Masses? Retired photographer... WORKING photographer. Nikon system since 1970's... Never saw many Olympus systems by photographers who get paid. Maybe Oly will take over the market, but I doubt it...

Nah, Nikon will keep making DSLRs for a long time. I really wouldn't mind ML, but not the jokes that Canikon recently released.

No doubt, but I would be interested in the reasons for the remaining 20%... they seem to be there. This is what a good review is all about.

Yup, as a controller as well. Wireless isn't flawless, and any gear can fail. Not having a built-in flash as a backup controller is a big negative. But even as a primary lighting source, or simply for fill, i get great results with pop-up. Those who hate on pop-ups just want to argue...

It's like, "Look at me, I don't have a pop-up therefore I'm a pro". Never mind auto everything and scene modes in the menu :)

Did you watch the video? It’s largy a review of the camera itself.

If you look at Nigel's website and recommended gear, you will see he also uses Fuji products. So it's not like he's a paid Nikon Ambassador, like, let's say Joe McNally.

But tbcass has it right: Nigel is really trying to give you his opinion of the advantages/disadvantages of mirrorless over DSLR...he just happens to use Nikon.

It seems that DSLR evangelists hate any article by anybody that claims that a mirrorless camera can be preferable for some people. While I do not own a mirrorless camera I could care less if someone prefers them. Both Mirrorless and DSLRs can get any photographic job done.

I think Nigel Danson’s work is wonderful.

For postcards, it can’t be beaten.

Geez...somebody is always a critic. Nigel's work is excellent. He seems to have a thriving photography business, encompassing selling photos, giving photo tours, Youtube educational channel, etc. That takes a whole lot of hard work and requires some degree of skills.

I would like to see the critics do better. Then they can talk.

OK, I’ve never offered direct links in these comments because I have no commercial agenda (as opposed to DPR maybe?).

But I‘ll offer some names of photographers breaking ground and offering interesting perspectives in contemporary landscape practice. Google them if you’re nterested:

Alec Soth, Camille Seaman, Alex Boyd, Darren Almond, David Spero, Edward Burtynsky, Espen Rasmussen, Ian Teh, Isabelle Hayeur, Jem Southam, John Gossage, Jorn Vanhofen, Neal Rantoul, Olaf Otto Becker, Paul Graham, Pieter Hugo, Richard Misrach, Simon Roberts, Stephen Shore, Edmund Clark, Willy Doherty, Robert Adams, etc. etc…..

Sure, there are other good/great landscape photographers out there with advice to give. Doesn't justify your insults to Nigel though.

Sir 7, I insulted no one, but I did comment on the images.

If you had any knowledge of landscape photography, you might have had something useful to say about my last reply. But no, none of those photographers; no history of landscape photography; no academic research or cultural awareness, is going to influence you.

You want to see, and you probably try to make, pretty pictures that make you feel warm and safe and happy. But the landscape tells a different story.

Most of all, I didn't insult anyone. But I did point out that this work - these images - are worthless. It's about the pictures.

Your saying Nigel's review was "commercial nonsense" and that "the landscape will benefit not one iota from Mr Danson's ignorant clichés" is insulting to Nigel.

Then you insulted me by saying "If you had any knowledge of landscape photography, you might have had something useful to say..."

Then you assume to know my photographic preference and efforts, and that "the landscape tells a different story." Which of course is your assumption since you don't even know whether my world revolves around landscape photography. It doesn't. But you didn't know that. Still, you assume "the landscape tells a different story" when you don't know anything about my preference or style.

Then you restate that you didn't insult anyone, and finish by yet again insulting Nigel by saying that "this work - these images - are worthless."

All due respect, PMB, but you're out of line here. Check yourself. Nigel's review isn't a problem. Your denial is. Please be more cognitive with your statements. Thanks.

You probably don't remember it was me. But you threw those landscape photographers' names around at me when you pulled your same condescending crap regarding the Leica S3. And after reviewing their work I broke down for you how 1) they're generally shooting 3x4 MF bodies, not Leica, 2) that helicopters don't come with cameras (regarding the aerial perspective making Burtynsky's work special), and 3) that a lot of the "landscape" photography you're referring to is actually street/journalism and not even landscape (Ian Teh), and finally that 4) the S3 is not meant by Leica to be a slow/methodical camera to use as you argued, but rather a street/location machine as their marketing clearly indicates.

Yeah, I remember that conversation. You eventually shut up completely after I totally busted you out.

