Coolpix 5000 - Your thoughts

[Igor R.]

Well if it's Nikon fans then they probably hate whatever else is
out there.

Not really, I'm a Nikon fan, but I've made a few shoots with Canon Elan camera for my friend!

I'm using Nikon N70 film SLR, and I can say that Nikon SLRs are better than Canon ones! It is easier to use and Canon SLRs are not comfortable to hold in hand.

There seems to be an awful lot of interest in this cam, based on
that the 5000 will probably the best ever seller for Nikon. It
seems that as Nikon have switched to 5+ mps Dcs ( D1X , 5000)
compared to say Canon who have switched to 4+mps ( 1D, G2), on the
pixel front Nikon are still one step ahead of everyone. It all
depends want people want to do, with Nikon you get probably the
best picture taking device for its price range

Minolta produced 5M dimage 7 camera few month ago, but its dynamic range really sux!

by quite a margin. The only issue is the 85mm at f4.8, but since we
can see what we are taking and there is still BSS and DOF is not
really an issue with such small sensors, I don't think it will
concern anyone intersted in buying it. No other cam gives you the
option of high quality 18mm-24mm shots, so there's no real argument.

The best cameras are SLR ones, I'm using SLR cameras all my life and we must accept, that non SLR digital camera is for amateurs, and it doesn't matter, how good is it. I'll swich to the digital SLR a.s.a. its price will fall down to the acceptable for me. Cuz buy Kodak DSC 760 for $7,000 to make photos of my family and friends it too much for me.

 

[AntoineB #56670]

I know, it's hard to believe but depth of field on these
small lenses is misleading! Here are some
serious explanations.
AntoineB

http://www.wrotniak.net/photo/dof/

http://www.cs.mtu.edu/~shene/DigiCam/User-Guide/990/EXPOSURE/EV-depth-of-field.html
http://www.geocities.com/hapm/dof.html

AntoineB. wrote:
... as far as DOF, f/2.8 on a non SLR digicam is equal to
an f/11 or f/16 in 35mm equivalents...

what are you talking about?! f/numbers are f/numbers - digital or
not, SLR or not!

 

[Peter iNova56624]

Brian wrote:
In general, what do you think about the soon-to-be-released CP5000.
For some reason I have seen some negative comments from Nikon fans.

OK, so we've been talking about this Nikon 5k for awhile now. Its
only a few days until November - (release date given in the nikon
website). So, where is the thing? We gotta be seeing real photos,
reviews, etc. sometime soon, no?

They always seem to deliver these things on the last possible day. November 35th?

-iNova

 

[Michael Oersigh]

Well if it's Nikon fans then they probably hate whatever else is
out there.

Not really, I'm a Nikon fan, but I've made a few shoots with Canon
Elan camera for my friend!
I'm using Nikon N70 film SLR, and I can say that Nikon SLRs are
better than Canon ones! It is easier to use and Canon SLRs are not
comfortable to hold in hand.

There seems to be an awful lot of interest in this cam, based on
that the 5000 will probably the best ever seller for Nikon. It
seems that as Nikon have switched to 5+ mps Dcs ( D1X , 5000)
compared to say Canon who have switched to 4+mps ( 1D, G2), on the
pixel front Nikon are still one step ahead of everyone. It all
depends want people want to do, with Nikon you get probably the
best picture taking device for its price range

Minolta produced 5M dimage 7 camera few month ago, but its dynamic
range really sux!

by quite a margin. The only issue is the 85mm at f4.8, but since we
can see what we are taking and there is still BSS and DOF is not
really an issue with such small sensors, I don't think it will
concern anyone intersted in buying it. No other cam gives you the
option of high quality 18mm-24mm shots, so there's no real argument.

The best cameras are SLR ones, I'm using SLR cameras all my life
and we must accept, that non SLR digital camera is for amateurs,
and it doesn't matter, how good is it. I'll swich to the digital
SLR a.s.a. its price will fall down to the acceptable for me. Cuz
buy Kodak DSC 760 for $7,000 to make photos of my family and
friends it too much for me.

Thank you for that input Igor though I was really talking in a market context.

