Is the Panasonic S5 a camera for still photographers or videographers? Chris and Jordan answer this burning question with a resounding, "Yes." Okay, that's not really an answer. But after spending some time with a nearly-final S5, they've come to the conclusion that this is a highly versatile hybrid camera at an attractive price point.
Great review, well done, covered most features. I have one objection to his comment about lenses. There are no lenses beyond 200 mm for the L mount. Not much of help for wildlife.
Comparisons S1H and S5 video focus (from 6:50 minute) is made with different aperture (F/4.0 for 1H and F/5.6 for C5). S5 at this point have much bigger depth field, which makes autofocus system less sensitive. As a result of that, background magnification changes will be less visible. In few words with bigger depth field autofocus system less changing focus or not changing at all. Second thing, which can also have the influence on results, is the distance to the main object. You can see that test with S5 was made bigger distance on which depth field will be also bigger. So both factors, which can have influence on background magnification changes helps S5 looks better.
Comparisons S1H and S5 video focus is made with different aperture (F/4.0 for 1H and F/5.6 for C5). S5 at this point have much bigger depth field, which makes focus system less sensitive as a result, background magnification changes will be less visible. In few words with bigger depth field AF system most of the time do not change focus.
Panasonic did make small micro43 cameras and then ... they made bigger and bigger micro43 cameras (like the G9, as big as a DSLR) and then... now with the S5 they say to us : Hey look how small our Full-Frame camera is ! Why do you want to stay in the micro43 world ? I hope i am wrong because their FF lenses are really big and i will never go with them in the FF world.
The " sample images from this episode" are beautiful , much better than the official "sample gallery" further on . I was put off by the bulk of the initial S1 , but this camera looks really good .And the 20-60 kit lens is excellent . 20 is my favorite wide angle FOV . These Pana FF lenses, they are just " elegant " .Jesus, just when I thought I had made up my mind with the Nikon Z5 ...
$2k for UHS-I? I can't do that in 2020. Sure, videographers are okay with that for this camera's video specifications but I just can't go back to UHS-I. At least the frame rate is poor.
Still that DfD wobble too. Better, but it's still lipstick on a pig.
Less-impressive EVF as well?
All of this for $2k? Sheesh. Unless you shoot video and can use the superior abilities I don't understand this over a Z5.
Sadly I have to agree. This is soo close, yet misses the mark. The Z5 has some auto-focus speed issues, and I'm not a fan of the huge pentagonal flash unit that Nikon uses, but it is better valued if you only care about photography. OTOH if you need a hybrid camera this might be better, but it's hard to recommend without PDAF.
Z5 autofocus speed? I haven't seen anything about that except in low light. It's the same, now really good, system that's in the Z6 but with inferior low-light AF, apparently somehow related to the older sensor.
the problem with panasonic pricing is their cameras plummet in value like nothing else. S1R was selling used for under $2K pretty much couple of months after its release and now can be had for $1700-1900 used. S1 goes for $1500 or less used. This released at $1999 means it will be $1K in a second. I have not seen photo gear from any other manufacturer go down in value that quickly. Maybe Panasonic prices it too high to begin with?
For a really long time it was the same way with their M4/3 gear, and I don't think it's strictly because initial pricing wasn't competitive... Pana doesn't seem to enforce MSRP as much as other brands, their lens pricing seems to fluctuate a bit more than others' too.
Over the last couple years or generations of M4/3 gear they seemed to get a handle on this, and have actually been selling their last gen bodies (x85 series) at reduced but stable prices (a lot like Sony) rather than clearing them out in a fire sale, which in turn kept current gen pricing more stable (the G9 might be the one exception, tho it's held at $1K).
It's probably a combination of things, I don't think they've ever had the best distribution chain in the US for one, and something as simple as mishandling stock can lead to retailers wanting to get rid of some quicker...
The S1R is $3,397.99 on Amazon. Used prices in Amazon start at $2,429.48 On ebay of the 10 most recent S1R's sold the lowest price was $2,095.00, but like anything there were some sold for less in the past. (a brand new A7Riv sold for $1,799.00 on 7/14)
I bought a Sony grey market A7Riii for $2100 less than a few months after its release. That was over $1000 less than what it was selling for everywhere else.
And if anything the new FW will drive used prices and demand up a little.
nope. look at Canon and Nikon body prices, how slow the prices fall. Canon 5DM3 which is 2012 camera still sells used for around $900.
Noah M. I go by Fred Miranda for sale board prices as it is the largest in the US for sale photography board, where every second something sells, and has reliable sellers and buyers who more often too conservative with their listings. S1R with 1000 actuations $1799 advertised (i am sure sold cheaper) https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1660680/#15325732
Like I showed it is easy to find outliers. The A7Riv has sold for those prices and less, but neither are as common. The last 10 S1R cameras sold on ebay sold for over $2000.
You are basically cherry picking. Why would anyone buy an A7Riv for over $2000 when some sold for $1600? That's your argument, right?
