How Do You European Photographers Do It?

[David Hughes124436]

Hi,

Will this give some idea? Due to an incident in the army many years ago I have a lot of problems with my hearing. So I have a couple of hearing aids and needed an operation before they fitted them. I waited a week to 10 days for the pre-op examination and then a week to ten days later went in for the operation and got a nice room to myself. I didn't need to stay over night as all went well. In the course of this I saw three consultants, one of who was the surgeon who did the op and later on agreed the discharge. A while later I got two digital hearing aids fitted (like beans in size) and that was that (batteries are free for life btw).

Later on I read in the paper that the Govt and some charity for the deaf had designed the service together. The charity had persuaded the Govt that by using their buying power and standardising the model the cost of them could be brought down to about £75 a time (about US $105 then). Being curious I looked up the cost on the internet in the good old U&S of A. Most people were advertising them (same model) and fitting for US $2,300 a side...

Does that factual example help in the debate?

Regards, David

STAN46 wrote:
I am sorry, I do not understand what you are saying. All I was
pointing out was that for the same level of health, the average
American gets to pay more, directly or indirectly.

 

[David Hughes124436]

I hope that someday we will be able to put away our fears and
prejudices and just laugh at people.

We've been doing thatfor years. It keeps some of us sane (relatively speaking).

Regards, David

 

[olyflyer]

For those of you that are interested (not many it seems to me) this
article is the start of understanding:

http://www.businessupdated.com/shownews.asp?news_id=1584&cat=Statutory+minimum+wages:+variations+from+82+to+1503+euro+gross+per+month

In a nutshell it covers minimum wages in most European countries and
the USA (which is just above Greece).

Regards, David

Thanks David, interesting to read. Stranage that both in the USA and UK, 1.4% of employees received the minimum wage. You may not think that that is a lot, but considering the difference in health care and social services system, that is huge if you ask me, since I guess, it is easier to survive on minimum wage in UK than in US.

Just yesterday, dring home I heard a radio program about homeless, living on welfare, youth in Los Angeles. There are about 30 000 of them. Even if it is a big city, comparable with some european countries I doubt that there are that many homeless youth in Sweden (9 million inhabitants), Norway, Denmark, Finland, Switzerland, Holland, Belgium or any other small european countries of that magnitude of population. And they were ONLY looking at youth, defined as between 16-26 years of age. I know LA is a magnet, but come on...

 

[Redandwhite]

Oh totally, prices here are really high for anything photographic.

Additionally, there are very few photographic shops here at all.

I saw the 400D with the regular 18-55 kit selling for Lm400 = $1,272 USD
the D40 with kit lens selling for Lm262 = $833 USD
the D80 body only selling for Lm385 = $1,224 USD
and the E-500 body only selling for Lm350 = $1,113 USD

It's a way of life here to pay over and get paid under

Of course that's why so many over here love to use eBay for shopping

--
I hope you got my point,
Redandwhite from Malta.
Photos at --> http://redandwhite.deviantart.com

 

[olyflyer]

I buy all my gear on-line. There are some good on-line shops in
germany. BUT they are not as cheap as buying in US. Adding handling /
shipment and finally the 25% import tax (to Denmark) still makes it
cheaper buying from US. If the difference (in total) is not big, I go
for an european on-line shop. Else I buy from US.

Ever considered visiting Sweden? It is supposedly much cheaper than Denmark, and definitely cheaper than German on-line shops I have seen in consumer electronics and digital cameras. There is a bridge now between DK and SE, and I could give you a few addresses if you are interested, in Malmö or/and Lund, the two towns nearest the bridge.

 

[Oombongo]

Here E-510 (body only) costs around 731.90 €.
Of course, it includes 22% taxes.

We pay taxes on everything except for breathing and crapping.

You take divorce, you pay taxes. You are unemployed and get social, you pay taxes. Yo even pay taxes when you are old, never been unemployed and had your own private retirement fund (for which you paid when you were young after paying taxes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!).

Taxes is one of the reason which keeps talented folks away from Finland. I'd prefer to move to US someday.

