. they are using the terms adavanced enthusiaist or advanced amatuer. you arguement is with pentax, not me. they are not calling their own camera a semipro and i am not either.
-for myself, i am waiting patiently for the k1d(?) to come out. if it is a significant upgrade to the k20d then i will get it. if not i will get the k20d. my desire is that the k1d wil have a reworked k20 sensor and other features similar to the d300. i am not interested in a faster fps, i do not use that ability now. so as least for me fps is a nonissue. my desire is to put a cf slot on the camera, dual slots maybe 1 each type. so as to get some continuing use from all my cf memory. this would at least tell me that pentax cares abouit all the owners of the *istd. if not i will buy anyway, but it would be a nice gesture from pentax. both nikon and canon have dual slots on their top dslrs.
-you are and maybe others are confusing features with as built qulity. they are not the same. it is like saying that if you put enough optional equipment on a ford focus you now have a lincoln luxery car. it is not gonna happen. it is still a compact car no matter how many features and options are put on the car. i said- the words "advanced photo enthusiasts". that is not semipro. it is advanced amateur. i used the term advanced amatuer camera because that is what pentax is calling it. the pentax company is not calling the camera a semipro. they are using the terms adavanced enthusiaist or advanced amatuer. you arguement is with pentax, not me. they are not calling their own camera a semipro and i am not either.
-for myself, i am waiting patiently for the k1d(?) to come out. if it is a significant upgrade to the k20d then i will get it. if not i will get the k20d. my desire is that the k1d wil have a reworked k20 sensor and other features similar to the d300. i am not interested in a faster fps, i do not use that ability now. so as least for me fps is a nonissue. my desire is to put a cf slot on the camera, dual slots maybe 1 each type. so as to get some continuing use from all my cf memory. this would at least tell me that pentax cares abouit all the owners of the *istd. if not i will buy anyway, but it would be a nice gesture from pentax. both nikon and canon have dual slots on their top dslrs.
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