LOVE?

I've learned not to LOVE THINGS THAT COLLECT DUST or RUST.
I do however, PREFER to be able to focus out of my cameras.

This CAMERA introduction leaves me in a blind spot. So much advancing the state of the art lately - until this.

Some more CAPS LOCK please, the other letters are too small.

The vloggers will love the pull out screen, the EVF will be useful for them some times like when it is too bright outside to see the screen.
Many that love the rangefinder layout will see it as a cheaper Leica alternative.

Most vloggers won't want to spend about $2000 on a camera. They generally use their smartphones or a much less expensive and easier to operate camera like the Canon M50.

The flip out screen is nice for vloggers, but it's low resolution and not the brightest and will be harder to see in sunlight and other bright conditions. Plus, when you have the screen flipped towards you so you can record yourself, you really value a touch menu because you can make adjustments that way. The A7c doesn't allow for that.

The type of vlogger successful enough to invest this kind of money is simply going to get an a7Siii. Indeed, many of the vloggers who review these cameras have been saying they have preordered the A7siii, none are saying they are getting the a7c.

@Thoughts R Us: "none are saying they are getting the a7c"

Then I guess this lady was smoking something? :)))

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UOnv-rdwxLI&t=302s

Wow...so you found the exception that proves the rule...

Congratulations.

@Thoughts R Us: I think I entertained you long enough for now. See you at the A7iv release! (prep some good "arguments", cause`this will be a big one!)

BTW, look at the reviews by Jared Polin, Manny Ortiz, and even Gerald Undone. All are quite critical of the usability aspects of the a7c, and strain to keep from going totally negative.

Gerald U gets kind of philosophical in a tech kind of way, and basically says, well, the camera kind of sucks, but because it repackages old tech in a smaller package, that it means it's time for Sony to come out with new tech. So therefore this camera is important! Gerald's a good guy but boy, was that putting a spin on it.

BTW the Sony a7siii is still a "top seller" ...not #1 but still a top seller at B&H, even though it's been available for preorder for a while but the new a7c is not a best seller. So people will pay for better features.

@janist74: I do agree that the a7 IV will be a big release for Sony but most think it won't happen until next year. The a7c is the camera that Sony will market for the holiday season.

I don’t even care for an EVF, this works out great. The ZV1 has no EVF, and this camera is similar to a FF ZV1. The EVF is like the RX100 series, meant to trust AF

So now one has to compare the a7c to a $750 point and shoot to make it look acceptable?

The ZV1, which of course has built in lens, is $750; the a7c with kit lens is $2100. If the a7c is merely a FF ZV1, then let's do some math. Let's start with that base price of $750. Let's be generous and add in another $550 for the FF sensor and the cheapo EVF. That would make it a $1300 camera. At that price it would be a good value.

It's funny seeing the mental contortions that people are going through to make excuses for the a7c.

Ide rather the camera had no EVF

".(almost like they work for Sony!)"

Or we are tired to correcting repeating lies and misinformations.

Thoughts R Us wrote, "(almost like they work for Sony!)"

Pot calling the kettle black 😅

Unfortunately it looks to be another victim of the cripple hammer. The a7c seems to be the first Sony E-Mount body where EFCS is permanently enabled at all times and cant be turned off.

Why do people want to disable the EFCS? My guess is that 99.8% of those using other Sony cameras never turn this mode off.

Cannot be disabled. Can be worked around with an ND. The shutter mechanism is new, Micro sized.

@ Mr_win: What exactly should you work around?

The chopped bokeh only occurs at high shutter speeds, use an ND to lower shutter speed below 1/1000. It might not be an issue, someone needs to test to see if it’s an actual issue, and if the shutter planes are very close, it won’t be.

Mr_Win: How often is this a real world problem? Especially since the lens itself matters more for the quality of the bokeh than this slightly noticeable very fast shutter speed effect.