Great video guys! I love watching these videos from people who "get" Panasonic cameras. I was wondering if it would answer the question of whether it's worth me switching from my S1, and I guess the answer is "uhh, yes.. and no..?"
Thank you so much for mentioning at the end of the video that the S1 is getting the same AF via the firmware update. Is there any more information on this at this point? I'd been waiting to see them make an announcement about that at the same time as S5 announcement but I guess it does make sense for them to keep that closer to the chest. I use the MC-21 and in too many scenarios it just feels unusable right now (but dead accurate once it does focus..)
I'm curious as to whether the S1 would also get shutter angle options - I understood them not offering it on the S1 in the context of market segmentation, but if the S5 has it then I really hope they'll do it for the S1 too.
That's why I didn't buy the S1 or Sigma fp and I went on to try the S1R after it launched. Another downside was the S1 series is bigger and heavier than others, now the S5 falls down to the market average. It's a pity though, Panasonic makes special video oriented lenses that can focus quickly without any breathing but on Panasonic body you will get jittery AF, sometimes even losing the subject completely.
Welp, based on their financial reports their Imaging Network Business Division posted growth for the past couple of years excluding 2020 / COVID. I guess CDAF must work for some customer segments
I think you should be agnostic about the underlying technology and just judge the results.
PDAF WILL be obsolete someday. There's no reason why a camera can't be taught to autofocus with only pixel information. What they need is a predictive model for when maximum contrast is reached so that there is no pulsing. Again, this should be relatively straightforward to train and would eliminate pulsing. I am not sure why this has not been done yet. Not enough software people at camera companies?
It’s more accurate and the IQ of the picture is better as pixels are not taken up by sensors. No banding on Panasonic cameras. They are cameras for the picture perfectionists
I'd rather guess it's not as easy in practise as you suggest it is. In a lab environment it's probably easy. In messy real world situations, especially the more "visually messy" and the more active/dynamic the environment is, the harder it'll be to train for.
I disagree. The human eye can a priori view when things are at maximum contrast without going past max contrast and back. I think it's a relatively simple problem that is easily generalizable by a CNN. It would also be very simple to generate a ridiculous amount of training data for this.
The human eye - and much of our biology and mental capabilities; both conscious and unconscious - are vastly different from "artificial intelligence" / neural networks. Neither is better than the other across the board - but to simply assume that something our eyes do easy is easy for computers - and vice versa - is simplistic.
For everyone curios about the Panasonic DFD CDAF performance, here is a a real life test of the "state of art"* Panasonic S5 AF: * Quoted from their press release.
One detail that matters to me is the viewing angle in evf. I owned the Lumix G85 for a while and I had a perfect view of all the frame area to the corners without moving right and left. And I believe the S5 has the same evf resolution and magnification as the G85. Not sure wether the optics play a part as well. Hope the evf is as good. A bit low resolution doesn’t really bother. I prefer the better battery life. The ergonomics are great. Enough buttons and dials at the right places. Looks like a very well rounded higher mid range camera.
It's not just mass, but size they are also targeting. That was the promise of mirrorless. Ultimately, to your point, there is only so small you can go. In a perfect world, manufacturer's would offer a selection of grips like they used to.
And on all others a L-bracket with grip attachment. There are various ones around for all camera models. But if I am going to add 100g+ in grip extension and permanently attach them they might as well just make the grip taller.
And it's no like the overall size of the camera has to increase much. Panasonic shows on their own G9 that a larger grip can come in a similar-sized body. And an R6 is just barely larger, lighter and has a taller grip
Sure, but what about the inverse? What about those with smaller hands who are tired of carrying around unnecessary mass and size? You can't please everyone, but it's easier to add size than it is to remove it.
Can you point to a frame/timestamp where you see this issue? The shots he was doing vertically shows all fingers comfortably on the camera (index on shutter, three fingers on grip and thumb on the back). If you're talking about carrying around the camera, ok, but can't you just carry it with your pinky, ring and middle finger plus thumb?
Edit: Also, my wife can easily fit her whole hand on the E-M1 and Z6. Edit 2: At 1:30 you can see all three fingers are (just) on the grip. I don't see the problem. I had the G9 (medium-sized hands as well) and the inverse problem can occur where depth/curvature on the bottom can make you over-extend your fingers.
I use the Meike Grip extension on the Sony, adds Arca/Swiss capability (which makes the original part a little useless in my opinion). Works great!
But with a small and light lens (like the 55mm) ou really don't need it. It's a very compact and leightweight package many seem to like.
And don't forget - that's the size of old classic DSLRs and rangefinders! For some uses that's a perfect and beautiful package. If you need bigger - choose a grip (extension).
Chris and Jordan from DPReview TV have been handing out their 'best and worst' camera awards since 2013, with the 2020 awards announced yesterday on YouTube. In this article, Jordan reviews the winners and provides more detail on why they were selected.
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