DPReview TV: Panasonic S1R vs. Nikon Z7 vs. Sony a7R III

The bottom line is that there are many tools on the market depending on what your preferences and needs are. There is no one magical solution.

That is one problem with rankings; even though the authors caution against using them too much, most people do. They create the impression that there might just be that one camera to rule them all. In reality it's a very fragmented market, these are complex devices with individual strengths and weaknesses, and ultimately one has to decide what matters most.

It will be clearer which brand has a brighter future, when these cameras arrive, A7R IV A7S III, A9 II or maybe A9R II?

@Thoughts R Us,
Sorry, but they are NOT all equal. There are differences in IQ, AF, etc. When one spends $thousands on a new system (going to a new mount), it is important to look at the product differences and how they suit one's needs, as well as the future of the brand. The A7R III is clearly superior, e.g. for weddings (lowlight, AF, long battery life). The cameras are also not equal, when you consider other than the current products. In terms of upgradability and ability to satisfy future requirements, Sony should offer a clear path forword, given its sensor making advantage, advanced AF, its corporate resources, technical expertise, as well as the determination in advancing its camera business. I look forward to a new leader to break the duopoly that lasted way too long and their practice of slow, controlled implementation of technology that is available and product dumbing down, a practise that must have also contributed to the current sad state, besides the smartphone.

That Panasonic multishot high res mode is earning great reviews. It seems to be the way to do it right.

The body is made from Vibranium.

The Panasonic S1 and S1R, despite costing more than their Sony counterparts, still use contrast-detect auto-focus.

Sony is still superior in the auto-focus game, especially in C-AF.

Sony is also superior in the banding department, having laid strips of PDAF detectors in front of it's imaging sensor.

@closephoto. I have both the A7iii and A6000 which both are apparently susceptible to the PDAF striping. I can honestly say I have never experienced it on either with thousands and thousands of shots. I'm not saying it isn't a real issue just that it's pretty rare. Also there is an excellent fix in Rawtherapee that I tried on DPR's sample A7iii images. I haven't seen a fix yet for missed focus

I had my chance at a A7RIII but having had a A7RII prior I simply found the S1 a superior product in a number of ways. Many love to knock the DFD but it's lightning quick and accurate for single focus, which happens to be what I shoot 95% of the time. Everyone is different indeed. I personally felt the Sony was a tad noisy above ISO1600 so I have no idea how it got the crown for low noise. Spend a day with a S1 and you'll be in love is all I can say.

@fjbyrne If your use case is low light photography, high contrast subjects, or involve many shadow areas that require recovery, banding is a huge, image destroying problem. If you are shooting primarily well lit subjects, and never need to resort to pushing, it may never be noticed. Perhaps they should have just lined the entire sensor PDAF sensors rather than strips, even if not used, so that exposure would be even across the sensor.

The S1R avoids the problem, but AF suffers somewhat as a result.

@ProDude

Most recent (less than 3 years old) cameras can manage Single AF without a problem. It is Continuous AF that trips up lots of cameras. Contrast-detect alone is simply not good enough.

Sony's combo phase-detect and contrast-detect auto-focus implementation has proven to be the most accurate and reliable.

@closephoto I believe banding and PDAF striping are 2 different things. Nikon apparently has issues with banding and Sony with striping. I've never seen either on my A7iii or A6000. I bought the A7iii to photograph my granddaughter and specifically for eye-AF in AF-C. She's now 14 months and I can tell you it's a godsend when shooting a moving portrait (even moreso with the new firmware).

I haven't shot the S1 and cannot comment on its performance although it looks like a great camera. For me I wouldn't buy a camera without eye-AF that works effectively with moving subjects. Obviously others may have different needs.

@Closephoto
You are confusing things, Nikon has banding not the Sony.
A7RIII doesn't have banding

Very true. I wouldn't currently buy another Canon camera until they get their act together. That said, I remember the glory days of Canon (550D, 5D2) and would really like to see them compete again.

