forum grammar

[Chato]

This ieSpell thingy does NOT use proper english, hence the
underlining of the word 'colour' which, by the primitives in San
Diego, is spelled 'color'.

Seen from Europe, it does not seem that many people in the US paid
attention while they were in school.

It takes a real optimist to talk about anglo-saxon 'culture' . . .

Both versions are correct. One is common in Britain, the other in the US and Canada. Or should we all speak English like the King James Bible?

Dave

 

[baloo_buc]

Brian,

Remember that some of the users don't have English as first language. English is my third language.

I have no problems with these mistakes so you should have less or equal problems since it's your first language.

The problem should be with the people that have English as first language (and often the only one) and make these types of mistakes.
--
Victor
Bucuresti, Romania
http://s106.photobucket.com/albums/m268/victor_petcu/

 

[Kreitmann]

The language written here in this forum is not "English", not the language of Oxford or Havard, it is just like the people using it. Manifold, irregular, international. And just like cameras it is developing all the time.

I studied german literature and I am really amused to read this concerned messages about the english language. It is afterall (or is it after all?) the language of choice for this forum. Not Chinese, Spanish, French, German or something else.

And for this degrading grammar. Can you imagin that French was Latin once. How did they do that? The messed up all the logical grammar and the spelling as well. The people in medieval france must have been totally consumed with TV or internet-forums like this on here. (Ok, I am exaggerating...)

Happy speaking

Richard

 

[igb]

a) English grammar is like a : Simple to grab but difficult to
master. Spelling is kinda gay, too.
b) Spelling skills peak when one is about 14 y.o.
c) Spell checkers are awfully dear

;O)

regards
--
-------------------------------------------------------
My Galleries: http://webs.ono.com/igonzalezbordes/index.html

a) No it's not, I can spell and I'm hetero.

b) Maybe, but there's no reason why your spelling skills should go
downhill after that.
c) No they're not, download the free Google toolbar and you get a
spell checker with it.

You really managed to depress me, man.

Take care.
--
-------------------------------------------------------
My Galleries: http://webs.ono.com/igonzalezbordes/index.html

 

[boxf1]

You are not prvented from undrestadning this message because of the misspleings poor puncutation or bad grammar, so your point is meaningless. Just because you have trouble reading anything but perfect English does not mean that others have the same issues. And here, my "poor presentation" has made my point abundantly clear.

I respect and take seriously people's quality of work; I can not care less if they misspell or misuse grammar, particularly in a forum, where the goal is to communicate reasonably well, not evaluate syntax.

Because we don't care how one spells; we care about one's insights,
knowledge, and questions. That is why a good math teacher doesn't
give lower grades for incorrect grammar or spelling; it has nothing
to do with the mastery of the subject at hand.

Presentation has everything to do with insights, knowledge, and
questions and everything to do with mastery of the subject at hand.
Those insights won't be taken seriously or, in many cases, even
understood correctly if they're poorly presented.

----------------
http://www.pbase.com/tmalcom/

 

[LeRentier]

This discussion, or shall we call it a series of rants, is not about dialects and local variations of a language but about a generalized downhill trend of quality to the point where some posts become meaningless except to the person who wrote them.

BTW, the purest real german is spoken in Luxemburg.

 

[Stujoe]

How can one seriously consider the comments from a poster who writes,
"Nikon is better then Canon"

Me thinks you is confuzing phutography wit rokket sciunce.

--
Stujoe - Camera User
http://www.DigitalPhotoPeople.com

.

 

[boxf1]

give lower grades for incorrect grammar or spelling; it has nothing
to do with the mastery of the subject at hand.

That is really a silly remark coming from a period of thinking in
which getting your meaning across was the most important thing. This
has lead to a generation of pupils/adults that have become functional
illeterates and less successful on the labour market.

When a person is comfortable in his own skin, there is a level of graciousness toward those who are less developed.

Those who are taking the time to pick on this nonsense of minor grammatical errors, in the name of intelligibility, particularly within the context of a casual forum, more than likely have a deep self discomfort.

--
teph

 

[Mareda]

This discussion, or shall we call it a series of rants, is not about
dialects and local variations of a language but about a generalized
downhill trend of quality to the point where some posts become
meaningless except to the person who wrote them.

BTW, the purest real german is spoken in Luxemburg.

No, it's about people who want to nitpick. And really, if small mistakes make the post meaningless, we're all responding to a meaningless post, aren't we?

