Panasonic has given its DC-S1 and DC-S1H full-frame mirrorless cameras some big improvements via recent firmware updates. For example, the S1 now shares many video features with the S1H, including 6K Raw recording. Chris and Jordan take a look at what's been added and how the two cameras compare in 2021.
Thankjs for a great video! Could you pls do a comparison between the Nikon Z6II and the S1? I would love to see how they compare both for video and stills!
Both Panasonic S5 and Sigma fp are now around $1700. Unfortunately, both have pros and cons which cannot be avoided.
S5 can output tiny crop raw video which is one of the proper options. You can use better oversampling algorithms with your computer to produce a more pristine 4K video or you can crop it for better composition. The bad thing is that S5 also requires an external recorder for raw video. That means about $700 investment. Panasonic does not give lossless CinemaDNG, but instead lossy Prores. This will eat some of the 5.9K glory. IBIS can interfere gimbal usage in some cases even when disabled. That again will eat away 5.9K glory, if there is micro jittering or somethin weird when the sensor is not fixed.
Sigma fp costs the same as discounted S5, but Sigma 4K raw is pixel-binned instead 5.9K which will produce additional aliasing. Sigma does not have IBIS which makes it ideal for gimbal and lossless CinemaDNG keeps video quality. It does not need external recorder!
Because CinemaDNG is a bloated file type that should be avoided. Especially when compression has come such a long way. If this was 2012 i would agree with ya, but I would rather have Braw instead of CinemaDNG
Anyone should ask him-/herself: do we want free improvements from manufactures?
If yes, then firmware updates should be commended, and not portrayed as some sort of plots or conspiracies.
Fuji appears to be the only brand immune to negative spins. They can release a firmware update that turns a camera into arguably a new model, and that's Kaizen, a good thing... And IT IS. I wish other brands received the same treatment.
Crippled on purposed? Perhaps there was not a need given the current market, (they had the s1h for that).... Markets evolve, customer needs change, they had a clear product segmentation, why spend resources in things that were not needed at the current time?
Now every system has raw, so the only way to stay competitive is by bringing new features, at least be happy they didn't just came out with a new body as many other manufacturers do, but made relevant an already existing system...that speaks highly of a company, taking care of their current customer base. Much better then Sony, Nikon and Canon...
It's unfair simply to say Camera Model xyz is being cripped, Rich. Furtherway, Firmware development easily costs the brand millions, whereas the company don't get something into return, and it must R&D, FW beta-tests, etc. See it under this aspect.
Fact is, Cameras are being scheduled being released on month xy, and when some features are not being avialable, or -stable, etc....the brands release them later, afterwards, at no extra cost, which is a great service, some are being better, more Customer-friendly, than other brands, in this regard.
But it's nonsense to read Camera xyz is being "crippled" straight from the beginning, or Firmware v1.0, usually. Also, a company can't test for anything, all possible or impossible bugs, so it's very nice, to see some brands doing the customer a favor, and delivering over years continuously Firmware Updates, as Service.
/edit each gear does have (hardware) limitations, but some brands are getting the most out of it, over time.
It's not costing Panasonic 'millions of dollars' to enable 6k recording lmao. These cameras closely share R&D. Come on guys, you damn well know they purposely left of this off from the get go to protect the S1H....at the very least this would have been added as a firmware update in 2019. Even the 15 min record time limit which you can't disable again is a cripple feature in case you decide to record in 105 degree temps.
Actually about 15 years. Maybe Panasonic needs needs some new product owner and scrum masters to prioritize this work though I guarantee you some of these major features were purposely left off for years. If you actually buy into the high res video recording modes were left off because of firmware development was too difficult I have a bridge to sell you. All of the cameras share R&D.
Any release needs extensive testing... thats cost. Also given the market needs 6k and raw recording was definitly not at the top of the priorities before.
DUH!!! What do you think the filmmaker V-log upgrade is for? I never would have guess that from a company that has historically had lots of paid firmware updates to unlock features.
