It's all well and good to imagine what Nikon's trio of 1"-type sensor compacts might be like based on spec, but there's nothing like getting them in your hands. See what the buzz is all about – straight from the show floor of CP+ in Yokohama, Japan.
I really wish to see Nikon DL24 or DL35 with f/1.8 lens and EVF some time soon... I think it's time for Nikon to address Fuji X100 with their own, hopefully smaller, product.
I would just like to see a non-extending lens, super fast to power on. I guess that would be possible with fixed focal lenght... @Borami -- yes, f/1.4 would be a killer.
And are more expensive and have small batteries to keep the body size down...
Historically most compact camera buyers, faced with a model with a viewfinder or a cheaper version of the same model with the viewfinder missed out, bought the cheaper one. That said, these cameras are aimed at a different group of potential buyers who might appreciate a viewfinder more. I guess they'll find out, based on how many people buy the optional viewfinder.
If I had to choose between the Nikon 24-85, the Canon G7x and the Sony RX100 I would choose the Nikon : from the few samples I have seen IQ quality is fine, and the cam is well designed . I don't really like Sony jpegs and the Canon lens seems a bit weak or so it seems from the reviews . It would go on my belt in a small hard case , this is what pocketable means to me, I don't even put my tiny Canon S110 in a pocket God forbid . These 1" cameras are really interesting , the other one the 18-50 lets you shoot at a 9mm f2.5 4/3 equiv, I find that pretty cool, and there is a perspective correction in cam, plus ND filter . Had I the money I would get both . Ah and I forgot to mention the focal length clicking positions on the lens wheel, like on the Canon S series , that's an awesome feature .
Why are you comparing the DL 24-85 to RX100 version I, its priced $398, even version II is way cheaper at $498. The DL24-85 is midway between the RX100 II and III ($798).
I like the DL 18-50. Good option for taking good photos when backpacking. I'm hoping Sony comes out with the same wide angle lens, because I do like having an EVF and built in flash in certain situations.
sigh. So tired of the electronic zooms on these 1" bridge cameras. I'm waiting for someone to release one with a manual zoom somewhere in the realm of 30-400mm.
Waiting for DPR to confirm this, but from Nikons literature: The DL18-50 f/1.8-2.8's GUI and menus are very similar to Nikon DSLRs, as are the command dial with PSAM control, rotary multi-selector, power switch, customizable Fn (function) button and RAW (NEF) capabilities. Focal length can be set in steps or adjusted fluidly across the zoom range with the lens' precision zoom ring, while the control ring allows precise adjustments of aperture, shutter speed, manual focus or even white balance.
The Fuji XS-1 isn't an 1" sensor. It is the same sensor as in the Fuji X-10 of that period, using a 2/3" (8.8 x 6.6 mm) sensor. But it was actually an underrated camera. It gave some decent results!
I agree the manual zoom on the SX-1 was a pleasure to use!
Nikon 1 lens reliability seems to be much lower than their DSLR lenses. both my 10-30mm zooms have had repair under a service advisory, my 10-100 PD zoom has failed with only light use, and with a $495 repair estimate,
At least I can change to another lens if I have a failure, these fixed lens versions will be a highly expensive to repair if Nikon 1 lens mechanical design is not improved. I have many dx and full frame Nikon lenses with few problens so I have nothing against standard Nikon lenses
Can't say I agree with the lens reliability thing. Those two lenses are problematic ones. 10-30zoom has a known design defect and Nikon has been repairing free of charge. I don't know what the problem is with the 10-100PD zoom but it's not very common lens. The rest of the lenses in the lineup are largely free of problem AFAIK. I don't have those two lenses and I have never had lens problem with 5 N1 lenses in years of use. So, it's not a fair generalization but more of a misrepresentation.
I have a full Nikon 1 outfit with flash, 3 lenses, etc. and not one single failure - I've had it all since the V1. It's been as reliable as it gets for me.
The good news is that, at these prices, you would have paid more for JUST THE LENS if Nikon had even manufactured an f/1.8-2.8 or f2.8-5.6 version of these zoom ranges as interchangeable lenses on the 1 system. And, if you're really concerned, there's always SquareTrade.
Thanks for the link. The image quality looks excellent. I would be very interested to see how it compares with the Sony RX10 II, as it may be a viable alternative if a person wanted a B-cam for the Panasonic GH4.
Well, the Nikon is only f/5.6 at the long end, whereas the FZ1000 is f/4 at (nearly) the same spot. I'm kind of disappointed Nikon didn't suck it up and go 2.8-4.0, but perhaps it was to challenging to get good sharpness at 4.0 on those optics.
Skip to 2:39 - that's all I needed to know about its 4K quality. I am mighty tempted now. I sold the RX10 II due to range. This is in direct competition with the FZ now.
N1 was overpriced from the beggining and the kit lens with all v cams should have been an f/1.8-2.8 zoom. If they would have delivered that package at $650 launch price for the V - the 1 system would be the star mirrorless system right now. Instead, trying to protect DSLR sales, they launched them massively overpriced with no fast zooms. It is like they wanted the system to fail.
