Canon just pulled back the curtain on a major new camera, coming (we assume) later this year. The EOS R3 will sit above the R5 in the RF lineup, and will offer professional-grade build quality and a newly-developed Canon stacked CMOS sensor.
In today's episode of DPReview TV, Chris and Jordan answer the question everyone is asking: what do they think about Canon's EOS R3 development announcement?
For those complaining about size, I love the way the 1DX mark III feels in my hand. It just grips nicely and feels comfortable working all day with a 300mm L lens etc., very easy to get good stable shots as well.
How disappointing - yet another ultra-expensive body (assuming it will be above R5) for pros only. Have Canon completely forgotten the millions of xxxD / xxD / 7D "ordinary" customers? You'd think with the summer holiday season not far away, and people eager to get outdoors again, they'd be announcing a range of consumer R700 / R70 / R7 products. It's a shame if there's so liitle profit left in that segment that Canon has decided to shut down photography for the masses.
People moving on to phones for standard snaps. Eventually DSLRs will become a niche working persons tool priced accordingly. Market is shrinking rapidly for dedicated cameras with phones providing real good quality.
When not working my equipment ie DSLRs and Digital MF body lenses etc.. stay in the pelican cases and my iPhone is my day to day camera.
I hate my iphone 11 it takes some ugly pictures. Convenient ok fine but do I ever look at my pictures??? No. Boring flat garbage. Theoretically a small camera and lens should be easier but they have made it into the hardest thing in the world.... Most of the world is “fine” with it because theyre ignorant know nothing goofs whose sole purpose in life is to feed the few people who actually do something useful around here.
Phones are just hideously crap for many types of photography that a typical xxD / 7D buyer would have bought their equipment to do. If Canon has decided to ignore the keen amateur photographer, then others like Sony and Fuji will happily take their market share.
Want the ultimate, gotta pay the ultimate. With the Covid, phones have become well-established and 'good enough'. For me, I value durability first, image quality is a distant second.
A heavy camera has never bothered me whether I'm in the city or out in the bush even at 66. Quality cameras and quality lenses weighs, folks. Get used to it!
recreating their old dslr lineup within the mirrorless system (at a higher price point) it is an obvious, big, fail. Some companies seem to be unable to change pace regardless of the changing times. The game here was reducing and consolidating the dslr lineup (which has been why the company thrived in the first place) AND heavily innovating to be competitive with Sony and Fuji in the market segments where some profits still lie. None of them is happening. Just history repeating
Some people seem to be unable to understand that different users have different camera requirements. And that not all users are happy with tiny rectangular brick ergonomics. Especially those who use big lenses and/or have big hands.
@jpeghorror, this is very tough call, and probably only Canon can assess what lenses should be their top priority based on where they see most sales may come from short term. IMO, they need to continue bringing more of unique lenses absent from EF lineup, such as 200-500 f/4 L, or 200-600 f/4-7.1 L. May be, some primes.
They already cover midrange pricewise from 24 to 800mm with 4 primes (35, 85, 600, 800) and two zooms (24-105, 24-240). More will come, of course.
I'm thinking about RF equivalents for the EF lenses with the dashed gold ring, like the 50/1.4, 100/2.8 macro, 85/1.8, 20/2.8, 28-105 - with USM. These had build quality and price between the EF 50/1.8 and the luxury lenses. This class of EF lens had the strongest mainstream appeal and the 85 and 100 macro performed optically as well as Ls, some say. Everybody had these.
Maybe Canon intends lenses like the RF 35/1.8 to fill the gold ring class (it's certainly priced that way) but to me it performs more like EF-S silver ring lenses and in fact has a silver ring, but not sure it means the same thing. So it seems Canon isn't quite duplicating its old lens lineup, and given the state of camera sales, probably doesn't intend to. But new gold rings would definitely broaden the system's appeal.
I agree with Vladyslav: why can't we accept the fact that different users may have different preferences in the size of their camera? Why do we always have these silly posts where one person declares their opinion to be the preference for all?
Think of all of the industries where we have different sizes of products to match the preferences of different users: cars, homes, clothes, watches and jewelry, smartphones, computers, tablet computers, etc. Why in the world would anyone expect that in the camera industry you will have a one size fits all approach?
No, I do understand that Vlad. I just think that that area is more than covered by excellent top end Canon dslr (half the price) or, if you want mirrorless, the fuji gfx line (super chunky!). I mean, I'm not negating the right of existence of the R5 R3 R1 exc., I'm just saying that the number of photographer who needs that tool (and that will pay 5000$ for a camera) is increasingly smaller; not even talking about lenses price. PRICE. You can't neglect this element in a shrinking market.
