D 2 late

GammaX

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I am one of the few full-time working professionals still shooting Nikon and I must say that the d2x was an admirable attempt at shoring up the Nikon base. Unfortunately, most professionals have made the switch and Nikon is fast becoming the choice of amateurs and price-conscious consumers.

At every venue I am overwhelmed by the white lenses. I work in NYC and almost every major agency has switched, first because of the 1d/1ds and the terrific system(IS, 8fps etc) then the mk2 was the nail in the coffin. Getty, NY times, ap, us news, time.....

i have 2 d2h's and as a pro the limitations of this camera are frustratingly clear. low megapixel, hi noise if you shoot above 640. working at night is a nightmare especially if you accidentally underexpose 1/3 stop.

Please comment if you are a full-time working professional, not a software engineer who shoots birds as a hobby and loves the noise characteristics of the d2h.
 
Please comment if you are a full-time working professional, not a
software engineer who shoots birds as a hobby and loves the noise
characteristics of the d2h.
I guess I'm not suppose to comment but I had to... It seems to me that if you switch to Canon now, it will leave a D2X for me. If you're looking for working professionals, you might want to check out http://www.robgalbraith.com/bins/index.asp as there are usually more working professionals over there. But if you're simply going to post that you're going to switch, don't bother, they'll just tell you to switch already and get over it.

--
Tony

http://homepage.mac.com/a5m http://www.pbase.com/a5m
 
I am also one of the few. I have a love hate with my D2h. Was waiting for the next camera to come out in hopes that it would cure the ills of the H. Although I am very excited about the X, it's low iso might make night and indoor shooting again difficult. As for the CMOS, all i have really heard is that it is cheeper and haven't heard anything about better QUALITY yet. I am not going to change Because each company has it's problems. It seems as if they teeter-totter as to when the complaints come out. And I sure have given my share of complaints. Photography has not really changed in the past 150 years as it has in the last 10. I feel it is important to voice problems in this new era so they can get fixed. But agin I am not going to change. Nikon has gone out of their way to fix problems with me and have replaced when they couldn't fix. so for that alone I'm sticking with what i got. By the way I shoot about 150 day a year and another 80 or so days acumulated doing Photoshoping and uploading. All for publications (ahhhh no birds) I hope this will let me into the Pro club.
I am one of the few full-time working professionals still shooting
Nikon and I must say that the d2x was an admirable attempt at
shoring up the Nikon base. Unfortunately, most professionals have
made the switch and Nikon is fast becoming the choice of amateurs
and price-conscious consumers.

At every venue I am overwhelmed by the white lenses. I work in NYC
and almost every major agency has switched, first because of the
1d/1ds and the terrific system(IS, 8fps etc) then the mk2 was the
nail in the coffin. Getty, NY times, ap, us news, time.....

i have 2 d2h's and as a pro the limitations of this camera are
frustratingly clear. low megapixel, hi noise if you shoot above
640. working at night is a nightmare especially if you
accidentally underexpose 1/3 stop.

Please comment if you are a full-time working professional, not a
software engineer who shoots birds as a hobby and loves the noise
characteristics of the d2h.
 
Hi Gammax, I am a profesional photographer here in Spain, and one of the things I do is sports photography for MARCA and I have to agree with you about the noise of the D2h. I think is a great body and performs well, but when you open the file in the computer and see the noise it is frustrating, and more when your team mate that is just next to you (Canon shooter) opens the same picture and it is almost noise free and almost grainless.

I hope the new D2x performs well, actually some friends from the EFE agency tried it out and they say it work great but I guess we will have to wait.

I also hope that the umor of a replacement chip for the d2h for a few Euros it is tru.

Sorry about my english
--
Diego G. Souto
 
I am one of the few full-time working professionals still shooting
Nikon and I must say that the d2x was an admirable attempt at
shoring up the Nikon base. Unfortunately, most professionals have
made the switch and Nikon is fast becoming the choice of amateurs
and price-conscious consumers.

At every venue I am overwhelmed by the white lenses. I work in NYC
and almost every major agency has switched, first because of the
1d/1ds and the terrific system(IS, 8fps etc) then the mk2 was the
nail in the coffin. Getty, NY times, ap, us news, time.....

i have 2 d2h's and as a pro the limitations of this camera are
frustratingly clear. low megapixel, hi noise if you shoot above
640. working at night is a nightmare especially if you
accidentally underexpose 1/3 stop.

Please comment if you are a full-time working professional, not a
software engineer who shoots birds as a hobby and loves the noise
characteristics of the d2h.
Hasn't this horse been ridden to death by now? Is there really anything new to add here? Put your Nikon gear up for sale on ebay, buy a 1DMkII and get on with your life...

oh sorry, I am not a pro, nor am I a software engineer, just an old retired semiconductor hardware engineer who likes to take pictures of old cars...
--
Conrad
---------------------------------------------------
You Can Never Have Too Many Toys!
 
