DPReview TV: Chris and Jordan react to the Sony a1

All camera features is a balance between autofocus speed, frame rate, data flow and processing, etc., and battery life. You need power for everything, so battery life is part of the euation when chosing components, from what I read in an article in a serious magazine a few years ago. Probably correct.

Also, the rear screen does not affect image quality, and even lower resolution is very useable for ultra-precise manual focusing.

@ drajitsh: It is not only a monitor, it is also a device for fast file transfer, live streaming, etc. It makes sense - as a professional tool.

@ jay jay02: I have to say thank you for the PM you sendt me, saying: Grumpy old fart ... well, well.

What will be interesting to see is how many photos are in focus compared to the R5.

@Handsome90 I doubt there will be 2500€ worth more 🤣

Jay jay when you get above a certain level it’s almost always diminishing returns, to get there it often results in a noticeable higher price, camera equipment is no different.

For an amateur it might not make much sense to pay for the small differences but for some pro it’s worth the extra costs.

New technology is also always expensive a electronic shutter that dos something we have not seen before is obviously gonna add substantial costs and so dos the new sensors while it might not give a huge benefit yet, you do pay to get it.

@Malling it will be interesting to see how many "pros" are willing to pay this much for a camera that is more Geek orientated than actually pro built.

That’s how pro bodies look in 2021, I doubt we are gonna see the bricks we once associated with pro and particularly pro sport cameras. Especially as the photo industry in many fields have seen (that’s a good thing) more woman enter and in some cases even over taken the majority of photographers, than in the days with the old bricks. With all respect for the big, heavy bricks they where never suited for people with smaller hands and less arm strength, for some people they where nice to hold, but they where heavy and not funny at all to carry along.

"But in real world use it's no better than the R5"
The camera can film in 8k for over 2h30 without overheating. How long is that on the R5? And how long for the camera to recover?

The electronic shutter has better banding control than a mechanical one, so you're better off shooting the A1 in electronic mode than the R5 even in mechanical if you're shooting sports in an artificially lit place.

The camera does 30fps. The case of the static bird prove it. Then he claimed that he couldn't get 30fps in flight but never mentioned what AF mode he was using...

All of that pushing files bigger than the R5 and probably with better DR.

Don't bother with this new "jay jay02"account, opened just for trolling and bashing.

When you get first over the line you obviously the one who innovate, this is the first full pro Mirrorless high res “sports” camera. Nikon and Canon hasn’t even launched one yet. Nikon doesn’t even have something to compete with the A7r iv or A9/A9ii.

@ BackToNature1: We can't have this discussion before N/C are there. And when they are there, Sony is another large step ahead.

@ Magnar W
Well there was also the comment of "bye bye Nikonistas and Canonistas".

It's nonsense to think that Canon nor Nikon Can't compete or even beat at the $6,499 level, so talking being left behind beforehand it's really a mute point.

Besides, we really don't know how far Sony is ahead, especially since we have NOT seen any Real World Independent testing yet. If anything, they have done Canon an favor, with it's R5 being almost 3 Grand less. Yet features most would ever need(99%).

You aren't ahead when your Mirrorless Flagship is almost 3 Grand more than anything the real competitors are presenting for FF in Mirrorless. Anyone comparing pricewise to any DSLR camera, that's pure nonsense.

@ BackToNature1: If C/N are so competitive as you say, why are they not at front now? They have their loyal user base, though.

Also, the R5 does not even reach A9 level on real world performance.

Magnar

I don’t think your ever going to convince the loyal Canon and Nikon base.

They will never accept that Nikon and Canon Mirrorless are playing the catching up game and are not those companies driving the industry forward. The R5 is the most overrated Camera in existence, the fact that some even compare it to A1 or even A9 is without any hold in reality.

Its not hard to make a high spec camera, something entirely different making it work as a whole, especially under heavy pro use. As of now the R5 has to many flaws like the overheating issues.

Once again, spec sheets are very different to real world results 🤣🤣 https://youtu.be/KvGnZTIpOVs

@Malling EVF looks good but the rear screen sucks ! We are looking at 7000€ Here. They shouldn’t cut down on anything.

Jayjay

They “suck” on all cameras simply because battery technology isn’t there yet to accommodate high res power consuming rear screens in combination with a high res EVF.

Sony outperform everyone in battery run time, also because they are using less power draining screens for a pro that is still more important.