Well prices have to adjust depending on how many units sell. R&D,parts,labor,transportation,warranty etc. has a cost and most people use phones to take pictures and not many need such a body.
If we click the YouTube link does that count has one view in YouTube ? If not, I'll watch this in YouTube website not thru the link. Watching right this moment.
While watching it crossed my mind, How Much Does Sony Earns from Royalties ?
Is Sony divulging who are buying their cutting edge sensors ? Who are paying royalties ? If Sony not telling, therefore, SONY GOT CLASS !
@Mariano Pacifico, I'm glad Nikon and others could keep competitive by paying Sony for sensor help. However, get off your fan b o y high horse, Sony buys a lot of tech.
The company Xperi has many patents needed for stacked BSI sensors (look up Direct Bond Interconnect). Here is Xperi 's recent SEC filing:
search for "Sony" in the above document (among other things) you will find:
Sensors. Providers of image and time-of-flights sensors used in mobile phones, consumer electronics and automobiles. Customers typically have paid us fixed fees for specified periods of time or a per-unit fee and include Canon, Omnivision, Samsung, and Sony.
The high end cameras will allways have a physical shutter, it will keep the dust off the sensor when the lens is off. Only the cheap ones eventually won't have one.
Tech unfortunately killed the industry. This is yet another camera that people will forget in five years and be worth next to nothing. Cameras have become like phones... no one really cares anymore how many more megapixels you get or what ridiculous iso you can shoot at. Nikon and Canon need to be more imaginative than this. Think outside the box. Think Nikon F.
I think its really good, not a negative. This technology will eventually, slowly, filter down to less expensive bodies so I can afford it!
It’s also important the camera companies embrace technology and keep moving forward, as to avoid being further reeled in by the phone cameras. I appreciate no pro’s will use phone cameras, nor wildlife nor sports, but my point is that if this tech filters down to a mid level body in a small size package, it becomes more compelling, as at the moment for most people the cheaper bodies shoot slow and don’t produce much better than their phone in terms of everyday photography (most people meaning most people, not most DPR readers!).
Makes sense. It's the only way camera companies will survive in the end. Doing what they do best instead of competing with tech companies. Leica knows this thats why they can't keep up with demand for their film cameras.
I hear that, but I think he was just referring to his dislike of vertical grips in general. (I bet you probably worked that out too so don't pay any attention to me !)
Not entirely sure what he was referring to. But would kinda expect a reviewer to have an open mind, seems very narrow minded for a reviewer to sell their prejudices to their readers/viewers.
Well, I will not check the “I Want It” box, anytime soon, but this is very interesting news, that validates my patience, and, makes it more likely that I will continue to buy the occasional high-end EF lens, and, especially one or more high-end Speedlites, in the near term. (My recent posting history and gear list may indicate a significant shift to Nikon, but that is mostly for birds and wildlife, largely so that my Nikon-shooting wife and I can share some expensive super-telephoto and low-light lenses.)
I am not sure percentage for those who want the R3 or higher. I think it would be a bigger market for R mark II that includes IBS. I know this is going to against R6 currently. Just IMO.
Yes! Haha. If i could get an R body with the 90d sensor I’d buy it tomorrow. For now, I’m using an XT3. Crop sensors still rule for me for wildlife/birds, until high megapixel cropping becomes much cheaper than an R5!
Need? Probably not. Want? I'm sure there are people out there that one one.
However, with a declining market for interchangable lens cameras, I'm wondering why Canon is so intent on releasing a ton of bodies into a declining market. (I mean I know, from a competition standpoint obviously they want to compete) but at the same time, I think even so is perhaps being a little cautious and not going full steam into a declining market like it seems Canon is perhaps doing.
Canon is the only company selling more mirrorless cameras YoY. Their DSLRs are in decline. They need to make more models to hold that near 50% market share for interchangeable lens cameras. And I am sure the pro market is important to them. And and R3 and R1 are very necessary .
I guess I should have added that I'm aware of the pro market, and that will always sort of be there.... I guess maybe that's why we don't see something like an R7 or R8.... (for the consumer market).
It's going to be another amazing camera that will please Canon photographers and these new customers who were waiting for such tool. Same will be with Nikon Z9 - many Nikon pro photographers will be very pleased with this release for sure. Sony customers are arleady happy with A1, so all should be pleased, shouldn't they?
Sounds like everybody in the market for $5000+ cameras should be pleased. I just hope that it's because it's new, hot tech and that stacked CMOS won't cause a permanent price hike to that level. I totally wouldn't mind of Sony pulled a rabbit out of the hat and said the a7 IV would have a cheaper, lower resolution stacked sensor. The odds of that is very slim though.
