Gas Prices

One them I am jealous of is your public transportation. If were
to attempt to take public transportation, it would triple my
commute time. Though I've heard your public transportation isn't
as good as it used to be.
Heh, USA public transport is sparse on non-existant! I don't think you can get much further than 30 miles from a railway station in the UK mainland and you're probably no more than 5 or 10 miles from a bus stop where at least one bus a day stops.

A typical 60-minute commute into London can cost upwards of £100 ($180) there and back though. For three times that I can fly to New York and back!

It still works out cheaper for me to not have a car. Taxis, trains and buses cost money, but less than a car does. Even if I get my shopping delivered from the supermarket and pay the delivery charge, I still end up better off!

Jonathan
 
And you all are complaining about your gas prices and car costs.

Japan is the highest I have ever seen! Every highway, bridge, and tunnel has a toll! It's insane. Gas prices are around $4 U.S. per gallon from what I have figured and there are anual fees.

Then there are the taxes and the anual checkup fees (around $1200 US every 3 years if I'm not mistaken). Most people just buy a new car to avoid this check-up that's extremely strict and may require very high costing parts replacements.

The GF just got a speeding ticket and she said that it would cost her $800 US and that she would have to take a drivers safety course that will cost another $250.

I almost forgot.......just to get a license here you are required to take a full-on driving course (with the Caution Beginning Driver signs and everythign) at a cost of around $2000.00 US.

I have no interest in driving here. And I love driving......God I miss my gass guzzling Camaro Z28. I need some speed!

Ian

p.s. I think I'm going to buy a 2nd car when I get home. When I left gas prices were at $1.75 or so a gallon.......now. WOW. I need a hybrid or a motorcycle at those prices.

--
http://www.ianz28.smugmug.com

 
Anyone who wants to make it their business what I'm doing in my car is a Communist and un-American--and a disgrace to society. Even if my behavior affects you, yes EVEN if it affects you. You have to draw the line somewhere--this "what you do affects me too" can only go so far, as I'm about to illustrate.

Scientific data has shown time & time again that eating food is just as much of a distraction as the phone is. So is fiddling with your car stereo. If you don't believe that, ask the family of the lady here whose grown daughter was killed while jogging because of a van's driver distracted by--guess what--his car stereo. (Or would that be VAN stereo?)

There was outrage, but I bet you dollars to D-SLRs that the outcry would've been ten times that had the source of the driver's distraction been a cellular phone. That's just bigotry plain and simple. Me--I don't care if he was distracted by a phone, a radio, or a jelly donut stuck to his face. He was DISTRACTED by his BEHAVIOR, not by a phone or a damn donut.

But you NEEEEEVER hear of someone trying to ban eating in the car, applying makeup, etc while driving. It's just cellular phones. This is pure bigotry. If you don't believe me, notice all the "no cell phones" signs in lobbies and restaurants. They never say anything about any other source of noise, and I can tell you--I've heard customers talking to each other IN THE FLESH who were just as noisy as any cell phone chatter ever dared to be, but no one said a thing to them--just the cell phone user.

That is bigotry plain and simple. If you support this, you're a bigot.

Besides that--since when is what I do in my car any of your business EVEN IF IT AFFECTS YOU? That's right, EVEN IF IT AFFECTS YOU, to some extent at some point, I say--it STILL isn't any of your business.

Speaking of my illustration--I could make the same arguments as to why, for instance, there should be spy cameras in every private home with the government watching every thing you do. NOT the public streets, I'm talking your private home. We're talking "The Truman Show" for real.

Why? Because of all the high health insurance costs related to home accidents. You DO realize that home accidents are one of THE major causes of death & injuries, do you not? And to be sure when it comes to other such Communist laws like helmet-laws for cyclists and seat-belt usage laws--and add to that now making it your business what I'm eating--medical costs have been used as the justification for this Communist nonsense.

