Renowned UK-based landscape photographer Nigel Danson has been using DSLRs for years. In this video, created exclusively for DPReview, Nigel discusses his experience using the Nikon Z7 and why he's excited about mirrorless cameras. (Spoiler... beautiful scenery ahead.)
Its very odd how everyone is ignoring Olympus. I recently did a shootout with my EM 1Mark ll and trusty little 75-300 ll, and my friends Nikon D800 with his new 80-400 VR ED. The Nikon was set to f16 and my Olympus set to f8. Mirror was up with remote, D800, silent shutter and normal resolution on my EM 1 ll...both cameras at iso 200.
The results were printed at 22x30 for the Olympus, and 20x 30 for the Nikon, on smooth, watercolor paper, (Breathing Color), using an Epson Pro Stylus 7880. I had a lot of fun with this test actually, it wasn't easy for anyone to see any clear difference. All I said was pick which print you like, details were written on the back. I was very suprised they were so close with this test at least.
Olympus brought ibis to new levels, and continue to be the leader...the new EM 1X is going to be a beast, if youve read the specs! 7.5+ ibis and the new 150-400 f4 Pro with 5 axis and dual stabilization, and built in 1.2 converter!
Chickhiker, your attitude is so typical of the masses who follow the sheep; essentially, people like to be told what to do, it happens in fashion, the music industry, fitness and diet... many different products and trends, the blind following the blind! Full frame superiority fits right in!
Masses? Retired photographer... WORKING photographer. Nikon system since 1970's... Never saw many Olympus systems by photographers who get paid. Maybe Oly will take over the market, but I doubt it...
I'm glad you got good pictures. From what I've seen on Flickr, I think that 4/3rds sensor will limit any wide angle, low light or action shots compared to D800.
I'm hoping this mirrorless revolution happens soon and drives down the prices for those antiquated F-mount lenses and bodies on the used market. My D500 does pretty well, thanks.
I'm a hobbyist who shoots a variety of images including, portraits, landscapes, sports, and wildlife. Especially for sports and wildlife, I find the Z7 inferior to the D850.
I have a A7R3 purchased for its ability to shoot Canon lenses, and haven't been disappointed. 60% of my shots are with adapted Canon lenses. The rest are with compact native glass like the 55mm prime, and the compact and excellent 12-24mm UWA zoom.
Currently, I see little benefit to adding a Z7. I doubt that it would enable me to get better landscapes (especially with current lens offerings), and it definitely won't improve my ability to capture action shots.
My view could change with future offerings and as the lens lineup expands. But for now I get my desire for a compact kit and use of quality Canon L glass on a superb sensor satisfied by Sony. Sorry, Nikon, you joined the party too late and Canon quit addressing my photographic needs years ago.
If you've got a bunch of Canon glass, the Z won't be the way for you to go until somebody makes a really good adapter. But i don't think the Z6 or Z7 are worth getting yet anyway. Maybe the Z8 or Z9, or Z6M2 or Z7M2. We'll see...
My interest in Nikon is due to my transitioning to Nikon starting in 2012 with the D800. I just never sold my Canon glass (too good!). After using Nikon all this time, I have no desire to pick up a Canon with a strong AA filter, lower DR, and lower resolution (hopefully Canon will change).
I have no problem shooting dual systems. I kept and used Canon bodies until 2017, so if Nikon steps up its game and addresses my concerns with the next generation of the Z7, I'll consider it. It would just need to be superior to the D850 in significant ways for me to consider it (it would also need to be better than the A7R4!). I already have a compact camera, so why get less than the best that Nikon has to offer?
Ah, gotcha. Yeah, next Z models or next generation of the Z6 and Z7 then. That's what I'm waiting for. Nikon recently surveyed me and that's what i told them. They better get serious with their next Z releases.
The only concerning issue: will the next generation Z7 have next generation pricing also? For what these cameras offer the prices are out of line in my opinion. Nikon keeps increasing the price of their cameras and lenses drastically. What is the marketplace?
@ Rocket: Nah, Nikon pretty much sets a price for their model and the successors keep the same or very similar price.
Z lenses certainly cost a lot more than their F-mount brethren though. Hopefully that will change, but I kinda don't think it will. Nikon seems to be making a statement with their Z-mount stuff that there's more tech and precision in them (certainly regarding lenses) so they're going to cost more. Like around Zeiss-ish pricing. And the Z lenses do appear to be at least Gold Ring Nikkor good. It seems to me that Nikon intends to make all Z lenses true pro caliber. Probably not ever going to see any mediocre/lower-priced Z lenses. At least not until Nikon releases a Z body in the sub-$1,500 range. Maybe when Nikon releases an APS-C Z body and native lenses.
Nikon better put a bunch of switches on their Z lenses like they do their F-mount lenses. Not having a VR switch on-lens would be a shot to their own head...
For me getting rid of focus calibration and much reduced focus shift is one of the major reasons to prefer MILC. And after the launch of the A9 the EVF/OVF discussion was over too.
Although I am invested in Sony A7/A9 I consider the Z7 as attractive body which I would really like to use together with the 50/1.8S.
Try them both for a week. The Z6 stays with Papa :-) Use it with my old Ai-s lenses. Its magical. Works well. My NIKKOR 100MM 2:8 E. Wow! Super funny...
Just heard the same phrases again and again..."EVF is sooooo much better". "mirrorless is sooooooo much lighter". I can not second that with my mirrorless cams. The Optics are equally large and heavy and the batteries eat the gained weight easily. I miss some relativity in this video. No "Cons"? Really? I could easily find some... but if it works for him, it's ok. The Z7 is a great cam. Would I trade a D850 for it? Never ever.
One of the best sets of real photos I have seen in a video about gear and to this shows Nigel is a real photographer who gives some well weighted commentary about one of the zillions of options of gear. Much appreciated!