Magnar, manny has a video on why not to use EFCS on large aperture lenses. The science has to do with the slit the shutter makes, not being on the same plane as the electronic plane. If your using 1.4 prime’s or larger, like the voigtlander 1.2(small lenses), you can get bokeh that is chopped. Again, we won’t know how bad it is till tested, it depends on how close the shutter mechanism is to each other. Also, the max shutter speed is 1/4000, thus reducing the problem and forcing you to use ND’s at times when it matters most. This can be shown with the A73 using fast prime’s and 1/8000 speeds with EFCS on/off.

Mr_Win: I know EFCS, mechanical shutter and silent shutter very well from first hand experience (35 mm, 50mm and 85 mm f:1.4 lenses), using the cameras for paid work. I also run tests to learn my gear to know. This is the background for my question about the need for turning off EFCS.

It seems EFCS causes issues with third party flash systems in as much it will not allow them to fire. This would be an issue for me.

@ technotic: No, this is not caused by EFSC.

That's what I've heard from others including Gerald Undone. If it is the case then I would not buy the camera.

@ technotic: Probaby you are mixing up EFCS with full electronic shutter, which is a different setting.

No, others have said using EFCS (not full electronic) causes third party flashes to fire unreliably. I am not able to test this so I cannot confirm myself. In Gerald Undone's YouTube video on the A7C he mentions this for example.

Hard to understand how EFCS should prevent some flash systems to fire, no matter speedlites or studio flashes.

Yes I don't understand either but if it is an issue then I would not buy the camera.

@Halftrack "Why can't any of them ever get it 100% right?"

That's simply because if they would make a camera 100% right for you, it would still only be 50% right for some others. "Right" isn't an absulute term, and very relative. What's right for you today won't be right for you tomorrow, and as soon as you see that there is another camera with a slightly more sophisticated feature, the "grass is greener"-effect will kick in, and your camera won't be so right any more. Your camera may still have the same excellent IQ in 20 years from now, only you won't use it because you'd be ashamed to walk around with it.

That's just the world we live in. (We = the gearheads on dpreview who are real "pros" at trashing other brands' cameras, but not so much at taking great photos.)

Well, I'll be surprised if the upcoming A7IV doesn't have at least as much capability as the A7C, plus the three items I mentioned above (and a front control dial too, for those who want that). If you don't need a super compact body, it's probably worth waiting for that one.

Every time Sony releases a camera, I find I am more excited for their *next* release than for whatever they just put out. It always seems like they're this close to getting it together and hitting a home run, but they never quite pull it off. At least, not yet anyway.

The only real problems on A7C are

1. the shutter - they only seem to have EFCS and no rear shutter curtain

2. single card slot

The viewfinder is not breaking records but is of size that DPreview raved about 10 years ago. It is very much usable.

Touch interface is not great or complete. Yet I suppose it is similar to A7r3 and A7m3. I use the touch screen as touchpad to move the focus point and it is way faster than joystick. So not an issue.

I will probably give this A7C a chance given a good offer comes along around christmas or next spring. I think it would make a dream travel camera.

if they included all the 'popular features' people wanted, it wouldn't fit the price point the market wants, and potential customers would be put off until it was further discounted.

live, die, repeat.
all camera makers seem to be stuck inside this loop.

Stujomo, I do get that logic. It's sad though that the manufacturers feel like they have to artificially hold things back—it means that they don't think their generational improvements are enough to make people upgrade in and of themselves. The A7C is basically an A7III in a more compact form and with updated autofocus—and a worse EVF, no joystick, no front dial, outdated menus, and outdated touchscreen.

None of those drawbacks were necessary! The C-series doesn't have to be a neutered version of the A-series. Sony could release C-series cameras mid-cycle, as basically miniaturized versions of the then-current A-series counterpart plus whatever incremental updates they can shoehorn into them. Keep the same sensor, but otherwise don't hold back! Then later release the next A-series camera, with a new sensor and whatever other improvements they can come up with.

There's room for Sony to release desirable cameras year after year without pulling punches. I wish they would!

I dislike Fuji for their weird to me design, lacking grip and awkward handling.Yet the X-E series was something I contemplated due to the form factor. I am really happy that Sony finally delivered great IQ in small body.