Michael

 

[ooooooo]

thank you Antoine! that was very interesting reading - i guess i should go for a digitalcamera w 5x or 6x zoom and largest possible F/no to create equivallent shallow DOF as a 24x36-camera w approx 85mm lens.

thanks for enlightening me!

regards,

Nik

AntoineB. wrote:
I know, it's hard to believe but depth of field on these
small lenses is misleading! Here are some
serious explanations.
AntoineB

http://www.wrotniak.net/photo/dof/

http://www.cs.mtu.edu/~shene/DigiCam/User-Guide/990/EXPOSURE/EV-depth-of-field.html
http://www.geocities.com/hapm/dof.html

 

[steve1]

OK, so we've been talking about this Nikon 5k for awhile now. Its
only a few days until November - (release date given in the nikon
website). So, where is the thing? We gotta be seeing real photos,
reviews, etc. sometime soon, no?

They always seem to deliver these things on the last possible day.
November 35th?

-iNova

35th or 40th? I just hope thats not the camera rating... heh heh....

well, one can only hope that the darn thing is razor sharp, low noise, and bitchen picture quality to make up for losing the truly cool swivel.

I hate the idea of being a guinea pig for a 1100 dollar digital camera. But then again, what if this one is finally really great?! It is a bit risky, but whaddaya gonna do, when you've grown to hate the smell of fixer in the morning?

When I bought my F3 in 1980-something, it cost 699. I think its still worth much of that. The times they are a changing. I guess if i have to buy another camera in 9 months, then I'll be helping the econonmy, or what?

-Steve

 

[Peter Siciliano]

In general, what do you think about the soon-to-be-released CP5000.
For some reason I have seen some negative comments from Nikon fans.

Brian

I was really disappointed when I heard that Nikon had yet again omitted RAW capture capabilities from their newest CoolPix.

The new lens that they are using seems awfully slow for the shorter zoom range that it covers. I recently owned a Nikon CoolPix 880 and can tell you that I had a hell of a time when it came to taking indoor photos in less-than-ideal lighting.

I wonder what those folks at Nikon are thinking? It seems that while most other digicam manufacturers are giving their consumers more and more, Nikon is giving their consumers less and more at the same time.

Furthermore, I was recently at a local digital photography trade show and was floored when the Nikon representative told me that the CP5000 would retail for roughly $1799CDN. Heck, a couple of hundred dollars more and I could buy an Olympus E-10!

Oh well...

PGS

 

[David SL]

In general, what do you think about the soon-to-be-released CP5000.
For some reason I have seen some negative comments from Nikon fans.

Brian

On Reduced Noise:

There is a very good chance, that the noise levels on shots for this camera will be remarkably low. Nikon would be a fool to leave out the knowledge learned and applied to the DXX series cameras to their prosumer line. Better algorithms and a larger CCD will make noise levels lower than the existing flagship 995 strictly on a theoretical basis. (which is pretty darn good as far as noise, even when compared to newer cameras.) Advanced algorithms and increased CCD sensitivity should provide even better results. As a bonus, the increased bit size will ensure a larger dynamic range that will provide even subtler gradings in contrast and color, hopefully approaching the awesome performance of the D1X cameras. (Nikon ..how about an AdobeRGB color space selection next time?)

On Reduced aperture range:

I think the restricted aperture ( about half the Fstops at telephoto than the 990) is not that big an issue, you must keep in mind that so long as the sensor registers the correct scene light quickly, the aperture doesn't matter. Sure there will be an inverse relationship between aperture and shutter speed as always, but if your sensitivity is up...you can still properly expose the scene with a larger aperture and not a much increased exposure time. In comparison to the 990,[990: 2.5 - 7(wide) and 4 - 11 (tele)] [5000:2.8 - 8(wide) and 4.5 - 7.6(tele), most of the loss comes toward the telephoto end. I will take a guess and say, that the sensitivity of the ccd in the 5000 ( as a consequence of its larger size) will be increased enough to preclude lengthy exposure times just to get descent indoor shots. It's very possible that Nikon pushed the sensitivity range in this camera so that they fall within the aperture range for "standard" shooting situations. Where "standard" is whatever Nikon believes the range of light levels that most will want to shoot in, without having to set insanely long exposure times to do so. Another hint at this possibility, is the inclusion of the ISO 800 rating, I think they have succeeded in reducing noise enough in this new camera to have its ISO 200 look as good as (if not better) than ISO 100 in the latest crop of digicams. A good example, is their success in the D1X and D1H cameras recently released as far as reduced noise, and high ISO are concerned.

