As part of our upcoming review, here's our 4K sample reel, shot using the Panasonic Lumix DC-S1H at Seattle's Emerald City Soul Club.
All footage is DCI 4K, 23.98p in the 400Mbps mode, with the exception of a short 60p clip, marked in the video. The camera's Cinelike D2 color profile was used throughout, with minimal color grading subsequently applied.
Interview footage was all shot from a tripod, using the Panasonic 24-70mm F2.8 lens. The bulk of the in-club footage was shot using an L-mount Sigma 24mm F1.8 Art, and mounted on a DJI Ronin-S gimbal unless otherwise noted. All clips were manually focused due to the extreme low-light nature of the club.
What happens to 4k footage when you view that footage on your smart phone? My pixel width is 374 or something. Am I seeing downsampled video? Or compressed video?
Maybe I'm missing something but where is the issue of this camera not being able to properly autofocus. Having owned pretty much every camera system I have seen autofocusing issues with them all depending on each video or photo situation. From my experience it comes down to the type of lens used and the skill of the person using them. There will never ever be a perfect camera system or lens available to purchase. It's called business people.
That would have been much harder to shoot, both because it would require an external recorder and because the firmware enabling it hasn't been released for the S1H yet.
Panasonic said ToF focusing is coming soon. It is already used in some smartphones. So just wait and we should see something as good or better from Panasonic...Sony too. They also said they are working on it because they know it is a better solution.
"A time-of-flight camera has an imaging sensor in much the same way as a normal digital camera. However, the job of each photosite is to measure the time it takes for a beam of infrared light fired from the camera to return to the camera, after it it reflects off the objects in the scene in front of it. The whole scene is captured and measured with a single pulse of light – so there are no moving parts. For this reason, this depth-detecting tech has found numerous uses in industrial applications where safety is critical – but the idea of producing a three-dimensional 'map' of a subject has obvious implications for finding focus in photography. Indeed, it has already been incorporated on a number of camera phones. "
I rented a S1H a week ago, my first experience with Panasonic. Aside from the *(literally) unusable AF, it was amazing. VLOG is amazing. It was nice to finally have IBIS - I don't consider my a7iii/a7riv IBIS to be relevant in any way whatsoever in video. Sony's codec and colors for video are gawd awful - i didn't really realize this until I got a xt3 for FLOG/Eterna. S1H is just another step above. I also didn't realize how bad Sony IBIS is until this. Those youtube comparison videos about IBIS really deserve more recognition.
Same here on looking at the image quality over the story . I shoot live music photography and videography and am very interested in this camera . I’ll need several and would really like to know if that blue color channel issue has been totally handled. Other than that this camera System Im stoked about . At the moment we shoot with 4 Nikon DSLRs, 1 Panasonic and one Sony . The Nikons are the go to cameras for the image quality at the moment.
Hi Richard good timing. We were getting antsy wondering if the review was canceled. Glad it wasn't. Excited to see what you have to say. I imagine I know the answer. Has issues, but for the price point, nothing else is comparable really.
Five customers rate the camera 4 stars, that is 80% on a scale. Maybe that would just be a silver award. I too am waiting to see if the test ranking is close to the usage ranking. If price follows quality in cameras, it should test at about 92 or 93%.
Its truely a remarkable camera. The lowlight performance is nothing but amazing. Even in this difficult lighting situations and with the very high ISO it still manages to get nice colors. I wish they got a bit better AF performance though. It also matches realy well with a Canon 1DX II or a Panasonic GH5 with a speedbooster.
Because of the extreme color cast of the lighting, I left the camera fixed on incandescent (which preserved the feel of the scene, without being too lurid, and avoided the risk of the camera constantly trying to correct for the lighting).
Unfortunately, like probably 90% of us on here, I watched this on my mobile phone. So all the time put into recording, editing, and uploading this as "4K" video was largely wasted. I'm sure it has it's uses for HDTV media, but I think 4K in general is overrated for web content.
Lastly, it really does appear to be true that people in Seattle can't dance. Yikes! ;-D
My phone has a 1440p HDR display so I just need to stick my nose up to it and I'm good. Funny thing a little off topic. A lot of people have have phones that support HDR, but not many with HDR TVs, and almost no one with HDR computer monitors.
Many people read these comments purely for their comedic value. Now if you were one of the dancers in the clip, I could understand you being offended even if it was couched with a wink. But if you are one of those people simply easily offended by a little humor perhaps quieter meadows elsewhere on DPR are in order.