I hope for you Fuji soon deliver a new X-E camera. Fuji also used a bigger viewfinder :-)

" lacking grip"

This can easily be fixed by an inexpensive, passive Arca-Swiss adapter. Some of them add a significant grip to the currently non-existing one.

Wait until you find out about the fix f11.

Also keep in mind that kit lenses are meant to be "starter" lenses, something just to get people started shooting. You can always change your lens or upgrade your lens later. Having a slow kit lens isn't the end of the world.

Which f11 lens is a kit lens?

You don't have to buy the kit lens, but I have seen great work made with such lenses.

@Waldi72
Latest Sony AF tech can and will track anything you desire. These are "smart" cameras in many ways.

@ S_Connor
I know Sony AF is very good. I wrote back in response to the technique of focusing with central focal point and recompose.
In many situation is better to use joystick or touch sensitive screen to tap focus point than recompose.

No it isn't better. Joystick is different and the other options are easier, faster and not old-fashioned.

waldi, you can still point and lock and theoretically the camera will follow a moving subject as you compose how you want. You didn't suggest how a joystick or touch screen could possibly be faster than point and lock.
I never get a straight answer to this question.

Personally, I prefer to compose my photo before focusing. I don't like having to hold a button or half-press the shutter while figuring out my composition; it makes it harder to keep the camera steady. Also, in low light one may prefer to fall back to AF-S when AF-C starts to struggle.

Plus, Sony's real time tracking is not actually perfect—sometimes it may lose focus lock, or decide to focus on something else. The longer the camera has to track the subject the more likely it is to make a mistake, so sometimes you'll want to give it a hand by composing first, focusing second.

Lastly, if your subject is moving a lot you may simply not have time to focus and recompose! You need to pre-set your AF point where you expect your subject to be, and then grab it as it passes through the frame. If I don't want an animal's eye dead-center in the photo, I will want to set my AF point off to one side so that I start out with a good composition rather than having to recompose on a moving subject.

Relax, you can do that

"Lastly, if your subject is moving a lot you may simply not have time to focus and recompose! You need to pre-set your AF point where you expect your subject to be,"

This is illogical. If it's a person or animal, you can't predict. And, point and lock is far faster than fiddling with a button or stick.
If focus tracking is good, like on most Sonys, it will track the subject regardless of how you selected the subject.

To waldi:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DjFXXAdNsbQ

@Abel

The Z5 is nowhere near A7III to compete with, the Z6 is.

The only advantage for the Z5 vs A7c is that it has a better ergonomics.

It is inferior in terms of low light
Inferior in terms of AF
And the list can go on.

Choose Nikon if you don't mind their limited lens line-up.

Nikon has a great lens lineup with both their Z lenses and using their wide array of F mount lenses with the Nikon FTZ adapter.

For an unbiased comparison, you can read this article:
https://www.dpreview.com/articles/6196822450/lenses-for-mirrorless-how-canon-nikon-panasonic-and-sony-full-frame-options-compare

it is better than A7 original. It has same resolution but the A7c has 120 Hz refresh and Sony also have fixed the tearing problems that plagued earlier cameras. So thisis much better EVF albeit with small magnification.

The EVF should be more than enough to compose photos. It will be somewhat difficult for manual focusing

The EVF will be difficult to use for those who wear glasses...

Plus the EVF is the window on the world for the camera...it's how most stills photographers experience the camera. It adds to the experience of taking photos to have a nice EVF. This is supposed to be a fun, carry anywhere camera...but it will be no fun to use that EVF.

Thoughts R Us really? So how did people with glasses use D300, 7D and A700 ?

You are showing you know nothing of cameras .....

and this anonymous handle sorry but hyper ugly.....

Kiril: really, that's the best you can do? Bring up cameras over a decade old, and say that people got by with the lesser features, and so don't worry about it?

Talk about making excuses.

You do realize that this argument about how a feature is not that important because people in the past got by without it, could be applied to any technological advancement, including features that Sony has?

Hey, why does one need Sony's advanced AF tech? People in the past got by with manual focus? Who needs the DR of Sony sensors? People in the past got by without it.

