Chris and Jordan received a lot of feedback after their preview of the Canon EOS R3 (most of it good), and in this episode they answer some of the questions that came up in the YouTube comments. Watch the video to see if they answered one of yours.
One question: did you test or could you test the HDR-PQ 3-shot composition, where the camera takes 3 images and then stitches it all together in something like 0.02 sec.
This seems like a trick straight out of computational photographer on a smartphone!
Does this feature work well and does it offer any value to the end user?
I had the EOS 3, and EOS 5, still have the latter one, but it's very bulky and plasticky, so i am not using it anymore, it's a Dust collector.And it needed Calibration, to work with the eye control.
Nowadays, i am much more happy with other SLRs, with and especially without AF, which are smaller & more handy than the bulk of the EOS 5, to bring it with me.
OVF Simulation from the EOS R3 sounds interesting, perhaps a feature, Canon should build into all future, upcoming EOS R-Series Bodies into.
How about dynamic range and image quality? In the past, sports cameras like the D5 and the 1D series have always sacrificed dynamic range for speed. Is it going to be the same in the mirrorless world or is it different?
D5/6 didn't sacrifice DR for speed but for having the best low light iso performance out there. A thing much more important is sports shooting than a couple of DR stops. As for 1d series, since 1dxm2 their DR is top notch.
If the hit rate at 30fps with f1.2 when something is running towards the camera is that good, we are clearly talking about the -by far- best AF system at the moment.
Are you living under a rock? Sony use stacked sensor technology since 2017, and R3 is lagging behind by far from A1, what was released in January. You are welcome
@Anulu..A1 has faster sensor scan on paper but in real life it seems this doesn't translate as superior. The difference in use is negligible as the extensive tests show. A1 has the 50mp sensor as trump up its sleeve. That's all. Canon have almost caught up Sony in sensor technology. Which is a good thing for competition. There is more than the spec sheet when using specialist tools like the A1 and the R3.
Ah, actually no. Keep spreading more myths. Folks keep behaving as if IQ, AF, etc of one brand are light years ahead of other brands when clearly that's not the case.
In fact, one could argue that it's more about trickery at times , than anything else. Clearly the, R3 is ahead of the a9 series. The R3 was designed for an different type of user mostly as opposed to the A1. Just as with as opposed to the R5.
I thank Sony for waking Canon up. They did a "Pearl Harbor" on Canon. The rest as they say is history.
Battle is far from won as of today. This is the same Sony that dropped the ball for Samsung to dominate consumer electronics. But it's the same Sony that held its ground against the assault of Xbox from one of the most powerful companies in the world. And while I'll never use Sony for its horrible horrible ergonomics, Canon cannot afford to play like it's now leading the FF mirrorless market. As they said, practice like you never won, fight like you never lost. Is it good that Canon is able to come up with the R3 in a few years from the 5DMIV? Yes. Is that enough to edge Sony out significantly, no.
You should test the new 3-shot composite HDR mode that can shoot 3 shots for compositing in as fast as 0.02 seconds. That should be useful even for handheld portraits. Imagine the sun behind the subject and the subject all visible in the final image without any need for post processing or fill flash.
Canon dropped the ball with no high resolution mode. I can see that feature isn’t for the target audience, but still it would have been nice. The camera could shoot 8 frames in about .3 seconds and combine them in camera for a higher resolution image. But it does not. Too bad.
I have been doing that with my a9 since 2017. For landscape and architecture, it is very useful and has a very high success rate even hand held. For portrait, it is not very easy to blend the images and make the end result look natural.
Fuji has also had in-camera stacked HDR Raw for a couple of years; although, a fast stacked sensor would help eliminate some motion artifacts so I'm looking forward to Fuji's 2022 cameras.
There are a lot of positive early reviews. Look forward to the full review. Even though you need to make sure you calibrate it, this eye control seems like the real deal. Everyone seems to love it.
The calibration is simply another word for training of the machine learning software. Machine learning, well, needs to learn.
With features like the human/bird/animal/vehicle AF, the training is done by the manufacturer, in this case Canon.
Features that involve the camera recognizing the user need to be trained by the individual user. It reminds me somewhat of setting up FaceID on my iPhone.
