BOO HOO! No more F707!

[Tigadee]

I've just held and checked out the Dark Angel in the local store and though it is beautiful, I now have my only fear confirmed: It's too small!

I was having a hard time holding it and my right hand just had a really hard time getting a comfortable and firm grip on it! sob Even with a two handed grip, it felt awkward and like it was constantly gonna slip out of my hands!

So sad, so so sad...

Will I be destined to use only models such as the Olympus E-20, Epson 3100Z, or my faithful DSC-D770?--Tigadee

 

[Bert_B]

Hi Tigadee,

Did you realise that the main grip of the 707 is the lens, and not the camera-body itself?

Bert.

I've just held and checked out the Dark Angel in the local store
and though it is beautiful, I now have my only fear confirmed: It's
too small!

I was having a hard time holding it and my right hand just had a
really hard time getting a comfortable and firm grip on it! sob
Even with a two handed grip, it felt awkward and like it was
constantly gonna slip out of my hands!

So sad, so so sad...

Will I be destined to use only models such as the Olympus E-20,
Epson 3100Z, or my faithful DSC-D770?
--
Tigadee

 

[Dennis P O'Neil]

I've just held and checked out the Dark Angel in the local store
and though it is beautiful, I now have my only fear confirmed: It's
too small!

I was having a hard time holding it and my right hand just had a
really hard time getting a comfortable and firm grip on it! sob
Even with a two handed grip, it felt awkward and like it was
constantly gonna slip out of my hands!

So sad, so so sad...

Will I be destined to use only models such as the Olympus E-20,
Epson 3100Z, or my faithful DSC-D770?
--
Tigadee

Sounds very Trollish to me, perhaps the e20 would be your best choice

Dennis

 

[Tigadee]

HEY! Watch it fella!

Anyone who's been in this forum here for the past six months knows me and knows I am a great fan of the 707 and was planning on getting one.

Only fear I had was whether the 707 would be too small for my big hands, since I have tried the 505 before and it is teeny-weeny in my hands!

And I am currently using a Sony Pro DSC-D770, excuse me! Talk about adding salt to the wound! Tell you what, why don't I lie down in front of your driveway tomorrow morning and you can run over me when you pull out to go to work while I give you all my possessions in the world!

Tigadee

Tigadee

Sounds very Trollish to me, perhaps the e20 would be your best choice

Dennis

 

[Tigadee]

Uuuuuuh? Hmmmmmmmm.... That's funny! LOL!

Hi Tigadee,

Did you realise that the main grip of the 707 is the lens, and not
the camera-body itself?

Bert

 

[Bert_B]

Not meanth to be funny. I am very serious: The main grip of the 707 IS the lens!

Hi Tigadee,

Did you realise that the main grip of the 707 is the lens, and not
the camera-body itself?

Bert

 

[Tigadee]

Are you a leftie?

Um, OK, so you grip it so you can zoom, but the part which contains the LCD screen and shutter is considered the body, no?

Tigadee

Not meanth to be funny. I am very serious: The main grip of the 707
IS the lens!

 

[David J. Littleboy]

HEY! Watch it fella!

Only fear I had was whether the 707 would be too small for my big
hands, since I have tried the 505 before and it is teeny-weeny in
my hands!

Yup, the F707 grip is far from wonderful. I have long scrawny fingers, and when I hold the grip, I end up holding with just my thumb and middle finger. Since the grip isn't deep enough for the length of my fingers, the middle finger angles down and shoves the ring finger down, and the ring finger ends up under the camera, leaving the right pinky swinging in the breeze (actually, curled up uselesly).

However, it's no problem if I support the camera with my left hand.

David J. Littleboy
Tokyo, Japan

 

[HelenPB]

David,

How much is the 707 in Tokyo? I went to Best in Okinawa to see it, but all they had was a display with a note saying they were taking orders. The price was Y118,000. Was I ever disappointed (plus unhappy with the price!). But my husband is going up for a meeting on Thursday and I was thinking of having him take a look for me.

Helen

HEY! Watch it fella!

Only fear I had was whether the 707 would be too small for my big
hands, since I have tried the 505 before and it is teeny-weeny in
my hands!