Now, I have no intent to embarrass you nor to insult you. But you better chill the frack out. Your unjustifiable crap attitude is disruptive and obviously unappreciated. Take a few days off.

@PMB: Surely you jest when in the same comment where you assert that you "insulted no one" you also slam the photographer's work as "worthless." it's like a self parody.

Also, it's instructive that when I pointed out that his work has value, and challenged you to offer your own to establish some credibility to criticize, you simply recited a list of names of other landscape photographers. As Sir 7 noted, of course there are other landscape photographers out there with great work, some even greater than Nigel's...but that doesn't take away from the value of Nigels' work.

If any of those photographers come here and criticize Nigel's photos, then I will listen. But they would never do that because the true greats have too much class to do that and want to encourage others.

And if Nigel's photos are not for you, please don't just dismiss them as "worthless." That's arrogant and ignorant.

MarshallG, you seem not to have read the thread. I don't post my work here because I think it's not appropriate to this audience. But I did send my website address to 'Thoughts' and 'Sir7', in private messages; since when they have both mysteriously withdrawn... Because they had criticised me for not displaying my work.

"Art is subjective" - what does that even mean? At a guess it might be that you think the value or quality of artistic works is entirely dependant on the assessment of each individual viewer. In which case my (truly brilliant) dog asserts that the label on his bone is a masterpiece. ;)

All of the artists I've worked with are aware of the separation between them as people, and their work. I can take someone saying that my work is worthless, useless, ignorant or irrelevant because of this or that characteristic; I'll listen to that with interest.

I call this work decorative fluff, it's my opinion. You call it art. and that's yours. Nothing personal.

Only just, and it's not enough. Smarta$$.

But DarnGoodPhotos has a very salient point: if you bother to comment on this thread, then you obviously care. And the fact that you commented a second time means you care even more.

The things I genuinely don't care about I don't spend any time reading, much less commenting. That's the great thing about the internet...if you don't care about an article, going somewhere else is just a click or tap away.

And here I'm commenting for a 3rd time to show that not only I care, but I CARE for a video I didn't watch. Are you serious? The above's comment is just a rant on my rant, an easy and predictable response. There are hundreds of photography channels on YT dealing with gear reviews, as it seems the world is full of experts. Others are serious and objective, others funny and enjoyable, others are plain cr@p. I just don't think we must give a monkey's on why any X "renown" or renown photographer felt the need to demonstrate how he/she found the (quite possibly sponsored) holy grail and decided to switch from X to Z, or back to X again, while at the same time another renown decided to switch from A to B, and yet another one decided to stay loyal to C. Nikon hired "renown" photographers a few months ago to do just so in the marketing campaign of the Z. Did anyone care? Everyone anticipated the objective reviews of the final products.

"an easy and predictable response."

Just like 'And we care because?'

You care so little that you've turned a sentence into a dissertation. LOL

Nah, he'd post five times about how much he doesn't care.

pmb..what is your problem? Do link your video review and your website so we can critique it. Another armchair critic and that's fine, but you are taking it to another level.

I think PostModernBloke's beef is with his switch from DSLR to mirrorless. If the video was about why he's sticking with DSLR over mirrorless he would be praising Nigel as a genius.

you don't have any action shots in your gallery, and you've obviously never used a real milc, or you wouldn't be making claims like that.

typical dslr owner.

MILC_man, you don't have any shots in your gallery at all! Zero!
But vbuhay has plenty of action shots in his gallery. There's one of a diving pelican that's outstanding. And, yes, I think it's very fair to ask if a mirrorless camera can deliver that kind of performance, if that's the kind of photography you do. Nigel, for instance, is a landscape photographer (a wonderful one), but he doesn't need fast, tracking autofocus for landscape work.

@marshallg - vbuhay is just like you; he's a dslr owner, that doesn't have any milc experience.

not sure why you guys keep posting to milc articles and milc threads...

You dslr owners have never heard of A9 otherwise wouldn't be talking this nonesense here.

Because I am interested in buying one or more if it fits my purpose....I actually had one on preorder(Z6) but had to pull back due to the "Hybrid AF" and the sensitivity range of the AF Sensor....which I am learning will not do what I want to do....I currently have 4 different bodies which as a whole will do what I want to shoot at, but I cannot carry 4 bodies and lenses when I go shooting. I was hoping I could replace my D500, D800e and D750 with the Z6, at this point It probably cannot do that....