 

[Oombongo]

I buy all my gear on-line. There are some good on-line shops in
germany. BUT they are not as cheap as buying in US. Adding handling /
shipment and finally the 25% import tax (to Denmark) still makes it
cheaper buying from US. If the difference (in total) is not big, I go
for an european on-line shop. Else I buy from US.

import taxes when you buy something from Germany to Denmark? Isn't Denmark in EU? You shouldn't be paying any import duty unless there is some retarded politician working as a lobbyist for local photo gear dealers. I didn't pay any import duty when I bought my PDA from Germany.

However, we do pay heavy taxes when we import new cars from other country. It is against EU policy but we got a few schmucks sitting in parliament as lobbyists for local car dealers.

Man, I hate politicians.

 

[Jørgen Christensen]

Ever considered visiting Sweden? It is supposedly much cheaper than
Denmark, and definitely cheaper than German on-line shops I have seen
in consumer electronics and digital cameras. There is a bridge now
between DK and SE, and I could give you a few addresses if you are
interested, in Malmö or/and Lund, the two towns nearest the bridge.

As I live quite close to Copenhagen (and the bridge) that would be easy to do. Actually, I did not think of Sweden as land of good camera prices.

Now I think of it... Hmm.. I bought my slingshot 200 camerabag on-line last year by Scandinavian photo. And that was at a good price...

So... Yes please... A few addresses in Malmø and Lund.

Bridge to Sweden on the horizon:



Thanks in advance
Jørgen
http://www.pbase.com/jchriste

 

[Jørgen Christensen]

import taxes when you buy something from Germany to Denmark? Isn't
Denmark in EU?

That is right. No import tax from EU (and Germany). Maybe I wan not totally clear in my writing. From outside EU.. TAX.

However, we do pay heavy taxes when we import new cars from other
country. It is against EU policy but we got a few schmucks sitting in
parliament as lobbyists for local car dealers.

That's right. Same here.

Man, I hate politicians.

Actually, I don't hate them. But I don't understand them... At least not most of them...

Kind regards Jørgen
http://www.pbase.com/jchriste

 

[Effzeeone]

That's true, but it doesn't have a direct bearing on the cost of
cameras, lenses, and other photographic gear.

I don't know what an Olympus DSLR costs in, say, Paris compared to
what it costs at B&H Photo Video in New York, but I do know that
bread and pastries from bakeries are typically 50-60% cheaper in
Paris than in the States.

After touring Spain, Itally, and France for the last two weeks, I have to tell you that the prices you're quoting were not my experience at all. And I wasn't always in tourist towns -- most of my experience was in port cities (ie, industry and not tourist -- we traveled to the tourist cities by bus or train). I can get a loaf of bread in America for $0.89 at any grocery store. When I could find a grocery store during my European vacation (I found a total of two even after asking locals), I was easily paying 5x that amount for a 3 croissants. I was easily paying $10 for a 2-egg, 2-bacon, single slice of toast breakfast at local cafes, and that didn't include the $3 cup of coffee that came with no free refills even though I was eating at the cafe. The same breakfast in a local Florida diner is $4.95 (and that's overpriced) and comes with more meat and toast, as well as an endless supply of coffee.

Simply put, Europe was a great place to visit, but there is no way that we could live there primarily due to simple cost of living: food, real estate, transportation. On our return to the USA the other day, we made a trip to the usual grocery store to get the usual two-week array of staples. $180 was the total, and that included a significant amount of binge food that the kids missed so much while in Europe. On the way back from the airport, I noticed our fuel prices were $2.85 per GALLON. We're also building a 3,000+ square foot home on 3/4 acre of land for 1/3 of the price that a 2-bedroom flat of 1/6th the square footage (and no land/yard) would cost in Spain, Italy, or France.

I'll pay for healthcare any day over the exponentially higher day-to-day costs of just living in Europe. I don't get sick that much. I have four children, which means more frequent visits to the doctor, and I'm still WAY ahead financially by paying for healthcare while having significantly reduced cost of living.

