D200 - Too little too late?

[MBR]

Speaking for myself, it has all of the extras I've been waiting for: (1) metering compatibility with all of those great AIS manual focus lenses; (2) a better viewfinder (which will make those AIS manual focus lenses easier to use); (3) approximately one high quality 8x10's worth of extra pixels over and in addition to the already quite adequate 6mp of the D70 for the occasional huge print; and (4) mirror lock-up for those low-light shots I like.

If money was raining down on my head, I'd consider the D2x, but the D70 sounds like it will be all that I need for several years into the foreseeable future. (This is all assuming, of course, that the image quality from the sensor will be quite nice.)

I'm betting that there are a lot of other eager potential purchasers who have been waiting for something just like the D200.

 

[Ronnie Howell]

Agreed! I was planning on a DSLR next summer (after I graduate from university) and I was pretty much set on the 20D replacement (out in February maybe?), but Nikon has certainly impressed me here. I'm really looking forward to see how this camera performs in the real world. I've shot Canon manual focus for a couple of years, but this could make a Nikon guy out of me yet

 

[TimK5]

....build quality doesn't give me a better picture. And that's what counts. I can get the same picture quality from a N55 or a F5.

 

[LurkerMan]

...run for your life before it's too late! Canon will soon be introducing the 39MP Canon chip in a FF DSLR with 14 fps, Free Wi-Max service, Laser Sighting and a coupon for a free dozen at Krispy Kreme.

--
A 2005 Resolution for us all:
Shoot more, type less. : )

 

[Backdoctor]

Considering that this camera will likely not be replaced for
another 3-4 years, I'm not sure it is enough and price wise it
needs to compete with the 20D not the 5D. My only caviat for this
statement is if the D200 turns out to have excellent ground
breaking high ISO performance (I'd be happy with a good noise free
6mp DSLR for my weddings)

I am a Nikon user and have a D70 and S3 pro kit. Being honest when
looking at the D200 other than shooting speed and iTTL I am
confident my S3 will deliver as much res and most likely more
pleasing images to the eye than the D200 and that is without
considering dynamic range. I also shoot landscapes for stock and
have been waiting for a digicam that is competive resolution wise
without weighing and costing as much as a house (D2x 1DS mkII) at
£570 the Sony R1 looks a credible alternative to the D200 (for this
type of photography only I am not advocating a digicam over a DSLR)
but as I have said on another thread my S3 is probably still better
than both of them.

your claim below is dispelled on Phil's preview as in this quote:

"One thing you must never lose perspective of is that (for the same aspect ratio) you must quadruple megapixel count to double resolution. This means that a twelve megapixel sensor of today has approximately twice the resolution (horizontally or vertically) of the three megapixel sensor of yesterday. Hence as megapixel counts climb it becomes harder and harder demonstrate a significant resolution advantage, the 'jumps' in megapixel count have to become much bigger. The diagram below is a comparison of output image size from five different 8 megapixel-and-up digital SLR's."

I dont see how 8 to 12 is such a massive jump.

8mp to 10mp is not a massive jump 8mp to 12mp is and at £1300 the
D200 looks expensive to me. The D100 was a competitor of the D60
and 10D, the D200 is a really in the same class as the 20D (and 30D
when it appears) I also predict that we will see a Canon 30D, 40D
and maybe even a 50D before we see a D300. This is not a Nikon vs
Canon thing but just something to consider for the enthusiast or
semi pro who wear out or replace bodies on a regular basis.

Don't get me wrong I may still buy one but I also may buy another
S3 instead. It's going to be an interesting few months.

--
Harris

PBase/DPReview/NTF supporter
Egret Stalker #4, WSSA #29

http://www.pbase.com/backdoctor

 

[Backdoctor]

I was sure for years I would get a Canon DSLR at some point( I have
an S400 and a G6).

If I were buying today, this would probably be it.

What more do you need? 10 or 12 MP makes almost no difference. 10
relatively clean is all I could hope for.

From what I read in the preview, I get the distince impression that
this body is a step up on the canon 20d and gives the D2x a run for
its money. The only potential mis-step here is canabalizing some
D2x sales.

In some respects I was thinking the same, but the D2 series bodies are a big upgrade in my opinion, and it is more than the mp difference for the X. Pro's need the speed it offers, and the build and versatility cant be matched. Either way, I do agree, things should be fun to watch over the next few months.

The only thing that Canon could do now is release a 1.3 crop in the
same price range. That would get me, because unlike most I am
neither a fan of 1.5 or FF. I think 1.3 is the best compromise.

--
Harris

PBase/DPReview/NTF supporter
Egret Stalker #4, WSSA #29

http://www.pbase.com/backdoctor

 

[Terry Sessford]

I was sure for years I would get a Canon DSLR at some point( I have
an S400 and a G6).

If I were buying today, this would probably be it.

I do have a Canon DSLR + Canon compact digicam, but of all the DSLRs on the market the D200 comes closest to matching my requrements (followed by the Canon 5D and 1DmkII). On paper the D200 looks very attractive so I await sample images with great interest.