Yup, the F707 grip is far from wonderful. I have long scrawny
fingers, and when I hold the grip, I end up holding with just my
thumb and middle finger. Since the grip isn't deep enough for the
length of my fingers, the middle finger angles down and shoves the
ring finger down, and the ring finger ends up under the camera,
leaving the right pinky swinging in the breeze (actually, curled up
uselesly).

However, it's no problem if I support the camera with my left hand.

David J. Littleboy
Tokyo, Japan

 

[David J. Littleboy]

David,

How much is the 707 in Tokyo? I went to Best in Okinawa to see it,
but all they had was a display with a note saying they were taking
orders. The price was Y118,000. Was I ever disappointed (plus
unhappy with the price!). But my husband is going up for a meeting
on Thursday and I was thinking of having him take a look for me.

That's the going price in Tokyo as well, although you get a 10% credit towards your memory stick purchase, so it's pretty much US list.

FWIW, I've got a few little niggles and one big one*, but no way I'm giving it up.

: I hate to admit it, but a Fuji troll I got into a spat with was actually right: The F707 has sharpening halos even with the sharpening set to -2. I guess it's the noise reduction. Sigh.

David J. Littleboy
Tokyo, Japan

 

[HelenPB]

I wasn't aware that you had bought one! Congratulations. I remember your comments about focusing with the S75 or S85, so I'm not surprised. So you're happy with it, I take it, other than the few niggles?

Where do you get a 10% credit? I usually buy at Yamagiwa in Akihabara because I can get the manual in English and there's no hassle with avoiding the tax (unlike Okinawa, where they have never heard of the concept). But they've never given me any credit, although when I got the S85, they added in a neat carrying bag, snazzy metal datebook and calculator and something else -- very nihonteki.

Helen

That's the going price in Tokyo as well, although you get a 10%
credit towards your memory stick purchase, so it's pretty much US
list.

FWIW, I've got a few little niggles and one big one*, but no way
I'm giving it up.

: I hate to admit it, but a Fuji troll I got into a spat with was
actually right: The F707 has sharpening halos even with the
sharpening set to -2. I guess it's the noise reduction. Sigh.

David J. Littleboy
Tokyo, Japan

 

[Bert_B]

Nope, not a leftie. Yep, LCD screen and shutter is body, the way to hold this camera is in my opinion left hand supporting the lens (and thus stabilizing the whole camera), right hand grabbing the body.

Um, OK, so you grip it so you can zoom, but the part which contains
the LCD screen and shutter is considered the body, no?

Tigadee

Not meanth to be funny. I am very serious: The main grip of the 707
IS the lens!

 

[Tigadee]

An example of lateral thinking...

Yes, the right hand sort of grabs rather than holds or grips the handgrip though, mainly with the thumb, forefinger and middle finger. The rest just tries to find as comfortable a position elsewhere as possible.

I still like this camera a lot, especially as the reports and sample pics come in from users/owners. I am particularly impressed by the fact that this is a fast lens with f2.0 aperture at wide angle, the 5X zoom is very useful (and longer than my 5X DSC-D770 which is 28mm-140mm, the 707 is 38mm-190mm, was it?), the auto-focus has been reported as fast and accurate and lastly, the EVF is very usable (better than the Fuji 6900 or Minolta D7's both of which I have personal experience with).

There are other great things such as the AF assist laser too. These are the main issues for me since obviously image quality is a given as "very good to excellent".

Anyway, I must think of a way to make a custom add-on that extends the body of the 707 downwards, like those motor units for film SLRs. Not necessarily a real motor unit but something like that of used on the supercompact Sony digital video cameras such as the PC9 and PC110...

Tigadee

Nope, not a leftie. Yep, LCD screen and shutter is body, the way to
hold this camera is in my opinion left hand supporting the lens
(and thus stabilizing the whole camera), right hand grabbing the
body.

 

[David J. Littleboy]

I wasn't aware that you had bought one! Congratulations. I remember
your comments about focusing with the S75 or S85, so I'm not
surprised. So you're happy with it, I take it, other than the few
niggles?