For the record: $3,300 per year in health insurance for my family of six, not including a small co-pay for each visit (like $30) and $15-20 for medical prescriptions. That will cover catastrophic as well as general wellness, and keep in mind that our health insurance is somewhat on the high side because of having four relatively young children. As our household dwindles down to two children and two adults in the near future, that yearly premium will be roughly cut in half.

--

Chris

 

[olyflyer]

I buy all my gear on-line. There are some good on-line shops in
germany. BUT they are not as cheap as buying in US. Adding handling /
shipment and finally the 25% import tax (to Denmark) still makes it
cheaper buying from US. If the difference (in total) is not big, I go
for an european on-line shop. Else I buy from US.

import taxes when you buy something from Germany to Denmark? Isn't
Denmark in EU? You shouldn't be paying any import duty unless there
is some retarded politician working as a lobbyist for local photo
gear dealers. I didn't pay any import duty when I bought my PDA from
Germany.

I think import taxes belong to buying in US part of the comment, not to Germany. From Germany should only be shipment costs, VAT is paid in Germany.

 

[Effzeeone]

Actually, it just further clouds the debate.

If you had health insurance in the USA, you would not pay anywhere near that amount for your hearing aid.

You cannot combine the circumstances of the two difference systems in order to compare them. A better comparison would be for you to add up the total you paid in taxes for your socialized medicine, and then add that to the cheaper price of the hearing aid. Now add the total you would pay in health insurance and likely the $30 co-pay you would pay for you hearing aid under an insurance plan, and you'll find that you are probably money ahead in the USA, especially when you also calculate in the rather high cost of general living in Europe as compared to the USA, which would be difficult to argue considering the numerous examples cited in this thread.

--

Chris

 

[olyflyer]

So... Yes please... A few addresses in Malmø and Lund.

In Malmö:

Japan Photo
Södra Förstadsgatan 5
Phone: +46 40 661 11 40
http://www.japanphoto.se

In Lund:

Mattsons Foto & Video
Klostergatan 3
Phone: +46 46 211 12 04
http://www.matssonsfoto.se

B.A. Foto
Klostergatan 5
Phone: +46 46 12 40 35
http://www.bafoto.nu

Stocks Olympus but not everything. If you are looking for any specific stuff they may have it on stock, but better phone first. Of the three, Japan Photo has the best prices, Mattssons has the best service and can order things for you to have a look at. Personally, I buy most of my stuff from a very small shop near me. The guy does not stock Olympus any more, and only gets what I want when I want something, because I have done my shopping there for about 20 years now. Whenever he can not get what I need for a price I am ready to pay (not necessarly always the cheapest), I go to one of the other three, mostly to Mattssons.

You can also check http://www.dustinhome.se but they may require a Swedish address.

There is also http://www.netonnet.se which also has a warehouse outlet in Malmö where you can collect everything you buy and even pay for directly, picking directly from the warehouse.

Scandinavian Photo is something you already know of, but there is also http://www.cyberphoto.se which I like more.

 

[blurred]

, especially when you also

calculate in the rather high cost of general living in Europe as
compared to the USA, which would be difficult to argue considering
the numerous examples cited in this thread.

Excuse me but most of the examples are ridiculously flawed. If someone reads this thread he will think that either Europeans live in poverty or are earning lavish wages. The only thing I notice in this discussion is that the American lifestyle is going to be extremely expensive in any hot tourist area of Europe. I do not have the time to point out each and every one of the exaggerated examples stated here, but I can assure you that most of the Europeans get by as well as the most Americans do in the U.S.

Now, can anybody point me to the best and cheapest way of getting the lowest price on ZD 14-54 here in the UK, or shall I just get it through friends in the U.S. in Xmas?

 

[Jørgen Christensen]

I am glad you took the time to write this down!

Now one more day in my upcoming vacation has been occupied. We go to Sweden for shopping... My wife and daughter will go in one direction LOOKING at clothes... and me and my son in the other direction buying (hehe) photo gear etc.

Thanks again
Jørgen
http://www.pbase.com/jchriste

 

[David Hughes124436]

Thanks, I was shocked (no other word) by the minimum wage and, knowing how this wicked world works, I wonder if that is the truth of the matter...