I'm not offended by humor. Did you actually make a joke? I saw no effort towards a joke. A wink is not a joke. You could try harder to be funny. You came off as a snob. Take that criticism however you want but this isn't about me. I'm not offended.
I love the warm story in this video. Anybody talking or joking about some dance styles or dance skills clearly do not get it. Personally, I have suffered a loss of a great local public place within a year. It was special, because it was not "something for everyone".
pannumon - With the way development in Seattle is going, you have to treat all your favourite haunts as temporary. I really wanted to capture Emerald City Soul partly because it's not going to last forever.
The Lo-Fi hosts a load of other interesting nights, too. Not all to my taste, but usually interesting. That's why I made sure to include the line giving credit to the venue's owner.
The death of the PC has been greatly exaggerated. Last I read, there is still more web browsing on desktop/laptop computers than phones, and I think I’m far from alone in thinking “4K video demo; I want to see this on my 4K monitor”
I question why anyone would watch a sample video reel like this on their mobile phone. I could understand watching review videos as the content is about giving out information but making a post proclaiming that you purposely watched a sample reel on your mobile device? Why? It's like saying you attempted to listen to high end audio sample with their mobile device's speakers. Why not wait until you are at a computer unless you are seriously suggesting you do not own a computer.
I am not a video expert, by far. But this video - as a first on dpreview - really stunned me because of its image quality (and I do not care too much about that kind of music etc.). I like that image quality, really. And it really stands out for me. Thanks for sharing!
I saw a review of this and supposedly the internal codec is ridiculously good. Like doesn't break in high saturation or when you try to completely change the hue. The GH5 was an exciting camera but this is overwhelming. Such amazing IQ out of a relatively small body. Can't wait to rent one!
I rented one last weekend. And i was skeptical. I used to think internal codecs and color science in video didn't matter - until I tried (nad then bought) a x_t3 for video since my sony's are falling so far behind. And hten the S1H. This is a completely different level esp with V-LOG. Even their standard profile is really pleasing. Despite missing AF badly, I'm very tempted....
Yeah I downloaded the test footage from DPR and that codec is really really awesome. It does not break easily. Getting a little hot and bothered thinking about it. I've used the GH5 for ages now and the AF has never been an issues but I am usually locked off and use MF lenses.
People are DANCING!!! great moves. That is good news, in Finland people go to that kinda places and sit and drink. Here is this huuge difference. This video made me miss gigs abroad. Now that video is what photography and videos should be about, make somebody feel, remember and think at least something which is rare. I did not look the slightest moment what iso what dynamics, what composition, how is the sound etc. Just went immediatelly flying through years to Nizza and Stockholm and Paris and NY and Beirut etc and all those discos at -70`s and 80`s Oh boy, to be old is hell and to be old in a country where people are shy and cold and conservative is also a bit sad. So..cause the video did show livelihood, it made me feel good and sad together, thta is called living. I don`t care about bitrates, I care about life.
Thank you for this comment. I've been wanted to shoot this video for a long time and was hoping it would capture some of what I love about the club. It's lovely to hear someone relating to that.
Dear Jore Puusa, - Finland is more democratic than most other countries. - Finland has less corruption. - The Finnish educational and health care systems provide access to good-quality public education and healt care to anyone. - The foreign language skills are among the best in the world. - The streets of Finland are more secure than in most other countries. - According to recent international happiness studies, the people of Finland are among the happiest on this planet. - The habits of alcohol consumption are not what you say. Now people here can mostly behave... - Anybody can become prime minister or president of Finland. Finland has proved this many times. - In Finland everybody has easy access to nature. This is reflected in the values of people which in many ways are ”healthy”. Yes, sometimes life in Finland becomes boring and I miss many of the other countries in which I have worked, but in any case Finland is not a bad country for us photographers.
quote would capture some of what I love ---------- Richard, that is the main thing about video and photography. You hit the nail with Your video. Sometimes I did it too with my photojournalism. So we are two of those thousands of lucky people who use our skills and cams to bring happines to others. That is the very best thing about being a visualist.
@jorepuusa @Sea Hunt 2 Finland is pretty diverse (from a perspective of a native). People inside about 2 km radius from the business center of Helsinki can be quite tense, but beyond that, they are much more relaxed and definitely not conservative (except the countryside). For example Kallio area in Helsinki is pretty nice, although there's no stopping the gentrification. Smaller towns are much much better.