Nice to see canon also goes on the Stacked CMOS Sensor. Lenses are also Nice but pricing is as expected out of reach,
As for integrated Battery Grip, well, love it. That’s one of the reason i love the EM1X. Its a joy to use. And rumor haas it that the MKII will also go for those fast stacked readout.
So a stacked sensor with 30fps.., so much for the talk about global shutter. Not really surprised, as I simply think that technology is to expensive at precent. So something in the region of the A1, with better bending and distortion control and less dependence on mechanical shutter.
Autofucus like the R5... well it also works perfectly fine, new subjects however is always a welcome addition.
Eye control AF, great if it works, but not so great if it doesn’t., but this time I would like to see it work for everyone, even with contact lenses, glasses etc. or else it’s basically a useless feature for like half of the user base.
Integrated battery grip, this is gonna split the waters, some pro’s and wannabes love that, others like landscapers have no use for it. So I guess this will be more a A9ii competitor with lower megapixel like 20-24. As it will make room for a high megapixel R1 to compete with the A1.
"so much for the talk about global shutter" - well it is pretty clear we are far, far away for a true global shutter for photography. Also higher MPx sensors push this goal further. But then again it is not really needed.
If the manufacturers manage to push the sensor readout speed faster that the best mechanical shutters, from that point on it will be more for bragging right purposes or super niche applications which might not really justify the development/costs. Future will tell, but i don't expect global shutter any time soon.
The R5 isn’t competing with the A1 or even the A9. The A1 is a pro high res (Sports) camera and the A9 a low resolution pro (sports) camera. The R5 isn’t suitable for that, as it where never intended for such purposes. It’s mostly a jack of all trades camera, that dos fine at most things but doesn’t particularly excel at any special task, I don’t mean it in a negative way, just stating that when you have a camera like the R5 that needs to do so many different task and be a more like general purpose then it has its tradeoff you have to live with.
The R3 is most likely going to be the low resolution Pro camera or the equal to A9ii and the A1 the High resolution pro or the equal to A1.
Global Shutter on high resolution sensors is developed. Sony has already made patent on such design and given it names, so it exists the question is when we will see it. The technology is there to get a 100 megapixel Global Shutter I don’t think it’s up to debate, however such camera would be to expensive for it to make sense, I think we have to wait a little longer, I suspect we are gonna see a Low Res Global Shutte before we see a high resolution, in Sonys world that would be the FX ( I Suspect we have seen the last A7s) line or the A9ii before we will see it in A1. Meaning R1 I don’t think we will see with a global shutter just yet.
@Malling - the fun thing with the A1 is that is no more a "high res sports" camera, but takes the "jack of all trades" to the "expert of all trades" level :)) And probably R1 will be the same, indeed.
We reached the point where "jack of trades" (R5, A7R4, etc) are pretty damn good at all those trades. I would be curious about a direct comparison, but I would suspect that the R5 mops the floor with a 2 generations back 1 series (1DX mk1) for example.
Canon will already (as of Jan 2017) sell you one of its Cinema cameras with a global shutter sensor (with 15 stops of DR), so it's not miles away. Also the R5's AF and shooting rate are enough for a lot of pro sports photographers who would rather not blow the big bucks on the highest-end models if they can get 90% the performance for a lot less money.
"so much for the talk about global shutter" - my theory is that the R3 will have a 40-50 Mpx stacked sensor and they are reserving the R1 moniker for and eventually 20 something Mpx global shutter sensor 1 or 2 years down the road
Canon is clearly in conversation with Renault and Yamaha for their high end mirrorless bodies. Whe got the R6 and the R5 already, just wait to see the Turbo versions. Get ready for the future R1 with its crossplane crankshaft and no mechanical shutter.
The R3 was a cheaper version of the R4, with less features. It was meant to be used by public authorities. So while Canon usually reduces the feature set with rising numbers, it is the other way round with Renault. Interestingly, the R3 lacked the fan heater of the R4 - a detail that might make the video guys sit up and take notice.
Interesting they go "big body" on the 3 line. Personally, I would have expected a big body R1 and then a small body R3 to compete with the A1. Seems like Canon/Nikon will again only give you a flagship camera if you are willing to buy it with a fixed vertical grip
Yes...as the camera market shrinks, we are getting the most advanced cameras ever with some amazing tech inside. The focus has shifted to the high end and this means high tech for sure.