I have tested the A9 and it does not fit what I want to use it for...I need F lens compatibility as well...

So MILC man, where are the photographs you’ve taken with your Mirrorless Camera? You are very smug and certain that you know everything about what it takes to shoot the best action shots, and the rest of us don’t know what we’re doing, so why don’t you show us what you’ve done?

My experience with both EVF and OVF for action is one is just as good as the other. The idea that EVFs don't do well with action is outdated and wrong.

Nikon can switch to any other sensor manufacture with ease as the needs arise and have done so a couple times already.

He stated the advantages for him being able to have more resolution that what his D810 offered to print large and crop. MFT would not fit his expectations.

"where have you been the last 10 years?" - The Middle East, South East Asia, Russia, California, the Philippines, etc....

Where have you been whtchocla7e? Probably Yosemite or some such....

@FujLiver:
Because aside from exceptional IQ and very high resolution, Sonys are pretty much impossible to get excited about when you're used to high-end/pro Nikon/Canon DSLRs. I have a 7RM2 and truly hate it. 3rd-gen Sonys are better, but compared to top DSLRs, Sonys are at a tremendous ergonomic disadvantage. And as Nigel mentioned, ergonomics are really what matters since at this point in time sensor performance is merely pedantic technical debate stuff. Because as a tool, you have to simply be able to use the camera, not fight with it or create workarounds. I personally don't think the Z7/Z6's ergos are that much better than Sony's, but Nikon's menus are light years ahead of Sony's. For landscape, like Nigel shoots, having a ton of properly-placed buttons and dials isn't crucial and that's probably why he's fine with his Z7. But for street photography, there is not a mirrorless out there that can hold a candle to a good DSLR...

@Sir 7 - I own the most expensive sony milc there is, and I am not the slightest bit excited about any camera body that canikon makes, because it's all primitive technology... and i'm not about to go back to holding a heavy dslr brick in my hand, because it's an ergonomic fail.

so no, your ergonomic preferences are not preferable to the dslr fine-tuning af nightmare, failed ovf performance, s-l-o-w fps rates, slow dslr lenses that can't match the 20fps performance of sony fe glass, ancient dslr lens designs that have weak p.q., zero native canikon milc lens selection, etc.

Bravo to your most expensive Sony milc
Bravo

All I hear is defending your consumer choice.

@kreislauf - I posted half a dozen very specific reasons why dslrs fail, in direct response to the Sir 7 claims about "high-end/pro Nikon/Canon DSLRs".

I even prefaced my post with "@Sir 7", so people like you wouldn't get confused.

so all I hear from you is someone who doesn't own sony, trying to tear it down.

Lol, MILCy. That's why all the sports pros have made the switch to the a9, right? For the better-designed and faster-focusing lenses, better ergonomics, and the difference between the "s-l-o-w" 12fps and 14fps of Nikon and Canon (as opposed to Sony's 20fps), right?

Oh, wait... Sports pros are still shooting Nikon and Canon, not Sony...

And for the record, when the a9 shoots uncompressed RAW its frame rate is 12fps. Excuse me, s-l-o-w 12fps. ;)

Oh yeah, MILCy, and since you're shooting the a9, you're not shooting even a "good" landscape camera. 24MP just isn't enough, and its sensor similarly to the D5's, while great at high ISO, just doesn't have the latitude of real landscape sensors like the D850's and the 7RM2's and 7RM3's at low ISO.

But you were talking mainly about ergonomics, and I'll give the a9 props for being a step in the right direction for Sony. But Sony has a lot of steps to go on that long, sorry l-o-n-g, road ahead to match Nikon/Canon ergonomics/haptics.

Lol. You think the P1000 is my only camera? I guess you missed the first photo in my gallery that I uploaded for for Stevo23 who, coincidentally-enough, accused me of not having specific gear I mentioned having. Which, of course only accounts for a fraction of my actual gear.

And I never mentioned having an a9. I said I have a 7RM2. Go take a look at my first gallery photo if you don't believe that.

Keep tellin' yourself whatever you have to to try to discredit me. But I'd rather just have discussions. I don't have time for childish name-calling or flame wars. I'm just here to talk about photography and photo gear with those who have actual experience and creditworthy opinions.

Has Nigel Danson actually made any of these statements you are quoting?