And it confirms my understanding of mirrorless cameras: lighter, more compact and better control through the viewfinder compared to DSLR. While being a non-professional Canon user and equipped with M50 (which is IMO Canons optimum current mirrorless offer) the same principles apply to all photographers.
Plus Nigel speaks often about "MY photography" so he has left room for other opinions and that is a very good habit.
On two separate images he mentions using f9. Was this just a coincidence and why be so specific, I mean why not f8 or f11? I often see professional images shot using aperture priority then selecting fractional f stops. I'm certainly not able to assess the difference in DOF of 1/3f stop through the view finder. What am I missing?
I do a lot of exposure bracketing and the only way to activate on the Z7 is through the Shooting Menu instead of a button on the outside of the body. Really irritating.
Yep. D3500-esque ergos is the reason i don't have a Z7... Well, and it should have a flash too. No flash is what kept me out of the D850.
And before i get all the routine hate i always get when i mention pop-up flash, lemme just say that i don't want to carry ANY external flash. When I'm doing "flash photography", it's with multiple strobes and wireless trigger. Otherwise, oh yes, i love LOVE having a pop-up!
Sir 7: I'm with you on the flash. On Oly cameras at least, the camera mounted flash is also used as a flash controller for remote flashes. I rarely use the camera mounted flash as a flash but often as a controller for the main flash on a bracket off the camera, no cable necessary. It's frustrating to have to carry around a miniscule little flash and possibly loose it, just to be able to control the main flash. It would be so much more convenient to just pop it up and all is under control.
Yup, as a controller as well. Wireless isn't flawless, and any gear can fail. Not having a built-in flash as a backup controller is a big negative. But even as a primary lighting source, or simply for fill, i get great results with pop-up. Those who hate on pop-ups just want to argue...
Lol, exactly. I blame mirrorless cameras for starting this horrible trend. Probably started to falsely boost their CIPA shots per charge battery rating, since 50% of photos are taken with full-power flash, and there is no measurement without using flash, nor differentiation between cameras with flash and without. Plus, companies just charge the same amount for the camera without a flash as they do with the flash.
That is weak sauce... Shame on all camera manufacturers! And on CIPA for retarded testing methodology, and lack of necessary testing criteria like shots per charge without using flash.
Back focus issues with dslr would be the reason for me to switch to mirroless. I'm done with companies and people telling me that it's not tru, I am the s****r who's wrong and I "only" have to buy other lenses, again.
Yes, lens calibration becomes a thing of the past. AF is done straight onto the sensor surface nowhere else. In a DSLR, light bounces off a small flappy mirror to AF sensors somewhere in the body. The mirror and AF sensors have to be positioned precisely in relation to the image sensor. It's a miracle that DSLR AF was ever made to work so well.
thing is, not really. I have had back focus issues with M4/3s bodies. Some of my Panasonic lenses don't focus properly on my Olympus bodies at certain distances.
If you look at Nigel's website and recommended gear, you will see he also uses Fuji products. So it's not like he's a paid Nikon Ambassador, like, let's say Joe McNally.
But tbcass has it right: Nigel is really trying to give you his opinion of the advantages/disadvantages of mirrorless over DSLR...he just happens to use Nikon.
It seems that DSLR evangelists hate any article by anybody that claims that a mirrorless camera can be preferable for some people. While I do not own a mirrorless camera I could care less if someone prefers them. Both Mirrorless and DSLRs can get any photographic job done.
so true i get excited and think you beauty should be a good landscape vid and all you get is a beginner mirrorless user going over what was invented 10 years ago.
The sad thing is that majority of the DSLR shooters have been ignorant about m4/3 capabilities and features, only to find much much later those when Sony started the marketing and now when Nikon and Canon is with.
(Not really). But please dpr, stop with the Instagram definition of landscape - Damn, you guys should really have a degree somewhere. Any BA's here, or MA's in photography maybe??
This commercial nonsense is good for clicks, well done. But the landscape will benefit not one iota from Mr Danson's ignorant clichés.
Geez...somebody is always a critic. Nigel's work is excellent. He seems to have a thriving photography business, encompassing selling photos, giving photo tours, Youtube educational channel, etc. That takes a whole lot of hard work and requires some degree of skills.
I would like to see the critics do better. Then they can talk.
OK, I’ve never offered direct links in these comments because I have no commercial agenda (as opposed to DPR maybe?).
But I‘ll offer some names of photographers breaking ground and offering interesting perspectives in contemporary landscape practice. Google them if you’re nterested:
Alec Soth, Camille Seaman, Alex Boyd, Darren Almond, David Spero, Edward Burtynsky, Espen Rasmussen, Ian Teh, Isabelle Hayeur, Jem Southam, John Gossage, Jorn Vanhofen, Neal Rantoul, Olaf Otto Becker, Paul Graham, Pieter Hugo, Richard Misrach, Simon Roberts, Stephen Shore, Edmund Clark, Willy Doherty, Robert Adams, etc. etc…..
Sir 7, I insulted no one, but I did comment on the images.
If you had any knowledge of landscape photography, you might have had something useful to say about my last reply. But no, none of those photographers; no history of landscape photography; no academic research or cultural awareness, is going to influence you.
You want to see, and you probably try to make, pretty pictures that make you feel warm and safe and happy. But the landscape tells a different story.
Most of all, I didn't insult anyone. But I did point out that this work - these images - are worthless. It's about the pictures.
Your saying Nigel's review was "commercial nonsense" and that "the landscape will benefit not one iota from Mr Danson's ignorant clichés" is insulting to Nigel.
Then you insulted me by saying "If you had any knowledge of landscape photography, you might have had something useful to say..."
Then you assume to know my photographic preference and efforts, and that "the landscape tells a different story." Which of course is your assumption since you don't even know whether my world revolves around landscape photography. It doesn't. But you didn't know that. Still, you assume "the landscape tells a different story" when you don't know anything about my preference or style.