You need facts to prove a conspiracy theory. You can't say "there is a teapot orbiting the sun and its up to you to provide facts to disprove it".

And the facts are not in your favor anyway. The highest rated "Sony" sensors on DxO are not on Sony cameras. The best "Sony" ASPC sensors are not found on Sony cameras either. But the truth is if you have a tin-foil hat conspiracy theory, it is up to YOU to prove it, not someone else to disprove it (uses you are a Trump supporter, but then facts mean nothing to you).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russell's_teapot

Look up. 7 own it. 10 had it. At least, 10 people THOUGHT they had it.

some people try to have arguments, while in reality they just babbling around trying to keep there status quo.
adapt or extinct

Total BS statements, btw the touch control is not limited on A1, just like on a7SIII

Canon "isn't" doing the same right now, so we can have the conversation right now... If you are wondering about the future for Canon, do the same for Sony (hint-Canon will forever be playing catch-up).

I do think Sony missed a chance with this new a1 product line to really deliver a more pro type body style, and one that fixed some of the ergonomic issues.

In doing so they've left a big opening for Canon to respond with an R1 that offers the sort of build and controls that pro's value the most. Ditto for Nikon.

And yes, pro's and other serious photographers do value highly the controls of a camera; it's very important that they can operate the camera very efficiently.

The Sony design certainly can work for people, and indeed with any camera it's more a matter of spending enough time to learn it...but still it would have been nice to have Sony release a body that actually signifies the special significance of the new product line.

The alpha 1 is targeted more towards the “wannabes”. The people who think they could be pros and shoot kids soccer games. You’ll see a bunch In these forums.
But the camera has the standard Sony consumer body that’s not thought out very well. Like how some lenses block people with thick fingers from holding the grip.
It’s filled with gimmicks for people who do know any better. Like a high resolution mode that only takes a burst of images like any other camera can, but you have to stack them on a computer manually.

It’s going to sell well because Sony knows there are a lot of wannabes, more than there are real pros. And professional who holds one though is going to know right away it’s more for amateurs and soccer moms.

“The alpha 1 is targeted more towards the “wannabes”. The people who think they could be pros and shoot kids soccer games.”

Lol what?

Nope, this is exactly the body Sony owners signed up for. A cohesive strategy of smaller and lighter bodies. The large and heavy fans can go to everyone else.

Seriously DPR. How many of these spamming trolling accounts should be tolerable? Cant you track these guys by up address or something?

@Zoa
"Stick Canons global shutter in the R5" - Canon isn't able to reach A9(2017) sensor speed))) I would be very surprised if they could make sensor that works with flash in e-shutter mode

if you are in need of R5 there is plenty in stock in Sweden and has been so for quite while

Or get an a6000 over the a6600, it mostly the same camera.

those are crop sensors...and on the a6000 side a bit outdated

@Ric 360

"it's mostly the same camera"

😅Apart from having a different sensor, A faster processor, A bigger battery, IBIS, Eye AF, Real time tracking, More AF points, A higher ISO range, higher AF sensitivity range, A higher res EVF, log profiles, time-lapse, a touch screen, digital audio input, more custom buttons, mic input, mag alloy body etc..

It's hard to imagine two more different cameras. The only thing they have in common is the sensor format.

Well, that “primitive” sensor works amazingly well (or so even DPR says).. of course, denying reality is a contemporary hobby. Keep it up!😉

Well, if you spend an extra $2500 to build a camera this is what you get. A darned fine camera. They still feel short in a few things like IBIS, video specs, and some say ergonomics, but its a good camera no doubt.

DxO and P2P ranked the R5 sensor above the A9ii sensor, but the A1 is different. We have to wait and see.

I wouldn’t call 4x the flash sync (read speed may be lower but no slouch either) speed “evolution”. R5’s spec look wonderful until you realize its flash sync I.e. read out time is the same pathetic 1/60s as any other 20+mp options out there.

Sony must be pulling their hair out because it seems that almost every discussion of the A1 ends up including the Canon R5. Never a good thing when taking about your product also brings up the competition that is about 40% less expensive.

The Sony is a great model and so is the Canon. But it is one big compliment to Canon that the R5 is mentioned in the same conversation. And don't think that neither Canon nor Sony doesn't notice.

But the key is that most people stick with their brand. So the a1 will primarily be sold to existing Sony users, and to them the higher price won't matter because they won't want to incur the higher cost and hassle of switching.