Unfortunately Nikon and Canon have had a captive market for sometime egged on by camera shop people who only recommend one or the other.
At least Nikon users can clam good sensors (Sony) and genuine thought to good handling.
Canon seems to be following its old game with mirrorless, i.e. hold back on specification and overcharge. If it ain't broke .....
Sony is so far ahead of Nikon and Canon now that they will be playing catchup for ever ... and I have no interest in going back. Even the criticism of Sony for only launching high price best in class lenses can now be side stepped by the awesome and relatively cheap Samyang AF range.

@FujiLiver
While I agree with some of your statements, I do find issue with parts of it.
Nikon uses and has used sensors from many different fab houses, and many of those fab houses are using Nikon steppers, which make those sensors...so it's not as clear cut as one might think or try to make people think.
In fact many times Nikon has gotten better results out of similar Sony sensors than even sony has. (I know the Sony guys are going to jump on this)
As far as catching up, Nikon already has the best focusing system in the D5/D500, Nikon now has the best built, best weather-sealed, best user interface, best viewfinder, and best FF video capable mirrorless, and largest own brand lens system and ecosystem that works with the Zs. Yes it's not the fastest focus in tracking, but it does everything else pretty well, so where exactly is Nikon far behind?

That was my only issue with the video. Nigel talked about the benefits of ibis and it’s use in other cameras and completely ignored Olympus. In most tests I’ve seen the Em1Mark2 is the equal in IQ of a XT2 or Xt3, but many photogs seem to ignore Olympus in favour of the x system cameras. Maybe as shooting mainly on tripods ibis is irrelevant?
And the bit about having to clean the sensor so much was hilarious, who the hell wants to do that?

I don't think it's fair to criticize Nigel for 'ignoring' Olympus. He was discussing Nikon equipment in the context of what he uses and why he likes this particular camera. Simple as that.

Not every video needs to include a detailed analysis of specific achievements by all manufacturers across the entire industry. Sometimes it's just nice to hear from a working pro who tells us what they do and don't like about a particular product.

Maybe you and the six aliases you liked your comment with ought to look up "sarcasm".

The banding issue will mostly affect people who don’t know how to expose appropriately.

Sarcasm obviously not detected by a few. Might want to make it a bit more obvious.

Love sony r1.

<< Love sony r1. >>

Aye, me too. Still have one and sometimes use it. If they brought out an updated version with 24mp, a metal body and weatherproofing, it would be the only camera many of us would ever need.

... which, come to think of it, is probably why they haven’t. ;-)

You are so right and it aint gonna happen because Sony would cannibalize its own camera and video business.

Re: "people who want a real lightweight system prefer crop cameras like the Fuji."
Or perhaps the Panasonic G series or Olympus OMD series, micro four thirds.

Some m43 cameras have pixel-shift to produce images with FF resolution and noise levels. The only caveat is that you can’t currently shoot those handheld, and scenes with more than minor movement can show artifacts. But there are many types of landscape shots that can benefit from pixel-shift mode (and you get a non-pixel-shift image of the first exposure as a backup in case you can’t tolerate the artifacts).

"Think about it twice - you can't use your AF-D lenses with the Z-Series, because they're is no internal screw-drive AF Motor inside these Bodies."

You can use them - you just won't have autofocus. In fact, this is the same limitation you'd have on the D40x, except with the Zs you'd have much better focus aids.

So you’re saying if he just said “Z7” no-one would know it was a Nikon and that would make it OK? You might want to give that a bit more thought...

What I said is that it is not normal to say 'my Nikon Z7' all of the time. It is not the way people talks. I am a Nikon fan and I intend to buy the Z6. Sorry, Nikon Z6.

We asked Nigel to make a video about his experiences of moving from a DSLR to a mirrorless camera, what he liked, what he didn't.

Everything beyond that was up to him. That's just how he chose to speak.

Thanks for the clarification. i like Nigel and I think he is very talented. Perhaps in the future he could used a more "lose" script while preparing his videos.. I don't know. It just 'sounded' like a paid review. I am obvioiusly not in his head to know what he was thinking.

Also, mind that the reviews that you guys have published on the Z series aren't the most favourable and Nigel sounded like the camera is the best in class. Of course, as I am also a Landscape photographer, I don't care as much about the AF issues the same as Nigel.

Closing, I wish you and all the DPreview team a wonderful Christmas holidays and a Happy New Year :)

Take it to the nearest Nikon repair shop, same as he’d do with a DSLR. The days when the local blacksmith or watchmaker could fix a camera are long gone. And the Nikon agent would have the training and spares for the Z 7.