Then you restate that you didn't insult anyone, and finish by yet again insulting Nigel by saying that "this work - these images - are worthless."
All due respect, PMB, but you're out of line here. Check yourself. Nigel's review isn't a problem. Your denial is. Please be more cognitive with your statements. Thanks.
"All due respect" Sir 7 - stop looking for the moral high ground, and just look at the images. Photography (and landscape photography) is bigger than you or me.
You probably don't remember it was me. But you threw those landscape photographers' names around at me when you pulled your same condescending crap regarding the Leica S3. And after reviewing their work I broke down for you how 1) they're generally shooting 3x4 MF bodies, not Leica, 2) that helicopters don't come with cameras (regarding the aerial perspective making Burtynsky's work special), and 3) that a lot of the "landscape" photography you're referring to is actually street/journalism and not even landscape (Ian Teh), and finally that 4) the S3 is not meant by Leica to be a slow/methodical camera to use as you argued, but rather a street/location machine as their marketing clearly indicates.
Yeah, I remember that conversation. You eventually shut up completely after I totally busted you out.
Now, I have no intent to embarrass you nor to insult you. But you better chill the frack out. Your unjustifiable crap attitude is disruptive and obviously unappreciated. Take a few days off.
@PMB: Surely you jest when in the same comment where you assert that you "insulted no one" you also slam the photographer's work as "worthless." it's like a self parody.
Also, it's instructive that when I pointed out that his work has value, and challenged you to offer your own to establish some credibility to criticize, you simply recited a list of names of other landscape photographers. As Sir 7 noted, of course there are other landscape photographers out there with great work, some even greater than Nigel's...but that doesn't take away from the value of Nigels' work.
If any of those photographers come here and criticize Nigel's photos, then I will listen. But they would never do that because the true greats have too much class to do that and want to encourage others.
And if Nigel's photos are not for you, please don't just dismiss them as "worthless." That's arrogant and ignorant.
Sir 7 & Thoughts R Us, I’ll pm you guys with my website (you won’t like my stuff, but maybe will be reassured that I’m a practising photographer).
I enjoy discussing work. You two jokers might well come back at me with “your stuff is sh*te” or “you’re work is boring and banal.” You might call me talentless or arrogant – fine. My work is out there, get stuck in. I’m an honest artist, say what you think about my work – but don’t attack me as a person.
I was in London today, and bought a book by Olaf Otto Becker, “Under the Nordic Light” So beautiful how he depicts the Icelandic landscape whilst also denoting the passage of time, and the Anthropocene dilemma.
Nigel Danson and Erez Marom seem to be creating work that looks like baubles; so shiny, colourful and kitsch. I’m sitting here in the ‘living room’ with a fab Christmas tree, and loving it – but it isn’t art. Sorry.
PMB, since you’ve posted none of your own images, and your DPReview Gallery is empty, consider the implications of your comment. Art is subjective. I think there is some which is truly bad, but Nigel’s certainly is not bad by any means. I think his work is marvelous; I don’t understand all the invective.
MarshallG, you seem not to have read the thread. I don't post my work here because I think it's not appropriate to this audience. But I did send my website address to 'Thoughts' and 'Sir7', in private messages; since when they have both mysteriously withdrawn... Because they had criticised me for not displaying my work.
"Art is subjective" - what does that even mean? At a guess it might be that you think the value or quality of artistic works is entirely dependant on the assessment of each individual viewer. In which case my (truly brilliant) dog asserts that the label on his bone is a masterpiece. ;)
All of the artists I've worked with are aware of the separation between them as people, and their work. I can take someone saying that my work is worthless, useless, ignorant or irrelevant because of this or that characteristic; I'll listen to that with interest.
I call this work decorative fluff, it's my opinion. You call it art. and that's yours. Nothing personal.
Andy Warhol painted a Campbell’s Soup label and called it art; and millions agreed. I suppose this puts your dog in good company.
If you sell your photos in galleries and make lots money and/or earn great acclaim, who am I to say your work is bad? I don’t have to like it, but if many others do, then I suppose that art has touched its audience, and connected with them. Job well done, I say. Nigel’s work certainly hits that milestone. You don’t have to like it, and I’d be happy to look at work you prefer. But he and his admirers don’t deserve your insults. I just feel that it’s very unkind.
But DarnGoodPhotos has a very salient point: if you bother to comment on this thread, then you obviously care. And the fact that you commented a second time means you care even more.
The things I genuinely don't care about I don't spend any time reading, much less commenting. That's the great thing about the internet...if you don't care about an article, going somewhere else is just a click or tap away.
And here I'm commenting for a 3rd time to show that not only I care, but I CARE for a video I didn't watch. Are you serious? The above's comment is just a rant on my rant, an easy and predictable response. There are hundreds of photography channels on YT dealing with gear reviews, as it seems the world is full of experts. Others are serious and objective, others funny and enjoyable, others are plain cr@p. I just don't think we must give a monkey's on why any X "renown" or renown photographer felt the need to demonstrate how he/she found the (quite possibly sponsored) holy grail and decided to switch from X to Z, or back to X again, while at the same time another renown decided to switch from A to B, and yet another one decided to stay loyal to C. Nikon hired "renown" photographers a few months ago to do just so in the marketing campaign of the Z. Did anyone care? Everyone anticipated the objective reviews of the final products.
KonstantinosK is in a logical trap: the more he comments on how he doesn't care, the more he proves how much he does care.
I know that everyone here has all sorts of topics and internet postings that they do not care about at all, and you know what...we don't even look at those. For instance, I don't care about reading about broccoli...so I don't do it, much less go to some site with a post on broccoli...perhaps a recipe...and then comment about how yucky tasing broccoli is, or how no one should care.
I am constantly amazed how some people just have to rain on other's parades and spread negativity for no good reason.
That's a good video. I think that the biggest take back for me (because I've already chosen against the Z6/Z7 cameras) was that the adapter doesn't allow for a quick-release plate to be permanently mounted. That, by itself, would be a deal-breaker for me.