The R5 is important to Canon because it is the model that is inducing a lot of their higher end DSLR customers to switch to their mirrorless platform. It too is priced right to attract those users, many of whom bought 5D series DSLRs in the past.

The key is that these companies primarily sell to their existing customers.

To continue my point from above: in order to understand any camera release from Sony/Canon/Nikon these days, you have to look at it in the context of selling to their existing customers.

It's not really accurate to treat it as if any one brand will induce a lot of people switching. It's not like with every new release the entire camera market is up for grabs.

So analyze the a1 in terms of how it makes sense to existing Sony users given their current lineup. That's the way to best understand it.

On the contrary, there are many switching brands when going mirrorless. Sony has been growing FF customer base immensly FF and Fuji on MF. Consequently a few camera companies will disappear, this has already started and ongoing over comming years

The vast majority of people will stay with their existing system, because:

1) They have several high quality and very expensive native lenses, and don't want to use adaptors, as they can lead to lower AF performance.

2) They are also likely to have ancillary equipment such as dedicated flashes that are incompatible with another system.

3) Their muscle memory is adapted to their existing gear, and they don't want to miss out on shots due to unfamiliarity with a new control layout.

4) They know that whatever brand they use, within 6 months it will have a body that matches or possible beats the specs and performance of the current leader.

5) They simply like using their existing brand.

6) They feel some degree of brand-loyalty, and don't want to admit that another brand has something better, so they'd rather just wait a few months while their own brand plays catch up.

... and that's just a few of the reasons.

Great fincial result from Sony published today. Seems more and more moving to Sony FF from other brands

They sold about the same amount of cameras and with improved product mix. Not bad considering the other camera companies sales going down so much. Must be a lot of movement from CaNikon FF to Sony FF behind those figures as Sony FF users already had ML cameras.

Bank shot
Thats how im working with my dslr, what am i missing?

No DSLR on the planet works like that.

With RTT, you can put the focus point on the chest of a person in the group, and it will automatically switch first to facial recognition on that person, and then to eyeaf if the face is large enough in the frame.

If you want to select someone else in the group, just let off the af button, put the focus box on the new target, and do it again. The camera never jumps off to someone else, and since it's always re-focusing, the focus plane is accurate despite shot re-framing.

I think that Canon MILC has something roughly similar, but it can't be done with any OVF camera.

Its called 3d tracking in my dslr and works fine.

Has nothing to do with ovf.

3d tracking from nikon?? Oh no. It doesnt do that. Youre not getting it

misspiggy - 3D tracking on D850 works very well, and surprisingly is better than the AF tracking of Nikon's own Z series MILCs.

But it's no match for the tracking on an R5, R6, a9ii or this new a1 and if you think it is, you're kidding yourself.

Nikon will of course catch up and become as good at bird-eye AF etc as the Canon and Sony models, but they are still some way off.

I think that's what the A7c is for! Everything about that screams perfect second body for more casual events, to me.

Yes the lower level cameras such as R5 and A7iii has been taking turns on nr1 sales potision last 6 months. Prior to that A7iii held for 2.5 years strait, so it is getting a bit on the older side. Sometimes the A7siii has been nr1 as well lately, which is stunning for such a niche oriented camera.
Its pretty cool though that a flagship camera such as A1, with its price level, goes to nr1 sales postion.
Given that Canon DSLR owners are such a large group and that Canon has done its best to provide a competitve ML camera for those DSLR owners, they dont sell better than Sony despite that Sony has already saturated its user base with ML cameras. Go figure!

Agree the A7iii was the #1 FF mirrorless forever. Though usually there were APSC cameras above it.
I've never seen the A7Siii in the top 3, but it is doing very well obviously. There was time when the "used/renewed" R5 for $4199 was in the top 5. It blew me away so many were willing to pay that much for an R5 when it keeps coming back in stock.
And that R6 can't be overlooked. Its $2500 and usually in the top 3 mirrorless FF.

To be honest though, I don't think Amazon sells as many camera as people think. And I think their ranking is more for entertainment.

"Screen is too low to check focus" that's what a 9 million dot viewfinder with 0.9 magnification is for when you really need it

Are you talking about an LCD with 5G for file transfer and live streaming, etc.?

Professional tools are not cheap, but professional photographers are buying them to do a job and make profit. Or are you completely lost when it comes to what professional photography is about?