I guess the key sensor question is what is the resolution. My guess would be that it is around 20MP as: - no mention of 8k recording - the camera is marketed as Eos 3 rather than 1 which leaves room for a higher resolution model to match the A1 - i doubt Canon can go from not manufacturing BSI or stacked sensors to matching Sony with BSI+DRAM+High resolution with high DR and low noise all in one generation. I could be wrong but Sony has a much larger sensor R&D budget due to the phone camera sensor business and has been making BSI and stacked sensor for a few years - Canon has older fabs to make their sensors which could limit the complexity of the sensor they can make
@David Cartagena: I agree...over time technology leads by any company tend to shrink as others figure it out as well. Markets generally tend towards parity.
But many on these forums did doubt that Canon could create a stacked sensor, and some even doubted they could do a BSI sensor.
So now the doubtful predictions have shifted, and it's that they can't do as high a resolution as Sony with a stacked sensor...this could be true, but it's also the type of doubt that said Canon couldn't create a BSI stacked sensor in the first place that has been proven wrong with this announcement.
According to the most beloved Tony Northrup, this is all inline with Canon's history of numbering for their Camera products. So there really, at this point, should not be any reservations to whether or not they can do 50MP in the upcoming likely named R1. The Flagship model. I Hear footsteps, and so does Sony. Big Ones.
@Ayoh: again, you could be correct. Your logic makes sense. But we don't know yet.
But after getting the bad press with the R5 with the 8K, could you blame Canon for not advertising that at all with this dev announcement, even if the R3 has 8K? I mean the critics would come out of the woodwork, and the usual jokes would abound.
Historically, the Canon 1 series has actually had the lower MP count. I don't expect that to hold true here, but you never know. If they use the R1 to debut a global sensor, as some rumors suggest, it may have lower resolution.
And what if Canon puts 45-50MP in the R3 and then tops it in the R1? Again one rumor had the R1 at 85MP.
So because this is the first of the R3 models from Canon, and because they also have never released an R1 before, then all bets are off. We are in uncharted territory. The one thing we do know is that they chose to use the R3 moniker due to the eye controlled AF.
You do know Canon registered a patent for a stacked sensor some some ago. Sony has had a BSI stacked sensor in the field since the A9 came out in 2017. Canon playing catch up.
Canon doesn't play by Sony's timetables/rules, they play by their own. Canon is the number one seller of Cameras in the World, not Sony. You do know that?
The specs that has been rumoured about Canon has been pretty unreliable, the whole thing about global shutter, seems mostly to be build on a dream of Canon crushing Sony rather then on technological realities.
Global shutter has been developed, Sony made a 100ish one, but those are quite expensive and I personally believe that’s the problem and that manufacturers aren’t going to jump the specs that much. It’s been incremental so far. We are at 60 megapixel at high res. Meaning I expect the next high res to be 80 or so. I don’t see the R1 being more then 60 megapixel and I don’t think we are going to see global shutter yet. The R1 is most like just a High res R3 with a few additional abilities.
Malling that’s exactly what everyone said about 8K when Canon first announced it. No one believed it. Now Sony has an 8K camera but at TWICE the price.
My guess is that the big body is there mainly to easy solve the heating problem and that they will keep the 8K video, otherwise it will be a tough sell against the R5 and perceived as a "fail" against the A1.
They also might not have an R1 just around the corner, and put this "3" out as a direct competitor with the A1, just for the stunt: "If R3 is as good or better compared to the A1, what the h*** will R1 be capable of?".
One of the R3 or The R1 is going to be a low resolution, but both are going to have fast read out speed and fast fps with electronic shutter and silent shutter with limited blackout. I suspect the R3 will be that a low resolution camera, as it would because of its name make more sense in regards to Sony.
The R3 is a 30fps with electronic shutter, the R5 is mechanical shutter with bending and distortion issues as you would expect for that type of camera. There is already a very good reason right there to get the R3 even if it’s low resolution! As that is what many sports and photojournalist prefer.
Lets just face it most Sony and Canon user won’t change brands anymore as there is really no reason to do so anymore as both brands offer more or less the same when Canon do release the R3 and R1. Nikon on the other hand is a different story, but it dos depends on the Z9.
I am waiting for this camera for a while. Unibody camera with great resolution and mirrorless. Lot's os photographers need the vertical grip. To have it built in one piece make it quite solide in hand.
@Er20west, said " why it didn't come out earlier."
Short answer, they didn't need to. Canon has been able to do quite well in the camera business having high sales numbers and most likely very good profits using older sensor tech. This older sensor tech is far cheaper and much more profitable then the BSI stacked sensors. Look at the R5, it is "old" sensor tech and it holds up fairly well.
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