Well, there is a certain unhappiness: I haven't had time to use it due to work and other committments. (And it's been raining/cloudy here.)

The EVF works with my glasses, the start up time is quick, I don't have to use a lens cap, I can use filters without a stupid tube. It's nice being able to see shutter speed/f-stop/EV in the EVF. Etc. etc. etc.

Basically, it feels like using a real camera instead of a toy P&S. Either the S85 or the G2 is a complete joke in comparison, in terms of actually using the camera. Did I mention not having to guess what's in and what's not in the field of view through the viewfinder? The number of "Thank you, Sony!"'s is very large.

However, I did get one shot where it found the bookcases instead of my wife, despite using the hologram. My fault, I guess, since she was only 1/3 of the way into the focusing area.

Where do you get a 10% credit?

The larger stores have a "point card" that looks like a credit card. Each time you buy something you get 10% of the actual purchase price in points, and you can use the points to pay for later purchases. Yodobashi (main store in Shinjuku) and (I think) Sakura do this. TZONE does also. I'd guess Yamagiwa and LAOX would also.

I usually buy at Yamagiwa in
Akihabara because I can get the manual in English and there's no
hassle with avoiding the tax

I think it may be difficult to avoid the (5%) tax and get the 10% as well. At least on the visa I'm on (I'm here on the life at hard labor plan), I think I'm required to pay the tax. (I've never asked for an English manual, although one would be nice, since it still takes me at least twice as long to read J as E. Sigh.)

David J. Littleboy
Tokyo, Japan

 

[Bert M]

HEY! Watch it fella!

Only fear I had was whether the 707 would be too small for my big
hands, since I have tried the 505 before and it is teeny-weeny in
my hands!

Yup, the F707 grip is far from wonderful. I have long scrawny
fingers, and when I hold the grip, I end up holding with just my
thumb and middle finger. Since the grip isn't deep enough for the
length of my fingers, the middle finger angles down and shoves the
ring finger down, and the ring finger ends up under the camera,
leaving the right pinky swinging in the breeze (actually, curled up
uselesly).

David try curling youre pinky under the bottom of the body and rest the body on top of the side of your pinky. I t should provide a sturdy comfortable grip

 

[David J. Littleboy]

Yup, the F707 grip is far from wonderful. I have long scrawny
fingers, and when I hold the grip, I end up holding with just my
thumb and middle finger. Since the grip isn't deep enough for the
length of my fingers, the middle finger angles down and shoves the
ring finger down, and the ring finger ends up under the camera,
leaving the right pinky swinging in the breeze (actually, curled up
uselesly).

David try curling youre pinky under the bottom of the body and rest
the body on top of the side of your pinky. It should provide a
sturdy comfortable grip.

Yes: essentially what I have is my ring finger doing what your pinky is doing. The reason for that is my long fingers. With 2 fingers on the grip, my indix finger is nowhere near the shutter release. With one finger on the grip, my thumb is on the indent, and it's easy to control the shutter and jog dial.

The only problem, is that my right hand gets tired if I don't remember to support the camera with my left hand...

David J. Littleboy
Tokyo, Japan

 

[soli]

An example of lateral thinking...

Yes, the right hand sort of grabs rather than holds or grips the
handgrip though, mainly with the thumb, forefinger and middle
finger. The rest just tries to find as comfortable a position
elsewhere as possible.

I still like this camera a lot, especially as the reports and
sample pics come in from users/owners. I am particularly impressed
by the fact that this is a fast lens with f2.0 aperture at wide
angle, the 5X zoom is very useful (and longer than my 5X DSC-D770
which is 28mm-140mm, the 707 is 38mm-190mm, was it?), the
auto-focus has been reported as fast and accurate and lastly, the
EVF is very usable (better than the Fuji 6900 or Minolta D7's both
of which I have personal experience with).

There are other great things such as the AF assist laser too. These
are the main issues for me since obviously image quality is a given
as "very good to excellent".

Anyway, I must think of a way to make a custom add-on that extends
the body of the 707 downwards, like those motor units for film
SLRs. Not necessarily a real motor unit but something like that of
used on the supercompact Sony digital video cameras such as the PC9
and PC110...

