DPReview TV: Sigma fp L first impressions

Thank you for this video. It's informative. I'm glad they included some sample stills that show the rolling shutter affect.

One thing they forgot to mention is that the fp-L is the highest resolution L mount camera, while still being one of the less expensive L mount cameras. For L mount lens owners, that fact alone could be the main reason to buy it. For landscape and product photographers, it's a no-brainer.

May 6, 2021permalink

thetoolman

The rent is just too damn high!

Apr 17, 2021permalink

I just wonder: Could you please give an explanation for the difference in colors (despite identical sensor) ? (I do not write color science because some people here are allergic against that word ...)
For photos it can be individually corrected. Ok. Takes some time. But what can I do with video, not so easy to correct ?
(I think the Sonys offer quite bad colors, even with the latest super expensive models. But much worse with all the older models.)

And while we are at it. Why did you never mention any problem with the a7R4 read out time of 1/10 ? (Or the 1/15 of the a7R3 ?). Afaik you never mentioned a warning that the electronic shutter of these cameras is almost unusable.

Apr 2, 2021*permalink

Sue Anne Rush

Thank you.

Apr 1, 2021permalink

Buttons252

I absolutely loved my SD Quattro, i only parted with it because i wanted one camera to do everything including video. If I could get a sony full frame sensor in a SD quattro body without that weird lens mount sticking out of the body i would jump on it.

Mar 31, 2021permalink

Akpinxit

the way Chris holding the camera tells me everything about it's ergonomics and how one's wrist will feel after a day-long shooting

Mar 30, 2021permalink

Have you ever used a Rollei 35 ? (Old filmcamera, same size, more or less.)
Some really loved it, probably also some hated it. (Nobody can please everybody.)

Apr 2, 2021*permalink

You would use this camera all day without a tripod?

May 6, 2021permalink

Akpinxit

does it comes with tripod ?

May 9, 2021permalink

Rodelcam

What do sample images tell us nowadays? All camera’s make great pictures. Better compare photographers.

Mar 30, 2021permalink

JoeOe

Ohh, Jordan, new curtains!11!

Mar 29, 2021permalink

Robert111

I don’t need or even want 61mp, so the Sony A7c is a better compact full frame solution for me. It has compromises but none fatal for my shooting.

Mar 29, 2021permalink

Well, there's the fp, with its 24 MP sensor for you, and you'll save about a thousand dollars.

May 6, 2021permalink

Nestorin

I think the review it's not fair, the approach of this camera it is the compactness, so complaining of using telephotos or swivel screen it’s out of place. Yes, the the sony arIV has more features, but if some one it's looking for a more compact package it deserves a look.

Mar 28, 2021permalink

TheBestCameraIsTheOneYouActuallyShoot

Sure, but would you really change systems for that? I think it's about the L mount. If you have a 24 MP L mount camera, and you want to step up to a high resolution camera for some reason, then get the fp-L, unless you need to shoot sports with it, or you can't live without a tilt screen. If that's the case, then you need to get yourself the bigger, more expensive Panasonic S1R.

May 6, 2021permalink

The comment on the past models was a great flashback lol.

Mar 28, 2021permalink

ottonis

When we look at the cameras Sigma has released in the past decade or so, we see a pattern: a specific set of features setting their cameras apart from the entire competition, at the cost of some other standard features and hampered functionality.

Cade in point: Sigma's foveon sensor cameras, e.g. the DP Merrill, that were aber to provide stunning and unprecedented levels of detail, while being usable only in good light and at low, ISO levels.
The new fp and fp L are the smallest FF cameras available today, and there are certain use cases that will hugely benefit from such as small camera size - at the cost of various limitations that might be relevant to some and less important to others.

That being said: Sigma doesn't even try to compete with other cameras but keeps its tradition on delivering very unique cameras, albeit for niche use cases.

That's great, keep on Sigma!

Mar 28, 2021permalink

Mike Stratil

I think you have overlooked two possible appeals of this camera:
(a) it provides access to all the fine lenses available in L format;
(b) it provides a very high resolution body at a price below others in this category.

But I agree that the poor AF performance is certainly a big negative.

Mar 28, 2021permalink

Fotoni

So it seems that Sigma fp L is a bit like Pentax K-1. They both are specialized cameras and K-1 used to be great value before they raised the price.

The big question is video capabilities because fp L stills capabilities are crippled. How it uses the 61 MP sensor in the best quality video mode will define its destiny. I seriously hope it is oversampling 4K from the full width resolution, but it is probably pixel-binning again just like fp does. Then comparison is needed between 24 MP and 61 MP pixel-binning to find out, if it can compete even against 24 MP oversampling

Mar 28, 2021permalink

Adam007

I don't buy this comparison. The K-1 certainly excels in places, and is left behind in others. Ask me how I know! But, the ergonomics are superb regardless of shooting situation, and the FP L may be the only FF camera that should be more afraid of moving subjects than the K-1! Specifics aside, my point is that the K-1 isn't nearly as restricted as the Sigma seems to be. You really need to want that super-small form factor to justify some of the compromises the Sigma entails for general photography.

