Give Canon a chance...

[Cade]

before you get too excited about the new Pentax K10D, or anything from Nikon or Sony, or Fuji or Sigma. While WE might not know what's up the sleeve of any camera maker, you can bet Canon is either somewhat aware of what's going on behind the competitor's closed doors, or they can surely guess it.

Easy to guess....what does the community want in a new camera? What WOULD they want? What SHOULD they want. Doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure it out. So you just do it yourself. I don't see Canon as a bunch of complacent fools...do you?

The 400D/XTi didn't happen overnight...yet the announcement and more importantly release to dealers happened pretty fast after the Nikon was announced and the Sony announced and shipped. There had to be some lead time in getting it to market. I would guess something like 6 months at least.

Most important thing they could do? For the "give me more mp's" masses...go to at least 10 mp. For the "serious" photographers? Reduce noise. Not just noise that shows up at high iso's, but ALL noise. Just because you don't easily see much at 100 iso, doesn't mean it's not there and robbing you of micro-detail in the photo. 8 mp is plenty of resolution (but staying there would hurt sales to the unknowing), but pictures would get ALOT better if there was absolutely no noise, NO NOISE, at any iso. Add to that better dynamic range in a well-exposed photo and you get ALOT better picture. When you look through the viewfinder and see the photograph you want to take, do you get the same image you observed when you look at the picture you take? If you moved close to the image with your camera and only saw a small piece of your final image through the viewfinder, would a magnification of your final picture, giving you the same close-up look you got when you moved the camera, be anywhere close to what you saw through that viewfinder? No. And the reason is not all that much related to resolution. It is noise. Better processing equals less noise.

I sell Fujitsu plasmas and they absolutely DESTROY your average competitor. More resolution? The same as everyone else. Better contrast? No...probably less than most of the average spread. More brightness? You don't want that in any TV...a bright TV is like a bright sunny day...get out the sunglasses. The reason is NO NOISE. They are unreal at eliminating noise from the picture. So they look WAY MORE 3D-like. Minor detail is amazing. Out of camera focus things in the near-distance look far better focused. Detail in vegitation is hard to believe.

Because there is far, far, far less noise in the image they present.

Give us NO NOISE, Canon...and all the other things some ppl think they need and you will RULE...at least with those of us who want the best pictures we can get. To be honest, at least to me, all those other things are beside the point, if I get an image that looks like I shot it through a sand box.

http://www.pbase.com/reflectedlight
http://www.reflected-light.smugmug.com

 

[Kokopelli_Rocks]

While I am not planning on selling my Canon gear I am looking at possible adding the Pentax as my second body since my 10D is dying. I am really tired of Canon sitting around and delivering second rate features just because they have market share. This is what IBM did in the PC world and we see where they are today.

I lost a lot of faith in Canon with the 30D, I still can't believe people fork over $1,300 to get this "upgrade". I just find it sad that a company that once was innovative and pushed the pricing envelope has become decided to sit back and watch others push new an innovative features. There is nothing earth shattering or all that innovative except the price, but many of the features have been requested from Canon for several years.

Personally I will give Canon until PMA to see what they do, I am pretty sure we will not see anything new from Canon in the sub $2K market from Canon until PMA. If Canon was going to release another lower model DSLR they would have announced it a few weeks ago.

Just hope we start seeing something innovative soon. The only thing I have seen really new from Canon in the DSLR world in the past 18 months is learning how to put a bigger LCD on the back of their camera.

Ed

 

[jackkurtz]

I think we could very well see a 30D replacement before the holidays. All the biggies except Canon now have 10MP and dust removal of some type in their mid range bodies. Canon is going to have to match, and hopefully exceed, that.

jack
--
A few of my photos:
http://web.mac.com/kurtzjack/iWeb/ or
http://www.sportsshooter.com/members.html?id=4177

 

[jurek]

and waited for the longest time for them to introduce a DSLR to work with my collection of Maxxum lenses. Waited and waited, finally give up on these losers and switched to Canon. I thought: "Once with Canon I will never have to worry about having to switch!" Now I am looking at K10 and thinking: "is it time to switch again?" I mean, I should be able to get at least 25 cents on the dollar for my Canon glass, right?

Canon's next upgrade to 30D will help me decide, and it better come soon!

 

[n1x0n]

jurek wrote:
"is it time to switch again?"

Did your Canon gear stopped working?! What happened?

Or maybe you believe that 2MP more, or the antishake will make your pictures better?

I think you're just the kind of guy who is much more into owning equipment, than into taking pictures. You're doomed to switch systems forever!

 

[brianric]

Some of us had no problem buying the 30D. Some of us don't go around buy the latest and greatest due to some preceived want for a new gimmick. Some of us have an investment in a system, which includes fine Canon glass, and have no intention of leaving Canon. Go back into your hole troll.