And if you are going to use medical expenses as justification for butting your nose into my private business in what I'm doing in my car, or what I'm eating, or whether or not I have a helmet on my head while cycling--what's to stop the goverment from decreeing the same thing with your home? To wit--since home accidents are so prevalent and the applicable hospital costs so expensive, we're going to spy on you and give you a $50 fine if you are caught, say, putting in a new light bulb in your ceiling fan while standing on an inverted 5-gallon bucket or wobbly bar-stool, when you are required BY LAW to use an OSHA-approved safety ladder.

Even if you don't injure yourself, if you are spotted in your OWN HOME doing such risky behavior, we're going to fine you--after all, your foolishness is raising health care costs for everyone else.

Sorry folks, but if you're going to be a Communist and make it your business what I'm doing in my car on such shallow specious arguments, it is only consistent that we mandate spy cameras for all private residences to make sure that fall you took wasn't foolishness on your part from using a 5-gallon bucket as a fake-stepladder.

And if you're going to say it's OK to regulate cellular phone usage but not make-up usage or eating in the car, you're a bigot with a special racist attitude of sorts towards cell phone users. It's bigotry every bit as much as the redneck of the 50s calling African-Americans that word that rhymes with "trigger."

---



LRH
http://www.pbase.com/larrytucaz
 
As for cell phones unless your a doctor what can't wait until you
can pull over or get home!
That's for ME to decide, NOT you.

That's none of your business. What I do in my car is none of your business. Even if this act supposedly affects your safety--which is a specious argument at best--at some point it STILL isn't any of your business.

The "safety" argument is just a vehicle for another Communist law. Period. Otherwise, I think it's my business what you're doing in the privacy of your own home--are you engaging in risky behavior like using a wobbly old bar stool for changing that hard-to-reach lightbulb, rather than using a government-approved step ladder? If so, then you're increasing my medical insurance rates with that risky behavior and I demand that the government make it their business to spy on you in your house every minute of every day to make sure you're not doing this--and fine you if you do, just as they fine folks for using their phones in their vehicles.

If one applies, so does the other. If you're going to advocate spying on me in the privacy of my car where it's not any of your business, then you are advocating others spying on you in your house where it's not anyone else's business either.

Maybe this spying on people in their cars nonsense works in Europe--which lately looks more & more like the Soviet Union of yore--but in MOST (not all, but most) of the US where things still make sense, that nosiness won't fly around here. As far as I'm concerned, our point of view is the more enlightened one.

Can we stick to Nikons incidentally? I like Nikons, but I don't like this liberal socialist garbage I'm hearing. Let's stay on-topic.

---



LRH
http://www.pbase.com/larrytucaz
 
I think you need to look at the amount of disposable income to compare like for like.

For instance, here in the UK I believe the day each year when we stop working for the government and actually start working for ourselves is sometime in June. The cost of living here is massively higher than in the US and our taxes are also much higher when added together. However, the so called "state benefits" pension etc. are with one exception the lowest in Europe.

So, we in the Uk are ripped off royally - we pay huge taxes and get little for them. All public services, education, health, police, military and the transport infrastructure have been severely underfunded for decades, with the result that nothing in this country works properly. It is doubtful that any government could now tax the people sufficiently highly to ever restore the balance, even if the will existed.

The result - UK PLC is now in terminal decline in my opinion. That's why the fuel price rises are more keenly felt and less affordable by the average Briton than for people in most other developed countries.

So it's no good saying because we pay more fuel duty we must be getting more in benefits - it ain't necessarily so unfortunately

Lionheart

Dragons slain, trolls hung, drawn & quartered, (this is a completely free public service), witches burnt at the stake, serfs freed, maidens rescued, crusades fought, moats dug, sieges mounted, armour de-rusted, swords sharpened, boils lanced, teeth pulled, night soil collected, scolds bridled, outlaws hunted, virgins deflowered - call for free estimate
 
And I was thinking, what a great shot :-)

.60 difference between two stations across the street from one another. The one station was floored, the other had the attendant sitting outside in the shade. My wife said, "boy they are real dopey", and I said nope he is just biding his time, that other station will run out by the end of the day. Sure enough, on our way back from the beach the one was down to only regular and the other got all the spill over...
 