@Suave: he already said that: he often carries multiple bodies and is probably getting a Z6 as well as his Fuji.

Lol, I'm SSSOOOOOO not buying a Z7, or ANY camera for that matter, after watching how it's used for landscape photography! Landscape is the least-demanding genre for bodies, provided resolution and sensor performance are up to the task. Landscape is so undemanding that you can even use Leica bodies to shoot landscape...

The Sony A7III EVF was pretty poor doing pans. Felt like the matrix world was buffering.

The A9 & 7rIII share the same EVF with the Z6&7

Except that Nikon has added quite a bit of optics in front of the EVF, to help correct the image and give you a much more pleasant viewing experience.
The Nikon viewfinder actually has aspheric lens elements.
It is the best viewfinder I have looked through!!!

The Nikon also seems to use a higher resolution feed than competitors with the same panel, FWIW.

Thanks for the replies. I'm just somebody that gets seasick with the delay in what i see corresponding to the movement of the camera.

The shorter the delay the more pleasant the experience and time to save to get one. Just not sure if this is the one.

Yes, the Nikon implementation of the Sony panel is totally different (and better) than the Sony implementation. This is one example of where just reading specs won't tell the whole story.

From an extensive side by side among the GH5, Z7 and EOS R:

1- The Z7 is the largest, though not by much (and I even prefer the touch smaller R & GH5. Easier to see edges)

2- The EOS R is the smallest lag when panning and refreshing, followed by the GH5 then Z7 (Strange but perceptibly true).

3- Z7 is the most "natural" looking view, with the least perception of digital edge enhancement and brightness.

4- The Z7 & EOS R never drop resolution, not in playback, not in video, not in Continuous mode, while the A7RIII & GH5 do, especially the Sony.

5- The optical arrangement/block is the most sophisticated on the Nikon with an actual ashpherical element and many groups, very flat and sharp image.

The best "overall" EVF to use in real-life is the EOS R, followed closely by the Z7, then the A7R + GH5.

Specs would lead you to believe they're four Sony EVFs, and they are, but just different in more than one way.

Canon & Nikon hit the mark with the implementation.

once again we see misinformation about sony, in dpr article comments... no, Ebrahim, the a7riii evf does not "drop resolution", that is nonsense... the sony a9 has the best evf, because the video feed is powered by the extremely fast readout speed of the stacked sensor, which canikon does not have in any camera.

@NexLupus - "Except that Nikon has added quite a bit of optics in front of the EVF... The Nikon viewfinder actually has aspheric lens elements."

except not, because sony does that also, it's hardly a revelation:

"the retractable XGA OLED Tru-Finder sports a 4-element optical system with two molded glass aspherical elements and a Zeiss T* coating"
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/explora/photography/news/sony-packs-evf-and-42mp-full-frame-sensor-compact-rx1r-ii

No offense, but landscape-only photography isn't really "real world". Landscape is an isolated genre that also happens to be the least-demanding on body performance.

It's actually the highest demanding on very key elements: 1- Resolution 2- Dynamic Range 3- Colour rendition 4- Noise performance 5- Autofocus (S-AF) 6- Weather Sealing 7- Battery life 8- EVF

But yes it's not really any stress on the burst shooting performance. I use my Nikon D3400 for Landscapes & Nightscapes instead of my EOS R, just because I like the contrast range better and don't need the greatest skin colours or ergonomics or C-AF.

Not that Nigel is the authority or anything, but like he said, all modern sensors are plenty good enough in all metrics and therefore among the big brands sensor performance is merely academic. Even Canon, who lagged for many years in sensor tech, makes good sensors now. Any high- res sensor is good enough.

AF doesn't matter because in landscape you've got plenty of time to focus; even manually.

I don't shoot video so i don't care about video performance, but Nigel does. And contrary to what you just said about AF-C not mattering, Nigel considers good AF-C really important for video. But that's probably only because he films himself walking around the frame. Continued...

Many place importance on weather sealing, but i don't. I don't expose my naked gear to rain. I either put a plastic bag over the rig or use a housing. Nobody should get in the habit of shooting in the rain with ANY gear or they will eventually regret it. Pretty much any camera can handle a brief sprinkle but you shouldn't expose any gear to much more than that for any period of time. Sure, we've all heard stories on DPR about some camera handling a heavy downpour. Lol, yeah keep shooting like that and we'll be hearing quite a different story about rain performance... :D Done...