Canon still makes good cameras, they just don't make competitive cameras anymore. The EOS R isn't bad but it certainly isn't as well spec'd as some £1700 equivalents. That's what makes Canon a hard system to recommend and the value for money isn't there. That said, any camera released in the last 20 years will produce great results in the right hands.

Very interested in Nikons soon to arrive AF firmware update. So far from what I have seen online it looks very good.

Yeah it surprised me big time how fast focus the S1 was and now that I've actually read up on the settings for it (which are utterly ignored by every reviewer ironically) it can be highly competent even with moving subjects. As time goes on I hope this is exposed as it's not a " no need to touch anything" kind of camera as the Sony tends to be.

Panasonic is new to FF but the progenitor of mirrorless as we know it today, and it shows in the S1. I’m pleased to see how strong the IBIS is on my S1 compared to even my G9.

Yeah the IBIS sure has won me over on the S1. I've owned Fuji's and frankly they are near toys by comparison to an S1

Yeah, the original K-1. The others don't have pixel-shift, astro-tracer, GPS, etc etc. Lenses are usually cheaper for Pentax too, it's the ultimate budget option as far as I see.

Of course the others might be preferable for some reason, all I'm saying is the K-1 is a super serious contender for this purpose.

Oh yes the K1 is great.

But especially for landscapes lens selection is much bigger in Nikon F and Canon EF mount. Since Tamron and Sigma don't support K-mount anymore.

Mirrorless has the ultimate selection in that regard anyway since you can adapt everything if you don't need fast AF

True. The good news is as mirrorless becomes more popular the older bodies are getting cheap, and DSLRs even cheaper. So for those with lesser AF and video requirements there are so many bargains out there.

Nikon should really add pixel-shift to the Z 9 or whatever though, maybe it's possible via a firmware update for the Z 7 and Z 6 who knows.

What are you talking about? Tarantino doesn't film in digital and Hateful 8 was filmed on Ultra Panavision.

Pumrel, I think you are commenting in the wrong thread ... or wrong article ... or the wrong web site.

LOOOL!!

Let's tell Tarantino that he did Hateful 8 all wrong.

Completely useless right... I mean I don't even know how people made videos before ProResRAW. I am pretty sure you didn't since ProResRAW is quite new in this line of cams.

@panther. Are you saying Portable Monitor/Recorders are useless in almost every way? Are you saying to use a portable monitor/recorder you need to buy an external cage, and other gear such that you are basically buying a shoulder rig? Am I reading you right?

What are you talking about? Tarantino doesn't film in digital and Hateful 8 was filmed on Ultra Panavision.

pumrel tis but a joke.

a bad one.

like the ones Tarantino does

Ojos Azules, no it isn't. Here is one example:
https://photographylife.com/the-reality-behind-nikon-z-banding-issues

PDAF striping ("banding") summary:

-The Sony bakes some banding correction into the raw files
-The Nikon does not bake banding correction into the raw files
-The Panasonic does not have PDAF striping

In all of the above cases, pushing shadows many stops is not ideal anyway. Shoot properly, and this is a non-issue.

@matthew saville:
Then bracket. You are using at least 5EV too dark for shadows if you're pushing shadows by 5 stops. I've done a lot of shots with very high contrast in the same scene. Even then, I don't push by 5 stops.

See here for some examples:
https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/62124401

That's the sun & dark, shaded trees in the same shot. I would not need to push by 5EV because I exposed properly. (The trees are at roughly 2 stops push there). There are other examples in the links there too. In the rare occasion that I would want to push that hard, the solution is simple: exposure bracketing. Because if banding isn't an issue, shot noise will be in any case.

@Rainersen, I think you're assuming that the number of people who are getting into this type of photography is still near-zero. If it weren't such a big deal, then it would have been swept under the rug long ago. Instead, literally every Canon-shooting landscape photographer I personally know has either already switched to Sony/Nikon, or is seriously considering it. Whether or not they shoot timelapse. In fact, even the photographers I know who bracket everything have also switched to Sony. They still bracket, but now they only have to use those bracketed exposures 1/10 as often as before.