We'll find out if my guess is on the mark in a few short weeks.

On extending lens:

I hatedthe idea of it at first, but in order to go to the swivelling LCD and the thinner depth profile of the camera, the formerly encased lens system was made to extend. The only real difference from the 99x cameras is that you can see it happen. I did worry about the start time for the extension with my first DC the Kodak DC260 several years ago but hopefully the 5000 will be quicker to get ready for a shot.

On the hotshoe:

Finally ! Now I can use my sb28 flash without a versatek bracket!

On the swivelling LCD:

The versatility of the swivel body is still there and now with a few more possibilities. The construction is probably less prone to mechanical issues and is probably cheaper to make, sounds like a good idea to me.

On the accesories:

I love the fact that most of my 990 accesories will work with this camera, my 2x teleconverter and filters will see time on my Cp 990 and (if I decide to buy it) the 5000.

On Tripod Mount:

Rubberized but still off center! Darn it do the engineers even read these online reviews? I guess we'll have to fake panorama shots or wait until someone comes out with a centering attachement for it.(which should be pretty easy having seen the level bottom of the camera.)

On RAW image format:

I guess they don't think us prosumers want to tweak or images, this should be pretty easy to include too....oh well, maybe they'll have it in the Nikon 5050 ??

On the video with sound:

Nice! but 15fps is anemic...I rarely use the video on my 990. So this isn't a big smile inducer for me.

All told, only the sensitivity, dynamic range and noise performance of this camera will make it a "buy" or a "leave it alone" for me. I have been checking this site every day, as I feel for sure Phil is finishing up his review of a production 5000.

Phil, hurry the suspense is killing us!

Dsl

 

[Peter G]

In general, what do you think about the soon-to-be-released CP5000.
For some reason I have seen some negative comments from Nikon fans.

Brian

On Reduced Noise:

There is a very good chance, that the noise levels on shots for
this camera will be remarkably low. Nikon would be a fool to leave
out the knowledge learned and applied to the DXX series cameras to
their prosumer line. Better algorithms and a larger CCD will make
noise levels lower than the existing flagship 995 strictly on a
theoretical basis. (which is pretty darn good as far as noise, even
when compared to newer cameras.) Advanced algorithms and increased
CCD sensitivity should provide even better results. As a bonus,
the increased bit size will ensure a larger dynamic range that will
provide even subtler gradings in contrast and color, hopefully
approaching the awesome performance of the D1X cameras. (Nikon
..how about an AdobeRGB color space selection next time?)

Actually the reason for the pro cameras is sensor element size and that hasn't changed, the Element size for the 995 sensor is actually LARGER than for the new 5MP sensor in the cp5000. So therortically the noise is worse than the 995. Expect about the same in practice. You are really kidding yourself if you are expecting pro type noise levels.

On Reduced aperture range:

I think the restricted aperture ( about half the Fstops at
telephoto than the 990) is not that big an issue, you must keep in
mind that so long as the sensor registers the correct scene light
quickly, the aperture doesn't matter. Sure there will be an inverse
relationship between aperture and shutter speed as always, but if
your sensitivity is up...you can still properly expose the scene
with a larger aperture and not a much increased exposure time. In
comparison to the 990,[990: 2.5 - 7(wide) and 4 - 11 (tele)]
[5000:2.8 - 8(wide) and 4.5 - 7.6(tele), most of the loss comes
toward the telephoto end. I will take a guess and say, that the
sensitivity of the ccd in the 5000 ( as a consequence of its larger
size) will be increased enough to preclude lengthy exposure times
just to get descent indoor shots. It's very possible that Nikon
pushed the sensitivity range in this camera so that they fall
within the aperture range for "standard" shooting situations. Where
"standard" is whatever Nikon believes the range of light levels
that most will want to shoot in, without having to set insanely
long exposure times to do so. Another hint at this possibility, is
the inclusion of the ISO 800 rating, I think they have succeeded in
reducing noise enough in this new camera to have its ISO 200 look
as good as (if not better) than ISO 100 in the latest crop of
digicams. A good example, is their success in the D1X and D1H
cameras recently released as far as reduced noise, and high ISO are
concerned.