"Also given the market needs 6k and raw recording was definitely not at the top of the priorities before."
6K was a priority then, thats why the S1H had it. There's nothing magical about the 6k mode between the cameras. Both cameras largely have the same internals except for the cooling which isn't an issue and even today they are crippling that mode with 15 mins because of a bogus "protect the 1% of users who shoot in death valley for extended times".
Comments like this are why manufacturers don't even bother most of the time. Instead of getting commended on one of the biggest firmware updates to a camera ever released, your pissy you didn't get these features earlier. If it was ANY other manufacturer it would be a new camera release instead of a firmware update. Also no I don't think they ever would have considered putting these features in this camera when it was originally released. The only reason this happened is the S5 came out and they wanted to give something to early S1 adopters, because they complained that the differences between the two cameras was not enough. They could have crippled the S5, instead they decided to upgrade the S1.
@geoffcbassett Hopefully comments like this actually get the full capabilities of the camera when you buy it, not years later on. If you're grateful for them unlocking what the camera is actually capable of 2 years later then you have low standards.
(somewhat) unrelated to the review, but do I see a frozen lake in the background?? I don't know when the clips were shot but it sure does seem it's much colder at Calgary than I thought...
It has been repeated a gazillion times: Not everybody wants or nees a flippy screen; it's mostly very vocal YouTubers who want that. I very much prefer the tilting one that the S1 has; it's so much more practical for stills rather than a screen always sticking out on the left of the camera.
I’m still waiting for a significant GH5S firmware update. And all these updates are giving me a sense of entitlement.
Do you hear me, Panasonic? If I don’t get some sort of ‘Raw’ output over HDMI I’m going to throw myself under the wheels of a passing skateboard, on your heads be it.
Isn't there a hardware/processing limitation though? Considering it's a 3 years old camera with a four years old hardware (I believe it has the same processor as the GH5). Even if there's no limitation I think they'll save every new feature for the upcoming GH6.
I think the G9 has an updated processor over the GH5 (allegedly also a newer 20MP sensor, or so my friend at Panasonic says) as they insist some of the more interesting focus stuff can't be back-ported to the GH5 (which I own), alas...
I'm sure they do wonder. I don't think the S1/S1R will have a direct successor. Although we don't have the numbers, but I'm pretty sure the S5 was a bigger hit, than those two. And that's because of the price and size. I think they'll have an S1H successor: a fully professional video beast and we can the more compact S5's line to continue: probably with less crippling: full size HDMI, proper EVF. I don't expect a high res successor as hardly any buyers for Lumix cameras for photo only. That's just my bet of course.
I sincerely hope that is not the case, as they are just incredible and feature packed cameras. It is a real shame the S1R was not more of a hit.
I personally suspect they will at least try one more generation, now that the lens ecosystem has been built out so much. There are more L-mount lens options than Canon or Nikon. Sony and Canon shooters have little reason to switch but they could probably poach some Nikon shooters and MFT migrators.
CTMR as a lot of nikon DSLR users was not going over the Z as the AF was not up to scratch thier are 2 hopes they will embrace DFD AF ......no hope and Bob hope
I know DFD gets a bad rap on YouTube but having owned a Z7 and now owning an SL2 and A7RIV I can tell you that although it is not Sony level, the Panasonic contrast-detect AF system smokes Nikon’s. For a stills shooter it is more than adequate unless you are doing BIF or sports, and then I think you need to look at Canon or Sony. For something like a wedding, event, portraiture - there are zero issues with the Panasonic AF and unlike the Z7 it is dead accurate every time it tells you it is locked on.
Most people gravitating to an S-series for video are wanting to pull their own focus, but that aside it is a legitimate complaint. That is why I was specifying stills shooting.
Then again, the tracking is still superior to Nikon and Fujifilm. It just is not Canon/Sony level.