@beatboxa,
Again, see my reply above. Have you ever tried to HDR bracket a TIMELAPSE? It's absolutely horrible.

I'm doing this type of work every week, and I'm comparing all of the latest Sony, Canon, and Nikon sensors every month. The Sony sensors offer a crucial difference that, in many scenes, I simply can't work without.

Yes, I have. It's not horrible, it works just fine.
https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/59249351

Can you post some of your comparisons?

Some people are interested to know the differences between the 3 systems instead of just "take the one that feels the most comfortable in your hands". We're not talking about shoes (or rather gloves) here, there are other important aspects to consider, and depending on the user needs, could be more important than the handling itself.
What if someone takes studio photos or landscape photos, all on a tripod. Why should this person choose a camera only because of the form factor?

I also used the 3 same bodies (a7iii, s1, z6) and I disagree that only one body feels good in a set hands, actually I could handle all 3 just fine.

@fpessolano
Yes and No.

Let's say you like the Panasonic S1R most and buy it. But you need other lenses than the three Panasonic or five prohibitively expensive Leica lenses available.
What are you going to do next? Just simply live without lenses? Adapt Canon lenses that won't work with DFD and don't work in AF-C at all?

lenses are always a huge deciding factor if you are buying a new camera system. You need an ultra wide lenses -> The S1R simply doesn't have one
etc etc

Sometimes the body you like most isn't the best buying decision.

It's just like life. The body you like is the body you get. If you're lucky.

I think it's gonna be very very interesting to see how the lens roadmap for Panasonic develops, sure Sigma is jumping in soon but it also seemed like they weren't gonna chase DFD or were unsure of it (based on one random interview mind you)... It would suck if some of the system's best lenses end up sucking at C-AF.

Panasonic was always kinda haphazard towards growing their lens lineup with M4/3 (their vision got more cohesive in latter years with less scattershot releases), will be interesting to see how fast they move on their FF stuff. Lenses are huge for me, I dunno that I'd be confident jumping into any of the new FF systems without seeing how that pans out, not I'm looking to go FF.

Honestly, for a person with the budget to switch or with no lens legacy, either he/she has a specific need for a lens, or he/she picks the body he/she likes.
And today, except when a specific lens or spec is needed, none of these three (and not only) bodies would be either a worse nor a better choice. They are much more the same videos like this and fans try to make them.

I do and I also shoot mFT.

Don't let this fool you that I do not crap on Sony when there is an issue such as the lack of intervalometer on the newer cameras.

My main point is: a usability issue might be the weight of a camera. I also shoot the GH5 and to my partner it is a heavy camera and the A7r is chosen. I have no problem in carrying the GH5. You see my point here?

Usability, menus, grips are highly subjective and contentious topics. I can't recall a camera I had that I would think it is unusable due to how they handle.

Phones are a different matter and should burn in hell. LOL!

These reviews are just for nice Saturday morning entertainment.

In the next entry level camera video comparison...

10 bit video, higher video information, Prores RAW. Great autofocus. No overheating. I guess you don't know much about video. Poor you.

For -real- broadcast video productions I use Arri Alexa. Stills, Sony is king, end of story. I bet the Sony A7riv will leave Sony and Nikon like 5 years behind again.

In all fairness, if you buy the Z 7 your main focus shouldn’t be video, and high IQ should be you’re main priority. Making the Sony the best camera if you’re not brand loyal. Btw, if you want to record prores raw you can do that on the Riii, it a feature atomos adds, not the camera, those only give the feed from the sensor. And Yes, the 12bit Will be awsom hands down.*

So Nikon is better in video for full frame mirrorless from the first attempt. Better in output, better in 10 bit color, better in RAW. Took them only on generation to leapfrog Sony.

@StoneJack

Simply because Nikon doesn't have to protect its camcorder department (Nikon doesn't make camcorders, Sony - does). Also, an update is on its way (somewhere in May) and Z6/Z7 will be able to record RAW video - it will totally destroy Sony in video.