Again this is faulty premise the 990/995 have bigger sensor elements than the cp5000. These consumer sensor are all relatively equal, and there is no excuse for the slow lens.

All told, only the sensitivity, dynamic range and noise performance
of this camera will make it a "buy" or a "leave it alone" for me. I
have been checking this site every day, as I feel for sure Phil is
finishing up his review of a production 5000.

Slow lens and high price already have it in "Leave it alone" category in my book.

Peter

 

[Escher]

David:

This is a completely fallacious argument. If the lens is twice as slow as the previous lens, and the sensor twice as sensitive, even with little noise, you'll be able to get the same pictures as before. But the whole point of getting a new camera is to see an improvement .

A fast lens, combined with improved sensitivity and noise reduction would make a great camera and a real improvement.

This reminds me of the arguments that the photo companies made when APS film came out. They said that APS would be just as good as 35mm film because APS film used better emulsions. Sure, film technology had gotten a lot better. But the improved emulsions made their way into 35mm film as well, keeping 35mm safely ahead in image quality.

I have no doubt that the CP 5000 will take great images. But with a faster lens, the improvement from previous cameras could have been so much more significant.

There's still much room for improvement in digital photography. This is just the beginning. Thank goodness this is just the beginning.

Regards,
Escher

I think the restricted aperture ( about half the Fstops at
telephoto than the 990) is not that big an issue, you must keep in
mind that so long as the sensor registers the correct scene light
quickly, the aperture doesn't matter.

 

[AVJsn]

So much like/dislike on the Nikon 5000 --- but look out for its strongest competitor --- Sony 707 !!?

In Sony forum, more people are talking about an "official" RECALL of the current 707 --- just beware if you want to buy 707 for the time being !!!

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1009&page=1&message=1695401

To me, both 5000 & 707 are good camera --- just depend on what features you "weigh" more !

I owned a 995 since July, and is still getting more and more happy with its picture quality and handling --- don't found any immediate need to upgrade to 5000 --- maybe Coolpix 5500/6000 to be released next year !

Jason.

In general, what do you think about the soon-to-be-released CP5000.
For some reason I have seen some negative comments from Nikon fans.

Brian

 

[David Saintloth]

In general, what do you think about the soon-to-be-released CP5000.
For some reason I have seen some negative comments from Nikon fans.

Brian

On Reduced Noise:

There is a very good chance, that the noise levels on shots for
this camera will be remarkably low. Nikon would be a fool to leave
out the knowledge learned and applied to the DXX series cameras to
their prosumer line. Better algorithms and a larger CCD will make
noise levels lower than the existing flagship 995 strictly on a
theoretical basis. (which is pretty darn good as far as noise, even
when compared to newer cameras.) Advanced algorithms and increased
CCD sensitivity should provide even better results. As a bonus,
the increased bit size will ensure a larger dynamic range that will
provide even subtler gradings in contrast and color, hopefully
approaching the awesome performance of the D1X cameras. (Nikon
..how about an AdobeRGB color space selection next time?)

Actually the reason for the pro cameras is sensor element size and
that hasn't changed, the Element size for the 995 sensor is
actually LARGER than for the new 5MP sensor in the cp5000. So
therortically the noise is worse than the 995. Expect about the
same in practice. You are really kidding yourself if you are
expecting pro type noise levels.