Take a smartphone, add the word "professional" and you can raise the price really high. Is that what you mean?

Add 8K and charge any nonesense price. That worked too for canon.

Are you talking about the camera that's been sold out for 7 months? It sure as heck did work.

"Are you talking about the camera that's been sold out for 7 months? I"

Yaa canon is too embarrassed to make them in good numbers. The same one.

Ps
" On a unit level, Canon sold 2.76 million digital interchangeable lens cameras. This is higher than the 2.7 million unit sales it last projected but is still 34% decrease YoY. "

Working well for canon :-D

Ric, we're not talking about iPhones here.

I honestly do not know of any "professionals" that desire a large and heavy body just for the sake of it. "Professional" for the majority means a body with pleasing ergonomics, decent battery life, weather sealing, and resilience.

Having never seen an Alpha 1, I cannot comment on if it ticks all those boxes but the early reviews claim it does. Honestly, I would never want to go back to a gigantic Canon or Nikon DSLR. Those days are long gone.

He’s the same canon troll that registers a new account every month to post under a different username.

You realize there will be a vertical grip for the Alpha 1, right?

Having the vertical grip as an option is the right way to go. It makes a camera so much more flexible.

@LowPassFilter I would counter that until very recently the only viable options for super-tele sports shooters were massive cameras with integrated vertical grips. I do believe that times are changing.

Are you talking about the 7D mark Ii bodies that I see on the sidelines of every NFL game??

They are not as big as you say, lol!

Zoa, you have to be joking about the lens release button, right? Not only is it a rather heavily-spring button, compared to the controls, you also have to rotate the body and camera relative to each other. It's also really not that close to where your fingers rest, even on a smaller body like the a6500. You'd have to have bratwurst fingers with absolutely no feeling in them at all to accidentally push it.

But will that be enough for them to not sell the image division to someone else? That remains to be seen.

The A1 is a niche product, it's current price point makes it even more niche. I don't think Nikon will be loosing any sleep over it.

this "A1" niche product is the nr1 Mirrorless best seller on Amazon today. Maybe there's more than a few persons who wants the highest performance in a compact format.

@themountainphotographer
"The A1 is a niche product"
Well isn't the future products focus more on niche over what most consumers can afford. That appears to be the issue for companies with apparently limited development resources. Then there is the issue of the forthcoming Sony a7iv. I believe Nikon is losing more than just sleep over their competitors. I really hope they come out swinging. But again, do they have the will and or resources?

The problem for Nikon is that with the speed of innovation that other companies are actually executing - and shipping with, even long-time Nikon users have to seriously think about buying that next Z lens. I have shot Nikon for over 30 years yet I'm on the fence about adding the Z 70-200 2.8. To invest another $2500 in Nikon at this particular moment gives me pause when a lens like that still isn't widely available. - and the pace of their improvements in bodies has essentially ground to a halt.

I have watched local camera stores go from being Nikon/Canon shops with special orders for everything else to Sony/Canon/Fuji shops over the last decade. You could not walk into any store in my city and buy a Z7ii off the shelf. I will be the first to admit that anecdotes are not evidence, but it is just another data point reinforcing the trends we are seeing in posted sales numbers.

evaeva0705 suggested that Nikon could compete by lowering prices and being the budget brand, but given what we have heard of Nikon financials, I honestly doubt that they can afford to do that.

The eyes are sharp and in focus, the beak also in focus and appears sharp because it's in the same DOF as the eye.

Please study more about DOF before spouting nonsense in here.

"The moment we have an Global Shutter for their next Flagship, then we would have left the mechanical shutter behind us. Until then, I will have my doubts. "

At 1/240th readout speed and 1/200th sync speed we are just ever so lightly behind the current mechanical shutters. (And that is 2x the pixels and 1.5x the readout speed of the A9). So with another 3x speed increase you can leave out the mechanical shutter easily without having a global shutter. {At the moment those are still very limited in IQ}

At 1/300th you can leave out the mechanical shutter. Sony is very close. Just not quite there yet.

@MikeRan
At least in a sports body. This sync speed / scan time has been very common amongst mechanical shutters and never caused problems.