What I really don't like is that they announce it now and only deliver in over 4 months. That reminds me of Nokia in their last 2-3 years. You create a lot of excitement but that fades over 3 months. Shock and awe would be better ;-)
@RidgeRunner22 - my reply was to photo perzon, who seems to think that comparing the DL series to the Panasonic GM5 is in any way valid.
He's saying, 'the GM5 has a bigger sensor and an EVF and is smaller' but totally misses the part about m43 not having any lenses equivalent to the DL series.
You might as well bring up that a full frame Canon has a bigger sensor, and that a MF body has an even bigger sensor. It's an example of a nonsensical comparison.
@Richard: yep, give me a 2.5-3.8 / 9-25 pancake zoom, or even non pancake. The available 9-18 / 4-5.6 certainly is not bad, but I really would appreciate an ultra-wide to normal fastish zoom for mirror less (sadly Samsung will never produce this for my NX300).
For me the bigger issue is that for the DL24-85 an underwater housing will be much cheaper than let's say an E-M5II and the 12-40. And if you have water ingress you loose much less money. Autofocus is probably better with the DL, and you get a macro setting for free (which I need quite often).
@Richard Butler. When did f/2.5-f/3.8 start to have equivalent capabilities as f/1.8-f/2.8?? Personally I would prefer f/1.8 in low light to keep the ISO down ☺
Archiver I believe you missed what photo perzon hinted at. He was referring to the GM5 which is smaller than these Nikons. Sure we could list many cameras with larger sensors but those cameras are larger. I took perzon's point to be that there are smaller cameras that offer more than the new DL line (including EVF and a larger sensor). Valid points. I think this point was certainly not lost on brownie314 above me.
AKH - it always has (because it's how light behaves).
The key word to note is equivalent, not equal.
I'm not saying an F2.5-3.8 is as good as an F1.8-2.8 would be, on the same format (of course it wouldn't). I'm saying an F2.5-3.8 on a Four Thirds sensor will be very similar to an F1.8-2.8 on a 1"-type sensor.
In theory (and usually in practice), a Four Thirds sensor at F2.5 and ISO 200 will give a very similar amount of noise to an F1.8 lens of the same field of view if you'd kept the ISO down to 100 on a 1"-type sensor.
For more information (and photographic examples) you can read this.
I'm not suggesting they are the same in exposure terms, just saying they give comparable results. Rather than just saying big sensors are less noisy, it relates everything back to why: because they get more total light for the same shutter speed and F-number.
Richard Butler - that depends very much on the 4/3 sensor you are comparing. If you take the EP-1 and EP-2, they are more or less on par in high ISO performance with the Nikon J5, so here the J5 would have around a 1-stop advantage when using an f/1.8 lens compared to the older 4/3 using a f/2.5 lens.
The newer versions of Oly 4/3 have around 1-stop high ISO advantage over the J5, so in that case you are right.
I'm not sure why you mix field of view into the equation. The only relevant parameters are widest aperture (or f-stop) and high ISO performance.
The GM5 might be smaller than the first two DL cameras, and it does have a larger sensor and EVF, but exactly where is the 18-50mm f1.8-2.8 lens for m43? Where is the 24-85mm f1.8-2.8 for m43?
I have a E-M5, GH3, GH4 and GM1, and all the major zooms and primes with the exception of the Nocticron, so I know a bit about m43 capability. The DL 18-50 does things that nothing in the m43 lineup can do. This is why photo perzon's comment only makes sense when considering body size, but completely loses traction when you add lenses to the equation.
To me, it would seem remiss of us not to cover, in detail, a major camera manufacturer's release of a completely new line of cameras that will go up against established competition in a crowded and popular market segment.
As for the volume of posts, well, some people like to read, and some people like to watch videos. When it's possible, we try to offer both for our readers / viewers.
And on a more personal note, as someone who likes to have a small and capable camera on my person all the time, these seem pretty neat.
@Retzuis - it was an announcement article (which we do for pretty much every camera) plus a more in-depth look at three cameras aimed squarely at our core readers.
It just so happens that some of our team were on their way to Japan to a trade show that gave them a chance to get their hands on working samples, which is what the other article and video are about.
We've done something pretty similar about Sigma's announcement, it's just that there's been an unusually short gap between the product's announcement and the first time we can show proper hands-on coverage.
And while small sensor compacts are dying a death, good quality compacts are selling pretty well (which is presumably why Nikon has just developed three of them).
"To me, it would seem remiss of us not to cover, in detail, a major camera manufacturer's release of a completely new line of cameras that will go up against established competition in a crowded and popular market segment."
Certainly not intended that way, so my apologies for that. It's a bit of a cop-out answer, but I'm afraid the EOS-M cameras predated my time at DPR, so I can't really weigh in beyond that.