However, I'm looking forward to the Z9 in 2021. I'm sure Nikon will take care of most of the current issues: Shadow Banding AF-C lag More dust Adapter QR-Plate bungle Higher base ISO (Z7) Low light performance High FPS only with turning off stuff Lack of Lenses for new Mount
Plus whatever else I'm forgetting. It's a great start... but that's what it is, a start. I don't want a starting camera, I want a refined camera.
So I'll wait. And I'm sure Nikon will reward me with a Z9 that has 60MP and takes care of most of the problems with the Z7.
Thank you, Nigel! This is the right way to review a camera. Getting advice from a true master who describes how the tool applies to his work is the best way to learn about the equipment. I'm glad that he doesn't cover all aspects of photography; those reviews are for other photographers. This came out as a very genuine and authentic review. He stayed inside his zone of expertise, to the cameras he's used and the types of photography he does. I loved it.
Geez, PMB, what's your beef with Nigel? He may not be Peter Lik, Galen Rowell, or Marsel Van Oosten but he's not talentless. And Nigel is sharing what's important to him and he's not "gear-naive."
For me, I'd take a D850 over a Z7 anyday for every kind of photography you can think of, other than when I am manual-focusing and/or using a lens that doesn't have VR when I need VR. But Nigel's review and opinions are legit, even if they differ from yours and mine.
pmb..what is your problem? Do link your video review and your website so we can critique it. Another armchair critic and that's fine, but you are taking it to another level.
I think PostModernBloke's beef is with his switch from DSLR to mirrorless. If the video was about why he's sticking with DSLR over mirrorless he would be praising Nigel as a genius.
@Sactojim, just asking but do you have opinions about politics without ever being in a government politics? Why does people disallow political discussion unless they have been exactly in the same status as the people they talk about?
How about for action shots???I would think that EVF might not be ideal. Even the z6 might not be Ideal, there has to be a lag on what your are seeing in the EVF from real time....Sports (surfing), BIF. Airshows... I will be waiting on the next generation for now....
MILC_man, you don't have any shots in your gallery at all! Zero! But vbuhay has plenty of action shots in his gallery. There's one of a diving pelican that's outstanding. And, yes, I think it's very fair to ask if a mirrorless camera can deliver that kind of performance, if that's the kind of photography you do. Nigel, for instance, is a landscape photographer (a wonderful one), but he doesn't need fast, tracking autofocus for landscape work.
Because I am interested in buying one or more if it fits my purpose....I actually had one on preorder(Z6) but had to pull back due to the "Hybrid AF" and the sensitivity range of the AF Sensor....which I am learning will not do what I want to do....I currently have 4 different bodies which as a whole will do what I want to shoot at, but I cannot carry 4 bodies and lenses when I go shooting. I was hoping I could replace my D500, D800e and D750 with the Z6, at this point It probably cannot do that....
So MILC man, where are the photographs you’ve taken with your Mirrorless Camera? You are very smug and certain that you know everything about what it takes to shoot the best action shots, and the rest of us don’t know what we’re doing, so why don’t you show us what you’ve done?
My experience with both EVF and OVF for action is one is just as good as the other. The idea that EVFs don't do well with action is outdated and wrong.
The current leading edge DSLMs with their fast sensor readout (A9, X-T3, Zs, and some m4/3s) have close to zero-blackout EVFs. The "Show me your photo" request in this context seems really dumb since how would taken photos demonstrate a lack of lag? You either believe reviews and anecdotal statements or you don't.
Already 5-6 years ago EVF lag became under 16ms, that was the delay for your first frame.
Now are you doing the typical illogical claim that such delay is a deal breaker, when your typical reaction time is way past 300ms? So ~300ms is not a problem, but ~316ms is a deal breaker? And now today those are 6ms or less, so it is still a deal breaker?
Still hate to read poor people's comments on Nikon's sensors produced by Sony... It's like calling iPhone Chinese brand... I have a hundred examples, don't get me started.
Well, the iPhone is Chinese. Not that that's good or bad, but that is where it's made.
And yeah, I don't really care that Sony makes Nikon's sensors. All I care about is that they're really good sensors. But Nikon should be concerned that someday Sony will just only make sensors for Sony cameras, and therefore Nikon should just make their own sensor factory. Hopefully Nikon is able to. It's not good to rely on a strong competitor's parent company to make your product(s)...
A few years back, it cost over a Billion $ for 1 Wafer Fab, I am sure its is over $2 billion now. So How many Sensors will Nikon need to sell to make Profit? The Economics does not really work. I doubt that Nikon would or could sell sensors to other Camera manufacturers fearing competition so.....it was a good strategy for Sony to disconnect their sensor business with the Electronics business...
Sony Semiconductor, the part of Sony that makes their image sensors, is a separate devision than the Imaging division that makes the cameras. Sony Semi has to show it's own P&L sheet, and thus would not stop selling to companies like Nikon or Fuji. Sony Semi would not want to lose a customer.
Sony Semi makes most of its money from sales of image sensors to smartphone companies like Apple, and also to car companies.
Sony APS-C A6500 is amazing and much smaller than a Nikon Z7. I compared side by side at expo plus show and was surprise how big the Z7 really is. Still for Nikon glass owners its a major leap of faith!
Can't understand why someone wanting a lighter kit would go 10% of the way by having a mirrorless FX camera with the same FX lenses as one would use on a DSLR. If someone wants to have a truly lighter kit they need to go to MFT cameras and their lenses which cut the size and weight by 50% compared to any FX kit.
He stated the advantages for him being able to have more resolution that what his D810 offered to print large and crop. MFT would not fit his expectations.
I would be very interested in him doing blind test on prints made from shots taken with D850 and say Olympus M1 II. Would he be able to see the difference between 46 or whatever and 20Mpx at the normal viewing distance and the sizes he typically prints?