I am not expecting pro level noise performance, but the 5000 should have performance in between that of the 995 and the d1x. It would be foolish to presume that Nikon has not applied the knowledge learned in creating low noise, high ISO for high density CCD's in its D1x to the prosumer level cameras. I haven't calculated the relative photosite size between the 995 and the 5000, but even if the photosites are smaller, its only a matter of increasing the sensitivity of the CCD and making better image processing algorithms to achieve the same or better level of noise performance. The work load is simply shifted from reliance on image gathering ability on a CCD of good sensitivity to better image processing algorithms and an excellent sensitivity CCD. We have cameras in the prosumer level that already provide stellar noise reduced images ( sony 707 being the most glaring example) Dave Etchells over at IR says its right on the cusp of the D1x as far as noise is concerned. There is no reason why Nikon might not have found similar or better success with the sensitivity and noise problem for the 5000. We'll find if i am right, soon enough.

On Reduced aperture range:

I think the restricted aperture ( about half the Fstops at
telephoto than the 990) is not that big an issue, you must keep in
mind that so long as the sensor registers the correct scene light
quickly, the aperture doesn't matter. Sure there will be an inverse
relationship between aperture and shutter speed as always, but if
your sensitivity is up...you can still properly expose the scene
with a larger aperture and not a much increased exposure time. In
comparison to the 990,[990: 2.5 - 7(wide) and 4 - 11 (tele)]
[5000:2.8 - 8(wide) and 4.5 - 7.6(tele), most of the loss comes
toward the telephoto end. I will take a guess and say, that the
sensitivity of the ccd in the 5000 ( as a consequence of its larger
size) will be increased enough to preclude lengthy exposure times
just to get descent indoor shots. It's very possible that Nikon
pushed the sensitivity range in this camera so that they fall
within the aperture range for "standard" shooting situations. Where
"standard" is whatever Nikon believes the range of light levels
that most will want to shoot in, without having to set insanely
long exposure times to do so. Another hint at this possibility, is
the inclusion of the ISO 800 rating, I think they have succeeded in
reducing noise enough in this new camera to have its ISO 200 look
as good as (if not better) than ISO 100 in the latest crop of
digicams. A good example, is their success in the D1X and D1H
cameras recently released as far as reduced noise, and high ISO are
concerned.

Again this is faulty premise the 990/995 have bigger sensor
elements than the cp5000. These consumer sensor are all relatively
equal, and there is no excuse for the slow lens.

Again, size of photosites is not the only factor as is exeplified by the performance of the d1x and sony 707, image processing and ccd sensitivity are more important. As for the "slow lens" issue, if you know how to shoot with the camera and it has high ISO reduced noise capability that's actually useable, then the issue becomes moot. You can boost ISO, and shoot at useable speed while still getting clean images. Despite the reduced aperture range at telephoto. We'll know in a few short weeks if I am correct about this as it regards the 5000.

All told, only the sensitivity, dynamic range and noise performance
of this camera will make it a "buy" or a "leave it alone" for me. I
have been checking this site every day, as I feel for sure Phil is
finishing up his review of a production 5000.

Slow lens and high price already have it in "Leave it alone"
category in my book.

Peter

Aww shucks....Just found out that Phil still doesn't have a 5000, so I appear to be wrong about seeing a review of it this week.

 

[David Saintloth]

David:

This is a completely fallacious argument. If the lens is twice as
slow as the previous lens, and the sensor twice as sensitive, even
with little noise, you'll be able to get the same pictures as
before. But the whole point of getting a new camera is to see an
improvement .

Before you dismiss my theory,

The issue with the "slow lens" is not a linear problem to start, what we are talking about here is a reduction in the available light levels..mostly toward the telephoto end. This can be mitigated in two ways beyond just having a bigger photosite with greater light gathering capability, to increase CCD sensitivity and to reduce noise. With these qualities adjusted we can see an "improvement" over the previous camera. You would be able to shoot at highier ISO, which provides you with highier shutter speeds to shoot at, and still get noise reduced shots. This is my point. It would be more work on the sensitivity and image processing end, but it can be done. Nikon worked wonders on the image processing side in the D1x, there is no reason why this knowledge couldn't be applied to the 5000. Take into account the stellar noise performance of the prosumer Sony 707 as example, increased sensitivity and reduced noise (via improved image processing algorithms) can yield more than just parity with previous cameras, it can be better. We'll see if I am right about this as it regards the 5000 in a few short weeks.