Pricewise, the K-1 has always been an amazing value for what you get. the Mark 2 model (plainly on the downslope of its cycle) is the exact same price I paid for my Mk 1 4.5 years ago.

Mar 28, 2021permalink

egk4260

I would have to agree with Adam. The Sigma has certain limitations by design. The K1 is seen as a specialty or niche camera not by design, but primarily because potential users place far more value on the competent AFC seen in other offerings over some of the unique K1 features.

Mar 28, 2021permalink

turvyT

That rationale is sort of weird. Most of people do not take photos that require fast AFC or fast fps. Sometimes DPR destroys some camera just because it can not do well something that almost nobody needs or uses. And people keep repeating it and bashing some new camera (that they are never going to buy, not even try) as if they were professional NBA photographers going day in and day out to cover matchs, or were birders in the jungle covering for NGM. The specialty camera is the one that can support extremely fast AFC or extremely fast fps, not the other way around.

Mar 29, 2021permalink

BrentSchumer

TurvyT,

I've used cameras that are poor, good, and flawless with action, and you definitely notice the difference outside of sports. Any time you're shooting a kid or dog at play is one example.

And it's nice to have the option of shooting quick bursts for any kind of movement to get an ideal frame.

Your post really begs the question: What are you getting by giving up good AF? For Pentax, it's supposedly additional weather sealing (itself niche). For this Sigma? Erm...um...???

Mar 30, 2021permalink

turvyT

This is hybrid bird. the dual use of Video, thats your businness and trade off in this case. Many videographers use manual lenses. Or they prefer manual focus, something many late lenses are not well fitted to. For lots of photography, I would say 90% of uses, nobody needs the specs some DMLS boast of. They have the Casio watch spirit in them. And that's a simple reality, go to any massive public outing (I know, the Covid), and see what people use nowadays and the subjects they record with their cameras or pseudocameras. This senseless race for the most X, the fastest, etc is going nowhere, or, in my opinion, is only going against most of the same camera manufacturers, who build specialty cameras but cattered to the masses, everytime more expensive and complex, more battery dependent, and the masses end up getting a phone and forgetting about cameras. Sometimes a unique rechargeable battery is enough in one's life. But that's another matter.

Mar 31, 2021permalink

hikerdoc

Nobody reads or watches these reviews to actually assist in making a purchase decision. These reviews simply provide potential points of contention to assist in formulating snarky responses to those with different predetermined opinions.

Mar 28, 2021permalink

PAntunes

Not so sure about that. In my case I'm interested in what cameras can do regarding video that could help my workflow.

This one could be something to consider with the raw video options, updated AF, etc. The best way to really understand the potencial without buying the camera to test is actually to see others doing it.

For me, this helped.

Mar 28, 2021permalink

arjunmehta

They help showcase the camera in action, show how it could feel in the hand, understand shortcomings and how the camera excels. They often compare other cameras and that is also helpful.

I know they’ve helped me with purchase decisions and I find them incredibly useful and entertaining.

Mar 28, 2021permalink

KrisAK

@hikerdoc - watching the relevant bits of video autofocus and image IQ helped me take a hard pass on further considering this camera. (The addition of an index to the video's points of interest is a huge benefit in this respect.)

And there's no way reading about the AF can provide the same information as seeing actual footage.

Mar 28, 2021permalink

Daniel from Bavaria

I think it‘s a cool solution for some niches. For pure photography the electronic shutter can be a problem. For me it would very seldom be motion, but LED lights which very often generate a zebra-look when using the electronic shutter. In these Situation a mechanical shutter is a must.

And video is for me a non-topic.

Therefore, people who are buying this camera will know why and I applaud Sigma for trying different ways.

Mar 28, 2021permalink

forest dream

Sony A1 electronic shutter no longer has rolling shutter issue. May be few years later, camera no need mechanical shutter, become "mechless".

Mar 28, 2021*permalink

Daniel from Bavaria

And I will applaud ones it is not necessary any more, for any use case (rolling shutter, frequency interferences with LED etc. pp). On part less which can brake :)

Does any one know how the Sony A1 would deal with LED light. As said, my Leica SL2-S does produce a zebra-pattern like image under some LED-lights when I use the electronic shutter.

Mar 28, 2021permalink

PAntunes

The readout speed of the A1 is the same as the mechanical shutter in most cameras. So would be as good with LED light as other cameras with mechanical shutter

Mar 28, 2021permalink

Or they could use a global shutter sensor but global shutter sensors typically suffer in DR and is expensive.

Mar 29, 2021permalink

I do not know what to say about all the comments here. At least not how to say it in a friendly way.
So much ignorance. From the readers but to a certain degree also from the writers. Do you really think this camera is good for nothing ? And do you really think you should congratulate the writers if they left this impression ?

Maybe you should have a look at a website that a professional made with pictures from Sigma fp and fp L ?
Yes, you don't believe it but there are people who can live with the output of this tiny box.