Any update on the D810 review? Before Christmas, Rishi mentioned it was next in line and it would be up soon, and other cameras have been fully released and reviewed in between...Just curious, thanks.
They're redefining what a pocket camera is, as in not being able to actually fit into your pocket :) They look even bigger than the dimensions would indicate, esp the protruding lens stub on the 18-50mm.
Looked around after our discussion yesterday, and your right, these Nikon's are not pocket cameras unless your a masochist.
Probably still won't deter my picking up a couple of them, I wouldn't carry the Sony in a pocket either due to a comfort factor, but yes, it will affect some decisions.
I wear regular-fitting pants, usually on the loose side. I've got my keys and wallet in one front pocket and my phone in the other, no room for a camera. Not even close. Wallet or keys in a back pocket would be painful to sit on. Camera or phone in a back pocket would be fine if I wanted to destroy them.
So all these people who claim to carry cameras in their jeans, where are they putting them? Are they still wearing their Z Cavariccis from 1988? I seem to be missing something here.
Packet camera = cargo pants pocket or jacket pocket. Forget about slim cut or even straight cut pants. My cargo pants especially on the lower pockets could fit in my Fujifilm ex1 with its pancake. That's APSC 'pocketable', LOL..
If we're talking cargo pants or a jacket, no one should be complaining about these DLs. But apparently there's a huge need on these forums for every new camera to fit into skintight Edwins, though out in the real world I've never seen this once.
When I think "pocket" I think the front pocket on a pair of jeans. None of these cameras or their competition are suitable for that, unless you have huge baggy pants - not to mention the abuse the camera takes being forced in and out of a tight place on a regular basis. All of these cameras will fit in a jacket/hoodie pocket or inside pocket on a coat, side pocket of a backpack, etc. which is how I suspect most of them will be carried.
I saw Nikon's own photo samples, which with nearly any camera look very good because the manufacturer creates them in controlled conditions, etc. But Nikon's don't impress at all. Same with actual samples from the J5.
I have been leaning towards the RX100 IV but the DL is more the control style that I prefer. Sadly it seems like the photos just don't compare.
Most likely they are the same 20.1mp BSI sony sensor. What you should be looking at is the lens infront performance. Shooting RAW it is up to you to get the color right. If you like ken rockwell go ahead and shoot jpeg SOOC.
Ask yourself this question. Would you bother taking a picture with a camera that's 8 years old? That's a long time in digital photography terms. If not, then why not? Presumably you shot RAW back then too?
You see, the problem with RAW is that it's just a little bit better than JPEG and it never teaches you anything. JPEG forces you to learn photography, but with RAW you can always sort of wing it and just deal with mistakes later.
In 10 years, raw or JPEG, this camera is going to be terrible. So assassinating a professional's character online over what format you shoot in a camera that won't be relevant in just a few years is really poor advice.
ap356 didn't like what he saw. Telling him to use raw isn't going to make it all that much better. Poop is still poop, even if you use a blender and a straw rather than eating it straight.
I quite like the camera and I'm considering it. Whether I shoot raw or JPEG has nothing to do with that.
Some pro photographers show you their best results that they took under conditions that are ideal for this sort of camera. The samples are resized. That doesn't mean anything- I am actually quite interested and if the lenses are as sharp as he says that could sway me from the RX100 which is only tack sharp at 28mm. But you have to keep that in mind- what you are seeing is the best possible result under specific circumstances- It's advertising, after all.
@Biological_Viewfinder "You see, the problem with RAW is that it's just a little bit better than JPEG and it never teaches you anything. JPEG forces you to learn photography, but with RAW you can always sort of wing it and just deal with mistakes later."
This is not really true because it's impossible to define "just a little bit better".
If your hightlights have blown in the JPEG they are gone. In RAW they are not (all gone). But you need to have a very good understanding of your camera's metering as well as the amount of highlights you are going to get back in the RAW file.
So, whether you shoot JPEG or RAW you still need to know what you are doing. You don't learn less just because you shoot RAW. Nor do you learn more just because you shoot JPEG.
People need to learn when to shoot JPEG and when to shoot RAW.
The G7X II (and other Canons) are not competition for the DL. Even the RX100 isn't much competition if you consider the AF system. I realize it's priced to compete with those cameras, but functionally it's kind of carved out a class of its own given that it has 1-series internals.
I don't get why cameras need to compete.The old chestnut that competition is good for the buyers is these days a bit of a stretch. The additions that various 1 inch sensor cameras bring is hardly earth shattering. It seems more like fanboy fodder.
I don't benefit by Nikon tapping in to Sony buyers especially when the Sony cameras may well be better while being slightly smaller.
My point is I don't care who makes the cameras, just make good ones.
It's really ticking the boxes in alot of ways....that 1:1 macro yo....that's probably the biggest deal about the Camera. I mean there's plenty of 24-70/100 cameras. This is the only one to do 1:1 macro.
If these cameras are as fast as the 1 series and the lenses are sharp. They will be the ones to beat in there specific coverage area.
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