 

[danegeld]

Since when is it snobby and elitist to spell correctly and use proper
grammar

Where do I state that it's snobby and elitist to spell correctly and
use proper grammar?

Where you said, "this kind of snobby elitist attitude really bothers
me".

----------------
http://www.pbase.com/tmalcom/

You do know you're misstating what I wrote, do you not?

No where in my post do I say that it's snobby and elitist to spell
correctly and use proper grammar. The statement you point to doesn't
indicate I said that either. Kindly go back and read through my post
once more. You're not understanding what I said.

I'm not misstating what you wrote at all. I'm quoting it exactly. You
stated that complaining about poor spelling and grammar in forum
posts shows a "snobby elitist attitude". You also said a woman who
works in a school and criticized another poster for the same thing
"made herself out to look like a small, mean-spirited person". These
are not taken out of context and they mean exactly what they say. By
implication, you're saying that anyone who complains about incorrect
spelling and grammar is snobby, elitist, and mean-spirited. You might
want to read your own posts.

----------------
http://www.pbase.com/tmalcom/

NOW you're properly quoting me! Yes, I do believe it shows a snobby
and elitist attitude when people complain about others not having
proper grammar skills. As you can see by the replies, even the
original poster is guilty of improper grammar, so these minor
infractions should be forgiven. To be so critical of others not only
seems snobby and elitist in my eyes, but often comes back to bite one
on the butt, as we've seen here.

As for why I feel this way, I've already given my reasons. Lucky for
us that we were from environments that put a high premium on
education and we were able to learn such things. That's not the case
with everyone, so the kinder thing is to give them a break. When I
was taught grammar I was also taught etiquette and compassion. I
don't think one trumps the other two.

This isn't what your initial question was, however. You initially
asked me, "Since when is it snobby and elitist to spell correctly and
use proper grammar?" I never said it was, I merely said that
criticizing others for not having proper grammar skills is snobby and
elitist. There's a difference.

By that logic, it's better to just step back and let others perform whatever atrocities they want on the language or anything else, for that matter. It doesn't really matter as long as we don't ever criticize and don't ever offend anyone, no matter how wrong they are.

----------------
http://www.pbase.com/tmalcom/

 

[teph]

give lower grades for incorrect grammar or spelling; it has nothing
to do with the mastery of the subject at hand.

That is really a silly remark coming from a period of thinking in
which getting your meaning across was the most important thing. This
has lead to a generation of pupils/adults that have become functional
illeterates and less successful on the labour market.

When a person is comfortable in his own skin, there is a level of
graciousness toward those who are less developed.

Those who are taking the time to pick on this nonsense of minor
grammatical errors, in the name of intelligibility, particularly
within the context of a casual forum, more than likely have a deep
self discomfort.

That may be true for messages on a forum, but deficiency in language skills is a growing problem. Our government (Dutch) spends millions of Euros on programmes to improve general language skills.

The mistakes made on this or other fora may not seem grave to many people (they probably are not), but are also made in situations where it matters.

--
teph

--
teph

 

[optical_illusion]

I think there is always a possibility that wrong grammar and spelling become right ones as time goes by. As the saying goes, bad money drives out good.

PS: It's fun to read etymological dictionaries, which tell how words have evolved.

 

[boxf1]

When a person is comfortable in his own skin, there is a level of
graciousness toward those who are less developed.

Those who are taking the time to pick on this nonsense of minor
grammatical errors, in the name of intelligibility, particularly
within the context of a casual forum, more than likely have a deep
self discomfort.

Again, the discussion is about forum grammar, though I agree that good language skills for many aspects of life are of the utmost importance.

The fact that your government spends untold millions on this does not legitimize the issue. My government spends tens of billions of dollars on wasteful programmes. The money spent has no correlation to the value of the ideas.

That may be true for messages on a forum, but deficiency in language
skills is a growing problem. Our government (Dutch) spends millions
of Euros on programmes to improve general language skills.
The mistakes made on this or other fora may not seem grave to many
people (they probably are not), but are also made in situations where
it matters.

--
teph

--
teph

 

[bruce wilcock]

i have enjoyed my cameras, for 50 years, but this grammar minefield, keeps me from contributing , i have no hesitation with the artisan forums ,comment is passed ,but soon shot down,we want to learn from each other ,usually the ones that make all the noise are duds on the anvil
--
t rust me, i'm a Blacksmith

 

[teph]

.

Again, the discussion is about forum grammar, though I agree that
good language skills for many aspects of life are of the utmost
importance.