Google for "blauvista and sigma fp L" . You will find the webpage of Mark James Ford. Take some time until all the pics are downloaded. Then read the text, you could maybe learn a few things that can be done with this tiny box. (Can you learn ?)

By the way, this website becomes more and more only a marketing platform. And many people here fight their marketing and brand wars.
Where are the people interested in photography ? Pure fun photography ..... ?

Mar 28, 2021permalink

?
People can make great photos with every camera. But does that mean the camera is great? No that would be a false conclusion. So why not make a real argument why the camera is great instead of pointing to some photos

Mar 28, 2021permalink

But this website builds on the principle: If we value a camera high and if we write this in our report, then people will make great photos with this camera. (And then people will buy this camera and then we will also get our fair share.)

Mar 28, 2021permalink

bobogdan78

Sorry but in case you haven't noticed already, photography (as an art form) is pretty much dead. There was film and then the first digital cameras trying to bring something special ... then ... everything was focused on the technical side - more megapixels, more resolution, more sharpness, improved stabilization, mind blowing af and so on ... colors? washed out, flat and muddy leaving you no other option but to amplify them using your favourite post processing routine. The result can be seen all over the place - artificial looking more like CG than a real photo.

Mar 28, 2021permalink

@Steppenw0lf
" If we value a camera high and if we write this in our report, then people will make great photos with this camera."

No, not at all. Then every camera since a 1940 4x5 would get a high score simply for the ability to create great photos. It is more "a camera gets a high score if it makes it EASY to get great photos"

And here the FP fails horribly as you can see in this video.

@bobogdan78
Modern cameras are capable of creating accurate colors. If you want colors as the art itself learn how to edit them. Easy as that

Mar 28, 2021*permalink

panther
No, in this case it was shown (pics and text) that this camera is too limited to make good photos with it. Unfortunately it was not shown by a "real professional photographer" but only by the boys. But we know the boys and we think they have enough experience to make good photos. So everything is allright ...

Sorry panther, your thinking is terribly short. Maybe you will never learn, maybe you will, much later.

Bye bye. Cheerioooooo !

Mar 28, 2021*permalink

@Steppenw0lf
It doesn't matter how good the photographer is.
Use it under artificial light > it fails
Use it with a moving subject > it fails
Use it as a static camera > it does at best just as well as the high MP competition by other brands but costs just as much while being less versatile.

>low score

Should a camera just get a high score because some photographer is capable of producing good results with it in limited circumstances? No way

Mar 28, 2021permalink

PAntunes

It's a great camera if you want to shoot flowers, maybe... Even the photographer you pointed at (sigma ambassador) uses an external monitor just because the screen can't tilt. That shows how unpractical that camera is.

It's got a great sensor and great video options, but that's about it. And for that price, you can get the A7RIV with the same sensor, and have also a mechanical shutter, better battery, more lenses, faster AF, etc...

Mar 28, 2021permalink

Steppenw0lf I wonder if with all the praise you are giving this camera if you plan to buy it?

Mar 28, 2021permalink

s1oth1ovechunk

The iPhone has taken a lot of great photos by professional photographers. If it didn't have a smart phone attached to it it's not a camera I would ever buy. Would you?

Also your snobbishness about"boys" is ridiculos and a total non sequitur. If you only care what people whose photos you admire think why waste any time with dpreviewtv? Go be a snob somewhere else. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder and you don't get to decide who can point and click and who can't.

Mar 29, 2021permalink

dbateman

This camera only makes sense of one of two things happened:
1. Sigma actually got a global shutter sensor in there. Then the small body and high resolution might have out weighed the cost that would have been expected.
2. Sigma got their 20:20:20 Foveon sensor in there. Its different, almost 60Mpixels and would have true color at every pixel.
But sadly neither happened and this just looks like an advertisement for the Sony A7R4, which I completely forgot about until this release. A camera better in every way.

Mar 28, 2021permalink

fourthirdcam

Haha! It's got that built in Lartigue motion-slant effect!

Mar 28, 2021permalink

Relaxed

I don’t always agree with the delivery, but you two are the only reason this site is alive with actual photography content.

Mar 28, 2021permalink

f1point4andbethere

Them and Roger Cicala's contributions. Talk about technical insight... 🤔

Mar 28, 2021permalink

beckmarc

Are lenses with a mechanical leaf shutter an option like the hasselblad X1D 50c models? It too has no inbuilt mechanical shutter but uses leaf shutters in the lenses. One could possibly adapt MF and Lf lenses with leaf shutters. It might be a fun project.

Mar 28, 2021permalink

That's a very interesting question... I wonder if there are options in the mount communication protocol to support that.

Mar 28, 2021permalink

Daniel from Bavaria

Very good point!

Mar 28, 2021permalink

Weia

Enough room for your nose is a good thing ;-)

Mar 27, 2021permalink

I've never seen Chris and Jordan completely trash a camera like this, but I'm glad they did, because they had so many reasons to do it. It shows they have good taste, common sense, and integrity. This was one of the best DPR video reviews I've ever seen, I was very impressed!