You can drive in your house in your car and talk on the phone all you want.

Driving on public road is just that - driving on public road so it is business of the public. Don't mix rights and priviliges.

Hmm, it's a photo forum so it should be related.

OK, I'd like to see the picture of you excersising your right to drive a car in your house :-)

--
Andrew Kalinowski
Some snapshots and few photos: http://www.canadianmaps.ca/photos.htm
http://www.GPSNuts.com Recreational GPS and mapping (hobby)
 
You can drive in your house in your car and talk on the phone all
you want.
Driving on public road is just that - driving on public road so it
is business of the public.
It doesn't matter that it's on the public road. It STILL isn't any of your business, even if it does affect your safety, even if it does affect your medical insurance premiums etc. It just isn't any of your business.

You have to draw the line somewhere. Surely privacy is not absolute; just because I own a home doesn't mean I can hold people hostage there or have slavery. But just as "it's my private property, not any of your business" isn't absolute--it's on a relative scale--so it goes with "it affects me so it is my business."

You can draw many parallels where a persons' behavior affects someone else in a certain way but we've nonetheless had the PROPER tendency to say that involving ourselves in that situation under that premise is going too far. And to me, trying to make it your business whether I'm on the phone or not is going too far.

To say that it is your business--even in the public domain--that just is Communism being apoused. It's going too far.

It's not the law where I live, and yes I will say it--I will get off my cellular phone in MY car in MY interior when you pry it from my dead, cold fingers.

---



LRH
http://www.pbase.com/larrytucaz
 
I think that you have no slightest clue what comunism really is. Neither did McArthy (SP?) but more to the point: I am a member of a public so it is my business what you do on my property especially whan it affects my safety. You are granted privilige to drive on public road and it is my opinion that if you use the cell phone when driving, that privilige should be revoked just like it should be revoked for drunk driving.

You and I have the right to disagree. Lets just use it and go back to photo / Nikon related stuff.

--
Andrew Kalinowski
Some snapshots and few photos: http://www.canadianmaps.ca/photos.htm
http://www.GPSNuts.com Recreational GPS and mapping (hobby)
 
We are depleting fossil fuel reserves quicker than expected. Transportation uses only about 16% of crude oil. More of it goes to... guess what: food production. Drive bigger car and eat smaller sandwiches.
Here is an interesting link: http://www.lifeaftertheoilcrash.net/

No need to panic yet. We have enough of oil for at least 20 years. Of course be prepared to pay about $1000 per gallon in that time.
 
I think that you have no slightest clue what comunism really is.
Of course I do. I read my history. And I know that the forefathers of this country didn't die for freedoms to be taken away because you think every single thing I do affects you & is such your business. Bull-feathers.
I am a member of a
public so it is my business what you do on my property especially
whan it affects my safety. You are granted privilige to drive on
public road and it is my opinion that if you use the cell phone
when driving, that privilige should be revoked just like it should
be revoked for drunk driving.
Your opinion is wrong. Is isn't different from mine, it's just WRONG period game set match.

Maybe I think it's wrong of you to be looking at women as it will lead you to crash your car--thus this makes whom you LOOK at my business. So, if you have the right to tell me not to use a phone, I have to right to regulate the movements of your head so that you aren't looking at women and crashing.

Maybe I think your eating while driving is something that should lead to revocation just like drunk driving. Are you going to allow me & the government to poke our heads into your vehicle and spy on you & see if you are eating or not?

You see, I say--no, not even if it DOES affect my safety, because while there is a "what you do affects me" rule of etiquette, there is also the thing of taking it too far. I submit that me poking my nose--or having the government do it for me--into your car to spy on you to see if you're eating or tweaking your radio or whatever--that is taking it too far.

And I still contend--those that want to do this for cell phones but not the other things are guilty of cell phone bigotry analogous to racism.
You and I have the right to disagree. Lets just use it and go back
to photo / Nikon related stuff.
Yes, now that I have spoken the truth to dispense your socialist stuff, let's by all means do that.