As you said, in photography, Nikon WAS always better. Things have changed and they're now behind, but yes, in front on the video features because of raw recording etc, but something tells me it's not going to last very long ...

Leapfrog a much older camera? I wonder how is that possible?

Notice that the video was made with a GH5?

leapfrog a camera from which it borrows the sensor tech?

How good is Z's IQ in the areas with banding?

@Zerixos,
It's the other way around. Sony sells their sensors to everyone except Canon.

Adapters are not always a terrible solution. I use EF lenses on my Sony and they work perfectly. Some are MF - the 17, 24 and 45 TSE lenses, as is my Nikkor 35mm 2.8 PC lens. Sony does not make lenses like these.

I also use AF lenses on the Sony ... often in MF mode because I am shooting architecture with them. But AF works OK for most of my needs with it, if not as well as with Sony E mount lenses.

One adapter uses up the space that would otherwise require a longer lens barrel on every lens. (For a given lens design.) Plus I can use the same lenses on Sony and Canon bodies. So I'm more inclined to use the Canon lenses via adapters than buy more Sony lenses.

When I need faster AF, I use the Canon with the AF EF lenses, or my Sony lenses (I only have a few) on the Sony. But much of my work is done with manual focusing.

Nikon: few native lenses + access to F mount lenses with the FTZ adapter.
Sony: many native lenses + access to EF mount lenses.

(Also, adapted lenses don't perform as well as native lenses, and older lenses are just worse in general because they were designed for worse cameras and also because technology has gotten better)

Not sure how you can disagree that Sony wins that round?

@panther fan… The FTZ adapter adapts Nikon to Nikon, there is no protocol translation, the camera directly controls the lens... The Nikon F lenses can be considered native, except for the physical aspect...
I had a Nikon F to Sony E adapter, didn't work really well...

I recently noticed that there seems to be little to no stock of the a7RIII in Germany anymore. Very few shops offer it. But plenty offer the A7RII. Anyone with an idea why?

@ozturert

Totally agree, Sony ML cameras are lacking in the ergonomics, menus, LCD and EVF fronts, but the rest of the completion ML cameras are lacking in all other aspects: image quality, video features/quality, AF, battery life, lens selection and price. :)

Eno2, I don't see Nikon cameras have about the same IQ as Sony cameras and Canon isn't way behind. If you cannot take good photos with Canikon, then sensor isn't the culprit.
Sony is ahead in AF-C but AF-S is perfect in all brands. In fact Canon can AF in -6EV and I think A7III can AF in -3EV.
I don't see lens prices are very different. Canon 35mm f1.8 Macro IS is almost perfect and it is very reasonably priced. 24-105 prices are about the same.
Lack of lenses is correct if you don't use adapter (which has disadvantages but still..). Canikon is catching up fast though.

@ozturert
Nikon Z cameras have banding in the shadows, thus IQ is lower compared to Sont's. Canon cameras are even worst both at DR and low light. If you want the best image/video quality, the best AF, best battery live, best native lens selection, dual SD card slots and best prices, Sony ML cameras currently offer all of those.
I can take great photos even with my smartphone but that's beside the point.

Eno2, that banding occurs in very limited conditions. You will not see that problem under normal conditions.
And you will see backlight stripping on A7III images? How about that then?
Both these problems appear under very limited and isolated conditions.

@ozturert

I've tried to replicate the banding with back lightning on the A7III but I was unsuccessful (maybe Sony addressed the issue with the last firmware update). In contrast, on both the Z7 and Z6 I clearly saw banding in most of images after some shadow recovery in harsh daylight situations or slight underexposure and recovery. Some people may not be disturbed about it but I am.

Eno2, I use A7III for 7 months and I had it only twice.
Similar to Z6/Z7. You will not see banding everyday.