Mar 27, 2021permalink

What’s interesting is to see the contrast in the comments between this article and the initial release article. Seems there were a lot more people defending this camera on the written articles but when you see it, it becomes much harder to defend. It’s hard to see this as being the right camera choice for anyone given the competitive options.

I wish sigma well. We need them for their fantastic lenses.

Mar 27, 2021permalink

Good point Mike! Sigma makes great lenses, but their cameras suk.

Mar 28, 2021permalink

AbrasiveReducer

If it was Canon, Nikon or Sony, there is no way these guys would shrug their shoulders and ask who's it for. They'd find a problem that it solves. But with Sigma, whose core business is lenses, and whose cameras have always been peculiar, having a respectful difference of opinion is fine.

Mar 28, 2021permalink

I agree there are double standards. How we I really can’t figure out what this camera does better than a specific camera from canon Nikon or Sony?

How about the grip for a double standard? No one seems to have any problem suggesting you can add a grip to the Sigma to improve the ergonomics.. how does that suggestion go over on the Sony articles?

Mar 28, 2021permalink

Richard Murdey

It's not double standards, Sigma cameras are simply not designed to be "good" in the generalist way that dpreview defines "good".

Sony and the rest design to please as many user types as possible. Sigma designs cameras to do a very particular thing for a very particular niche, with little to no concession to generalist use.

Mar 28, 2021permalink

Bashing a camera, just because they cannot cope with it. Missing skills leading to a devastating report. And no interest to learn anything - or to be fair, maybe no time. Is this really the high art of journalism ?

There are professionals who work daily with these cameras. Just think a little about this ...
Could you try to find any, to get their opinion ? In the worst case, would Sigma have some links ? No better to write only his own opinion, even if it is based on only 3-4 hours "testing".

Mar 28, 2021*permalink

@MikeRan: I do not agree that there are double standards. When Sony cameras have rolling shutter it is mentioned, when Sony cameras have not so good IBIS it is mentioned, When Canon or Nikon cameras have less battery life it is mentioned, when ergonomics of one of those cameras are not as good it is mentioned.
So yes we have here one camera, that wants to be a stills oriented camera, but has a lot of problems being a good stills camera.
Telling that is just showing the truth. Can you show me ONE other modern camera that has all these problems combined in one camera? Please show us!

Mar 28, 2021permalink

@AbrasiveReducer: They do it every time. They ask who this camera is for. And with many cameras they can tell, they can tell it is best for video, or it is best for stills, or it is the best for hybrid shooting.
I can understand that they have trouble with a camera that has a 60mp sensor, but only do 4K video. So that sensor is not really needed for video, it is more stills oriented, but it has so many flaws for stills (like rolling shutter, like 1/15 flash sync, like battery life, like balancing the camera with EVF etc. etc.
It is important they show the shortcomings of a camera, people often don't like it but it is important.
They do a great job and I praise them for it!

Mar 28, 2021permalink

dylanphotolight

Well, Chriss and Jordan, did kind of trash the OMD5 MK3, as being low build quality, and Panasonic G90 (which I own) as being not exciting and having no special new features, and OMD 1 MK3 as being mostly reused parts, but were a fan of XS10 for example, but they have there reasons and they are good reasons, I just don't agree with all of them, :).

Mar 28, 2021permalink

Richard Murdey

Many of the faults are native to the camera's unique design. The rest are down to Sigma's quirkiness and "homebrew" R&D efforts. It's a camera you have to work around, sure, but all Sigma cameras have been like this. Didn't the Quattro software famously take 3 minutes to process a RAW image?

Sigma cameras have to be accepted on their own terms.

Mar 29, 2021permalink

Rihass

Nicely done Sigma. Now you only need to make the grip your camera is missing.

Mar 27, 2021permalink

TomCodyPleasedToMeetYa

You can get different grips...

Mar 27, 2021permalink

beckmarc

They offer the specification to design and 3D print your own grip

Mar 27, 2021permalink

Rihass

It was a joke. Grip attachments are the worst.

Mar 28, 2021permalink

Elisam

The worst? Is that from your extensive use of these cameras?

Mar 28, 2021permalink

Rihass

No, you guys are right. That is why sigma cameras sell so well.

Mar 28, 2021permalink

David610

Dimensions:

Sigma fp L with EVF 157 x 92 x 56 mm

Fuji GFX50R 161 x 97 x 66 mm

Mar 27, 2021permalink

forest dream

Sigma fp EVF should learn from Canon EOS M6's smaller optional EVF

Mar 27, 2021permalink

Elisam

When you say smaller, do you mean it’s tiny magnification? I assume that’s what you mean.

Mar 28, 2021permalink

forest dream

Canon EOS M6 EVF has smaller physical size than Sigma fp.

If want better in future, please learn from DJI drone transfer video via WiFi. Then consumer wear smaller Google Glass like EVF.

Mar 28, 2021*permalink

Elisam

I’m aware. It also has something like 0.62x magnification and only 2.4m dots. Vs 0.83x mag with 3.69m dots. It’s also no doubt much stronger made and has a much stronger attachment to the camera, something much complained about with the Canon EVF.