DSL

A fast lens, combined with improved sensitivity and noise reduction
would make a great camera and a real improvement.

This reminds me of the arguments that the photo companies made when
APS film came out. They said that APS would be just as good as 35mm
film because APS film used better emulsions. Sure, film technology
had gotten a lot better. But the improved emulsions made their way
into 35mm film as well, keeping 35mm safely ahead in image quality.

I have no doubt that the CP 5000 will take great images. But with a
faster lens, the improvement from previous cameras could have been
so much more significant.

Improvement in what regard ? your ability to shoot at low ISO in low light situations ? That's the only area that a "slow lens" affects. I agree that your configuring the camera to get the best picture will be more work ( having to boost ISO to shoot a good image) but it will yield the same if not better results as far as noise is concerned, ( again, if low noise and high ISO are as good as I hope they will be.) to me that's all that matters.

There's still much room for improvement in digital photography.
This is just the beginning. Thank goodness this is just the
beginning.

Regards,
Escher

I think the restricted aperture ( about half the Fstops at
telephoto than the 990) is not that big an issue, you must keep in
mind that so long as the sensor registers the correct scene light
quickly, the aperture doesn't matter.

 

[Peter G]

I am not expecting pro level noise performance, but the 5000 should
have performance in between that of the 995 and the d1x. It would
be foolish to presume that Nikon has not applied the knowledge
learned in creating low noise, high ISO for high density CCD's in
its D1x to the prosumer level cameras. I haven't calculated the
relative photosite size between the 995 and the 5000, but even if
the photosites are smaller, its only a matter of increasing the
sensitivity of the CCD and making better image processing
algorithms to achieve the same or better level of noise
performance. The work load is simply shifted from reliance on
image gathering ability on a CCD of good sensitivity to better
image processing algorithms and an excellent sensitivity CCD. We

It is smaller and compensating with better software could also be done on the larger sensor sites as well. All else is essentially equal. Larger photosites yield better noise characteristics. Plain and simple.

have cameras in the prosumer level that already provide stellar
noise reduced images ( sony 707 being the most glaring example)
Dave Etchells over at IR says its right on the cusp of the D1x as
far as noise is concerned.

With all due respect to Dave. If he said that, he is wrong. 1: its not even close, even if you believe sony numbers. 2: Many in the Sony forum are currently complaining about Shadow noise. 3: Sony is clearly fudging their ISO numbers. Look at Phils 707 review the G2 vers 707 shot. The G2 is at ISO50 the 707 at ISO100 and they shoot EXACTLY the same exposure. Sony is exageratting the ISO rating by a full f-stop. Its not really 100-200-400, but instead its 50-100-200. These number are meaningless if they are not independently verified (which is not being done). The one thing the 707 does is apply a smoothing algorithm at "400iso", but it clearly to the detriment of detail. You could do the same thing PS.

There is no reason why Nikon might not
have found similar or better success with the sensitivity and noise
problem for the 5000. We'll find if i am right, soon enough.

Sure they could lie about the ISO ratings and let you think it will perform better, but that still doesn't allow you higher quality shots in low light.

Again, size of photosites is not the only factor as is exeplified
by the performance of the d1x and sony 707, image processing and
ccd sensitivity are more important. As for the "slow lens" issue,

The D1x still has sites that have 7 TIMES the area of the cp5000. I have already commented on the 707. While photosites are not the only factor, it is the only one that really bears comparison, since algorithmic improvents will be shared amongst all size sensors.

if you know how to shoot with the camera and it has high ISO
reduced noise capability that's actually useable, then the issue
becomes moot. You can boost ISO, and shoot at useable speed while
still getting clean images. Despite the reduced aperture range at
telephoto. We'll know in a few short weeks if I am correct about
this as it regards the 5000.

Big ifs and I think you are about to be dissapointed. The camera will make use of pixel averaging to get you a nice 1.3MP lower noise image though.