It is so weird to hear people talk about digital mirrorless as if it's some kind of a new phenomenon. We're almost into 2019, where have you been the last 10 years?
The tech may have been around for 10 years but why invest in it unless it checks off most of the boxes for serious photographers? DSLR's still exist for a reason. Only in the last couple of years have mirrorless closed the gap. With their first ff offering Nikon's almost there. People take notice when the time is right. Now is the time. Why would any landscape photographer invest in Olympus or Panasonic M4/3 10 years ago when a FF DSLR would have blown the doors off of any mirrorless?
Imagine, the 28-70 2.8 with the FTZ and on the Z-Series....not bashing, but that's one huge thing then as combo in front of a small DSLM. Nope, better a upcoming D760, or used, mint D700 for myself. ;)
Nigel has used Fuji cameras on his channel before, but has said for the print sizes he goes for he needed more MP. I think he shot Fuji X for a while too, check his channel history.
@FujLiver: Because aside from exceptional IQ and very high resolution, Sonys are pretty much impossible to get excited about when you're used to high-end/pro Nikon/Canon DSLRs. I have a 7RM2 and truly hate it. 3rd-gen Sonys are better, but compared to top DSLRs, Sonys are at a tremendous ergonomic disadvantage. And as Nigel mentioned, ergonomics are really what matters since at this point in time sensor performance is merely pedantic technical debate stuff. Because as a tool, you have to simply be able to use the camera, not fight with it or create workarounds. I personally don't think the Z7/Z6's ergos are that much better than Sony's, but Nikon's menus are light years ahead of Sony's. For landscape, like Nigel shoots, having a ton of properly-placed buttons and dials isn't crucial and that's probably why he's fine with his Z7. But for street photography, there is not a mirrorless out there that can hold a candle to a good DSLR...
@Sir 7 - I own the most expensive sony milc there is, and I am not the slightest bit excited about any camera body that canikon makes, because it's all primitive technology... and i'm not about to go back to holding a heavy dslr brick in my hand, because it's an ergonomic fail.
so no, your ergonomic preferences are not preferable to the dslr fine-tuning af nightmare, failed ovf performance, s-l-o-w fps rates, slow dslr lenses that can't match the 20fps performance of sony fe glass, ancient dslr lens designs that have weak p.q., zero native canikon milc lens selection, etc.
@kreislauf - I posted half a dozen very specific reasons why dslrs fail, in direct response to the Sir 7 claims about "high-end/pro Nikon/Canon DSLRs".
I even prefaced my post with "@Sir 7", so people like you wouldn't get confused.
so all I hear from you is someone who doesn't own sony, trying to tear it down.
Lol, MILCy. That's why all the sports pros have made the switch to the a9, right? For the better-designed and faster-focusing lenses, better ergonomics, and the difference between the "s-l-o-w" 12fps and 14fps of Nikon and Canon (as opposed to Sony's 20fps), right?
Oh, wait... Sports pros are still shooting Nikon and Canon, not Sony...
And for the record, when the a9 shoots uncompressed RAW its frame rate is 12fps. Excuse me, s-l-o-w 12fps. ;)
Oh yeah, MILCy, and since you're shooting the a9, you're not shooting even a "good" landscape camera. 24MP just isn't enough, and its sensor similarly to the D5's, while great at high ISO, just doesn't have the latitude of real landscape sensors like the D850's and the 7RM2's and 7RM3's at low ISO.
But you were talking mainly about ergonomics, and I'll give the a9 props for being a step in the right direction for Sony. But Sony has a lot of steps to go on that long, sorry l-o-n-g, road ahead to match Nikon/Canon ergonomics/haptics.
Lol. You think the P1000 is my only camera? I guess you missed the first photo in my gallery that I uploaded for for Stevo23 who, coincidentally-enough, accused me of not having specific gear I mentioned having. Which, of course only accounts for a fraction of my actual gear.
And I never mentioned having an a9. I said I have a 7RM2. Go take a look at my first gallery photo if you don't believe that.
Keep tellin' yourself whatever you have to to try to discredit me. But I'd rather just have discussions. I don't have time for childish name-calling or flame wars. I'm just here to talk about photography and photo gear with those who have actual experience and creditworthy opinions.
Says the guy that posts gallery photos of... well, nothing at all.
Cognitive Dissonance is a beotch, eh? Keep tellin' yourself whatever you have to, MILCy. Keep it up and I may post a photo offering you an Oreo too. :D Except I'm out of Oreos at the moment... :(
Thank you for a great video and I liked the crop of the foggy forest: beautiful! Thank you also for the links to specific sections of the video - nice! Apparently he gets by with the 24-70mm for his landscapes and does not see a pressing need for 1kg-plus F1.2 or 1.4 primes while hiking :-) I applaud Nikon for making some F4 zooms for the Z.
Yes but they need to release a f4 70~200 first or at least at the same time as the 2.8. As of now no mention of it. Odd for promoting a smaller package. First time I heard of the problem with having to remove some plates to use the adaptor. I'd love to have that Z7 with kit but with limited lens options that are available now and in the near future it is causing me pause. I may update my X-E1 to T3 for when I really need more compact and keep going with the D800e otherwise.
Unfortunately Nikon and Canon have had a captive market for sometime egged on by camera shop people who only recommend one or the other. At least Nikon users can clam good sensors (Sony) and genuine thought to good handling. Canon seems to be following its old game with mirrorless, i.e. hold back on specification and overcharge. If it ain't broke ..... Sony is so far ahead of Nikon and Canon now that they will be playing catchup for ever ... and I have no interest in going back. Even the criticism of Sony for only launching high price best in class lenses can now be side stepped by the awesome and relatively cheap Samyang AF range.