Who needs the small size of Sony bodies? People in the past got by with larger and heavier cameras. The list can go on and on.

Heck, who even needs cameras? People in the past just made drawings.

I'll say it again: if you have to compare the EVF of the A7c with cameras from 2007 and 2009 in order to make it seem reasonable, then that is a big fail from Sony.

@ Based: Nice for cherry picking, isn't it? So that people can refer to sourches to support their experiences ... sorry, I mean their comments. 😁

What?

The consensus of reviewers is that the EVF is low quality, and very hard to use if you wear glasses, the back LCD is also low quality, and lacks the touch menu's common in most ILC's these days.

It has no front dial, only one custom button, last-generation menus, and very limited touchscreen functionality. I can already tell how badly it handles.

Hillarious! Here those "specialists" are again, defending their personal view on this camera! Bashers, who will never ever use the camera for real world work! Those who already know what is good or bad for everybody else! Aren't they cute, those "helpful" nay-sayers?

From when on did Thoughts R Us start quoting consensus?

Remember when TRU said, “it seemed that in certain outdoor conditions the a7sIII had more problems than the R5.” But TRU’s statement was against the consensus (only 2 or 3 people were able to overheat it in normal modes if I’m recalling correctly).

Source https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/sony-a7s-iii-initial-review?comment=0108346562

@ Handsome90: Just look at what Thought R Us has posted in Sony related treads, and then sum up his arguments. It sounds like a person driving his noisy 2 seat heavy duty pick up (high end DSLR), wondering why family people don't do exactly like him, and instead are buying small five seat sedans (mirrorless or lower end DSLR cameras) ...

@ Relaxed: The problem is that commenters here cherry pick what thy find bad, becaust this fit their agenda. You can see exactly the same for other brands, so this is not to defend the brand that this tread is about.

Not quite honest second hand info sharers ... that's my point.

Funny how magnarw endorses every sony product on this site. I wonder does he own them all?

There is also gyroscope data recorded, so you can use Catalyst Browse to stabilize video.

Usb 2.0
Memory stick
Uhs I only
All the video specs
No BSI sensor - horrendous rolling shutter

1/4000th max shutter speed on a 'flagship'???

Its embarrassing to compare the A6600 specs vs the 2014 NX1. How can a 2019 camera be so outdated?

Since you mentioned the a6600 and Xt4, look at the IBIS comparisons. Apparently the a6600 isn't helpful at all during video (just as the a7c lBIS looked useless in this article's video).
https://www.imaging-resource.com/news/2020/07/21/ibis-showdown-2020-gh5-vs-x-t4-vs-e-m1-iii-vs-a6600-image-stabilization

The a6600 does look like a camera that was outdated in 2014 vs. The NX1 and even more so against the XT4.

Come back when nx1 can auto focus like a6600.

Wow the a6600 has slightly better AF than a camera from 2014. But virtually every other spec is worse.

Its a moot argument. While you can still buy both cameras, both Samsung and Sony APSC are dead end systems. Only Nikon, Canon, and Fujifilm will make APSC from now on.
Come back when Sony announces a new APSC or A mount camera.

user8675309 Come back when canon announces a new apsc and new lenses... :/

The slightly better runs circles around nx1.

There is no comparison.

Ironic you guys telling him to 'come back'. That's what he's been doing for years!

"Ironic you guys telling him to 'come back'. That's what he's been doing for years!"

So much comings, so little time. Every time with a different name. :-D

Thank you TRU for letting me know that the camera will not be fun to use. We are so happy that there are clever people like you, so we don’t have to make up our own minds...... I haven’t had the chance to work with the camera. Luckily you have tested it for hours...... And as a none Sony user or may I say “professional Sony hater” your verdict of the camera is very important to me. Keep up the good work and spent all your time on Sony bashing.....

@Carol C

//Oh, and why couldn't they just add a dial around the shutter button like the GX8????//

The camera is targeted at A6xxx users, which is why it is in an A6xxx series body. The shutter locking collar is a signature design element. Replacing it with a Canon M6 style dial would work well in terms of functionality but depart from that.