@eno2 little ozy is very consistent in failing miserably in his permanent attempts to troll Sony... he is in pain, for real. LOL

@ozturert

The banding on the Z's is a random thing generated by the in camera masking algorithm. Unfortunately it's like lottery, when you want to have it for demonstrative purposes it doesn't show up, but when you really want high DR, it's there, ruining your shots. :(

Eno2, what you are saying is talk and talk. Here are real tests that actually represent real world conditions:

https://blog.kasson.com/nikon-z6-7/nikon-z7-banding/
https://blog.kasson.com/nikon-z6-7/nikon-z7-banding-revisited/
https://blog.kasson.com/nikon-z6-7/nikon-z7-pdaf-banding-faqs/
https://photographylife.com/the-reality-behind-nikon-z-banding-issues
https://photokaz.com/blog/2018/10/03/nikon-z7-banding-test/

As I said, Z6/7 banding problem is very very rare and difficult to replicate in real world. It may happen but isn't easy.

Again, this is anti-Nikon propaganda by people like ZeBebito.

I can create special conditions that will show PDAF blooming on A7III, that doesn't mean anything in real world. Same with Z6/7.

ozturert is a fascinating character.

He thinks the entire internet is in favour of Sony. Must have just got his dial up modem and never read DPReview before the A7rII.

Then he thinks that everyone is a chill for Sony, even tho many people complain thoughtfully about the camera.

But it is really easy to check this: anyone thinking that there is a huge chill fan base just check the history of those involved.

By checking his history it is easy to see that he does nothing, NOTHING but complain about Sony. In the most hilarious and desperate ways.

"GUYS! COME ON!! Hate Sony please... They so stupid right? High five. Up top. Gimme some..... pleasesomeoneagreewithme"

@DtBB agree... The whole internet is conspiring to promote Sony... little Ozy now claims I am making "anti-Nikon propaganda" lol.

From my limited experience with the Z7 and Z6, banding is apparently mainly in post when you push things too far (like more than 2-3 stops over/under, and if you max out the shadows). But if you can keep your exposure contained, then it shouldn't be as big of an issue as people are saying. I will do more testing in the weeks to come, but I Don't think this issue as bad as people make it seem. Plus, I imagine that this will be partially address in the May 16th firmware update (hopefully).

@ozturert

Dpreview documented very well the Z7&Z7 banding issues:
https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/nikon-z7/7

So has PhotographyLife:
https://photographylife.com/the-reality-behind-nikon-z-banding-issues

(among many others). My experience is close to what's shown in PL's article. I also generally won't process an image that needs to be taken to the extremes in terms of exposure. Shadows perhaps if I need to for creative effect, but if a phone needs more than 3 stops of exposure adjustment up or down, I generally don't bother unless it's the only image i Have or I have to get it to someone no matter what. But the problem is there, just not quite as bad as everyone makes it sound. It's not a minor issue, but it's also not a major issue for many.

@ozturert

I've tested both the Z7 and Z6 cameras myself and I did encountered the banding issue, in multiple scenarios. The current Z cameras are not for me, they don't offer dual card slot (a very important feature for pro work), only have a very, very expensive XQD card slot (which I strongly dislike because it's enormous prices), the AF is lacking, the grip material is wearing of really fast, it only has a very few and expensive native lenses so far (I'm only interested in native lenses and no adapted ones) and there is no vertical grip option (very important with bigger lenses for my needs) etc.

I think making video cost more.

Agree. I like to read in my own pace too

Just skip to last few minutes, just like I skip to the conclusions page of the written reviews.

Its a different experience
Its very good
I am glad they do it

I'm not against video. What I'm against is that they push to see the video alone

Agree with the OP. Where's DPRTV's written version? Before I get all the "It's called 'TV' for a reason, moron" hate, I'll just remind everyone of this: when news stations post video on their websites, they usually print the entire transcript of the segment. And that is what I'd like to see here.

Dear Sir, we might or not agree on the kind of content that we would like to see, but at the end of the day -as I said before- this is a freebie site, so they can do whatever they please with their content's format.

@teddoman
Get over it already.

I don't think there is even worldwide consensus on how to pronounce Nikon!

Ny-con in pretentious areas, Nik-on elsewhere ;-)

(Pretty sure they don't care as long as people buy the kit, which has been a problem the last couple of years, of course...)