Peter

 

[David Saintloth]

I am not expecting pro level noise performance, but the 5000 should
have performance in between that of the 995 and the d1x. It would
be foolish to presume that Nikon has not applied the knowledge
learned in creating low noise, high ISO for high density CCD's in
its D1x to the prosumer level cameras. I haven't calculated the
relative photosite size between the 995 and the 5000, but even if
the photosites are smaller, its only a matter of increasing the
sensitivity of the CCD and making better image processing
algorithms to achieve the same or better level of noise
performance. The work load is simply shifted from reliance on
image gathering ability on a CCD of good sensitivity to better
image processing algorithms and an excellent sensitivity CCD. We

It is smaller and compensating with better software could also be
done on the larger sensor sites as well. All else is essentially
equal. Larger photosites yield better noise characteristics. Plain
and simple.

I never said otherwise.

have cameras in the prosumer level that already provide stellar
noise reduced images ( sony 707 being the most glaring example)
Dave Etchells over at IR says its right on the cusp of the D1x as
far as noise is concerned.

With all due respect to Dave. If he said that, he is wrong. 1: its
not even close, even if you believe sony numbers. 2: Many in the
Sony forum are currently complaining about Shadow noise. 3: Sony is
clearly fudging their ISO numbers. Look at Phils 707 review the G2
vers 707 shot. The G2 is at ISO50 the 707 at ISO100 and they shoot
EXACTLY the same exposure. Sony is exageratting the ISO rating by a
full f-stop. Its not really 100-200-400, but instead its
50-100-200. These number are meaningless if they are not
independently verified (which is not being done). The one thing the
707 does is apply a smoothing algorithm at "400iso", but it clearly
to the detriment of detail. You could do the same thing PS.

I looked at the images, I saw the noise performance comparisons and before I say that Dave is wrong, I would have to do similar analysis, where did you get your estimated ISO numbers from? not to mention the claim of exxageration by Sony. I have seen Dave's results verified in part by Phil's results in his 707 review though. ( Low noise, very good high ISO)

There is no reason why Nikon might not
have found similar or better success with the sensitivity and noise
problem for the 5000. We'll find if i am right, soon enough.

Sure they could lie about the ISO ratings and let you think it will
perform better, but that still doesn't allow you higher quality
shots in low light.

Again, size of photosites is not the only factor as is exeplified
by the performance of the d1x and sony 707, image processing and
ccd sensitivity are more important. As for the "slow lens" issue,

The D1x still has sites that have 7 TIMES the area of the cp5000. I
have already commented on the 707. While photosites are not the
only factor, it is the only one that really bears comparison, since
algorithmic improvents will be shared amongst all size sensors.

No, algorithms can be and are patented, these camera makers do not share their algorithms for image processing and noise reduction. Fact.

You can't take it out of the comparison, maybe you can get away with taking CCD sensitivity out..but that's only if they all use the same CCD, which is not guaranteed.

if you know how to shoot with the camera and it has high ISO
reduced noise capability that's actually useable, then the issue
becomes moot. You can boost ISO, and shoot at useable speed while
still getting clean images. Despite the reduced aperture range at
telephoto. We'll know in a few short weeks if I am correct about
this as it regards the 5000.

Big ifs and I think you are about to be dissapointed. The camera
will make use of pixel averaging to get you a nice 1.3MP lower
noise image though.

Peter

LOL, Peter G doesn't quit !

We'll see if I'm right in a few weeks Peter!

DSL

 

[W.R. White]

No one has confirmed the recall yet and I hate to say it that forum has a number of Cannon freaks whio delight on torturing the Sony owners because they did not buy a G2.

I own the F707 and it has worked great since day one so if there is a recall I still don't know what its about - the famous blue flash problem is no different than problems I have had with my Coolpix 995 and Olympus E-10 in some flash shots.

In Sony forum, more people are talking about an "official" RECALL
of the current 707 --- just beware if you want to buy 707 for the
time being !!!

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1009&page=1&message=1695401

To me, both 5000 & 707 are good camera --- just depend on what
features you "weigh" more !

I owned a 995 since July, and is still getting more and more happy
with its picture quality and handling --- don't found any immediate
need to upgrade to 5000 --- maybe Coolpix 5500/6000 to be released
next year !

Jason.

In general, what do you think about the soon-to-be-released CP5000.
For some reason I have seen some negative comments from Nikon fans.