The fact that your government spends untold millions on this does not
legitimize the issue. My government spends tens of billions of
dollars on wasteful programmes. The money spent has no correlation to
the value of the ideas.

This forum is about photography, so this whole thread is rather OT. Still I like to emphasize that putting money in government programmes can support good principles. Anyway those who are not able to find a job will get ample social security, which comes from the taxes of those who have leant their grammar and spelling to an acceptable level. I am a non-native, still I do apologise for all my language mistakes.
--
teph

 

[Mareda]

By that logic, it's better to just step back and let others perform
whatever atrocities they want on the language or anything else, for
that matter. It doesn't really matter as long as we don't ever
criticize and don't ever offend anyone, no matter how wrong they are.

----------------
http://www.pbase.com/tmalcom/

Oh, good Lord, no!! Committing an atrocity such as using the word 'to' when it should have been 'too' should be loudly dealt with by all those whose sensibilities are offended by such egregious mistakes. Feel free to do what you will with those lowly ignorant people - - starting with the original poster.

I'm glad you've stopped misquoting me, but let's move on to what the word atrocious means:

1 : extremely wicked, brutal, or cruel : BARBARIC
2 : APPALLING , HORRIFYING
3 a : utterly revolting : ABOMINABLE b : of very poor quality

All that because someone isn't as literate as you think they should be? That viewpoint is a little too regal and high horse for me.

Once again these nitpicky complaints are too much like, "Why do those people have to drive their rusty old cars through OUR neighborhood? Why don't they go get a nice car like the rest of us have?"

If anything, I think pointing out one's shortcomings is cruel AND ignorant and I have to question the motives behind it.

 

[danegeld]

By that logic, it's better to just step back and let others perform
whatever atrocities they want on the language or anything else, for
that matter. It doesn't really matter as long as we don't ever
criticize and don't ever offend anyone, no matter how wrong they are.

----------------
http://www.pbase.com/tmalcom/

Oh, good Lord, no!! Committing an atrocity such as using the word
'to' when it should have been 'too' should be loudly dealt with by
all those whose sensibilities are offended by such egregious
mistakes. Feel free to do what you will with those lowly ignorant
people - - starting with the original poster.

I'm glad you've stopped misquoting me, but let's move on to what the
word atrocious means:

1 : extremely wicked, brutal, or cruel : BARBARIC
2 : APPALLING , HORRIFYING
3 a : utterly revolting : ABOMINABLE b : of very poor quality

All that because someone isn't as literate as you think they should
be? That viewpoint is a little too regal and high horse for me.

Once again these nitpicky complaints are too much like, "Why do those
people have to drive their rusty old cars through OUR neighborhood?
Why don't they go get a nice car like the rest of us have?"

If anything, I think pointing out one's shortcomings is cruel AND
ignorant and I have to question the motives behind it.

It doesn't have anything to do with being regal or on a high horse. It has to do with clarity and presentation. If the spelling and grammar are sloppy, the content is automatically suspect. As for questioning my motives and calling me cruel and ignorant, I'd question yours motives as well. Why are you defending poor language? Was it cruel and ignorant when I corrected and rewrote submissions from less-than-skillful writers during my years as a magazine editor? Should I have just published them as they were and let the writers be embarrassed? It's attitudes like yours that have led to the deplorable state of education and the highest illiteracy rates in decades.

----------------
http://www.pbase.com/tmalcom/

 

[NIK11]

There are very few threads that I do not understand, regardless of grammar. That is quite impressive for an international forum, an education in itself and a credit to contributors whose first language is not English.

The only time I draw breath is when someone describes a photo coming out of a compact as 'AWESOME'. Awesome??? Where I come from that word is normally reserved for events of frightening power - tornado, lightning, Apollo launch, even 9/11. Clearly a clash of cultures.

But wouldn't it be boring if we were all the same and everybody produced perfect grammar?

Nick

 

[Chipsthe1]

I rally hate to enter into this discussion because my grammar is good, maybe gooder than any other poster. As for spelling, President Andrew Jackson declared, "I do not have much respect for a man who can only spell a word one way."
--
Shoot lots of pictures, always fill the frame

 

[Brian]

I feel sorry for your brother. ouch

Please take my last post as being nothing more than my being a
smart-*$$. I'm afraid I spent too much time talking to my brother on
the phone this morning and this is the typical banter he and I have,
so it kind of carried over.

--
Brian