I remember hearing “zee” in the announce videos, and that Nikon wanted that to be used.

Only one nation pronounces it that way.

What difference does it make? In any country it will be pronounced as it pronounced and everyone in that country will understand it.

Zed is the way that English speaking countries other than the USA pronounce the letter 'Z'.

The pronunciation of Nikon is debatable. The Japanese use Nick-on, but they derive it from Ikon (Nippon Ikon) which they mispronounce as Ick-on.

Maybe we should begin telling the Japanese how to pronounce some things in their language?

Of course the pronunciation is Zed. All English speaking nations pronounce it like that, the correct way.

Quite frankly, I don't care if it's "Zee" or "Zed", Ny-Kon or "Nic-Kon"..... I'm going to go out and do some shooting instead....

Hey, I only found out recently that Maryland should be pronounced Marilyn... North Americans seem to have a problem with leicestershire (pronounced Lestersheer)... Then we have the anomaly that is aluminium...

Bob Janes - via Mark and Simon, perchance?

Nikon originally said that it should be known as 'zee' in all territories but that (and the inexplicable space that's supposed to exist between the 'Z' and the model number) got ignored by everyone outside the US.

Nikon softened its position almost immediately.

@teddoman,
Yes, "Zed-mount" sounds normal to a Canadian.

I'm sure nobody would mind if people from the USA mispronounce it as Zee. They do it with most other words anyway! ;-)

Richard Butler - Hello the Jason Isaacs...

The Panasonic sensors aren't BSI, which has led some people to believe that they are not made by Sony, but perhaps by TowerJazz. Also, the sensors they use don't have partially masked PDAF pixels, so it's not just a question of "activating" it.

Nikon is 2 generations behind? I think Nikon is behind only in terms of AF-C and maybe fps. Nothing else in Sony is better than Nikon. Z7 has way better LCD quality and proper touchscreen, way better EVF, way better ergonomy, better button layout and menus, better weather sealong and has ISO50 option (real base ISO). So whereis your 2 generations?
If you don't need AF-C, then Z7 seems to be the better option actually. As soon as Nikon fixes the AF-C, then two cameras will be identical (except from ergonomy where Sony really must do something).

You can look at the numbers, the IQ is basically the same for all these cameras, regardless of who makes the sensor. The DR and noise comments were a little exaggerated in my opinion, but realistically like they said, all give excellent image quality.

The Nikon is only 2 generations behind in AF in my opinion, and they made some dumb decisions for the battery and card slot.

@ozturert
Exactly.
Sony fanb0ys are just spreading FUD. I have no idea why they keep doing that if they’re happy with their choice!!

I am super happy with my Z7 camera. Just got my 14-30mm in addition to 24-70mm f4 and 35mm f1.8. Can’t wait for my Z 70-200mm f4 lens. Next year. Great system.

Fly18, Sony f.nboys think they are the smartest and others are just brainless zombies. Worse, sites like DPReview pumps this with their headings/titles.

I'd say Nikon is maybe "1 gen" behind the Sony. But that's the problem when you're the innovator and everyone follows you. They learn some stuff from you and their development cycle is a bit ahead of where you started out (From square one). I to would like to see the Gen 4 Sonys vs. Gen 2 Nikons when they come out.

Sensor tech has not advanced much in the last few years.

Except on autofocus
Which is now sensor tech

Because A7Riii has the lowest pixel count of the three.

@ZeBebito

That doesn't make sense. We know that the firmware is coming as it's officially announced by Nikon.

Is the A7Riv officially announced by Sony? And no, SAR doesn't count.

Nothing is good for some fanboys as long as it isn't called Sony

Wait 4 years and Pentax K5 will be the new king, or the new Zenits or maybe whatever...

Guess what! Even G9 or S1 have that too!

I will go out on a limb and say that what they mean is that it works better than the implementations in other brand(s).

@ChristianC1975, I don't believe they meant it works better than other brands because without the Real Time Tracking feature the A7r III can't do what Chris specifically described.