Tigadee

Tigadee,

I have large hands,and I used a grip that was made for Oly IS 1 as an add on my oly 2500( some modificatins needed) it does extend the gripping area vertically as you want, cost $ 5 .

 

[Dan Clark]

I have a Sony 505V and I've played with a 707 for few minutes in camera store. I agree with Bert_B completely... The correct way to hold a 505V/707 is by the lens barrel in the left hand, with the right hand holding and adjusting the electronics control module ("body" is kind of dated, don't ya think?).

With the twistie body (oops, "electronics control module"), you need to remember that the only the lens needs to be pointed at the subject. The rest of the camera is twisted to whatever position is most comfortable.

And, yes... I'm a rightie!

Regards,

Dan.

----

Um, OK, so you grip it so you can zoom, but the part which contains
the LCD screen and shutter is considered the body, no?

Tigadee

Not meanth to be funny. I am very serious: The main grip of the 707
IS the lens!

 

[HelenPB]

Well, there is a certain unhappiness: I haven't had time to use it
due to work and other committments. (And it's been raining/cloudy
here.)

Gee, it's been beautiful here... I had to laugh when you commented previously on the lack of color in Tokyo. Boy, is that true. And the only rainy day of our month-long vacation in August/September was in Tokyo. Figures.

The EVF works with my glasses, the start up time is quick, I don't
have to use a lens cap, I can use filters without a stupid tube.
It's nice being able to see shutter speed/f-stop/EV in the EVF.
Etc. etc. etc.

Basically, it feels like using a real camera instead of a toy P&S.
Either the S85 or the G2 is a complete joke in comparison, in terms
of actually using the camera. Did I mention not having to guess
what's in and what's not in the field of view through the
viewfinder? The number of "Thank you, Sony!"'s is very large.

Sounds great to me... BTW, did you sell your S85?

The larger stores have a "point card" that looks like a credit
card. Each time you buy something you get 10% of the actual
purchase price in points, and you can use the points to pay for
later purchases. Yodobashi (main store in Shinjuku) and (I think)
Sakura do this. TZONE does also. I'd guess Yamagiwa and LAOX would
also.

I usually buy at Yamagiwa in
Akihabara because I can get the manual in English and there's no
hassle with avoiding the tax

I misspoke. It's LAOX that I have bought the cameras at recently. But same difference.

I think it may be difficult to avoid the (5%) tax and get the 10%
as well. At least on the visa I'm on (I'm here on the life at hard
labor plan), I think I'm required to pay the tax. (I've never asked
for an English manual, although one would be nice, since it still
takes me at least twice as long to read J as E. Sigh.)

I'm quite familiar with the life-at-hard-labor plan, having lived in Tokyo for four years and worked for Hitachi. I get the tax-free benefit because I have diplomatic status, at least in Tokyo. Okinawans look at me like I'm nuts when I show them my gaimusho and shohizei cards, thus the reason I always buy electronics in Akihabara. I guess I'll run up there in November, if I can wait that long... I would think the Japanese manual would be a piece of cake for you, seeing from your bio that you're a J-E technical translator. Wish I had studied Japanese more carefully years ago...

Helen Betts

 

[Tigadee]

You guys make it sound so easy but it's not...

The way you suggest holding it, then perhaps Sony had better re-design the 707 for the 909 where the shutter release is on the lens, not the 'electronics control module'! ;-)

I'm gonna try Soli's idea and see it that can be made to work. I'd rather try and find some comfortable if not aesthetically ungainly solution, rather than contort my right hand just to suit the product, when it should be the product that fits the hand well.

Or maybe the 707 will make a fine present for my wife!

Tigadee

I have a Sony 505V and I've played with a 707 for few minutes in
camera store. I agree with Bert_B completely... The correct way
to hold a 505V/707 is by the lens barrel in the left hand, with the
right hand holding and adjusting the electronics control module
("body" is kind of dated, don't ya think?).

With the twistie body (oops, "electronics control module"), you
need to remember that the only the lens needs to be pointed at the
subject. The rest of the camera is twisted to whatever position
is most comfortable.

And, yes... I'm a rightie!

Regards,

Dan.