Mar 28, 2021permalink

catlyn

Sigma should at least learn out of every other camera manufacturer's experience - not copy, but, well, at least do most things other are doing (going to phase detect is a promising sign).

Otherwise, Sigma has basically made only commercially failed, sluggish cameras so far.

Mar 27, 2021permalink

AbrasiveReducer

Yes, but they keep at it. Failure is not an option, nor a deterrent, apparently.

Mar 28, 2021permalink

Harold66

Catlyn It is called thinking different . Yeah their cameras are not aimed at the same large audience than the big three but SIGMA approach is a refreshing one , even if you do not like them

Mar 28, 2021permalink

Richard Murdey

I think its more of a case of doing what you can with what you are capable of.

Mar 28, 2021permalink

TheRealYeats

Pentax K-01 sighting @ 10:16

Mar 27, 2021permalink

tinzi1

Excuse me 60 photos @ half battery life? Erm, what kind of photos are those and it's not even funny. I'm sure the battery suck, but it can't be 60 photos=50% bad.

Mar 27, 2021permalink

It all depend on how and where you use the camera. Chris tells it is not that cold, but it is not very warm either, so battery life will be worse then when it is 20 degrees Celsius out there.
Using the attached EVF will not do much good to the battery life either. So That is probably the reason.

Mar 28, 2021permalink

tinzi1

Yes, the cold&attachment definitely contribute to it, another explanation could be the battery wasn't at 100% to begin with, or playing with the new EVF attachment for considerable amount of time.

Mar 28, 2021permalink

Photoman

Looks...awkward...

Mar 27, 2021permalink

Raist3d

I would love if we could characterize at what shutter speeds you start to get banding under artificial light. 1/75? 1/50? 1/125?. If it's 1/75 and up that could still be used for some night shots.

Mar 27, 2021permalink

This is the right question to ask. I suspect you will see banding at shutter speeds as low as 1/20 or 1/30... and for most that is just too low to be practical.

Some real world tests around this would have been helpful.

Mar 27, 2021permalink

Mr Bolton

Despite the caveats, the imagery-both stills and video-coming from this camera looks fantastic.

Mar 27, 2021*permalink

If they were that fantatic, are you going to buy one? No, I thought not.

Mar 27, 2021permalink

I think the reviewers did a good job highlighting what the camera can do well. Basically the gallery is filled with landscape shots and a few naturally lit portraits and they are well done. I think outside of this kind of photography and perhaps a few other specialty genres, this camera will start to show its weaknesses.

Mar 28, 2021permalink

Mr Bolton

@snapa if I had the money..

Mar 28, 2021permalink

tedwill48167

I have toyed with Sigma cameras since the DP1. I love their Ingenuity. It seems to me that if the price point was closer to $1800 US, there wouldn't be as many negative to neutral reviews. I would love to try one with a great lens, but at this price, the R6, Z7II or the A7R IV would be a better buy.

Mar 27, 2021permalink

This camera really just seems to have too many caveats in stills and video be worth the $3000 (with EVF). Any of the Panasonic’s would be better if you wanted an L-Mount body and any of the Canons, Nikons, or Sonys would be better if you weren’t restricted in lens format.

Just hard to see who would buy this and why they wouldn’t be better off with one of the other options.

Mar 27, 2021*permalink

I agree.
Maybe Sigma "ambasadors" would by it?

Mar 27, 2021permalink

Yes I agree, you do not have the skills to use it. And obviously you also do not want to learn anything. But still you are happy that this camera has more caveats than your own camera.
Then take your photos and compare them with photos made with these Sigma cameras, if possible made by a professional photographer, not "the boys". (Or are they professional photographers ?)
Are you still so happy ? If yes, then great.
You say you know no professional using these cameras .... Well what could you do in this case ? What about the internet, google, etc. ??

Mar 28, 2021*permalink

@Steppenw0lf:
As you are probably a very good photographer, do you think you would choose this camera to take fast moving sports, or wildlife pictures with this camera?
Would you Choose this camera When taking lots of flash pictures, or pictures under LED light?
For all this this camera isnt as good as it could be so reviewers have to show that, and they did. They showed some great landscape sots, where this camera shines, but they also showed where it is bad. Good job!

Mar 28, 2021permalink

Gfrensen
It is obvious that this camera is not for sports or similar topics. The same for flash (but why not with constant lighting, like video).
No, they did not show any great shots, but others did (e.g. Ford).
I think generally they did not really read the manual (ok, maybe not there), and were not able to make good use of the camera. Especially they completely ignored the great colors (in photos but even more important in video, also important if the image taken was overexposed, or generally in bad lighting). And they did not really try to show the usefulness of the crop zoom mode. A specialty of this camera. (And nothing a Sony offers)
They also did as if the viewfinder was necessary. While in reality (e.g. macro or video) it is only an option, and often not really the best possible way to use the camera. (If I use a tripod anyway, then often a monitor is the better choice.)
Short: They used it like a conventional Sony. And surprise surprise, it was not the same.