I prefer Sony ergonomics over Canons lowly 20 MP sensor.

Sure, go to the trouble of upgrading the sensor, but keep a design flaw for consistency. Loyalists gonna loyalist, I suppose.~

Then again, nothing to me, no one forcing me to buy one, and I have no interest in this form factor whatsoever, especially at this price with this EVF and monitor. If it works for people they are quite blessed. :)

@Carol T

//but keep a design flaw for consistency.//

All brands do this. Not sure why you're talking about loyalists, I'm just telling you why there's no dial around the shutter release, not saying it's a good thing.

@based... look at the other comments and deduce from there, it isn’t hard.

Which comments exactly?

@Based,

See the word sensor in this comment. “ I like the form factor and the amazing AF, but everything else, starting with the sensor, the atrocious rolling shutter, the subpar IBIS, the menu system, the 8 bit video Codecs, the dysfunctional touchscreen functionality and the small-ish VF is just a little bit outdated in order to make this camera worth the 2000 bucks it is asking for.” Source https://www.dpreview.com/videos/5026282509/dpreview-tv-sony-a7c-review?comment=3769202228

Another one here commented saying terrible colours, “ The only thing more painful than the grip and controls is looking at the Sony colors. :D” Source https://www.dpreview.com/videos/5026282509/dpreview-tv-sony-a7c-review?comment=9009118616

@based... let me go back through the 228 comments, make a spreadsheet, and I’ll get back to you ... well, never.

@John Gellings

//Apparently, Sony cameras are for spec chasers.//

I would say that's Canon:
• 8K
• 20fps on a non-stacked sensor
• F1.2 lenses.

@Handsome:
You quoted my post to demonstrate how some commenters allege the Sony A7c may not be able to take great photographers (as proposed by the OP).

However, that's a gross misrepresentation of my post! I only said that some technical aspects of the A7c are outdated and thus may not justify the price tag of 2000 bucks.
Of course the A7c is more than capable of taking phantastic photos - just as many other cameras - no questions about that.
I questioned, whether its advantage in size actually justifies its relatively high price compared to competing models from the same as well as other brands.

@John Gellings Theres literally not a single comment saying the a7c is not capable of taking great photographs. Most comments are discussing the overpriced RRP and crippled features.

@based... I have the ability to read through the lines and I, personally, am not opposed to using hyperbole on the internet to make a point. I'm going to say this... you win man, you win. ;)

Not an argument. Feel free to post those said comments when you find them.

It's pretty bad when you have to compare with cameras over 10 years old to defend the poor viewfinder on the A7c.

@Thoughts R Us: Sure, but a small viewfinder is still better than no viewfinder, like on the Canon M6 II... ;-)))

"but a small viewfinder is still better than no viewfinder"

That's a false dichotomy. A camera without a viewfinder isn't really targeted at people who need or want a viewfinder. You don't buy such a camera and then complain about the lack of a viewfinder, do you? But if you buy a camera with a viewfinder because you need that feature, then you probably prefer a good one over a mediocre one.

"But if you buy a camera with a viewfinder because you need that feature, then you probably prefer a good one over a mediocre one."

Yes right, but then again most people look through the viewfinder in the store before they buy a camera, or if not, they inform themselves about what they buy before. And don't forget, the A7c does have a quite usable viewfinder, just not the largest one out there.

It's a new release. Sony has to recoup their R&D expenses, and wants to capitalize on the gearhead early adopters who will pay full price. The A7III has been out for years, so the R&D is recouped and the early adopters are gone. That said, the A7C costs less than the A7III did when new. It's a bit silly to compare prices of new cameras against old ones—the A7C will come down in price over time, just like the A7III did.

That said, if you think the A7III would suit you just as well as the A7C and you can find the III for cheaper, buy it! Keep in mind that there's an A7IV on the horizon though, which will probably cost about $2,000, be more capable than the A7C, and drive down the cost of both the A7C and the A7III.

But you can't rebut what I wrote....