What more do you need? 10 or 12 MP makes almost no difference. 10
relatively clean is all I could hope for.

Agree.

From what I read in the preview, I get the distince impression that
this body is a step up on the canon 20d

Definitely - I was very disappointed with the 20D body.

and gives the D2x a run for
its money. The only potential mis-step here is canabalizing some
D2x sales.

The only thing that Canon could do now is release a 1.3 crop in the
same price range. That would get me, because unlike most I am
neither a fan of 1.5 or FF. I think 1.3 is the best compromise.

Agree absolutely - I have come to the conclusion that a FOV crop of 1.4x to 1.3x is near ideal.

Terry.

 

[janneman02]

ahh we hear those stories about Pentax too....
Only worry about the future when the time has come....
--
janneman
http://www.pbase.com/jl2

 

[Peter White]

if the 5d was a 'revolution' in delivering full frame at half the
price, then the D200 is easily the same in the ergonomics
department.

What are the ergonomic benefits to the D200, which by the way you've never held in your hands?

NOTHING comes close to this cameras build quality. the D100, D70s,
S2, S3, 20d et al.. are like kids toys.

How do you know this?

--
Peter White

 

[NL]

I'm sorry but I don't buy that. For about 2 years the EOS 1DS was praised as being head and shoulders the best DSLR around and it's 11MP was not even double the then crop of 6MP DSLR's (D100, D60). I think 8 mp to 12 MP is significant. If not then it wouldn't be worth upgradaing until 24mp comes around.

I lurked here for ages without posting and now I remember why boy are there some defensive people out there. Just remember we are talking about a camera not a person. I'll use whatever camera best suits my needs and feel quite comfortable (if my wallet allows) switching brands.

The point of my original post is right now the D200 looks a very nice camera but it has taken them almost 4 years to get there, I was expecting more. I'll upgrade to the D200 when I next need to change bodies (if I am still in the NIkon camp), had the announcement been more exciting e.g 12 mp or a Fuji super CCD sensor (10+10), dust buster etc etc I would have placed my order straight away. Someone hit the nail on the head earlier a year ago it would have been groundbreaking. A good camera no doubt but not a must have (for me anyway)

 

[Backdoctor]

well, we can agree to disagree then. What works for you is all that counts for you, and the same for me. In the end, just get what suits your needs, learn how to use it, enjoy it and take lots of shots...

This was taken with the "old" D100 and new 24-85 with my new sb800



just a family snapshot, but I will do some more pp'ng to clean it up some.

I'm sorry but I don't buy that. For about 2 years the EOS 1DS was
praised as being head and shoulders the best DSLR around and it's
11MP was not even double the then crop of 6MP DSLR's (D100, D60).
I think 8 mp to 12 MP is significant. If not then it wouldn't be
worth upgradaing until 24mp comes around.

I lurked here for ages without posting and now I remember why boy
are there some defensive people out there. Just remember we are
talking about a camera not a person. I'll use whatever camera best
suits my needs and feel quite comfortable (if my wallet allows)
switching brands.

The point of my original post is right now the D200 looks a very
nice camera but it has taken them almost 4 years to get there, I
was expecting more. I'll upgrade to the D200 when I next need to
change bodies (if I am still in the NIkon camp), had the
announcement been more exciting e.g 12 mp or a Fuji super CCD
sensor (10+10), dust buster etc etc I would have placed my order
straight away. Someone hit the nail on the head earlier a year ago
it would have been groundbreaking. A good camera no doubt but not
a must have (for me anyway)

--
Harris

PBase/DPReview/NTF supporter
Egret Stalker #4, WSSA #29

http://www.pbase.com/backdoctor

 

[Carl Maiorino]

...For the naysayers to respond. The camera has just been announced and already there is criticism.

Looking at Phil's preview, this camera looks like a winner!!!

 

[thomas1973]

8mp to 10mp is not a massive jump 8mp to 12mp is and at £1300 the
D200 looks expensive to me.

But then again, the 10mp to 12mp isn't much of a jump either ;-)

The D100 was a competitor of the D60
and 10D, the D200 is a really in the same class as the 20D (and 30D
when it appears)

I disagree strongly on this one, especially if you're considering them as 'pro' cameras. The D200 has way better build quality AND weather sealing.

I also predict that we will see a Canon 30D, 40D
and maybe even a 50D before we see a D300.

I think so too. I'm so glad I'm with Nikon

I feel a lot of Canon's updates are like 'point updates' in the software world. Canon makes thw 1.0, then the 1.3, then the 1.6 before, finally, the 2.0 is ready. Nikon goes from 1.0 to 2.0.

This is not a Nikon vs
Canon thing but just something to consider for the enthusiast or
semi pro who wear out or replace bodies on a regular basis.

??? This is the one I REALLY don't get. Firstly, I don't know any enthusiasts who "wears out bodies on a regular basis", and even if I did, I think it would be the strongest card for getting the D200 with its pro build quality and pro 100.000 cycles certified shutter.