---



LRH
http://www.pbase.com/larrytucaz
 
Larry, I can only hope you have your blood pressure under control. You clain anyone who wants to ban cell phone use in cars is a bigot, you have even taken it a step further by saying that EVEN if your actions place others in harms way, EVEN if your actions can hurt other people, that trying to impinge your freedom makes someone:

1) A bigot
2) A communist
3) Un-American
4) A disgrace to society

This is laughingly absurd at best, and its also very bigoted, you have become that which you claim to despise. The term bigot (n : a prejudiced person who is intolerant of any opinions differing from his own)

is exactly what you are doing here. Now before you proclaim me a socialist let me say that I agree in the most part with your point, but fail to see the need to overdramatize it with all the histrionics, your sounding like a street corner preacher, or a true McCarthyite.
Take care, Ted
Anyone who wants to make it their business what I'm doing in my car
is a Communist and un-American--and a disgrace to society. Even if
my behavior affects you, yes EVEN if it affects you. You have to
draw the line somewhere--this "what you do affects me too" can only
go so far, as I'm about to illustrate.

Scientific data has shown time & time again that eating food is
just as much of a distraction as the phone is. So is fiddling with
your car stereo. If you don't believe that, ask the family of the
lady here whose grown daughter was killed while jogging because of
a van's driver distracted by--guess what--his car stereo. (Or would
that be VAN stereo?)

There was outrage, but I bet you dollars to D-SLRs that the outcry
would've been ten times that had the source of the driver's
distraction been a cellular phone. That's just bigotry plain and
simple. Me--I don't care if he was distracted by a phone, a radio,
or a jelly donut stuck to his face. He was DISTRACTED by his
BEHAVIOR, not by a phone or a damn donut.

But you NEEEEEVER hear of someone trying to ban eating in the car,
applying makeup, etc while driving. It's just cellular phones. This
is pure bigotry. If you don't believe me, notice all the "no cell
phones" signs in lobbies and restaurants. They never say anything
about any other source of noise, and I can tell you--I've heard
customers talking to each other IN THE FLESH who were just as noisy
as any cell phone chatter ever dared to be, but no one said a thing
to them--just the cell phone user.

That is bigotry plain and simple. If you support this, you're a bigot.

Besides that--since when is what I do in my car any of your
business EVEN IF IT AFFECTS YOU? That's right, EVEN IF IT AFFECTS
YOU, to some extent at some point, I say--it STILL isn't any of
your business.

Speaking of my illustration--I could make the same arguments as to
why, for instance, there should be spy cameras in every private
home with the government watching every thing you do. NOT the
public streets, I'm talking your private home. We're talking "The
Truman Show" for real.

Why? Because of all the high health insurance costs related to home
accidents. You DO realize that home accidents are one of THE major
causes of death & injuries, do you not? And to be sure when it
comes to other such Communist laws like helmet-laws for cyclists
and seat-belt usage laws--and add to that now making it your
business what I'm eating--medical costs have been used as the
justification for this Communist nonsense.

And if you are going to use medical expenses as justification for
butting your nose into my private business in what I'm doing in my
car, or what I'm eating, or whether or not I have a helmet on my
head while cycling--what's to stop the goverment from decreeing the
same thing with your home? To wit--since home accidents are so
prevalent and the applicable hospital costs so expensive, we're
going to spy on you and give you a $50 fine if you are caught, say,
putting in a new light bulb in your ceiling fan while standing on
an inverted 5-gallon bucket or wobbly bar-stool, when you are
required BY LAW to use an OSHA-approved safety ladder.

Even if you don't injure yourself, if you are spotted in your OWN
HOME doing such risky behavior, we're going to fine you--after all,
your foolishness is raising health care costs for everyone else.

Sorry folks, but if you're going to be a Communist and make it your
business what I'm doing in my car on such shallow specious
arguments, it is only consistent that we mandate spy cameras for
all private residences to make sure that fall you took wasn't
foolishness on your part from using a 5-gallon bucket as a
fake-stepladder.