While I am not planning on selling my Canon gear I am looking at
possible adding the Pentax as my second body since my 10D is dying.
I am really tired of Canon sitting around and delivering second
rate features just because they have market share. This is what IBM
did in the PC world and we see where they are today.

I lost a lot of faith in Canon with the 30D, I still can't believe
people fork over $1,300 to get this "upgrade". I just find it sad
that a company that once was innovative and pushed the pricing
envelope has become decided to sit back and watch others push new
an innovative features. There is nothing earth shattering or all
that innovative except the price, but many of the features have
been requested from Canon for several years.

Personally I will give Canon until PMA to see what they do, I am
pretty sure we will not see anything new from Canon in the sub $2K
market from Canon until PMA. If Canon was going to release another
lower model DSLR they would have announced it a few weeks ago.

Just hope we start seeing something innovative soon. The only thing
I have seen really new from Canon in the DSLR world in the past 18
months is learning how to put a bigger LCD on the back of their
camera.

Ed

 

[T3]

The Pentax's slow flash sync is a deal killer. It has a flash sync of only 1/180, and as far as I know, Pentax's flash system does not have high speed sync flash, which is pretty important for daylight fill flash in conditions often requiring shutter speeds faster than 1/250 due to the bright outdoor light. I don't think Pentax's flash system has any wireless flash capabilities, either, although I think wireless flash isn't as important as high speed sync flash for daylight fill.

As for Canon's answer to the K10D, I doubt they have any desire to lose business to Pentax, so they will obviously want to answer with something very competitive. But I wouldn't expect it until PMA 2007. Pentax has shown its cards, and now it's Canon's turn to answer them.

and waited for the longest time for them to introduce a DSLR to
work with my collection of Maxxum lenses. Waited and waited,
finally give up on these losers and switched to Canon. I thought:
"Once with Canon I will never have to worry about having to
switch!" Now I am looking at K10 and thinking: "is it time to
switch again?" I mean, I should be able to get at least 25 cents on
the dollar for my Canon glass, right?

Canon's next upgrade to 30D will help me decide, and it better come
soon!

 

[Nathan Yan]

It's a bit frustrating with the camera market. As someone who's just jumping in (have a little bit of Canon gear, but I'm oh so tempted by the D80 and possibly K10D - although the Pentax doesn't exactly "look" like a full-manual SLR (where are all the controls?)). On one hand, there are a ton of competitors who seem innovative - I think the list goes Pentax, Sony, Nikon, and Canon at the moment, with Canon being WAY behind everyone else.

But like others have said, you're investing more into the system than any individual body. I'd find it very hard to go outside of either Canon or Nikon, simply because the lens selection and availability isn't there. The other question besides lens is the long term - personally, I don't know how invested Sony will get into the camera business - it takes good R&D to produce lenses and bodies, and perhaps they'll just keep building off of Konica-Minolta stuff? Pentax just doesn't seem to have nearly the capital that Nikon and Canon has. Something tells me that someday (in a few years maybe), someone's going to come up with something that's going to revolutionize sensor technology, much more than improved pixel density here or SnR there - and at the present time I'd have to bet that it'll be Canon - they've got the biggest muscle from leading in sales, and they're actually manufacturing their own chips, unlike Nikon (and others?) who are focusing on their bodies and lenses and leaving the sensor for Sony to handle.

 

[brianric]

High speed sync is not going to help you for daylight fill. Power output of the flash goes down as you increase shutter speed. From the 550 EX manual, 50 mm lens, normal flash guide number in meters is 42 (138.6 in feet). Go to 1/2000 sec guide number is 7.4 meters (24.42 in feet). Give me a higher normal sync speed.

As for Canon's answer to the K10D, I doubt they have any desire to
lose business to Pentax, so they will obviously want to answer with
something very competitive. But I wouldn't expect it until PMA
2007. Pentax has shown its cards, and now it's Canon's turn to
answer them.

and waited for the longest time for them to introduce a DSLR to
work with my collection of Maxxum lenses. Waited and waited,
finally give up on these losers and switched to Canon. I thought:
"Once with Canon I will never have to worry about having to
switch!" Now I am looking at K10 and thinking: "is it time to
switch again?" I mean, I should be able to get at least 25 cents on
the dollar for my Canon glass, right?

Canon's next upgrade to 30D will help me decide, and it better come
soon!

 

[thw]

-------------------------------------------
See the colors of my world in:
thw.smugmug.com

 

[John down under]

Brian, I guess you know that using HS flash is pretty common for daylight fill. However, as you say, the range is fairly limited. I agree with you that a higher speed normal sync would sure be handy, but I'd say any increase would be fairly modest with current flashgun technology. Any modest speed increase would not be enough to give much more flexibility for higher shutter speeds. If you want to shoot in daylight but not stop down a lot, then you're limited to higher shutter speeds that only HS flash sync will handle.