I am one of the few full-time working professionals still shooting
Nikon and I must say that the d2x was an admirable attempt at
shoring up the Nikon base. Unfortunately, most professionals have
made the switch and Nikon is fast becoming the choice of amateurs
and price-conscious consumers.

At every venue I am overwhelmed by the white lenses. I work in NYC
and almost every major agency has switched, first because of the
1d/1ds and the terrific system(IS, 8fps etc) then the mk2 was the
nail in the coffin. Getty, NY times, ap, us news, time.....

i have 2 d2h's and as a pro the limitations of this camera are
frustratingly clear. low megapixel, hi noise if you shoot above
640. working at night is a nightmare especially if you
accidentally underexpose 1/3 stop.
If I were you, I'd switch to Canon. Seriously.

Otherwise, I think the importance of the professional market to Nikon's bottom line is overestimated. At least, it is by professional photographers IMHO.

--
H McCollister
 
And what have left to be said is that I also pray everyday for any kind of improvable for the color and the noise in this camera.

All what the last firmware update was "cosmetic", nothing to improve the file output!

... and now I will start to get answers here like: learn to use it, be a real photographer, you have to know how to post processing, and many other responds.
I really like to work with the D2H and really do not like the Canon bodies.

I use it under 400iso while with my D1X, 3 years older model, I shoot at 800iso with not any hesitations!
i have 2 d2h's and as a pro the limitations of this camera are
frustratingly clear. low megapixel, hi noise if you shoot above
640. working at night is a nightmare especially if you
accidentally underexpose 1/3 stop.

Please comment if you are a full-time working professional, not a
software engineer who shoots birds as a hobby and loves the noise
characteristics of the d2h.
--
Hadari
http://www.hadari.com
 
IH,

I have D1x, D100, D2h. I have shot with all Nikon digital and like the d2h but image quality is a joke. I am worried d2x will have similar characteristics. Remember what they said about the d2h before it was released! I know many professionals who were angry the camera didn't deliver. Most switched and those who stayed are really pinning their hopes on the d2x. As the old saying goes "Fool me once, shame on..."

As for any improvement in noise and color, well people using the d1 had the same hope.
i have 2 d2h's and as a pro the limitations of this camera are
frustratingly clear. low megapixel, hi noise if you shoot above
640. working at night is a nightmare especially if you
accidentally underexpose 1/3 stop.

Please comment if you are a full-time working professional, not a
software engineer who shoots birds as a hobby and loves the noise
characteristics of the d2h.
--
Hadari
http://www.hadari.com
 
I own two D2H and shoot maybe three times a week for the newspaper. The rest of the time I shoot in the studio.

The D2H makes our jobs harder, there is no question about it. The lowlight performance is awful. Concerts at smaller venues/bars are particularly painful. Night spot news is very difficult. Poorly lit high school sports stadiums are difficult. If I shot this kind of stuff on a regular basis, I would have been forced to move to a Canon MkII a long time ago.

I get by with my D2H because I'm very good at photoshop and can clean up images fairly quickly. If I was a shooter that did not have a great deal of post-production skill/experience, the D2H would be insanely frustrating. Nikon might as well bundle Photoshop CS with the D2H, because you won't be able to get consistently good images from the camera without it. (I say this knowing that the above sentence will now be quoted a dozen times with "ducks-right-out-of-the-camera" samples showing how this is not true.)

I absolutely hate Canon ergonomics. I also don't like the soft images I see coming out of their bodies. (I say this knowing that the above sentence will now be quoted a dozen times with "ducks-right-out-of-the-camera" samples showing how this is also not true.) I can compensate for the softness in photoshop, but the ergo is something that I've tried and failed to get used to.

But I am becoming resigned to the fact that I will probably have to switch to Canon sometime in the next year or so. The D2X, although promising, does not fix Nikon's lineup. It fills a big hole that has existed for nearly two years. The switchable 1.5/2x thing is a cute trick, but with a rated top-end speed of ISO 800, the D2X will not fill the needs of photojournalists. For most of my indoor PJ assignments, I start at ISO 800. I desperately need a clean 1600. I am hopeful that Nikon will do some sort of sensor upgrade on the D2H, but I have no knowledge of this and it's only wishful thinking.

I've done the math many times on what a switch to Canon would cost me. The number comes in somewhere between $10,000 and $15,000, depending on how optimistic I am about the value of my used gear. The cost includes replacing three Nikon bodies (2 D2H, 1 D100) with Canon equivalents (2 MkII, 1 Rebel OR 1DS), and swapping out the lenses. I'm guessing that this is a fairly consistent number for most shooters at my level.