In the summer, the golder hour takes forever, and if you miss it, there is no time to sleep because the sun is already rising...
Good music is very visceral and emotional. It stops you from analyzing everything. The mid 1960's to about 1978 was an emotional era in the US. It was during those times that soul music emerged and combined with disco. It was popularized by singers such as James Brown, Al Green, Marvin Gaye, etc. I remember dancing to "Fame" by David Bowie.
400mbps sounds like a lot but I'm curious how that translates into picture quality. I've heard actual experts say that it's not the bit rate per se, it's how the engineers are using those bits. Broadcast TV news cameras generally shoot around 50mbps at 10-bit 4:2:2. but it's very nice footage. The Sony FS65—which is a popular cinema camera—does up to 880mbps internally with 12-bit 4:4:4 color. The Alexas and Reds have a million kinds of compression ratios and bit rates to choose from. If I recall correctly their 4K-5K output is in the 150 to 800 mbps range. It's hard to compare them to any DSLRs because video cameras do a lot more processing, have a trillion picture adjustments available inside the camera, and have all sorts of communication pipelines and protocols and plugs built in. They're built for a very specific way of working that's different from how still shooters do things.
Youtube compression is not the best, usually very restricted. ISO 20 000 looks too washed out and noisy muddy. ISO 8000 looks very good with talking heads, but less great when tons of movement. That might be Youtube compression issue.
Would it be possible to download the original video file from somewhere?
It could be because of compression or could be because of temporal noise reduction. Something that Panasonic introduced on the GH5S. Can DPreview test for that? I haven't seen anybody else do it yet
These weren't conditions that would show off the benefits of resolution either, because much of the field is out-of-focus. You will see it here and there, e.g., tripod shots with the mirror ball, or focused on eyes or eyeglasses, Foliage is more revealing in general.
@Richard Butler - next time you're in London drop by and I'll give a course in why just out-of-focus images are so much more artistic... well, that or buy enough beers that no-one will care...
@Fotoni Wondering if we're seeing the same thing. I watched in 4K on my OLED TV and thought it was very impressive, including the high ISO scenes. Potentially Youtube display peculiarities? @Panther the temporal noise reduction issue was fixed with a firmware update shortly after it was released
I'd be curious to see a comparison between the GH5 with a SIgma F1.8 zoom and speedbooster vs. a GH5S with the Panasonic F1.7 zoom and the S1H with this F2.8 zoom. Which combo would Jordan prefer?
(The S1H with the Sigma 24mm F1.8 Art is a lot harder to be beat though unless the need for DoF comes into play - then the GH5S usually wins)
That would be nice to see too! I know you get more advantages in theory from DOF/llight etc, but i'd rather use my 18-35 on a s35 sensor than a m43 boosted.
A big thanks to Panasonic for elevating ILCs to what they've become for video. For 10 years since the GH1 they've been ahead of everyone else (the GH1 and GH2 hacks were a big help). The S1H again shows this. It is clearly the best we have today, although Fujifilm and Canon have some interesting cameras for video too. Nikon's RAW video has been disappointing so far, but they are trying. Don't look for any Sony DCI 4K video like this one. Sony has fallen far behind and is no longer in the conversation by refusing to offer DCI 4K, 10 bit video, 4:2:2 or higher, or a bit rate above 100Mbps (both Panasonic and Fujifilm offer 400Mbps)
@tkbasic Considering Nikon's previous video endeavours the the Z6 is very good indeed :-) I think that Nikon could/should push video as unlike Canon, Panasonic and Sony they have no higher end video to compromise. I have not really done much in the way of video with my FF gear and find my m43 kit more convenient for video shooting. Though it often gets forgotten it was Nikon who first introduced video to a DLSR with the D90
I know Nikon has no high end video market to cross compete with . I am a Panasonic user for over 10yrs now .I was not inferring that Panasonic does not make vg mirrorless cameras with great video , they surely do.
But there must come a point where they are competing with their own products , if for example their FF mirrorless video really took off it could easily be at the expense of their m43 offerings . There are no shortage of discussion about this in the various forums. The Nikon Z6 video is very good and capable of superb results in talented hands for a first go at mirrorless video I think they have done very well. Same story with their IBIS despite no previous experience it is superior to Sony third and fourth gen FF mirrorless models . I am speaking from personal ownership of both systems
As I say for me the smaller lighter size of the m43 set-up for video works very well , Nice edit :-)
James, what the heck is your point? You incorrectly said "I think that Nikon could/should push video as unlike...Panasonic " That made no sense. Now you are all over the place. For the past 10 years Panasonic has been at the forefront and offered the best hybrid ILCs and ILCs for video. Let's leave it at that.