As for Canon's answer to the K10D, I doubt they have any desire to
lose business to Pentax, so they will obviously want to answer with
something very competitive. But I wouldn't expect it until PMA
2007. Pentax has shown its cards, and now it's Canon's turn to
answer them.

and waited for the longest time for them to introduce a DSLR to
work with my collection of Maxxum lenses. Waited and waited,
finally give up on these losers and switched to Canon. I thought:
"Once with Canon I will never have to worry about having to
switch!" Now I am looking at K10 and thinking: "is it time to
switch again?" I mean, I should be able to get at least 25 cents on
the dollar for my Canon glass, right?

Canon's next upgrade to 30D will help me decide, and it better come
soon!

--
Cheers from John from Adelaide, South Australia
John Harvey Photography http://johnharvey.com.au
Canon 20D & Fuji F10

 

[brianric]

Most of my fill flash are in the range of 20 to 30 feet. Hi speed sync is useless in my case. A more powerful flash is my only option.

Brian, I guess you know that using HS flash is pretty common for
daylight fill. However, as you say, the range is fairly limited. I
agree with you that a higher speed normal sync would sure be handy,
but I'd say any increase would be fairly modest with current
flashgun technology. Any modest speed increase would not be enough
to give much more flexibility for higher shutter speeds. If you
want to shoot in daylight but not stop down a lot, then you're
limited to higher shutter speeds that only HS flash sync will
handle.

 

[John down under]

I switched to Canon from KM about 10 months ago to get a system solution that would work for me and continue to work into the future. So far so good, although I would like to see some more changes come along with the bodies, just like many other people. I just don't think that until relatively recently there's been enough pressure from competitors to require Canon to do much more to achieve its business aims. The new cameras coming out from Canon's competitors are a good thing for Canon customers as well as Canon will have to make changes to remain as competitive as it wants to be.

--
Cheers from John from Adelaide, South Australia
John Harvey Photography http://johnharvey.com.au
Canon 20D & Fuji F10

 

[John down under]

--
Cheers from John from Adelaide, South Australia
John Harvey Photography http://johnharvey.com.au
Canon 20D & Fuji F10

 

[Leon Wittwer]

Are you interested in getting good images or having a lot of features? Canons, in general, have the best sensors and some other things and provide very good images. Canon, of course, is banking on this and will not push "features" until the market pushes them in that direction. Canon's large line of cameras that provide good upgrade paths and line of good lenses and other accessories also factors into their strong market position.

Other brands who don't compete as well on over all image quality (particularly in lower light) or versatility in their overall system have to compete by offering more features. You have to decide just what you want. IMHO, too may folks are getting caught up in the "Who has more features?" than ultimately on which system will provide them better images.

While I am not planning on selling my Canon gear I am looking at
possible adding the Pentax as my second body since my 10D is dying.
I am really tired of Canon sitting around and delivering second
rate features just because they have market share. This is what IBM
did in the PC world and we see where they are today.

--
Leon
http://homepage.mac.com/leonwittwer/landscapes.htm

 

[Kokopelli_Rocks]

Lets see - I have owned Canon cameras for over 25 years and now I am a troll for posting a negative message about Canon's boring and poor upgrades. I guess if the honest truth about Canon's serious lack of innovation is that hard for you to hear about then maybe you should stay off line.

I would love to See Canon be innovative and push the market like the use to just 18 months ago. I too have a serious investment in Canon and it will be sad to have to move on from Canon. But I find some of the features of the new Pentax and Nikon DSLRs very nice. They don't deliberately hold back features from their lower end cameras to protect their higher end sales. Sadly this seems to be the main driving force in Canon product design.

Call me a troll if you like, but it is just but many others here feel the same way I do and are seriously questioning their future with Canon. If a company with the small resources of Pentax can release a camera with the feature set of the K10 for under a $1K it makes you wonder what Canon could do if they really put their efforts into the market.

Like I said I will give Canon until PMA, winter is fast approaching so I don't see any reason to buy new equipment right now. I will see what Canon can come up with, but it they don't put out more than just an Elan based body in their sub $2K market then I will will probably start looking elsewhere.

I guess you can keep going around and calling all of us long time Canon users who are very disappointed in Canon, trolls, but this won't keep me from being honest in how I feel. My responses are honest responses to the OPs original message. Nothing would please me more than to see Canon come out with a world class, category leading sub $2K body. Canon has the resources and technology to create the best camera on the market, but why they don't just seems a mystery to me.