I also think most people upgrade because there's just created a need. Not many people "need" more than the D70, IMO. Many of us want something more, though

Don't get me wrong I may still buy one but I also may buy another
S3 instead. It's going to be an interesting few months.

I agree

Thomas.

 

[RBlu]

No negitive waves here. I am very happy with Nikon and have preordered the D200. Now off for my bird flu shot. : )

 

[Michael Mohrmann]

The only thing that Canon could do now is release a 1.3 crop in the
same price range. That would get me, because unlike most I am
neither a fan of 1.5 or FF. I think 1.3 is the best compromise.

Yes, a 1.3x crop would be a very good compromise. It would also allow for an improvement in the viewfinder over the 1.5/1.6x cropped DSLRs. At this point, I am leaning heavily toward the D200. I will wait a couple of months to see the user reports on the D200 about image quality, high (> 400) ISO, AF performance, etc., before deciding. But if the 30D (or whatever replaces the 20D) is announced before then and is a 1.3x crop DSLR, that is going to make for a very tough decision.

 

[Jared Hunter]

Why have you spend $2500 for a mere 6MP camera?

Newbies tend to be obsessed with medgapixels whereas the more experienced value dynamic range as well.

 

[Thom Hogan]

Considering that this camera will likely not be replaced for
another 3-4 years, I'm not sure it is enough and price wise it
needs to compete with the 20D not the 5D.

1. Price can always drop.
2. If you look deeply, the D200 is essentially much more a D2x than a D70.

3. I think it's an interesting pricing position. At US$1699 it gives a lot more camera than the 20D for not much more price. And it gives the 5D quite a run for the money at a much lower price. Nice straddle position, I think.

My only caviat for this
statement is if the D200 turns out to have excellent ground
breaking high ISO performance (I'd be happy with a good noise free
6mp DSLR for my weddings)

Try a D50 shooting JPEG.

I am a Nikon user and have a D70 and S3 pro kit. Being honest when
looking at the D200 other than shooting speed and iTTL I am
confident my S3 will deliver as much res and most likely more
pleasing images to the eye than the D200 and that is without
considering dynamic range.

You're judging a camera before we've actually seen how it performs.

I also shoot landscapes for stock and
have been waiting for a digicam that is competive resolution wise
without weighing and costing as much as a house (D2x 1DS mkII) at
£570 the Sony R1 looks a credible alternative to the D200 (for this
type of photography only I am not advocating a digicam over a DSLR)
but as I have said on another thread my S3 is probably still better
than both of them.

For doing high-quality landscape stock I'll say two words: mirror lockup. Neither the Sony nor the Fujifilm have it.

--
Thom Hogan
author, Nikon Field Guide & Nikon Flash Guide
editor, Nikon DSLR Report
author, Complete Guides: D70, D100, D1 series, D2h, D2x, S2 Pro
http://www.bythom.com

 

[Riku]

We'll know it's a maturing market when either Canon or Nikon comes
out with a body having fewer but larger photosites so as to reduce
the high ISO noise and increase DR.

Yes, it's called the Canon 5d

How many wedding photographers need a 12 or 16 mp body? Wouldn't a
6mp body with the latest technology give you a better 8x10 print?

Yes, or even better a 12,8 mpixel full frame like the 5d

If a wedding photographer could run at 3200 ISO inside the church
and not have to use flash, that's a selling point, it seems to me.

It's alredy possible with the 5d ;-)

I guess the market must mature.

--
Peter White

--
Riku

 

[TimK5]

Try a D50 shooting JPEG.

Yeah, does anybody know why the JPEGs actually performe "better" in the noise issue then the NEFs....?

For doing high-quality landscape stock I'll say two words: mirror
lockup.

plus lots of MPs

 

[Adam Kmiec]

Thom

While the price of the D200 can drop so can the price of the 5D or the 20D replacement. I agree with your position that this is more D2X than D70; although I'm bummed about the lack of a built in grip. The price position is actually quite perplexing to me. The 5D offers FF, which no other manufacturer can even touch; regardless of perceived performance. Pricing it above the 20D to me negates the ease for canon switchers. Pricing it at or just below would have been a better move in my opinion.

1. Price can always drop.
2. If you look deeply, the D200 is essentially much more a D2x than
a D70.
3. I think it's an interesting pricing position. At US$1699 it
gives a lot more camera than the 20D for not much more price. And
it gives the 5D quite a run for the money at a much lower price.
Nice straddle position, I think.

Well, I think we all are. The pictures will speak for themselves, I'm convinced of that. If it's anything like the D50 it will be a winner.

You're judging a camera before we've actually seen how it performs.

I've said this before but the strangest feature is the integrated wireless. Does it really appeal to prosumers and how can they justify the inclusion when you have the wireless adapters for the D2x selling for 600.00.
--
Currently refusing to upgrade until Nikon gives me FF.