What modern cameras really need is also a personal assistant like "OK Google" , Siri etc.. where you can ask an immediate change of setting as you shoot , for example you are out shooting and suddenly the light changes 3 stops off your settings but you need to shoot right away and keep your eye on the subject ,you could say "OK Sony iso 8000" and it's instantly changed to 8000 without stopping,take time to fiddle with the settings and lose the shot .have some cameras done something similar already?
More like saying "ok Sony ISo 3200" Alright deleting all files. First train Autofocus, then train voice control and have voice distinctions. Imagine out shooting and someone walks by and says "ok Sony delete all files" System would need to know its not you.
imagine the noise in groups of photographers (sports, journalists, photo-trips, etc) all shouting commands at their cameras :D ... or in the silence of the church whey the bride is preparing to say yes, the photographer calmly "ok sony, burst mode high!"
This reminds me of when FaceID debuted on the iPhone. It worked great and I and many others fell in love with the feature. It was a stunning achievement to put that capability in a consumer product.
But Apple continued to improve the software, and then over the years the hardware, to where it's now virtually flawless.
And of course with FaceID you have to train it for your face, and the more you do the better it works. And if you try to unlock the iPhone with your FaceID, and it doesn't work, but then you enter the unlock code, it then scans your face again to improve its learning. It's a very sophisticated feature.
This depends on scanning your eyes and training the system as well. Machine learning is like any other type of learning by humans or animals: it gets smarter the more it is trained with more input data.
We see machine learning becoming more and more a part of our technology and our lives, right before our eyes (pun intended :)
When is the AD-E1 actually needed? Is it only to provide dust and water resistance to flashes that have it or can't they be used at all without the adapter?
Looking at the bottom of a 270EX and a 600EX-RT I'm wondering what is it in the waterproof flashes that could damage the shoe. I can't imagine the rubber seal doing that, but I can see other differences, notably the contact pins in the 600EX move when the locking pin is engaged. Perhaps that's it. It is strange (and annoying) nonetheless.
It seems like this camera is actually geared to the professional sports photographer...maybe a news or wedding photographer at a stretch...and that is about it. This is certainly not a camera that you want to walk around with.
Yes, R5 is very much an allround camera. R3 is very much a specialized tool for sports/action. Shouldn't come as a surprise actually. Everything (Canon including) has signalled that from the beginning.
Turkey is nice this time of year; and accepting visitors--if you can get a camera by then. Just ask Canon for one, or two. Maybe they'll even pay for the trip in exchange for your "Sponsored" review. Bon Voyage!
Listening to this pre-review, I think Canon has pulled even with the A9 but at what a price. I got my A9 for $2000 on the used market since it is a 4 year old camera, the new R3 is $6000. Telephotos designed for the R mount are ridiculously slow F11 unless you go to repurposed slr lenses. With Canon's resources, I am sure R&D will continue.
Are you serious? The R3 can do 30fps 14-bit lossless raw. The A9II can only do 20fps 12-bit lossy. The R3 has so many more specs over the A9II I'm not sure there's even one in the A9IIs favour.
Canon clearly have the best medium resolution pro camera now.
f/11 primes with a severely reduced focus area, even on the r3, but fwiw they fit in a supertelephoto price segment that sony hasn't addressed.
nikon saw the light with the 600mm supertelephoto zoom that they put on their lens roadmap, i like where they are headed with milc.
congrats on the used a9, it's a major sweet spot in the market that won't be matched for years... the r3 is way too bulky for me, the battery life isn't nearly as good as the a9, the r3 grip won't take a second battery, e-mount lens selection is much better, etc.
if you own an a9, i don't see anything that would justify a platform switch to another brand... maybe with the upcoming z9, and pf lenses?
I wonder how long eye-AF takes to develop, if it's a bit of a horse or whether Nikon can swish it up for its Z9. The question is probably whether it was swished up a couple of years back. It's not a catch-all though as noted and "getting the eye right in the center of the vf" yes it will be interesting to hear more glasses-wearers chime in. I can't see the whole of most vfs and I'm fairly sure I'm not the only glasses-wearer who is forced to use glasses with their camera.
@steelhead3 Did you actually watch the video (and others on the topic) WITHOUT your special Sony disciple glasses on? If you did you would notice how much the reviewers are liking the camera and commenting on how it moves the industry on. Nothing wrong with your used A9 - but let’s go with the independent reviewers eh - rather than someone with a pretty extensive historical bias…..
Well that would all depend on case usage. Therefore, many times it wouldn't be that hard at all. Also, it's an huge difference between the R3 and the a9/a9ii. Early results an specs clearly show that.