Ed

 

[Kokopelli_Rocks]

Leon,

I keep hearing everywhere that Canon has the best image quality, and I am happy with the quality I get, but many others are equally happy with what their DSLRs produce. Other than low light - and looking at the first 400D samples Canon seems to be losing this advantage - I see great images from all DSLRs. I don't believe Canon has an exclusive on image quality, I don't see any DSLR that is currently on the market that takes images that I would not be happy with the results. As stated I would probably keep my Canon just for low light needs.

But I do want a more pro level body, better viewfinder, weather resistance, bigger buffer, better AF, a true spot meter, maybe even a dust system although this is not a critical. These features and more are found on several competing cameras. I have seen posts on this forum for over 4 years asking for all of these features but Canon does not seem to feel any of these features are needed on sub $2K bodies. Since Canon seems to be telling me they don't think these are important, then like any good consumer I will find a supplier who will deliver on what I want.

Ed

While I am not planning on selling my Canon gear I am looking at
possible adding the Pentax as my second body since my 10D is dying.
I am really tired of Canon sitting around and delivering second
rate features just because they have market share. This is what IBM
did in the PC world and we see where they are today.

--
Leon
http://homepage.mac.com/leonwittwer/landscapes.htm

 

[T3]

High speed sync is not going to help you for daylight fill.

It's not going to help me? According you whom? Sorry, but high speed sync flash is very helpful for daylight fill flash for many of us. And it does exactly as it is meant to do: allow you to fill in dark shadows on bright sunny days even when you are using a shutter speed that exceeds the camera's x-sync. It is helpful for daylight fill flash. And if you don't believe in fill flash, it's quite easy to shoot a shot with and without (especially for portraits), but pretty much every time the fill flash shot will look nicer. Obviously if you are shooting flash from longer distances, it won't be as effective. But to use that as a basis for stating that high speed sync flash is not going to help me (or anyone) for daylight fill flash is very myopic.

Here's a typical example of daylight fill flash performed with high speed sync flash. Straight out of camera, no adjustments, just resized for web with exposure data watermarked on. Yes, "high speed sync is not going to help you for daylight fill."

 

[brianric]

And you are shooting 5 feet away. Read my post again. I typically shoot 20 to 30 feet away, and hi speed sync is useless. I do use fill flash, -1 to -2 FEC.

High speed sync is not going to help you for daylight fill.

It's not going to help me? According you whom? Sorry, but high
speed sync flash is very helpful for daylight fill flash for many
of us. And it does exactly as it is meant to do: allow you to fill
in dark shadows on bright sunny days even when you are using a
shutter speed that exceeds the camera's x-sync. It is helpful
for daylight fill flash. And if you don't believe in fill flash,
it's quite easy to shoot a shot with and without (especially for
portraits), but pretty much every time the fill flash shot will
look nicer. Obviously if you are shooting flash from longer
distances, it won't be as effective. But to use that as a basis
for stating that high speed sync flash is not going to help me (or
anyone) for daylight fill flash is very myopic.

Here's a typical example of daylight fill flash performed with high
speed sync flash. Straight out of camera, no adjustments, just
resized for web with exposure data watermarked on. Yes, "high
speed sync is not going to help you for daylight fill."

 

[The Davinator]

Some of us had no problem buying the 30D. Some of us don't go
around buy the latest and greatest due to some preceived want for a
new gimmick. Some of us have an investment in a system, which
includes fine Canon glass, and have no intention of leaving Canon.
Go back into your hole troll.

Troll???

Let's see. What 10mp offering does Canon have right now? None. The new Pentax offers images stablization, environmental seals, higher rez, in what appears to be a decent body. Canon gave us another Rebel body of what appears to be lower quality.

Considering Pentax does not make him a troll. Your labelling him as such does make you ignorant though.

While I am not planning on selling my Canon gear I am looking at
possible adding the Pentax as my second body since my 10D is dying.
I am really tired of Canon sitting around and delivering second
rate features just because they have market share. This is what IBM
did in the PC world and we see where they are today.

I lost a lot of faith in Canon with the 30D, I still can't believe
people fork over $1,300 to get this "upgrade". I just find it sad
that a company that once was innovative and pushed the pricing
envelope has become decided to sit back and watch others push new
an innovative features. There is nothing earth shattering or all
that innovative except the price, but many of the features have
been requested from Canon for several years.

Personally I will give Canon until PMA to see what they do, I am
pretty sure we will not see anything new from Canon in the sub $2K
market from Canon until PMA. If Canon was going to release another
lower model DSLR they would have announced it a few weeks ago.

Just hope we start seeing something innovative soon. The only thing
I have seen really new from Canon in the DSLR world in the past 18
months is learning how to put a bigger LCD on the back of their
camera.

Ed