And if you're going to say it's OK to regulate cellular phone usage
but not make-up usage or eating in the car, you're a bigot with a
special racist attitude of sorts towards cell phone users. It's
bigotry every bit as much as the redneck of the 50s calling
African-Americans that word that rhymes with "trigger."

---



LRH
http://www.pbase.com/larrytucaz
 
Larry, you really can't be this obtuse, I mean you have a valid argument in one respect, but to take it to the Nth degree is ludicrous and makes you look silly. It was not necessary to add in all the EVEN if it affects your safety, that is where you draw the line. Your OWN words were you have to draw the line somewhere, yes, we as a civilized world, have attemtped to draw the line in JUST that place, when you are endangering others, your privacy ceases to be YOURS. Its really quite simple. Personally I agree with you that I doubt its any less safe talking on a phone and driving as it is sipping a latte, adjusting your mirrors, changing the CD etc. But, you really have gone off the deep end here. In your zeal to salvage an argument that you cant win (because your wrong and a bigot) you have made the whole point of view look silly.

You say your privacy is yours and no one should be able to complain what you do in your home EVEN if it affects others. So, IF you are molesting your children, and beating your wife, that is nobody elses business, its your logic pal, now you have to live with it. In order to be consistant, and not look any more foolish than you already do, you now have no choice but to argue the pro-child molester wife beater side of this. Good luck my friend.
Ted
 
You failed to read my posts. I made it clear that there are no absolutes--for example, I own a home & it's my property, but that doesn't mean I can harbor terrorists or have slaves in my home and it's OK because "it's my property and if I own it I can do WHATEVER I want with it."

Or, since "it's my car and I do what I want with it, I can run people over with it--after all, it's my car." Of course I'd never advocate such a thing.

I clarified that in a previous post. There is a relative scale to these things, they are not absolute.

And, just as it's not absolute that "if I own it, I can do WHATEVER I want with it" it is also not absolute that "if your actions affect others, they are subject to regulation." It is subject to these same scale of relativity as "I can do what I want on my own property" or whatever is subject to.

Like I told the previous posters, using the "what you do affects me" routine you could argue that the law should mandate devices which insure that we're not off looking at the girls on the side of the road and thus crashing, or that radios should be required to be connected to your speedometer to know when you're moving and thus electronically disable the controls so you can't fiddle with your car stereo while driving. Or, now we should pull over people for eating in their car because it's a distraction that affects safety for others.

Even if you can establish "it affects me and it's in a public setting so it's my business", we have to at some point say--maybe so, but that's taking it too far. Otherwise we're going to wake up one day and not be so different from the way the former Soviet Union was.

Again, to me, these things are not absolute. You have to draw the line somewhere. To me, even if these measures did improve safety, even if you could make the case just as you supposedly could with cellular phones, that is a path I don't want to go down. I don't want to make every single "your actions affect others" a premise to stick my nose into someone else's business. It is NOT an absolute thing, just like "I own it I can do what I please with" is also not an absolute thing.

Where it concerns intoxicated drivers--and that have been proven to kill and in numbers MUCH MUCH greater than cellular phones or eating in the car do--I can see the point. Where it concerns how free speech doesn't make it OK to yell fire in a crowded theatre, I concede the point.

But you have to draw the line somewhere, at some point you've taken it too far.

And again--they're targeting cell phone users here. And it's not the first time a certain group gets singled out but not others. To wit--why are potential flyers so up-in-arms about the possibility of cell phone users being allowed to use their phones on the plane, but no one DARES complain about how aggravating crying children are on the plane--and how outrageous it is that parents won't control their children and the crying out of respect for others' quiet.

But--let someone pick up a cellular phone, and now we're up in arms. I say--if you're going to forbid cell phones on the planes due to the noise, I see keep the kids off the plane too; make the parents take planes designed only for them so the noise doesn't bother others.

Also--how come everyone complains day & night about loud car stereos, but they say nothing about those loud car mufflers which make noise and there's not even any element of musical entertainment involved? "Booming" car stereos get singled out, but not the mufflers.