Apr 2, 2021*permalink

@Steppenw0lf: You say this camera is not great in sports/fast action and not great when using a flash, and not great when using led light, then this camera is a very special camera. Great for landscapes and other mot fast moving objects.
They showed that AF is not very good (to be friendly, but that could change in the production model/by FW updates.) they show that this camera maybe good at video, but it is a strange choice to have a 60MP camera that could do 8K video (resolution wise) but you do not offer 8K, oir even 6K, again maybe a FW update, but not here.
In short this camera is very limited in use compared to other cameras in the market. That is what these reviewers tell and that is why this camera doesn't get much love. It is a fair review.
And for colours in stills there is a nice gallery with all the pictures, people can see for themself, colour is very personal!

Apr 3, 2021permalink

Get a Nikon Z7 or Z7II instead.

Mar 27, 2021permalink

No director's viewfinder, no weak Anti Aliasing Filter, not small, not light, no webcam, no DNG video, no user friendly interface, no Bauhaus styled body, no excellent SIGMA consumer service, no …
But sometimes Nikon and Sony are really good for photography - and sometimes not - same with SIGMA
;–)

Mar 27, 2021permalink

@41mm

But Sigma themelves said they're targeting still photography with this release.
Maybe you should target your comment towards them?

Mar 27, 2021*permalink

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLNhOtt_uj7Te31nzAsCIQnGV9X_W9I10n

Maybe – in May I will be in AIZU – so long – online

;–)

Mar 27, 2021*permalink

@41mm

Not maybe. Chris mentioned that in the video above. Sigma told DPR that this camera is targeting STILL photographers.

Before asking people to watch random videos, maybe you should watch the video you're commenting on.

Mar 27, 2021permalink

I have met the CEO Kazuto Yamakyat the Photokina in Cologne 2014.

Believe me, I know what I am talking and doning.

Or believe me not

Its up to you

Of course NO RANDOM VIEW but personal view - its up to you

Mar 27, 2021permalink

caver3d

When you leave be sure to close the door behind you.

Mar 27, 2021permalink

@RadPhoto... get the Sony a7R IV or A1 instead, and get a MUCH better camera. Both of them look and feel like a real camera instead of a brick with a bunch of randomly places buttons. They even have a built-in grip, and an integrated EVF, that comes with the camera.

Mar 27, 2021permalink

@snapa

I want real cameras not toys. Maybe your hands are tiny but that’s not the average photographer.

Besides, the a1 is $6500! That’s more than the double the price of the Z7II. I’d get a Nikon, a Canon or a Fuji before getting Sony toys.

Mar 28, 2021permalink

KjellRS

Photokina 2014 is eons ago in photography terms.... the first generation a7 was released less than a year ago and just a thorn in CaNikon's side. Maybe Sigma had great ideas for 2014... but if they haven't replaced pretty much all of them for 2021 they're still going to flop.

Mar 28, 2021permalink

amweber21

Hard to hold onto? It's almost like they should create a grip or two that attach to the camera that let you decide how to accommodate your desired setup.

Mar 27, 2021permalink

Daft Punk

Great landscape cam for back packing. This cam, small tripod and the 20-60mm Panny. Sorted.

Mar 27, 2021permalink

Halftrack

It still needs a mechanical shutter. Electronic-only is too limiting, even for landscapes. Sometimes there is wind moving your foreground elements around, you know?

Mar 27, 2021permalink

drummercam

"Sigma says it's aimed to make a user-oriented camera that's designed to be flexible, adaptable and fun to use"

Wow. Sigma is picking up on the Pentax K-3III marketing angle. And it looks absolutely horrible in-hand. Some fun that is!

Mar 27, 2021permalink

(unknown member)

For stills shooting, if your using FF and lenses over 100mm, for me a large grip is essential. Chris mentioned how the VF pulls down on the camera and torques his wrist. It’s the same with most FF lenses.
So I would not like using this one. And not any smaller gripped FF camera for that matter. Sorry Sigma

Mar 27, 2021*permalink

Richard Butler

You could always add the hand grip (HG-11) accessory. Or the HG-21 large hand grip.

It's a modular camera. You can add a hand grip to suit your needs, but people who want to mount it on a gimbal or in a rig don't have to.

Mar 27, 2021permalink

(unknown member)

It does deserve kudos fo the modular design.

Mar 27, 2021permalink

blåland

It is appealing in almost every way except the missing mechanical shutter. For the reason of getting undistorted bokeh.

Mar 27, 2021permalink

Oh that's not a problem
MS-Bokeh fine
ES-Bokeh fine
EFCS-Bokeh might suffer

So while being ES only is a serious limitation in terms of light and movement. Bokeh won't be limited

Mar 27, 2021permalink

Panther is right. This is a common misconception. Fully electronic shutter does not suffer from abnormal bokeh.

Only the combination of electronic first curtain and mechanical second curtain suffers from this phenomena. And then only at fast shutter speeds.

Mar 27, 2021permalink

blåland

Oh then that design choice doesn't seem so bad.