@FujiLiver While I agree with some of your statements, I do find issue with parts of it. Nikon uses and has used sensors from many different fab houses, and many of those fab houses are using Nikon steppers, which make those sensors...so it's not as clear cut as one might think or try to make people think. In fact many times Nikon has gotten better results out of similar Sony sensors than even sony has. (I know the Sony guys are going to jump on this) As far as catching up, Nikon already has the best focusing system in the D5/D500, Nikon now has the best built, best weather-sealed, best user interface, best viewfinder, and best FF video capable mirrorless, and largest own brand lens system and ecosystem that works with the Zs. Yes it's not the fastest focus in tracking, but it does everything else pretty well, so where exactly is Nikon far behind?
Nikon's 2nd gen Zs will almost certainly be what everyone was expecting in the 1st gen. Although I'm betting Nikon will stick with the stupid ergos of the 1st gen Zs simply because they're playing Sony-clone. Like Sony finally did with the a9, Nikon will be releasing a high-performance MILC with good ergonomics ("Z8", "Z1"?) in the near future that will likely impress with its AF ability. My hope for the Z8 is that they don't put a low-DR/high-ISO sensor in it like the D5's. Hopefully Nikon will release 2 versions with the same body the way they did with the Z7/Z6. The Z8 could have the journalism/sports sensor, and the Z9 could have the landscape/portrait sensor.
Nikon does have an incredible knack for repeatedly letting us down when the answers are really really obvious though. Hoping anyway...
Hi, I don't understand the criticism about the video. Danson is an individual photographer who is reporting on his personal experience with whatever gear he is using. If he likes it, he is going to rave about it and that's OK. I find these articles/videos from pro's using different equipment in the course of their work extremely useful because of their hands-on practicality - the fact that Danson is showing actually prints of his work is fundamental to me -. I have my own preferences but this is useful research material. I have been using M43 equipment for years, together with my FF Nikon. My E-M5 II cameras are more than all-right for me because I don't print too large. If I had too, I would upgrade to a FF mirrorless system. For what it's worth, all the pros about the Nikon Z7 that Danson is mentioning perfectly apply to my Olympus gear, with the inherent but irrelevant to me limitations of a 16Mp M43 sensor. I hope that DPR will continue publishing this kind of material.
That was my only issue with the video. Nigel talked about the benefits of ibis and it’s use in other cameras and completely ignored Olympus. In most tests I’ve seen the Em1Mark2 is the equal in IQ of a XT2 or Xt3, but many photogs seem to ignore Olympus in favour of the x system cameras. Maybe as shooting mainly on tripods ibis is irrelevant? And the bit about having to clean the sensor so much was hilarious, who the hell wants to do that?
I don't think it's fair to criticize Nigel for 'ignoring' Olympus. He was discussing Nikon equipment in the context of what he uses and why he likes this particular camera. Simple as that.
Not every video needs to include a detailed analysis of specific achievements by all manufacturers across the entire industry. Sometimes it's just nice to hear from a working pro who tells us what they do and don't like about a particular product.
Nice video but to much of a free add for Nikon. Nothing wrong with the Z7. But his whole arguments of convenience and light weight is the reason that many are using mirrorless of other brands for a long time, or even stick to a manual focus Leica M.
It’s a video review of a Nikon camera, ffs. What did you expect him to do, tape over the name and leave us guessing? He also namechecks the XT3; not something you’d do in a Nikon ad. Not if you wanted to get paid by Nikon, anyway. ;-)
Actually, this video is supposedly about Nigel's switch to mirrorless from DSLR.
He has chosen to use the Z7 though, and is sharing his thoughts on it relative to his style of landscape photography/videography.
I personally think Nigel is a little too forgiving of the Z7's shortcomings but I'd definitely consider this more of a review than an advertisement. And a pretty good review at that.
It's funny to see the Nikon and Canon shooters belatedly discovering the obvious. The advantages of mirrorless cameras and EVF have long been known by the owners of Sony, Panasonic, Olympus, Leica and Hasselblad cameras.
Yeah right I had the Sony R1 APS-C mirror less, except it was almost useless for flash: it could not focus in the dark and the viewfinder insisted on showing me the image (black) per manual preset for my flash. "Correct" but useless. I have had 6 happy years with a DSLR since 2012, but progress in viewfinders and AF makes mirror less interesting once again.
Aye, me too. Still have one and sometimes use it. If they brought out an updated version with 24mp, a metal body and weatherproofing, it would be the only camera many of us would ever need.
... which, come to think of it, is probably why they haven’t. ;-)
Another R1 user here.... its a 2005 camera and I still love it, there was obviously a good reason that Sony dropped the concept, it was just too good for comfort, they could easily have built an R2 and an R3 with better sensors and improved EVF, the handling is terrific, it was like a work in progress camera, the potential was so obvious but they never followed through with a successor, the R1 has also proved very durable and reliable
There are many positive things about mirrorless, but with the Nikon Z7 weight is the wrong argument. Count the Adapter and one more spare battery in and you are almost equal between Z7 and D850. Look at the weight of the S 50 mm f1,8 which is 415g against 225g of the old 50 mm. Quality of the new lenses is better though. It has a reason why people who want a real lightweight system prefer crop cameras like the Fuji.
The tiny old 50mm F1.8 and 1.4 lenses cannot hold a candle to the new Nikon F1.8 50mm lens or the Sigma 50mm and Tamron 45mm lenses. APS-C is great, but you heard the man: 24 Mpix is fine for A2 prints, so a FF body with 45 Mpix gives enormous cropping potential and transforms the 24 - 70 into a 24-105. Weight saved by cropping. That is also quite a bonus for long lenses.
Yeah, for big landscape prints FF or larger sensors with really high resolution really is/are the format(s) to go with. APS-C, while I use it for most of my photography, is never my choice for landscape.
And if Nigel really cares so much about weight in his pack, he should switch from beer in glass bottles to liquor in a plastic bottle! :D
Re: "people who want a real lightweight system prefer crop cameras like the Fuji." Or perhaps the Panasonic G series or Olympus OMD series, micro four thirds.