Just curious Thoughts R Us when did you start rebuttals? Is this your rebuttal technique in an R5 article? https://ibb.co/s59rXvV

@Handsome90: BTW, that link of yours to ibb.co....I had not seen that site before, but I googled "what is ibb.co" , and it seems that there may be a problem with it...the first response in the "snippet" is:

"Ibb.co virus is a cyberthreat that affects users on all platforms and displays intrusive content on Google Chrome or other browsers. ... Additionally, according to users, the image hosting site image.ibb.co accommodates malware and even ransomware."

Okay here is the link https://www.dpreview.com/articles/8653213690/canon-r5-r6-overheat-claims-tested-stills-shooting-setup-quickly-cut-into-promised-capture-times?comment=9248234908

That person clearly doesn't understand marketing at all.

Sony released a 4k FF camera with no time limits exactly when canon was releasing a camera that they hyped the video and that failed to deliver. It just killed the R5 before it was even on the shops.

This A7C is something no other brand is offering so the release date had no importance. It would always be on the market at the same time as the A7SIII. And to be at this price point, it would need to have the same old processor, and same menu system.

And this isn't the camera for someone looking for high specs. Is a camera for someone looking for small size. And for anyone that already has a Sony camera, having a second camera with a different menu system would be a PITA. So the old menu for me is quite a good thing actually.

"But you can't rebut what I wrote...."

Here you go

"Sony got the order of release of the A7SIII and a7c wrong, at least for the purpose of marketing the a7c. "

This is his opinion and all it takes to rebut his is another contrary opinion. Here it goes, he is wrong.

Done.

"If the order had been reversed, the flaws of the a7c may not have been as glaring to Sony users and fans, at least at first. "

Another opinion. Wrong too. Done once more.

"Sony built its customer base on gearheads who want advancement; now that comes back to bite them in the a7c when they don't offer it and even go backwards in some areas."

Another opinion and again wrong.

You think your opinions are facts. You can delude yourself. If you want us to believe then bring facts out.

@zxaar: of course what I write and most of us write on forums like these amount to our opinions. That's the point of having these forums and these discussions.

That doesn't really need to be said, does it?

Thoughts R Us, if you go from a A6x00 to a A7X, you notice the difference in size. So, no, the other Sony cameras are not small enough for someone that wants a small kit. It's a reason some people kept the APS models and didn't go to FF.

And if you already have an A7III, this won't be the camera to go for. It's not an upgrade to that camera. The question is more to street shooters. How many are interested in a RX1 with interchangeable lenses?

And sure, the R5 is sold out everywhere. People that preordered it haven't received it. But canon has sold R5 to people that hadn't preordered it.... I don't think the R5 are sold out because of a big interest... Stores are saying they don't even know when they'll received them. It's not that they're flying out. They're just not even being sent to stores.

@Thoughts r Us

//Also you write "It just killed the R5 before it was even on the shops." That's just wrong, given the sales of the R5. It's still sold out everywhere and is selling very well.//

The R5 may be doing well but the A7sIII appears to be outselling it. It managed to enter the BCN top 50 last month. The R5 isn't there.
https://www.bcnretail.com/research/ranking/monthly/list/contents_type=101

As for your blogger comments about the order of the A7C release being wrong, the cameras are intended for completely different users. The A7C is designed to draw aps-c Sony users into buying FF lenses. The limitations of the EVF and no joystick will not bother them as that is what they already have in their aps-c bodies. The camera is meant to be familiar to them. Your un-named blogger is a complete idiot.

Rubberdials
There is something wrong with your interpretation of the BNCretail. I clicked on the link you provided. Sony A7s III is 46th, Canon R6 44th, Canon R5 26th. So what sells better?

@rubberdials: the R5 is still the #1 seller at B&H while Sony A7SIII is only a top seller.

Also, I know you like Amazon and the R5 is ranked higher than A7SIII there.

Both cameras will sell well, but R5 is clearly the hit of the season. If you go to Canon forums, people are always asking where they can find bodies in stock, and as soon as one pops up somewhere, it's sold. So deny reality if you wish...