Meanwhile, around here, the media makes a big deal about our Air Force Base and its noise--never mind the Air Force helps protect the freedoms of those who live here. Meanwhile, joe bloe down the road with loud barking dogs bothering the whole neighborhood--no one says anything about that. You tell me that isn't a double standard.

That's my point--(1) even if you can establish a link "your actions affect me" it is not an absolute anymore than "I own it I can do what I want with it" and (2)it's not right for cell phone users to be singled out when there are plenty of other driver distractions that are just as bad.

Oh, by the way--if I am beating my wife, is that no one else's business? Actually I do feel that way--it is my wife's place to complain about it, and if she does complain then by all means throw the book at me. Otherwise if she chooses to keep on living with me that way despite pleas from her friends to leave me, then at that point it's no one's business--not even the neighbor's, or the police's, I don't care what the law says.

---



LRH
http://www.pbase.com/larrytucaz
 
I wouldn't have replied to this post in this manner, if it were not for the poster who stated his disdain for the persons using their cellular phone.

That is the main thing I take issue with. Why is it just cellular phone users who are singled out? Why does no one say the same things about persons eating, fumbling in their glove box while driving, or looking at a hot chick and almost rear-ending the person in front of them, or applying makeup and becoming distracted, or talking too much to the person riding with them in the passenger's seat, or reading a map, or reading the paper--whatever?

Instead, we pick on the cellular phone users exclusively. That is the REAL problem I have with posts like these.

Again--it's the same way with other things. Why is it that our local media makes a big deal about the Air Force Base noise--and says nothing about the numerous times I've noticed persons with barking dogs which wake up an entire neighborhood? At least the Air Force Base serves a useful purpose--how necessary is a dog really? (If you want to protect your property, get a burglar alarm.) How come people complain about "booming" car stereos but not loud muffers? Why do restaurant managers throw a hissy fit over someone talking on their cell phone even if they're discreet doing it--but turn a deaf ear towards someone's brat throwing a fit and totally ruining the dining experience for everyone?

It is worth noting, too--here in the US, most states and places which have attempted to pass laws regarding using the phone while driving--those measures have failed. Maybe this is attributable to a powerful cellular phone lobby, but I think it's just as much because others here feel the same as me--taking the "if what you're doing affects me it's my business and the law's business" argument with this situation is taking it too far. Again, there aren't absolutes with this; there is a point at which you take things too far.

Like I said, you otherwise open the doors to all types of nosiness that would go even beyond this--and that is something most of us sensible Americans don't like the idea of.

And yes, I absolutely despise SUVs, and you could make the argument that a person driving one does affect me since SUVs are shown to pollute the air more than regular cars do, and since that excessive fuel consumption adds to this current crises. But I STILL wouldn't dare try & make it my business to have the government MAKE people drive something else. I recognize that as going too far.

---



LRH
http://www.pbase.com/larrytucaz
 
That's nice! I always wanted such setup (well, at least the part on
the right). Only one thing ... do you ever take road trips in it
(longer than 3-4 hours each way) with 2 adults, 2 kids and a dog?
And if you do -- how's that working out for you?
2 adults and 2 kids no problem. We drive down to the beach every summer with plenty of room for everything in the back.

No dog. I guess if I needed more room I would RENT a bigger car for the week.

I've never had a problem in the snow ... the traction control is great. Plus they always seem to plow the roads clear very quickly where I live.
I could sell this car for $5,000.00 more than I paid for it. Unbelievable!!!

Alan
 
I was with you until the last paragraph. I'm glad you were able to clarify your point somewhat as it concerns personal property and privacy. I will have to disagree with you on the wife beating part, I just can't abide that even if your wife is dumb enough, scared enough or traumatized enough to stay with you. There are laws for reasons, beating your wife is against the law, .... period, simply because your wife is too afraid to press charges, it doesn't make it miraculously legal. To argue any other side would be the same as arguing that if I break a law, but the victim was unwilling to press charges, then I cannot be found guilty. With that logic, armed robbers would only need to intimidate their victims into not pressing charges in order to get away with it. Or worse, simply kill the victim so that no one can complain later. If you break a law, such as beating your wife, society should be allowed to pass judgement on you, even if your wife doesn't want to.