Regards, David

 

[DrugaRunda]

well I think it boils down to this: In US you get cheaper cost of living, but certain aspects are A LOT more difficult if you are on the bottom end of the earning scales... that is in the bottom 15-20% of the population.

While in Europe you cannot get so easily filthy rich as you can in US with a good idea and some business sense...

My problem with prices being higher in Europe is that it doesn't only have to do with higher taxes, but with manufacturers charging more in many areas just because they see they can (CS3 prime example)... that is what ticks me off, while you can often help it with internet buying to get close to the expected prices (US price + VAT and some taxes, but you get it here), it is often wayyy to high just because they can charge more and people will still buy...

However most of the middle class lives pretty well on both sides, and yes for us buying cameras, cars, etc takes more of our discretionary £ € away but when last week my daughter was diagnosed with diabetes I got to get all the tests the same day, in contact with the local "NHS sponsored" child diabetes team, weekly clinic, and excellent (around here considered "standard") care without worrying whether I underpaid my insurance, or that my insurance/healthcare bills will skyrocket over the coming years etc...

Not saying that NHS is "the thing", in my opinion it is far from what it could be given the billions of £ spent, and many other european countries (+at least Japan) do it better with the similar levels of access and same or better care level. (NHS is however the best for access I think in the world, but elsewhere such level of access would be considered a waste).

In any case I am one of the glad people that this is the system here, and that we can get lifelong support from the "common pool" where we all put the £££ in the pot and the ones less lucky draw it out when needed.

Not saying that you would get sub standard care in US in my position (middle class), and if I took care of my insurance premiums on time etc... but you most definitely would if you were in the bottom 15-20%, and even for the middle class it would very likely be much more expensive in the long term.

I never knew that I will personally benefit from such system that much, but I was both before and certainly even more now, grateful that UK started with NHS 50 years ago, and that they keep on investing in the service. People end up appreciating those "common good" ideas when we end up needing them.

On the other hand if the service levels were very poor, like they are in some other areas of care, if you have plenty of £££ you can still do it on your own... who has money has no problems anywhere, at least on the account of getting the best service possible, it is the rest of us which are the vast majority of the population who really benefit from such schemes... but end up paying more for cameras, and I am OK with that... in the end can always import cameras from Hong Kong if I feel the saving is worth it

--
common sense is anything but common

 

[olyflyer]

I am glad you took the time to write this down!

Now one more day in my upcoming vacation has been occupied. We go to
Sweden for shopping... My wife and daughter will go in one direction
LOOKING at clothes... and me and my son in the other direction buying
(hehe) photo gear etc.

Thanks again
Jørgen
http://www.pbase.com/jchriste

You are welcome. But as I said, if you are looking for anything specific, it is better to call. Don't worry, Danish is understood well by most, here in the southern part of Sweden, otherwise you can always use English.

 

[eelco88]

I've read in several news papers that they even want 12,5% import tax on P&s with movie mode in the EU.
So all photographers have to strike.

 

[Effzeeone]

The only thing I notice in this
discussion is that the American lifestyle is going to be extremely
expensive in any hot tourist area of Europe.

Is it an "American lifestyle" to just want to feed my family of six for under $100 a meal at a local European restaurant that's at least somewhat off the beaten tourist path? Again, I live in very much a tourist city in Florida (USA), so I'm comparing tourist city with tourist city. When you consider taxes, food prices, clothing prices, and transportation prices, whether you care to admit it or not, Europeans are paying significantly more than we are. That doesn't mean Europeans are stupid or that America is the greatest. It just means what it means -- you're paying more, which is all that I've said all along. Many of your fellow Europeans confirmed that, which was somewhat of a shock to me because I was hoping that I was facing tourist fleecing. Apparently not.

I do not have the time
to point out each and every one of the exaggerated examples stated
here, but I can assure you that most of the Europeans get by as well
as the most Americans do in the U.S.

Now, can anybody point me to the best and cheapest way of getting the
lowest price on ZD 14-54 here in the UK, or shall I just get it
through friends in the U.S. in Xmas?

Why would you consider buying the ZD 14-54 in the USA, when you claim the prices aren't that different between Europe and America?

--

Chris