Because that's the only way where the focus would be usable, don't get me wrong, manual focus has its place in video, far more than in photos but its nice to do solo shoots without needing a focus puller for run and gun stuff.
Hey Canon, learn from Panasonic, there is more difference between S1 when it was released and S1 now than between M50 and M50 MK2... And Panasonic doesn't charge you for this upgrade...
For DPAF (Canon) or PDAF (Sony, Oly, etc.) you need a sensor designed for it (pixels have to block light incoming from certain directions, I think everyone assumes the Panny sensors don't have that feature). I think Panny went DFD partly as it avoided patterning issues you get with PDAF (but not DPAF) in some lighting conditions, and you have to guesstimate the data at the PDAF pixels...
(1) In DPAF you don't get the image patterning issues you get with PDAF in some conditions
(2) In DPAF you can use AF pixels for imaging (kinda important as they are all AF pixels) while in PDAF you don't, so have to make them up from the surrounding pixels.
Francis85 the batteries are flat in your sarcasm meter i have a dream ....i dont think cannon can learn anything from panny ....that why canon has about 50% market share and penny has 2%...its panny that need the lessans
Dave8 - A man burning the EU flag - Is not to be taken seriously. Actually it is the sign of being right winger who approves violence and suppression. An activist who thinks that violence is allowed to reach his personal goals of overturning democracy.
The UK is having its largest longterm economic downturn in decades and it is to be expected it will at least last a decade possibly even two according to many economists. Due to lost trust in leadership. A country that currently faces tremendous shortages on supplies and goods. And with the attitude the UK is having today there is no possibility that an agreement with your largest and most important trade partner the EU will be made possible. Good grievance your country is in for big troubles the coming years. But at least you have been fooled to think you are 'free' now.
francis85 you make a lot of assumptions with just a avatar and could not be further from the truth.. yes i lean to the right so do most of my friends ...you seem to believe the mainstream media narrative that anyone that has a slightly right wing view is a nasty nationalist with Nazi overtones ..i don't approve of violence and my personal goal was to restore democracy by leaving the EU...we do not have shortages in the UK that anyone has noticed ..taking of shortiges hows the EU doing with its vaccine program ..we have almost vaccinated 3 times as many folk with well over 1/2 vaccinated but the EU is now spitting out its dummy about that..... you must be believing forecasts about the UK economy about it crashing ever since the referendum that never came true..the IMF forecast for growth in 2021 puts the UK at 5.3% and the EU at 4.4%......any dips in the economy in the EU or UK are more likely because of covid not brexit anyway what's this got to do with pannys crap AF?
You lean a little more to the right than you think you are. Of course you won't call yourself an right wing extremist. Nobody who is one will ever admit.
No you don't have shortages of the vaccin, because the UK basically stole them from the EU. The UK took 30 million vaccinces from the wharehouse in Belgium two weeks before your crooked government (a populist) agreed to a BREXIT deal. They were literally flown out of Belgium in great hurry before the EU noticed what actually went on.
I am sure this faul play is going to hit your governement hard on the nose and will get right into your face when it comes to a final trade agreements that still have to be set. Your supply shortage will keep ongoing for a long time and prices of consumer products and food in your country will rise.
Who cares we don't get your fish or your cars. You are more dependent upon Europe than Europe is dependent from the UK. No wonder Schotland wants to leave. The UK has nothing to offer to Europe.
LOL you make it sound like the SAS went in one night in a covert operation and steal it ,,,NO the simple crucks of the matter was we ordered a 100 million doses of vaccine 3 month before the EU did as we was not arguing amongst ourselves about price and wether the the vaccine manufacturers will be libel if the vaccine had bad side effects... so the 1st batch was made for us because we ordered it and the EU did not.... now they are blaming everybody but themselves also the 1st batch had much higher yield than following batchers ...its the EU that's playing dirty thinking about stopping bought and paid for vaccine coming to the UK.. if they do that they are stealing it I dont no how you can tell i am right wing extremist...can you tell me what a right wing extremist is ????