M43 is an awful choice if you're planning to make large to very large prints. APS-C isn't great either, but better. There's a reason that Medium Format digital backs alone can cost tens of thousands of dollars: bigger sensors are better for pro landscape, and there is no getting around that...
Some m43 cameras have pixel-shift to produce images with FF resolution and noise levels. The only caveat is that you can’t currently shoot those handheld, and scenes with more than minor movement can show artifacts. But there are many types of landscape shots that can benefit from pixel-shift mode (and you get a non-pixel-shift image of the first exposure as a backup in case you can’t tolerate the artifacts).
True, pixel-shift is quite cool, with varying degrees of efficacy in different methods/brands. Provided, of course, that there is no movement throughout the entire exposure(s). That's pretty limiting though. For me personally, it's just not ready for primetime. Hopefully soon though. :)
i love Nikon and I am about to purchase the new Z6 to replace my trusty D750 BUT... this review sounded like a paid advertisement to me :(
Why does he has to say the name 'Nikon' in front of every sentence? "My Nikon Z7" was said repeatedly during the video. Normally people will say 'my Z7'... just my 2 cents.
"Think about it twice - you can't use your AF-D lenses with the Z-Series, because they're is no internal screw-drive AF Motor inside these Bodies."
You can use them - you just won't have autofocus. In fact, this is the same limitation you'd have on the D40x, except with the Zs you'd have much better focus aids.
What I said is that it is not normal to say 'my Nikon Z7' all of the time. It is not the way people talks. I am a Nikon fan and I intend to buy the Z6. Sorry, Nikon Z6.
Thanks for the clarification. i like Nigel and I think he is very talented. Perhaps in the future he could used a more "lose" script while preparing his videos.. I don't know. It just 'sounded' like a paid review. I am obvioiusly not in his head to know what he was thinking.
Also, mind that the reviews that you guys have published on the Z series aren't the most favourable and Nigel sounded like the camera is the best in class. Of course, as I am also a Landscape photographer, I don't care as much about the AF issues the same as Nigel.
Closing, I wish you and all the DPreview team a wonderful Christmas holidays and a Happy New Year :)
Nah, this was way more "review" than it was "advertisement". And really, landscape is about the least demanding kind of photography there is. So, it's truly a very fundamental (not demanding by any means) review of a few very obvious substantial differences between DSLR and ML. I can even get my 7RM2 to work really well for landscape photography, and that's almost entirely all I ever use it for. Take the 7RM2 out into the real world, however, and it's useless. But, Nigel's only talking about landscape, so...
El Diablo, thanks for your feedback and holiday wishes. We don't require DPReview contributors to agree with all our findings. Certainly, there will be times when their opinions will diverge from ours, and that's OK.
Our tests are designed to evaluate a range of features in order to provide useful information to different types of photographers. In Nigel's case, he's telling us how the camera works for him and the work that he does.
Very interesting and well thought out article. One thing I noted while watching the video is that much of what he said is about mirrorless cameras could be applied to Sony and Canon mirrorless as well.
if you have Canon glass go for the Canon camera. If you have Nikon glass... well, it is obvious (I am getting the Z6). if you don#t have any glass, go for the Sony as their AF system is above the rest by far (specially that Eye AF) or wait for Gen II of Nikon & Canon.
ps. For me Fuji / Dx is out of the question, otherwise, great choice also.
Yeah, Sony - not Canon: Canon skimped on IBIS and he stressed IBIS. That said I did manage some nice waterfall shots with the D800 and Tamron 15-30mm stabilized lens. Canon is possibly saving IBIS for a high resolution and much more expensive version.
Take it to the nearest Nikon repair shop, same as he’d do with a DSLR. The days when the local blacksmith or watchmaker could fix a camera are long gone. And the Nikon agent would have the training and spares for the Z 7.
Yeah, like Hasa said, Nigel would do what any other expert/pro does when on a trip and a body fails; leave it in the room or ship it off to a Service Center, and then bring your other bodies with you to shoot...
Finally Nikon also understood (Canon knew is many years ago!) - they must pay a lot of money to so called popular photographers and others will buy their equipment... Ordinary modern marketing...
Hes not paid by nikon.. hes just been using nikon and fuji for a long time and saw his video where his tripod fell and brokehis d810 camera so he had to get a new one and probably just choosed to get the z7..
Lol, I'm SSSOOOOOO not buying a Z7, or ANY camera for that matter, after watching how it's used for landscape photography! Landscape is the least-demanding genre for bodies, provided resolution and sensor performance are up to the task. Landscape is so undemanding that you can even use Leica bodies to shoot landscape...
for landscape i think number one is proper lenses, and some normal weather resisted cameras with at least middle or high resolution and normal dynamic range. For example, Pentax K1 is a best there, I think. With 3 pro zooms or some fixes too. Nikon has many good lenses, Canon also has them, Zeiss, Tamron, Some others too...
No offense, kobakokh, but for landscape, lens caliber isn't all that important so long as the lenses don't have much distortion. Since you're likely shooting at or around f8, edge-to-edge sharpness and good color and contrast are pretty much givens with all but bottom-rung lenses. And yes, the appropriate focal length for your desired photo is very important. And granted, ultrawide and ultra-ultrawide lenses are generally pro-caliber.
IBIS as in (list of some cameras with IBIS). The list did not include ANY Olympus or Panasonic model. These are the companies that originated interchangeable lens mirrorless cameras. Oly has had IBIS from the start; recent Panasonic models now have it also.
Minolta invented IBIS and Olympus and Panasonic "just copied" - teasing of course :-) Who cares if Ansel Adams had IBIS or not (he managed without) - so long as Nikon has the good sense to include it in the Zs.
Well - he did list some camera companies that make cameras with ibis. He didn't list them all, and he didn't even say "and others". In particular, since he likes the smaller size of the Z6 because it's mirrorless it troubled me that he didn't give a nod to the first two companies that introduced mirrorless interchangeable lens cameras about 10 years ago ... one of which had ibis from day one, now they both do, neither was mentioned.