Mar 27, 2021permalink

@blåland
Well if you find out that most indoor lighting will cause banding with this camera you will change your mind

Mar 27, 2021permalink

blåland

That and rolling shutter.

Mar 27, 2021permalink

Its only fine if its a global shutter or a sensor as fast as the A1, if not you're out of luck.

Mar 29, 2021permalink

SIGMA, the philosophy of AIZU, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fdF3RG0DDYw is about handmade and crafted by passion and not for the New York Stock Exchange. It is private, family based and the products are not for the mass market. There are a lot of companies who have to grow and grow and grow. SIGMA is different. Think differently. Let the company alone – they know what they are doing - for sure. Thanks to the CEO Mister Kazuto Yamaki. And for the rest, there are SONY, CANON, NIKON, and so on. That is fine for ALL.

Take it or leave it. Thats the way for luckiness.

And the SONY A7IV has no Director's viewfinder mode. Just ONE example.

Take care, stay safe and have fun

…

Post Scriptum https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MkXGjp8uxAM

Mar 27, 2021*permalink

"they know what they are doing"

You sure about that

Mar 27, 2021permalink

As far as I know that they love photography, realy.
This guys are in passion for its job.
But as everybody, they are human beings and therefore …

Have a look – not for three seconds: https://www.youtube.com/user/sigmaglobalvision

…

Mar 27, 2021permalink

What does that even mean? Sure they are human beings. That doesn't make me buy their cameras if they aren't good

Mar 27, 2021permalink

DMillier

I get you are a fan and you like all that business philosophy stuff but at the end of the day, it's a camera in a competitive market and it clearly has a bunch of inconveniences and irritations that some other cameras don't. It will live or die by its practicality, not its philosophical underpinnings. I can see it could be a reasonably effective camera and it has a good sensor, but other models just seem to come without all the caveats and inconveniences. Sorry, I think it is yet another Sigma mis-step. The SD10 was good, though.

Mar 27, 2021permalink

I think the market for this Sigma is largely as an industrial camera, where the form factor and lack of mechanical shutter are much more normal and 60MP would really stand out. For example, it's really easy to imagine this on a microscope, telescope, etc. So, competitors aren't really Sony so much as Basler, where having a 60MP FF sensor really gives a distinct advantage.

Mar 27, 2021permalink

My experience is the optics for such microscopes don’t support such a large sensor area. The basler sensors are typically much smaller as the optics required to support such a large sensor would be ridiculously expensive.

It’s been a while since I worked in that space but the 1” sensor was much more practical back then.

Mar 27, 2021permalink

MikeRan: Certainly true that most adapters now expect a much smaller sensor, but there always were adapters intended to be used with 135 film bodies, and those should work fine with this. I also work with some physics professors who have used cameras in various experiments, and FF is usually what they want.

Mar 27, 2021permalink

Shadowfox3141

I don't know mate. Almost all microscope I used are with b&w sensors, and cannot cover a full frame.

Mar 27, 2021permalink

@ProfHankD: > “adapters intended to be used with 135 film bodies,”

I suspect that in kind of 99% of cases, the performance of such optical systems would be saturated with about 10–15 MPix sensors.

My impression is that to get much more, one more or less MUST go aspherical — and nowadays, are there many COMMON scientific instruments using asphericals?

Mar 28, 2021*permalink

ilza: It certainly doesn't take aspherical elements to resolve more than 15MP... but I agree that MUCH MORE THAN 99% of scientific/industrial use cases don't need anything like FF 60MP. The catch is, that fraction of 1% is still a significant market. I don't think Sigma is going to get a big market share selling this to photographers. In fact, I'd bet that they'll sell more for scientific/industrial use... and that's my point.

Mar 28, 2021permalink

If this is going to be used for scientific purposes they better have a really good API to set things like frame rate, bit depth and trigger captures, etc..

Mar 28, 2021permalink

Easy Setting of ROI for video may be more important than these…

BTW, I wonder if one can change the width of ROI on these cameras. (This would not improve the frame rate — but may improve the heat generation…)

Mar 28, 2021permalink

@ProfHankD: > “It certainly doesn't take aspherical elements to resolve more than 15MP...”

I was not clear. Let me restate it: what would be the contemporary setups where non-aspherical optic would have enough resolution × field-of-view to need more than 15MPix?

Mar 29, 2021*permalink

ilza: ROIs are nice, but if they don't help framerate, it's often better to filter later. Most ROI systems only support 1 ROI at a time anyway, and I've usually wanted multiple ROIs with intelligent logic (e.g., face recognition) for selecting the ROI areas. I've programmed some cameras to do that, e.g., Canon PowerShots under CHDK, but typical industrial camera ROI support doesn't help with that.

I have literally a couple hundred "old" non-aspherical lenses sitting behind me right now that can easily surpass 15MP FF at their best aperture. As for "contemporary" set ups, they use asphericals now when they must. Actually, the most recent I was involved with is a physics instrument that uses two modern lenses together -- a Nikor Z 58mm f/0.95 is used as an optical relay lens.