All Fuji GFX cameras sync at just 1/125th
Cameras like the 6D II have a sync speed of 1/180th
The D750 and 5D III sync at 1/200th

So if Sony used the same sensor in a compact body or a body designed for a different target market it would be more than fine already to leave out the mechanical shutter. Just not if you want your camera to be D6/1DX III competition

We are still in the era of electronic shutters having compromises and being slightly inferior to a mechanical shutter.
But an electronic shutter is quieter and allows faster FPS, so there are trade offs each way.
If you don’t need the speed or to be perfectly silent the mechanical shutter is still better.

@Zoa
Which downsides are you talking about?

Panther, Agree 100%

I prefer OVFs and not for nostalgic reasons either. Some do.

Preference for an OVF is going to become limiting in the very near future. Sure the existing cameras will continue to function but the technological improvements won’t be realized on bodies with OVFs.

At some point the preference for OVF will be outweighed by the performance benefits of cameras with EVFs. For most people that time has already come and gone. But obviously not everyone.

Certainly a huge, high resolution EVF that refreshes ridiculously fast brings us a lot closer to that point. (Or even further past it.)

I had a Sony SLT camera too but it used the translucent mirror only for AF. (I think. It’s been a while)

Anyway hard to imagine wanting a dark viewfinder due to the translucent mirror. I think in the end the compromises just won’t make sense. Can it be done? Probably... will it? Doubtful.

If you want to see those things take your eye away from the viewfinder.

I see the viewfinder or EVF as a tool to see what the camera is going to capture. I get a better sense of what my captured image is by looking through a good EVF

If I want to see all the natural colors and dynamic range, I put the camera down and enjoy the scene. But that’s just me. The camera is just a tool for me.

For as much as you seem to love the R5 I’m surprised you’re suddenly going all OVF here. Seems you want to argue just to argue. Perhaps we have exchanged arguments before under one of your other UserIDs.

@ Zoa: Sure, Canon is not up to date with the electronic shutter for their high end cameras. They have along way to go if they want to get rid of all the distorted fast moving objects when shooting fast bursts. The also struggle with viewfinder blackout.

@ Zoa: Factual description is not bashing.

Btw: How would you characterize your comment about Sony here: Facts or bashing?

I think you've never used another system. I'm a Sony a7r3 shooter and I can tell you that the Ibis is very poor in comparison for still photography.

Sorry to hear your A7r3 is not working for you. It is a 2017 camera and Ibis from that time.
I have been shooting Sony since gen2 ML cameras. Currently shoot the A7r4 and A9ii and they work great.

Drinking less coffee helps!

Yap. I’m 100% with you. Specially if you’re shooting in studio tethered, the fully articulated screen to the side just doesn’t work. Right now, Fuji has the best option for photography.

Sony offers both and that is great.
Get an A7S III if you are into video
Get an A1 if you like the tilt screen

@PAntunes
Yes their X-T3 hinge was best, but with the X-T4 they went for an articulated screen

Sadly Fuji is migrating to the fully articulated screen too. Glad my XT3 still was made for photographers in mind and no hybrid shooters.

I wish everyone would just use the X-T3/S1H solution. Flipping out the LCD for every single high and low shot would be a pain, but tilt-only is vexing in portrait orientation.

If patents are an issue, Sony also already had a hybrid-tilt screen on their A99II.

DPR stuff ain't photographers, none of them even have portfilio. They shooting videos, blogs and don't know how things are working in the real photography world. Fully articulating screen is AWFUL for professional photography. It's should never be used on professional photo cameras. Most prominent example is - when you shooting street photography you want to be most inconspicuous possible because, you know, guys from Seattle, not everybody living in safe places. Camera with lens cost usually approx. 5K bucks. And i don't want this screen hanging out on sideway attracting attention. Tilting screen is the only option for professional camera period

mzx, DPR staff doesn't need to be pro photographers with amazing portfolios. I don't know any photographer with an amazing portfolio that has time to try so many cameras and have such a broad view of what any camera on the market can offer.

But I do think that maybe they could spend more time talking to photographers in the industry to get some different perspectives and opinions, specially when talking about more professional cameras.

Their broad view is ridiculous and buying giudes are nonsense, that's why people constantly complained in the comments about it's quality and what DPR did? They just closed comments for buying guides. None of DPR stuff ever tried to finish big photo project and none of them know how such projects are made and the real kitchen. Their reviews are very good entertainment, but have nothing to do with reality mostly. The only thing DPR does really great is camera lab tests. Everything other is just entertaining photography-related texts to read.

No brand has made a rotating screen that doesn't hit the ports.