We have strayed far from photography with this thread so we should likely just let it die, you are entitled to your opinions, even if unpopular or just wrong, as am I. For the record, I have a cell phone and occasionally even use it in the car, I also have been known to eat and drive, fiddle with the stereo and drive, etc. I really have no desire to see even further restrictions placed on people in order to make it so that one person feels safer. I abhor political correctness, I hate the notion that we need to limit freedom in order to make a certain segment of the poulation feel better, I am strongly opposed to the so called "Patriot Act", in fact even the name of it is Orwellian doublespeak. The so called "conservatives" running this country now are neither conservative or patriots and that doesn't make me a communist, un-american, or anything other than an American with an opinion and a vote.
Take care, Ted
 
I am glad we straightened this out somewhat, and yeah--we've strayed from photography somewhat so it is time to let this die. Let me, if I may, clarify something quickly, I will try & keep it breif--and civil.

To wit:
If you break a law, such as beating your wife, society should be allowed > to pass judgement on you, even if your wife doesn't want to.
I respectfully, and I mean respectfully, disagree. The reason--I am married, and no I DO NOT beat my wife obviously, and like most persons I consider such an act totally wrong and amorale. I agree with NO such actions for a man to do.

But, the thing is, I have talked to many a woman who was actually quite level-headed for the most part, they admitted to past relationships with men who beat them, and they actually didn't consider it a big deal. They were not "rescued" from that situation and made it clear--at that time back then & more recently talking to me about it--that they were NOT interested in being "rescued," they knew full well the situation and wanted to remain.

Now, if you're thinking "that's not logical thinking on their part," hey--I AGREE with you. I couldn't agree with you more. But, deplorable a situation that might be, that is THEIR choice to remain in it if they choose. I can assure you--these women made it clear it was NOT a case, was NOT a case of them being "afraid" to leave, or that their men threatened to kill them or whatever if they reported the abuse. It was totally consensual.

And as sick as that arrangement might be, I say--if she wants to remain in that situation, I am inteferring in affairs that don't concern me if I were to report the man to the police against the woman's wishes.

But moreover, here in Arizona, they've gone too far. It's to the point now that if someone breaks something in their house--they are NOT throwing objects at their spouse, they may just (say) smash a drinking glass in the sink and yell--if they do such a thing, someone calls the police and they see this, automatically the glass-breaker goes to jail and is guaranteed a domestic violence conviction--even though he NEVER threatened his wife, even though his wife may strongly assert that she does NOT want to press charges because no abuse occured, and even though she as his wife ought to know her husband and his tendencies better than the police, and even though the husband DID NOT threaten the wife with any form of retaliation.

Never mind--the government decides FOR HER, and does so in a way she does not want, and condemns this man as a wife-beater when all he did was break a 10c drinking glass in the sink.

This actually happens. This results in men who are NOT wife-beaters getting "domestic violence, criminal damage" convictions on their records, records even their wives do NOT want, and convictions which are totally baseless in their accuracy.

You have many who advocate this, out of the desire to rescue women who ARE being abused but are too frightened to speak for themselves. That is unfortunate, and such women should be encouraged to speak up--but this unfortunate reality DOES NOT make it OK for the government to butt its nose into affairs in which its help is NOT wanted or desired.

Or--if you say 'well any man who breaks a drinking glass is apt to turn into a wife-beater'--I'm sorry, but I'm not into justice "Minority Report" style--that is, sentencing them for a FUTURE crime they haven't even committed. That would be the mentality here--punish them for domestic violence even if that isn't what happened, because that's what you're LIKELY to do.

I say--sure, if it is the case that men who break drinking glasses in the sink often turn into wife-beaters, it is up to him & his wife to take the inititiave and get help, not the role of government to butt into a private family matter that is NO ONE'S BUSINESS under the "Minority Report" guise.

Thanks for your discussion, it looks like we might finally be letting this settle-down with some civility. I sincerely mean no disrespect.

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LRH
http://www.pbase.com/larrytucaz
 

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