Brian

 

[Peter G]

I looked at the images, I saw the noise performance comparisons and
before I say that Dave is wrong, I would have to do similar
analysis, where did you get your estimated ISO numbers from? not to
mention the claim of exxageration by Sony. I have seen Dave's
results verified in part by Phil's results in his 707 review
though. ( Low noise, very good high ISO)

Quoting Phil:

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/sonydscf707/page16.asp

"The first thing to note is that although both cameras shot the same exposure (1/6 sec, F4.0) the G2 was set to ISO 50, the F707 set to ISO 100... It goes to show the wide variation in what one manufacturer alls 'ISO 100 equiv.' or 'ISO 50 equiv.' The G2's ISO 50 is probably in reality higher than the quoted figure and that the F707's ISO 100 is lower."

I have examined many comparisons and it appears that the G2 is much closer to reporting the ISO correctly. This is not suppositon. The 707 is clearly exaggerating it's claimed ISO values. A simple reason is to get this kind of marketing advantage. Everyone going ga-ga over the "iso400" performance. I also examined the low light tests at IR comparing the 707 and G2 and note the same discrepency at all ISO ranges. Its not a question of anyones believability, its a quesiton of scientific method when examining measureable reality. You can choose to believe the misleading "iso Equivalence" numbers or you can think for yourself and look at what the camera is actually doing.

No, algorithms can be and are patented, these camera makers do not
share their algorithms for image processing and noise reduction.
Fact.

Yes, but if you looked at the problem in detail you would realize the good peformance of the D1x comes from the sensor. All big sensor cameras have very good performance, and all the small ones are quite poor.

You can't take it out of the comparison, maybe you can get away
with taking CCD sensitivity out..but that's only if they all use
the same CCD, which is not guaranteed.

Not guaranteed, just 99.9999% probable. Sony is the only maker of a 2/3" 5MP sensor that I am aware of. Nikon has used Sony Sensors in every consumer camera so far. You expect a change?? Now if they have the Kodak KEF 5mp in there, I will buy it, but thats much larger than 2/3".

LOL, Peter G doesn't quit !

We'll see if I'm right in a few weeks Peter!

You are building a house of cards on erroneous assumptions, I am just trying to get you to examine those assumptions.

Enjoy the wait.

Peter

 

[Chris Harlow]

I have a 990 and have been pleased with it - especially with the macro capability. I didn't think (and still don't) that the jump from 990 to 995 was worthwhile, but the prospect of a 5 megapixel camera with 2cm macro capability that can take my existing accessories is tempting.

Nevertheless, I will wait and see. Reviews based on a production model and actual images posted to this site will be critical. The alternative will be to wait a while longer and save up so that I can make the jump up to the Canon D30 - or perhaps better still, it's successor!

At the end of the day, although I love my 990, I feel that Nikon has already had my cash and I do not owe them any loyalty. They must produce the best camera for my needs if I am to buy it.

Chris

 

[JerryO]

I have a 990 and have been pleased with it - especially with the
macro capability. I didn't think (and still don't) that the jump
from 990 to 995 was worthwhile, but the prospect of a 5 megapixel
camera with 2cm macro capability that can take my existing
accessories is tempting.

Nevertheless, I will wait and see. Reviews based on a production
model and actual images posted to this site will be critical. The
alternative will be to wait a while longer and save up so that I
can make the jump up to the Canon D30 - or perhaps better still,
it's successor!

At the end of the day, although I love my 990, I feel that Nikon
has already had my cash and I do not owe them any loyalty. They
must produce the best camera for my needs if I am to buy it.

Chris

 

[JohnM31499]

I own the F707 and it has worked great since day one so if there is
a recall I still don't know what its about - the famous blue flash
problem is no different than problems I have had with my Coolpix
995 and Olympus E-10 in some flash shots.

If you have one that works correctly, I would say you are pretty lucky. My brother used one for a week & then returned it. The salesman told him that over 50% of them have been returned.

The flash performance was dissapointing, but the over emphasized reds where even worse. He claims you can get better color reproduction from a $8.00 disposable camera.