In 2005 I am going to have to spend somewhere between $5,000 and $10,000 on DSLR bodies. If I stay with Nikon, I will spend $5,000 on a D2X, and $1,000 - $2,000 on a sensor upgrade for my D2H's if Nikon is wise enough to go this route. If I go with Canon, I spend $10,000 and can be shooting at 8MP minimum all the way across the board, with 11MP in the studio...more if I invest in whatever the 1DSmkII will be.

Wow, it's been awhile since I went through the math again, and it surprises me how much easier the decision to make this switch is getting. At this point, without an announced or even rumored sensor upgrade for the D2H, it makes more sense to switch to Canon in 2005.

I can't tell you how much I hate this.

Dave
I am one of the few full-time working professionals still shooting
Nikon and I must say that the d2x was an admirable attempt at
shoring up the Nikon base. Unfortunately, most professionals have
made the switch and Nikon is fast becoming the choice of amateurs
and price-conscious consumers.

At every venue I am overwhelmed by the white lenses. I work in NYC
and almost every major agency has switched, first because of the
1d/1ds and the terrific system(IS, 8fps etc) then the mk2 was the
nail in the coffin. Getty, NY times, ap, us news, time.....

i have 2 d2h's and as a pro the limitations of this camera are
frustratingly clear. low megapixel, hi noise if you shoot above
640. working at night is a nightmare especially if you
accidentally underexpose 1/3 stop.

Please comment if you are a full-time working professional, not a
software engineer who shoots birds as a hobby and loves the noise
characteristics of the d2h.
 
I am a happy D2H'r, for reasons I won't bother listing. I am also a person who has been educated by some very good folks here as to where the weaknesses lie. Those weaknesses don't affect me, as what I shoot seems to fit the D2H's "sweet-spots". I just say this to let the three of you know that I do see that there are some things this camera isn't "great" at.

Now, to my very serious for all three of you. I have heard these complaints about Nikon in general and the D2H in particular for several years now, often when Canon announces some new gear. I have also heard, from many professionals here and elsewhere, that you, unlike me, have a very short ROI on your equipment purchases, and that sometimes that can be a matter of just a few jobs. I also, for Dave, completely understand the dislike that some have of Canon ergonomics. That is why I didn't switch to Canon 35mm when I moved to AF from my Olympus OM system.

So, given all of that background, what I don't understand is why any of you would even hesitate to move to Canon. With the way Nikon equipment sells on eBay I think you could expect to recover 70-80% of your sunk cost, which goes a long way to buying the new system. Given that math, your ROI would be quite short. If I were in your positions that is exactly what I would do. I mean, if you were a carpenter would you continue to use the wrong tool? Would you hang around complaining how your current "tool manufacturer" builds sub-standard tools? I rather doubt it.

Sorry, Gamma, for ignoring your request for "full-time-pro" responses only, but this is something that I have often wondered about and I have never gotten an answer to, although I have often asked. Perhaps you should ask this same question on the "Pro" board as well. It would be interesting to see if you get a whole different tone and slant on your question.
I am one of the few full-time working professionals still shooting
Nikon and I must say that the d2x was an admirable attempt at
shoring up the Nikon base. Unfortunately, most professionals have
made the switch and Nikon is fast becoming the choice of amateurs
and price-conscious consumers.

At every venue I am overwhelmed by the white lenses. I work in NYC
and almost every major agency has switched, first because of the
1d/1ds and the terrific system(IS, 8fps etc) then the mk2 was the
nail in the coffin. Getty, NY times, ap, us news, time.....

i have 2 d2h's and as a pro the limitations of this camera are
frustratingly clear. low megapixel, hi noise if you shoot above
640. working at night is a nightmare especially if you
accidentally underexpose 1/3 stop.

Please comment if you are a full-time working professional, not a
software engineer who shoots birds as a hobby and loves the noise
characteristics of the d2h.
--
Bill Dewey
http://www.deweydrive.com
 
Just thought that I would say this paragraph is incredibly presumptious of you on such a public forum and is guaranteed to get you the opposite result. As well as being a "trolling" sign. There is a place for "Pro Only" type questions on dpreview as well as many of the other Pro oriented and moderated forums, such as the Galbraith site. Of course on many of those forums "baiting" is not well tolerated. As dpreview is a public, open and unmoderated forum, you are going to get whatever you get here.

You can see my other reply for "technical" comments and questions.

GammaX wrote:
SNIP
Please comment if you are a full-time working professional, not a
software engineer who shoots birds as a hobby and loves the noise
characteristics of the d2h.
--
Bill Dewey
http://www.deweydrive.com
 
Bill, it's a very good question and I don't take it as trolling. But the answer isn't a simple ROI calculation, or as you said it would make perfect sense to have switched long ago. Believe me, I wish it were as easy as right tool/wrong tool/good tool/bad tool.