Panasonic and Olympus don't make FF yet. And i personally don't feel they're worthy of mention anyway, and it seems Nigel feels that way too. Nigel did mention the X-T3, which is odd as is not FF, nor does does it have IBIS. However, Fuji's color is something special and on a tripod IBIS doesn't matter. Plus, i personally prefer Fuji's ergos over Olympus, and at present, i just don't like the look of Panasonic images. I personally don't feel any APS-C MILC is worth mentioning for serious landscape work. But if i had to pick one, it would be a Fuji. And of course M43 sensors are simply too small for serious large-print IQ so no matter how good they are at everything else, they'd be a very poor choice for pro landscape.
Yeah, I mean, 4/3 is really limited when you get critical. And big-to-huge prints are really demanding. All flaws/inadequacies will be revealed.
I'll give Lumix credit where credit is due. The G9's images are quite nice. Lumix has come a long way. And its pixel-shift is quite impressive although it is not a practical way to shoot except for static objects tripod-mounted, obviously. The G9's image look/feel approaches that of the D7100, though the G9 clearly pulls more magenta in grays and darks. And the D7100 already pulls a little too magenta in grays and darks.
4/3 is a really cool, compact, capable, and flexible format that routinely churns out fantastic images. And often, due to size, enables getting shots big/heavy cameras simply wouldn't/couldn't. But there is no getting around the limitation of that small sensor. Size really does matter. And if you're going to make large gallery prints, while 4/3 may pull it off once in awhile, FF and Medium Format simply deliver.
Except that Nikon has added quite a bit of optics in front of the EVF, to help correct the image and give you a much more pleasant viewing experience. The Nikon viewfinder actually has aspheric lens elements. It is the best viewfinder I have looked through!!!
Yes, the Nikon implementation of the Sony panel is totally different (and better) than the Sony implementation. This is one example of where just reading specs won't tell the whole story.
once again we see misinformation about sony, in dpr article comments... no, Ebrahim, the a7riii evf does not "drop resolution", that is nonsense... the sony a9 has the best evf, because the video feed is powered by the extremely fast readout speed of the stacked sensor, which canikon does not have in any camera.
@NexLupus - "Except that Nikon has added quite a bit of optics in front of the EVF... The Nikon viewfinder actually has aspheric lens elements."
except not, because sony does that also, it's hardly a revelation:
Fully agree ... the poor original marketing material from Nikon at Z6/Z7 launch was just a shame vs the quality of these products (not perfect though).
No offense, but landscape-only photography isn't really "real world". Landscape is an isolated genre that also happens to be the least-demanding on body performance.
It's actually the highest demanding on very key elements: 1- Resolution 2- Dynamic Range 3- Colour rendition 4- Noise performance 5- Autofocus (S-AF) 6- Weather Sealing 7- Battery life 8- EVF
But yes it's not really any stress on the burst shooting performance. I use my Nikon D3400 for Landscapes & Nightscapes instead of my EOS R, just because I like the contrast range better and don't need the greatest skin colours or ergonomics or C-AF.
Not that Nigel is the authority or anything, but like he said, all modern sensors are plenty good enough in all metrics and therefore among the big brands sensor performance is merely academic. Even Canon, who lagged for many years in sensor tech, makes good sensors now. Any high- res sensor is good enough.
AF doesn't matter because in landscape you've got plenty of time to focus; even manually.
I don't shoot video so i don't care about video performance, but Nigel does. And contrary to what you just said about AF-C not mattering, Nigel considers good AF-C really important for video. But that's probably only because he films himself walking around the frame. Continued...
Many place importance on weather sealing, but i don't. I don't expose my naked gear to rain. I either put a plastic bag over the rig or use a housing. Nobody should get in the habit of shooting in the rain with ANY gear or they will eventually regret it. Pretty much any camera can handle a brief sprinkle but you shouldn't expose any gear to much more than that for any period of time. Sure, we've all heard stories on DPR about some camera handling a heavy downpour. Lol, yeah keep shooting like that and we'll be hearing quite a different story about rain performance... :D Done...
I actually agree with each word. I don't care much about weather sealing and thus I say I use my Nikon D3400 as my landscape shooter, but for the opposite reason: because I subject it to shooting in the rain on regular basis and never had a glitch, so it's cool, and it's so damn cheap that using my non weather sealed D3400 + 10-20mm VR is actually SAFER than my EOS R + 24-105 RF. If something goes wonky with the later, I lose a 90.000 EGP camera versus endangering a 7000 EGP one!
All I do care for landscape/nightscape photography, my favourite genre of all time, is an amazing sensor quality which Nikons ALL from a D3400 up to Z7 smoke the competition even Sony. They the highest IQ snappers on the market below going medium format (Nikon 24mp APS-C is beyond any APS-C including the latest XT-3 and Sony own cameras + same sensors like A6000 in cheer IQ, and D850 is beyond any FF camera at any price and even nearly identical to small MF 50mp cameras.
D3400 versus an EOS R, shadow pushability is markedly inferior, banding occures, worse battery life of mirrorless, and I trust the basic Contrast detection systems more for accuracy in landscapes than even DPAF.
AF in AF-S in Liveview is instantanious and 100% accurate (contrast detection), and that 400grams beast sends the files to my Ipad Air AS I shoot. I haven't taken out a card in ages. I just directly edit on Adobe Mobile. It's simply light, takes higher IQ images, body + UWA are cheaper than an R kit kens alone + shoots longer on a charge, like twice.
With a FF R, you whip it out for the GORGEOUS skin colours + shallow DOF + shooting anything moving + of course video. For that genre it's a whole different results league, especially portraits. Eye-AF with the 50/1.2 RF is arguably the single best portrait machine on the market. Different tools for different jobs.
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