Mar 29, 2021permalink

> “I have literally a couple hundred "old" non-aspherical lenses sitting behind me right now that can easily surpass 15MP FF at their best aperture.”

Sure — but these are for “photographic” subjects, right? “Easy fruits”! ;–)

What I thought about were “scientific subjects” — whatever this means. (Like telescopes, crystallographic microscopes etc.) I suspect there must be some “subjects” which are as easy to photo as human-scaled subjects — but I cannot immediately recall them. Whatever comes to my mind is either very blurry, or very small-framed. :–(

Mar 29, 2021permalink

Most industrial use sensors are smaller than full frame, smaller than APSCs. Outside of photography, full frame sensors are actually uncommon and impractical because adding more light is never an issue for industrial use.

Mar 29, 2021permalink

Djehuty: More light is easy enough in some controlled environments, not all. However, 60MP is higher resolution than one can normally get, and that would be the primary draw. It really depends on how good the sensor is. Most of the high-end scientific/industrial uses I've played with would love the resolution -- e.g., structured light 3D digitizers one of my fellow faculty did for Toyota. The catch is, about half the physics ones are use to having cooled sensors, and I don't know how well this will work without cooling or if it can be actively cooled. In any case, I think everyone agrees that there really isn't an obvious big market for the FP L, just some potential in obscure use scenarios.

Mar 29, 2021permalink

biggercountry

I am of the opinion that a dedicated switch for EVF and LCD screen is a good thing. I have yet to use a camera with an automatic switch system that works in a predictable way, which is an annoyance for me. A simple two-way switch would be right up my alley.

Mar 27, 2021permalink

photo_rb

I think automatic switching plus a manual switch would be ideal so you wouldn't have to access the menus or program a function to get the best of both. For me, automatic switching works fine most of the time but there are situations where I'd like to confine it to one or the other.

Mar 27, 2021permalink

biggercountry

On my Z6, there's a push button on the viewfinder that switches between two different switching modes plus the two manual modes. It's unnecessarily complicated for me. Especially since I can't see at a glance which mode it's in.

Mar 27, 2021permalink

Samuel Dilworth

Completely agree, biggercountry. Any switch should have only two states: viewfinder or rear display.

My Panasonic GH5S has a button (useful), but it switches between viewfinder, rear display, and auto. Argh! You never know which state it’s in until you’ve cycled through them all about three times … prompted by the stupid eye sensor turning off the rear display when you’re looking at it.

This kind of design problem is replicated across so many functions and so many cameras. None of the big Japanese companies seem able to think critically about the nature of these problems in real-world use. They always think adding one more option is an improvement. Only Leica, Sigma, and Ricoh show signs of thinking.

Mar 28, 2021*permalink

cosmicnode

Add switches for one feature, why not add switches for other features, lets have a bigger body. 👍

Mar 30, 2021permalink

Malling

Perhaps Sigma should just stick at what they are good at, like making quality lenses at competitive prices...

They have never been truly good at making camera bodies and they still make odd choices, this seem to be another Sigma bust.

Mar 27, 2021permalink

NexUser

The price with EVF is equal to A7R IV's discounted price. I know which I'd choose.
But then this Sigma seems to be a better choice for video.

Mar 27, 2021permalink

jpeghorror

When the first rumors reported a diagonal sensor array with super color reproduction, I was very interested. Now, I'm just going to have Chipotle burrito instead.

Mar 27, 2021permalink

I have a solution if you want a diagonal sensor, ...

tilt your camera

Mar 27, 2021permalink

jpeghorror

I tried your suggestion but wound up with a tilted horizon and the same color as when I held the camera straight. I guess your technique only works for pedants.

Mar 27, 2021permalink

@jpeghorror: > “the same color as when I held the camera straight”

You PINNED DOWN the problem with diagonal sensor arrays: they have no advantages over the non-diagonal ones!

In SOME situations they may perform a tiny bit better. In other situations they would perform a tiny bit worse. No “inherent advantages”.

Mar 28, 2021permalink

@jpeghorror
A diagonal sensor makes no difference in color whatsoever. They might be a tiny tradeoff in detail for horizontal/ vertical details vs tilted details due to the debayer process. But otherwise, they are identical. That's why the hype around a tilted sensor never made sense

Mar 28, 2021*permalink

Diagonal arranged pixels probably helps with moire but that isn't an issue if you view the resolution with the appropriate medium.

Mar 29, 2021permalink

99tollap

As someone who mostly shoots landscapes, this is pretty much the last camera I would want to buy.

Mar 27, 2021permalink

I agree.

Mar 27, 2021permalink

photo_rb

I keep saying that with every camera I buy but they keep coming out with new features so the next camera I buy is always the last one. :)

Mar 27, 2021permalink

zakaria

Another sigma loser.Sometimes the simplicity is more complex and less functional.

Mar 27, 2021permalink

Kondamin

This is a great camera to showcase manufacturers what not to do.

Mar 27, 2021permalink

Horshack

This first-impression review was posted 5 days too early.

Mar 27, 2021permalink