Folks were expecting much more difference between the R5 an A1, thus so many comparisons. The R5 is more than holding it's own.
End of the day, if you don't know what you want, you air it out here. Clearly the R3 is a step up from the A9ii including price but they will all do well in their niche.
The similarities of R3 with A9 start and end at the 24mp stacked sensor. In everything else R3 is waaaaaay ahead, making the A9ii seems overpriced at $4,5k. I guess it's time for Sony to release an A9iii the coming months..with video specs for 2021/22 and not 2014/15 like the A9ii has..
@Becksvart, be clear in what you are talking about. Eye AF usually refers to tracking an eye, which most everyone has now. Eye control AF is what only the R3 has right now, where you control which subject the AF tracking acquires with your eye. Also, I don't think Nikon or anyone else will have eye control AF anytime soon. I'm sure they will look at the tech a little, but they will sit back and see how it does in the market. If it really becomes a game changer I'd expect them to try and get around the patents, but it will take a little while.
You can look up how long it took people to get around other Canon patents, Canon Came out with USM in 1987 and in lens image stabilization in 1995. It took a few years for anyone to have similar tech, but those are widely used now.
@steelhead3, As for the R3 vs the A9ii, I don't think the A9ii will match the R3 when it comes to viewfinder experience even if not considering the R3's eye control AF. Most people consider the R3's flip screen better, with higher resolution and better touch functions/menus. I don't think the A9ii will even come close to the R3 in terms of processing speed, buffer, AF tracking, etc. The A9ii doesn't come close to the R3's video. I would expect the image quality to be very similar, but I would think Canon would eek out a little more dynamic range and high ISO because their sensor is a newer design. The People that want a big body will love the R3, the people that want a small body will love the A9ii.
The A9ii is priced much lower than the R3, so that bargain price will help Sony's market share and will sell them some extra cameras. I think Canon is confident in the R3 and will enjoy the extra profit/ROI (return on investment) and it will help with demand during the parts shortage.
@steelhead3, Canon is able to sell their gear at premium prices for a reason.
Canon will sell every R3 they can make, even at $5999.
They are going to use those profits designing and developing new lenses and bodies. This will make them a stronger company in the declining camera market. Their RF system will grow and become stronger.
As sensor performance stabilizes (with no major improvements) it is the value added features like EVF eye control, ergonomics, etc that will move the needle on sales and differentiate cameras.
@Matt_007 excellent points on the FPS. It drives me crazy how Sony gets away with saying things like the A1 does 50 megapixels at 30fps. Well, sure if you compress the files into a lossy format. Otherwise, it's only 20 fps.
And the A1 only gets 30 fps with certain lenses. Apparently this R3 will get 30 fps with more lenses since it includes not only the RF lenses but pretty much all of the recent generation of EF lenses.
And Sony users brag about their third party lens options, but those will only get up to 15 fps on the A1.
In reality the R3 and A1 are both excellent and no one would be disappointed with either. But let's face reality: the A1 is being bought almost exclusively by existing Sony users, and this R3 will probably almost exclusively get bought by existing Canon users.
So this silly comparison game for the most part doesn't matter.
I don't think these bodies are sold exclusive to pros, in fact I doubt they'd be profitable if that was the case. It's more than I'm willing to spend on a body personally, but I might've said the same just a few years ago of the $3K I later spent on an A7R so...
This has long been a pet peeve of mine, photography enthusiasts are so concerned with other's wallet, I don't see that to the same degree in other hobbies tbh (PC building, high end audio, etc.).
" If budget is no problem, it is easy to justify A1 over A9ii. But hard to justify R3 over R5. "
Ehh, I've seen people have a preference for an A9 over an A7R regardless of price, that fast readout / silent shutter is pretty killer for certain use cases.
Thx for confirming that it works with basically any studio strobes. Sometimes Canon reminds me of Apple, while they might not always be the first to bring a tech to the market, their first implementation is often pretty much stellar. I worked about 2years with the A9 and its incredible how Sony gave us stacked tech 4 years ago, but only with the A1 about 3 years later were we able to sync eshutter with flashes and offer flicker reduction in electronic mode as well. Not a bash against Sony, just that to me Canon got it right the first time.