I've never lost a job because I was shooting with Nikon equipment. But I don't shoot sports, and I don't shoot stock photography. The newspaper that I shoot for is an all-Nikon shop, so they are comfortable with what comes out of my D2H's. But if I were a serious sports shooter trying to make a name for myself, or if I was regularly submitting to agencies like Getty, there's really no question. I'd be shooting Canon. There is a lot that goes into making a photograph, and you won't get any sales if you don't have the right moment. But in a typical sports or news-for-agency setup, you're shoulder to shoulder with a bunch of other shooters who will be sending in images from the same event and in many cases from the same shooting position.

The editor at Getty or Wireimage might get fifty different images of a key moment at a game. They look for the best angle/timing...that's a given. In some cases a single image might rise to the top, but many times there will still be four or five shots of the key moment, all from great angles. Now how does the editor choose? They are looking at five images, side by side, in photo mechanic. Three are MkII shots at ISO1600 with silky smooth shadows and nice colors at 3500 pixels wide. Two are D2H shots at ISO1600 which, although artfully retouched, still have the slightly funky colors and a noisy blue channel, and is 30% smaller at 2400 pixels wide. If the moment is not unique, why on earth would the editor choose the D2H shots? It is for this reason that you saw so many white lenses at the Olympics, or at the RNC/DNC conventions. It's very competitive.

For me, the choice is more difficult right now. My clients are happy with my work. But in 2005 I want to start moving into stock photography. I can't do that with the tools I have now, so I have to invest in some new gear. I can go with a D2X, but that essentially locks me into Nikon for another year. Or I can go with Canon, and suffer through the painful transition.

To be honest, it wasn't until this thread that I really came to the conclusion that a switch to Canon makes sense. Maybe it was the D2X that did it for me, I don't know. But for me, the time to move is going to be soon. About the only thing at this point that could sway me is if Nikon announced an upgrade to the D2H. That would be worth consideration.

Dave
I am a happy D2H'r, for reasons I won't bother listing. I am also
a person who has been educated by some very good folks here as to
where the weaknesses lie. Those weaknesses don't affect me, as
what I shoot seems to fit the D2H's "sweet-spots". I just say this
to let the three of you know that I do see that there are some
things this camera isn't "great" at.

Now, to my very serious for all three of you. I have heard these
complaints about Nikon in general and the D2H in particular for
several years now, often when Canon announces some new gear. I
have also heard, from many professionals here and elsewhere, that
you, unlike me, have a very short ROI on your equipment purchases,
and that sometimes that can be a matter of just a few jobs. I
also, for Dave, completely understand the dislike that some have of
Canon ergonomics. That is why I didn't switch to Canon 35mm when I
moved to AF from my Olympus OM system.

So, given all of that background, what I don't understand is why
any of you would even hesitate to move to Canon. With the way
Nikon equipment sells on eBay I think you could expect to recover
70-80% of your sunk cost, which goes a long way to buying the new
system. Given that math, your ROI would be quite short. If I were
in your positions that is exactly what I would do. I mean, if you
were a carpenter would you continue to use the wrong tool? Would
you hang around complaining how your current "tool manufacturer"
builds sub-standard tools? I rather doubt it.

Sorry, Gamma, for ignoring your request for "full-time-pro"
responses only, but this is something that I have often wondered
about and I have never gotten an answer to, although I have often
asked. Perhaps you should ask this same question on the "Pro"
board as well. It would be interesting to see if you get a whole
different tone and slant on your question.
 
Thanks, this makes incredibly good sense to me. This is the first time that anyone has taken the trouble to explain to me how the agencies, which I obviously don't deal with at this time, do there business. If I am understanding you correctly then, that even if the D2H image "looked" exactly as good, very subjective of course, at exactly the same angle/moment/etc., the D2H image would "lose" simply because of file size, regardless of whether of not that really makes a difference. On the other hand, if the D2H image had captured that "perfect moment" where nothing else did, the D2H image would be the one chosen.

Have I got that right? It does make perfect sense to me, and sometimes, even if we don't like it, things such as "number of MP's" do matter.

Thanks for the very reasoned reply and one more step in my education.

As to trolling, every question I ever ask, well almost because once in a while my "reptilian brain" does take over :-), is asked with the intent of trying to understand. I have watched your postings long enough to have faith in what you say and to have faith that you post "in good faith", if that makes any sense at all.

Good luck in your decision, it sure isn't an easy one.
Bill, it's a very good question and I don't take it as trolling.
But the answer isn't a simple ROI calculation, or as you said it
would make perfect sense to have switched long ago. Believe me, I
wish it were as easy as right tool/wrong tool/good tool/bad tool.
SNIP
--
Bill Dewey
http://www.deweydrive.com
 
And I don't think it's constructive to critize him for speaking THE TRUTH. Nikon's slipping away fast. It's hard to justify owning it anymore. I've decided to switch and go Leica, but Canon's just as viable an option.

al
 

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