I'm surprised how much Panasonic was willing to step on the Cine Division's toes with the S1H. It's extremely competitive with the EVA-1 in most respects and superior in several.
I think Sony and Canon hold back quite a bit more on their consumer lines distinguish the cinema bodies.
tkbasic, I understood Jams Stirling's comment and did not see it as a shot at Panasonic. He was simply observing that there is a _potential_ conflict or at least a consideration of product segmentation for companies that have both a professional video equipment line and a hybrid/ILC camera line. How this _potential_ conflict is handled is then up to the company. Panasonic has done a good job of pushing the hybrid/ILC capabilities despite the fear of pro-video product cannibalization. This conflict has been acknowledged in interviews published on DPR etc.
James was saying that Nikon doesn't have this issue to grapple with. Of course it's not the only factor, probably not even the main one, that determines the development track for video features. The countervailing advantage for pro-video companies (Panasonic, Sony, Cano) is that they also have product definers and designers who know all about video and its sub-markets.
Thanks for the reply Jordan . It is good news for consumers as the high end video stuff is often crazy expensive, and hard to justify for fun or to my wife :-) . Talking about family that was a wonderful wee review with your son, that boy is a future star
"Nikon ... unlike Canon, Panasonic and Sony they have no higher end video to compromise." Conversely, those three have substantial video expertise and resources that can help when developing video capabilities in stills or "hybrid" cameras, that Nikon (and Olympus) lack.
The evidence is that being involved in the dedicated video equipment market correlates with a company having better, not worse, video in its digital cameras. The cynical "they hobble video in their still cameras because they do not want to compete with themselves" doesn't hold up — maybe because the markets are sufficiently separate.
Like I said to begin with, it has been Panasonic pushing the envelop with ILCs for 10 years now, and now more than ever! And I agree with Jordan, "I'm surprised how much Panasonic was willing to step on the Cine Division's toes with the S1H"
Also, thanks to all for clarifying what James said, I am sorry for the confusion. I misunderstood what he said. Sorry James.
And Jordan, I would love to see a comparison of the GH5/GH5s with a speedbooster and, F/1.8 zoom, the F1.7 zoom, and the S1H.
>>>Nikon's RAW video has been disappointing so far
Everything shot with the Nikon Z6 RAW that I've seen looks fantastic. ( there is a bogus zone-plate test where people are complaining about image artifacts, but I haven't seen any real-world footage that backs up their complaints )
The only disappointment I've seen with the Z6 RAW feature is from the cheapskates that wanted it for free. Nikon tried to add it as a firmware update to the Z6, but after almost a year of trying it became obvious that a $200 hardware upgrade was needed to enable RAW recording, which is peanuts when you look at how much other Full Frame cameras cost that can shoot RAW footage.
@tkbasic "Sure looks disappointing to me. Looks like pixel binning."
This test is bogus. I will wait for proper professional tests done with real zone-plate charts by people who know what they are doing.
>>>where is your evidence?
Please show me all the terrible artifacts in this footage shot by the Cinema5D folks : https://vimeo.com/380391740
Here are some YouTube Z6 RAW samples that may show YouTube artifacts from their own conversion system, but I would not attribute this to Z6 RAW performance without seeing the actual RAW footage firsthand...
As more people receive their upgraded Z6 cameras back from Nikon, we should start to see a lot more Z6 RAW footage online. But so far I'm not seeing any problems with the image it captures. ( apart from the bogus zone-plate test )
Sony has really really fallen behind. I'm seriously considering the S1H after trying it last weekend. Even if Sony ups the specs with the a7iv and a7s update in the coming months to 10bit or 4k60p etc, there's no way I can ever got back to SLOG or HLG from Sony after using eterna/flog recently w/ my x-t3. And the S1H is just another BIG step above.... really impressed.
Any new A7S would be DOA. It would not be 8K and going by Sony's past would not compete with their pro line. We already know Sharp and probably Panasonic will have 8K cameras in 2020. Sony has fallen too far behind everyone else.
Look at this wonderful flick DPR did. It uses DCI 4K, 400Mbps mode, and a little 4K 60p. Sony cameras have none of those.
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