But then again, Sony can only electronically sync TTL strobes wich is a wierd limitation,
@PNad - "...but only with the A1 about 3 years later were we able to sync eshutter with flashes and offer flicker reduction in electronic mode as well."
that is incorrect, the a9ii had electronic shutter flicker reduction over a year and a half ago, using a wide range of shutter speed tweaking: https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1642924
i don't recall seeing electronic shutter flicker reduction on the r5?
as far as canon "got it right the first time", i'll disagree by pointing out things like the eos-r dive bar, r5 overheating, r5 fps rate dropping by half when the battery is partially discharged, etc... this r3 is an exciting release for canon, with features like eye control af that will push the industry forward, it's a step up from the r5 in a number of ways.
Well, sure... I mean it is right as in "not wrong" but it is nothing to be amazed either. Reading at 1/180" 24MPx, wile Sony offers around the same budget a 50MPx sensor that reads much faster (1/260") is not that "super impressive".
On the other hand, i must agree that they really got the R3 right, as a whole package. So yes, i agree with the apple analogy...
@Badi it took them 3 iterations to do full 14 bit readout and electronic shutter flash, and even then theres still some caveats: 30fps is with lossy compression, wich in the end is 12-13bit ish, this was confirmed and you can only sync TTL flashes.
Canon does lossless compressed full 14bit readout and sync with any flash. Its not just about comparing readout speed.
Again, not bashing Sony, the A1 is still a very unique beast.
@MILC man, eshutter fine tuning is NOT the same feature as flicker reduction. The later is not related with led syncing but rather light pulsing from bulbs/fluorescent etc.
This feature was long been there with mechanical shutter and only introduced with electronically with the A1.
Another thing Canon did right, not only theres fine tuning available, but the camera can also automatically detect at what frequency the led is syncing and automatically finds the right fine tuned shutter speed in a second instead of fidling around trying to match it.
Agree, as I said - overall, from a lot of points, canon did a really fine job with R3 (actually I consider with the R5 too - if I had the cash for throwing that much in only one of my hobbies, the R5 will be my choice). A lot of nuances and ease of use, like the ones you mentioned prove that.
But I was mentioning just the sensor thing alone. Specs-wise the sensor, while surely great, is underwhelming. Geeky-peaky speaking, I think at 24MPx it should at least match the speed readout of the A1. Sure Sony is on 3rd iteration, but what matters is the products today on the market.
"it took them 3 iterations to do full 14 bit readout and (...) even then theres still some caveats: 30fps is with lossy compression, wich in the end is 12-13bit ish, this was confirmed and you can only sync TTL flashes."
I have to say that's quite amusing - only 13bit at 30fps with 50mp? Bad Sony! You do know that there is no camera on the market that shoots 13bit at ≈50mp at even 20fps, let alone 30fps. The R5 is 12 bit in ES, and here's what the ES looks like compared to the A1:
It easy to get to your destination when someone else has drawn a map. To date, Canon and Nikon are building on Sony's achievements and releasing cameras years later - they ought to be better.
The R5 sensor is competitive with the A7rIII sensor but still has baked in noise reduction at low ISOs. The R3 sensor should be better than the A9/II sensor in terms of dynamic range - it is already faster in read-out speed - but is also three or four years newer. How will it fare against Sony's new A9 sensor when it comes? If we say that the R3 uses Canon's state of the art technology/sensor, it should be compared to Sony's state of the art and that is the A1. Where is the performative lead now?
Incidentally I don't believe in these top trumps style comparisons, but if you believe half of what the Canon users are writing here, Canon is carrying the world on its shoulders and Sony has never done anything, when in fact it is leading the industry.
Gotta wait for the DR tests, A9 stacked sensors seems to trade speed for DR vs normal bsi 24mp sensors, the A7R4 edges the A1 slightly as well. Well for stills anyway.
@PNad - "...eshutter fine tuning is NOT the same feature as flicker reduction."
?? it reduces flicker, per the links, so how is it "NOT" flicker reduction?
"Last week’s Sony a9 II firmware update came with a couple of really useful features. Not only does it let you close the camera’s shutter when changing lenses, but the new ‘shutter speed fine-tuning’ feature is able to completely eliminate flicker from troublesome light sources."
@PNad - "Another thing Canon did right, not only theres fine tuning available, but the camera can also automatically detect at what frequency the led is syncing and automatically finds the right fine tuned shutter speed in a second instead of fidling around trying to match it."
according to the manual, the r3 can only detect a very narrow range of flicker, which is no different than any other camera:
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