Waldi72

//There is something wrong with your interpretation of the BNCretail.//

Yes, you are right, the R5 is at 26 and the R6 at 44. I apologise - neither camera was there when I last looked. Both are higher than the A7sIII at 48, although the Sony and the R6 are rising and the R5 is falling.

Thoughts R Us

//Both cameras will sell well, but R5 is clearly the hit of the season. //

The R5 is already going down. It won't sell in large numbers, it's too expensive. The A7rIV or A7rIII isn't in the top fifty either. The A7III has never left it. The R6 should linger and outsell the R.

//If you go to Canon forums, people are always asking where they can find bodies in stock//

And how many thousands have people have done that? The comments in the Canon forum represent what 25 people? Some of the people who claimed to have bought the camera are not telling the truth sadly, like yourself, who claimed to have bought the Z7 and R when they came out.

Thoughts R Us, if you go to canon forums people are always asking where they can get the R5.. but it's always the same guys... And you're not getting a lot of people saying they got the R5...

And the R5 is definitely not the hit of the season... In the BNC link, the A7III with and without lens are both ahead of the R5. So the A7III is selling twice as much.

Thoughts R Us, you have B&H saying they don't even know when canon is sending them the cameras. They're still waiting to send them to the people that have preordered them... It's not that they're selling a lot. It's just that canon isn't sending cameras... That's why you have "a lot" of people looking for them. Same guys that were looking for them a month ago.

Thoughts, when I see your comments I just keep scrolling. I never even read anything you have to say, anymore.

@PAntunes: the fact that B&H is out of stock on the R5 has no bearing on the fact that the R5 is still their #1 selling FF camera. Their current sales ranking is based on current orders; not past orders that are unfulfilled.

In fact the fact that it is selling so well is why they are always out of stock!

And yes, Canon is sending cameras...there are people receiving them...it's just that demand still remains so high. You can deny that all you want but it won't change the reality.

Another remarkably nonsensical comment from TRU ; How can the "the usability of this camera " be affected by "things like the poor EVF, poor LCD, no touch menu etc." in any material way ?

I accept that I can't speak for all photographers, but I use the viewfinder to frame a photo, get some indication of the exposure and sometimes to double-check some of the settings shown there. How can a few thousand extra or fewer pixels make any significant difference ?

As for the LCD, be it touch-sensitive or not, I would guess that this "feature" would contribute less than one percent of the factors that make the difference between a good photo and a poor photo.

Usability is probably one of the most important factors in using any tool, esp a high tech tool. I almost can't believe that anyone would doubt that.

Ask a pro...they value usability above just about everything else, including many performance specs.

So why did Sony put a very nice EVF, the nicest one yet on the market, in the A7SIII if that made no difference? Why did they add the touch menu's? Why do all other brands offer touch screen menu functionality?

It's very simple: if a tool is harder to use, people generally don't get as good a result. Then there's also this related bit: if a tool is harder to use, people generally won't use it or enjoy it as much, and thus it becomes less useful simply on those grounds alone. Then there's this other related bit, if someone doesn't use a tool as much they won't develop as much in their art or craft, and thus will not get as good a result.

So if you really want to argue that usability doesn't matter, go for it.

"Usability is probably one of the most important factors in using any tool, "

Thats why R5 was garbage. Who wants to wait 30 minutes to use the camera. Seriously crippled and not practical.

One final try to get a coherent response from TRU ; I wrote "How can the "the usability of this camera " be affected by "things like the poor EVF, poor LCD, no touch menu etc." in any material way ?"

This can't be interpreted as saying usability is unimportant unless the English language is a work in progress for you.

I fail to see how "usability" is more important than image quality, lens availability and breadth of functions but I am not a pro'.

MFT still win on lightweight lens and IBIS.
for example where is Olympus 116g 45mm F1.8 in FF?

@Jefftan FF Samyang 75mm 1.8 is 230g. I will take that IQ on FF for 114g difference in my backpack.

https://camerasize.com/compact/#692.93,487.869,ha,t