I don't need to tell you unless you are illiterate. Which you seem not to be as you can still manage to operate a keyboard as a warrior.
May you not die of Tromboses after your first shot with Astra Zeneca. It seems to happen very regular as a side effect, or 1 in 100.00. Which is basically the same risk as dying of Covid19 when you are under 60.
i won't be having a covid jab..i am not anti vaccine but i think the risk from a vaccine that noway can be fully tested and inside info i have from someone i trust but cannot possibly divulge who they are and what they do..i think the old or folk with underlying medical condition should have it ..however the way thing are going i may not have any choice as may not be able to work or travel without a covid passport ...i have just googled far right extremist and i definitely are not one far from it...but if you think i am maybe i am in the center or center right and its you that is a far left extremist ..what are your thoughts on Antifa and the marxist ideology of BLM ...do you think stalin was a nice bloke..
Not that it matters photography-wise, but as the AZ vaccine was developed in the U.K. with U.K Govt. help they signed contracts that gave them first dibs on the vaccines, wherever made.
This means the firm is required to ship certain quantities of vaccine to the U.K. from other countries where they manufacture it (EU, India, etc.).
The E.U. didn't get the whole "us first" thing and signed "best effort" contracts and have exported many millions of E.U. manufactured doses around the World, including a lot to the U.K.
Personally (U.K. resident who has had one shot of AZ) I disapprove as we shouldn't grab vaccines from countries in worse positions than ourselves. But getting the U.K. produced doses out there has worked well. The shops and pubs are now open...
The U.K. and U.S. have exported no doses (although the U.S. may "lend" some AZ doses to Mexico/Canada, as it isn't approved in the U.S. yet) so no moral high ground there.
P.S. I do get very depressed about the sheer volume of people who don't believe in science and will believe some random nobody (claiming to be an "expert", or that the "experts" are just "clever people telling you what to think". and you should believe them instead) saying Bill Gates is micro-chipping them via vaccines... Like everyone doesn't already carry a device broadcasting their position to the World... (Even if you use a burner, or a VPN, you still have browser/e-mail signatures that allow your identification...)
After the S5's arrival the S1 was in a weird position, as the cheaper S5 was a more capable video camera. I'm glad that Panasonic fixed that with this firmware. The lineup makes more sense now.
No, it's not. S1 got all S5s video features and more, like no record limit in 4k 10bit, 6k option, DCI4K/60. Plus there is thw full size HDMI. The only thing missing is the flippy screen.
S5 has V-log included in the purchase price, has user selectable frame guides and masks for cinematic aspect ratios and can assign sensor crop selection to a Fn button. Pretty simple and very useful functions missing from the S1.
Those arent exatly headline features. To say it's a better camera for video because of those three reasons is reaching. I own the S5 (because of the form factor). But I would trade aspect ratio masking for 6k and unlimited 4k/10bit in a heartbeat. The filmmaker update is bundled with the S1 for a year now in every shop in my country anyway. So I don't considered that as paid update anymore.
I’m just pointing out It’s simply untrue to state the S1 got all the S5 video features and an S1 is now a better camera. Depending on your needs and country of purchase with regards to bundled offers the S5 could still a better choice.I have both and will be selling the S1 now I know these very useful features have not been implemented. Long recording times may be a deciding factor to you but I’d challenge anyone to eyeball the difference between 5.9k vs 6k.....
Ok, but then your statement is also untrue saying that the S5 is better. And 6k is not considered as a delivery format, but the possibility to crop for a 4k timeline is certanly useful.
The S5 is a better camera for my use for the reasons explained. You can also crop and downsample from 5.9k to 4k and again I would challenge anyone to see the difference or rationally argue that 6k vs 5.9k is a practical advantage.
Yeah but S1 now shoots 6k internal which is limited to 4k in the S5. We can argue about this all day. Im glad you're happy with your S5. So am I. But it's no longer better for video compared to the S1.
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